SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[The Twilight Mexican]

Alright, the reason I brought those three points up in my previous post is that the three authors bring up an excellent points that I feel can still be argued in the Remake.

Although the High Wind Scene obviously has not happened yet but the premise is there during the CH14 resolutions scenes that @Ryushikaze mention in a previous post. Especially how that the scene could be interpreted opposite of each other.

I see.

Sorry for not making it clearer. I also will admit that the post was intended to be a little bit on the passive aggressive side of things. .

 

[Enthralled]

Well I think, thanks to Looneymoon @looneymoon doing such a stellar job explaining how Aerith is framed as the secondary protagonist in a way others are not, we can move on to the honey-dipped point of it all:

If Aerith is important you should expect Square won't treat her relationships as fungible or disposable. Particularly lucrative iconic ones. Especially after the bulk of Cloud's character development coinciding with his failures to keep his distance from her.

And they only enhanced her importance with this temporal meta-commentary stuff. The climax made no pretense of equality among anyone.

Now... for the next topic... are her feet really that long? And is it me or does it look like Tifa never laces up her shoes? These are very important.

But I also don't recall closure on @Ryushikaze comparing the narrative device of Tifa's jealousy that "something more might be going on" to his fiance being envious of a platonic relationship. Just seems weird to say Cloud loves both but then say Tifa is just being hysterical when she senses that.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Thats an OG moment. Bring it up in the OG thread if you want to talk about it, but short version is i think you misunderstand my point if you think i was saying either one was hysterical.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

And is it me or does it look like Tifa never laces up her shoes?

My SO was literally just commenting on this. "How does she fight like that with her shoes not tightened up?"

Now I can't stop seeing it, and I'm pissed.

Thats an OG moment. Bring it up in the OG thread if you want to talk about it, but short version is i think you misunderstand my point if you think i was saying either one was hysterical.

I think the AC(C) "complicated feelings" thing was in there with it.

Just to put that matter to rest, though, I'll make a comment in one of the threads more appropriate to discussing the subject.

 

[Theozilla]

My SO was literally just commenting on this. "How does she fight like that with her shoes not tightened up?"

Now I can't stop seeing it, and I'm pissed.

Her shoes look like they are laced up to me?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

It's that it looks like they aren't. =P

 

[Graymouse]

The real question that no one has asked as of yet is, Why doesn't Tifa have her dolphin tails at the end of her hair. It is tied back sure, but no dolphin tails.

 

[Master Bates]

The real question that no one has asked as of yet is, Why doesn't Tifa have her dolphin tails at the end of her hair. It is tied back sure, but no dolphin tails.

Better yet: why not dolphin blow? I won't be able to dolphin blow Priscilla now.

 

[Graymouse]

Better yet: why not dolphin blow? I won't be able to dolphin blow Priscilla now.

You know what would have been funny, if Tifa would of have dolphin blow Scarlet of that cannon in the OG. I would have laughed my ass off. I mean slapping the shit out of her was funny though, I do admit.

 

[Strangelove]

i am finding out that the english game renamed ‘dolphin blow’ to ‘flurry’

it’s like you hate direct references to the source game

 

[eleamaya]

Yo! I'm back after a decade [laughs]
This should be named Love Square 'cause I would bring Zack from the dead here.
Anyway, gonna read what you've discussed since page 1. Just say hi, welcome back to me.

Before I take the discussion on the remake only, this is my interpretation of FFVII Love Story Summary (which I think would deliver well in the remake):

Two girls waited for their men to come home from war. Let’s say: Girl A, Girl B, Soldier #1, and Soldier #2. But one day—after 5 years, only one man who returns, it’s Soldier #2. What had happened?

Love triangle then sparks. He reminded Girl A of her man. Meanwhile, Girl B felt there’s something wrong about his memory. Girl A and Soldier #2 became close in weeks. She started to move on and he also developed a good feeling towards her. But shortly after, Girl A is murdered.

In the end, it’s all revealed. Soldier #2 got his memory back and the one he has loved for years is always Girl B. He remembered his friend, Soldier #1, died protecting him in war, thus left him trauma and lost memory. And Girl A, despite her tragic life, it’s shown she reunited in death with Soldier #1–the first guy she ever loved.

PS: I don’t deny Aerith eventually loved Cloud as himself. And Cloud, platonically or romantically, would always cherish Aerith for the short moment they had ever been together. But the end of the story, they reunite with the respective love they’ve held for years

 

[Edley]

i am finding out that the english game renamed ‘dolphin blow’ to ‘flurry’

it’s like you hate direct references to the source game

Dolphins have a blowhole. They do not flurry. The double entendre is childish and not neccesary to change the name. Oh well.

 

[Master Bates]

Will always be saddened by Dolphin Blow, but yooooooo... Climhazzard!!!!

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Do people in their world name their own limit breaks, do you think?
Kind of funny of think of all these teenagers developing limit breaks when they hit puberty and coming up with really cool, edgy names for them, which they later live to regret.

 

[Edley]

Do people in their world name their own limit breaks, do you think?
Kind of funny of think of all these teenagers developing limit breaks when they hit puberty and coming up with really cool, edgy names for them, which they later live to regret.

For 90s kids, your limit break is your cringiest AIM screen name.

....cloudstampede

 

[Cat on Mars]

For 90s kids, your limit break is your cringiest AIM screen name.

....cloudstampede

I approve of this. Mine was Curryhorserider (wtf I was thinking lol).

Especially since Square was OK with taking off various parts of their costumes for certain scenes (Tifa without gloves in that Seventh Heaven scene, Cloud during the hand massage scene) so they really could have just...Had him take off the giant metal pauldron...

Let alone sleeping in a thick sweater, suspenders, and poofy pants to begin with. Give Cloud pajamas, Square!

Everybody in FFVII's world sleeps either naked or fully clothed including footwear, no in-between. I guess.

Also, Zerith is a fantastic couple. Zack was so sweet to her in Crisis Core. Cloud has a lot to live up to for Clerith. (And I support Clerith too, so...)

It's been a while since I stated an unpopular opinion, so here I go:
I didn't like Zerith.
Yes, they were cute... at first. Later, their "cutesy" dynamic was grating (that "The sky frightens me" moment was like Anakin's "I hate sand" in my eyes) and felt shallow -they know each other for two damn years and Zack NEVER talks about his job (not even in passing, not even when he's crushed by the "kill your mentor" assignment); conversely, Aerith never talks to Zack about her relationship with Shin-Ra. At all.
If these aren't trusts issues, I don't know what they are.

You can roast me now.

Edit: I'm not discussing its relevane or canonicity, though; I simply found their scenes boring after a while.

 

[Edley]

I approve of this. Mine was Curryhorserider (wtf I was thinking lol).




Everybody in FFVII's world sleeps either naked or fully clothed including footwear, no in-between. I guess.


It's been a while since I stated an unpopular opinion, so here I go:
I didn't like Zerith.
Yes, they were cute... at first. Later, their "cutesy" dynamic was grating (that "The sky frightens me" moment was like Anakin's "I hate sand" in my eyes) and felt shallow -they know each other for two damn years and Zack NEVER talks about his job (not even in passing, not even when he's crushed by the "kill your mentor" assignment); conversely, Aerith never talks to Zack about her relationship with Shin-Ra. At all.
If these aren't trusts issues, I don't know what they are.

You can roast me now.

Edit: I'm not discussing its relevance or canonicity, though; I simply found their scenes boring after a while.

I wish they had a bit of back and forth. In my head Aerith would have no problem calling Zack on his playboy antics, while Zack would see through her choir girl facade in a heartbeat. They'd never be at a loss for words a la Cloud and Tifa.

Both Aerith and Zack can be fairly sassy so I enjoy the idea of their relationship more than the execution of it. The English dub of Aerith in Crisis Core does her no favors, either. Granted, if we get interactions of them in remake that may change.

 

[eleamaya]

Btw, this is my take of LTD in the FF7 Remake from Aerith's perspective:

I think FF7R didn’t portray Aerith in denial. English directly translated “The first guy I ever loved.” This line is the same as OG in JP when it was translated as “My first boyfriend.” But, the line that they weren't serious is removed. I would love to view Aerith is grieving his death, CC portrayed her sensing his death and it’s relevant to the scene kid Aerith sensed the death of Elmyra’s husband.

Now let’s see all CC references. Aerith’s line about one date is the same as OG in JP, but FF7R shows her gesture the same as Zack’s. She also asked if Cloud had SOLDIER’s friend or war buddies. The kids in Sector 5 play with wooden buster sword. Cloud even yelled at Aerith to quit acting like she knew him (and the flower quest was supposed to be named "Crisis Core" but the staff decided not to use it because they didn't wanna hint Zack yet). In the morning, she stopped Cloud with “I want to spend more time” in JP the same as her 23 wishes for Zack. Then the whole playground’s dialogue when she reminiscence him; how she used to sell flower there (with Zack in CC, doesn't exist in OG), how she saw the mako eyes (which Zack made her blush).

Cloud, you’re Zack in her eyes! But this isn't a bad take since she's always set to see her first love in Cloud even in OG, and FF7R delivers it well.

After all of CC references since the church meeting above, I would love to view she knew she had to stop grieving for Zack with “Gotta move forward, not back” line; not because he was ghosting her, the emotion is different. She probably didn’t get the closure she wanted from Cloud, but she’s ready to move on, even ready to let go of Cloud returning to Sector 7, stop chasing Zack’s shadow in him, might not see him again… before Tifa come to the scene. Then in the entire Wall Market chapter ‘til the optional dream sequence, she never views Cloud as Zack’s shadow anymore. Don’t get me wrong, still, she eventually had a good feeling towards Cloud as himself and embraced it all—the times she spent with Cloud just in 2 days are real.

With this, I’m not sure they would keep the same line in Gold Saucer date when she told Cloud, “You were different, I want to meet the real you” in OG. It has been delivered in the optional dream sequence before they rescued Aerith “Don't fall in love with me, even if you do, it’s not real/your imagination.” LTD seems to have been ended here. We didn't see any CxA moment after the trio met her in Shinra HQ. The ‘famous’ cell dialogue about ‘date & bodyguard’ that left Tifa jealous doesn’t exist, instead, we get many Aerith/Tifa moments started from in her room.

Then her line to “gotta move forward” is surprisingly contradicted with FF7R ending, when she stopped walked forward to grieve once again as Zack passing her by (her line “I hate the sky” in JP confirmed about him taken away by the sky, the metaphor of CC ending with Zack's soul soar to the sky/heaven).

Will we see how she’s trying to move on again into Cloud so the Gold Saucer’s date lines would be relevant again? That LTD would be revived again? Or will we see how her feeling is never changed that she presumably knows she would meet Zack again, either in life (the destiny crossroad) or in death (she knew her fate)? Remember, Aerith has sensed his last stand in highway. I think, her line of changing destiny including her awareness that it also can alter Zack’s fate as well. From her last line in Midgar outskirt, the Zack in her timeline is still dead but….

…we don’t know about it for now.
But we can't take Zack out of a picture from the LTD in the remake, unlike OG.

It's been a while since I stated an unpopular opinion, so here I go:
I didn't like Zerith.
Yes, they were cute... at first. Later, their "cutesy" dynamic was grating (that "The sky frightens me" moment was like Anakin's "I hate sand" in my eyes) and felt shallow -they know each other for two damn years and Zack NEVER talks about his job (not even in passing, not even when he's crushed by the "kill your mentor" assignment); conversely, Aerith never talks to Zack about her relationship with Shin-Ra. At all.
If these aren't trust issues, I don't know what they are.

You can roast me now.

Edit: I'm not discussing its relevance or canonicity, though; I simply found their scenes boring after a while.

Well, as long as it's just personal taste, I have no issue about it. You aren't as bad as those who clearly oppose and deny their relationship.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I was planning to answer this and completely forgot, sorry

I can see why the flower exchange can be taken both ways tbh. But I think my interpretation is quite different from the Clerith one, I would be very willing to listen to what is the CxA interpretation for this particular theme ( if you want ofc).

For the date part: while it's definitely a good build-up for the ship, I don't think it should be taken too literally. Cloud may act like he doesn't care, but deep down is always willing to help people when they need it. As for the date itself... did not Cloud and Tifa also went out to a 'date night' together on chapter 3? While not as straight forward as the CxA, it was still painted out as 'time alone' to hit the town and celebrate (edit to add that It doesn't necessarily need to be seen as a romantic date, but still a date nevertheless, just like the CxA one)

I didn't have anything to add really Yumelinh! On my game Cloud had a date with two other girls lined up, and two kisses from Jessie to his name, on my game I got the best scene from the bike ride and agreed to the date with Jessie, as well as getting the best Tifa result too! Yet Cloud didn't tell or refer anything of this to Aerith, he could have been more adamant or maybe honest?, about there being another girl or girls on the scene, there was not even a Not Interested! from Cloud to Aerith. So to me while the flower exchange didn't diminish or demean the things with Tifa or Jessie it didn't completely negate things with Aerith. It was more a this man has options moment wow now he has three things going on haha.

 

[Eerie]

Haha I think he didn’t understand what Jessie meant or how to answer her tbh, as the Ultimania said.

I thought it was kind of well done how the flower connects the two girls and Cloud. Literarily speaking, both girls get a pang of jealousy when they see that Cloud was coy by not telling them how he got the flower/to whom he gave it, but they both get over it and their friendship doesn’t suffer from it. I quite like this!

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Out from left field here: I sometimes got the impression Cloud simply forgets about things/people. He forgets the exchange with Jessie. He forgets who he gave the flower to. He hasn't just forgotten the distant past; his memory in the present is quite hit and miss as well. Then he'll see or hear something that jogs his memory, and suddenly it comes back to him. Nobody really notices how forgetful he is because up until he decides they need to rescue Aerith, he is being moved forwards by the choices and desires of others. They tell him where to go and what to do, and he does it. His decision to rescue Aerith is the first time he definitively shows a will of his own.

 

[Eerie]

Right I was wondering about that too. Yet he still tells Jessie she owes him a pizza so... maybe forget is not the right word, more like he probably doesn’t think it’s important, so he doesn’t talk about it?

 

[Cat on Mars]

I wish they had a bit of back and forth. In my head Aerith would have no problem calling Zack on his playboy antics, while Zack would see through her choir girl facade in a heartbeat.

Yeah, that would have been great. However, I'm not sure I agree with your comment about Zack. As much as I like him, I've always had the feeling that he was the kind of person that tends to see only what he want to see (be it out of naiveté or stubbornness) and he really chose not to think a lot about what Aerith was hiding from him, Sephiroth's increasingly erractic behaviour (specially in Nibelheim), what Shi-Ra was doing... at least until he became a guinea pig on the run. I think he's a good guy deep down but his morals are, ehhh... flexible, you know?

They'd never be at a loss for words a la Cloud and Tifa.

Maybe. But how much of the dialoge would be meaningful? CC showed us that they could talk, but it failed at making their talk interesting.

Both Aerith and Zack can be fairly sassy so I enjoy the idea of their relationship more than the execution of it.

*sigh* Don't I know it. I wanted to like them, I really did. The execution (pun intended) hanged, drawn and quartered my interest.

Btw, this is my take of LTD in the FF7 Remake from Aerith's perspective:

I think FF7R didn’t portray Aerith in denial or saying that they weren’t serious. Instead, English directly translated “The first guy I ever loved.” This line is the same as OG in JP when it was translated as “My first boyfriend.” I would love to view Aerith is grieving his death, CC portrayed her sensing his death and it’s relevant to the scene kid Aerith sensed the death of Elmyra’s husband.

Now let’s see all CC references. Aerith’s line about one date is the same as OG in JP, but FF7R shows her gesture the same as Zack’s. She also asked if Cloud had SOLDIER’s friend or war buddies. The kids in Sector 5 play with wooden buster sword. Cloud even yelled at Aerith to quit acting like she knew him (and the flower quest was supposed to be named "Crisis Core" but the staff decided not to use it because they didn't wanna hint Zack yet). In the morning, she stopped Cloud with “I want to spend more time” in JP the same as her 23 wishes for Zack. Then the whole playground’s dialogue when she reminiscence him.

Cloud, you’re Zack in her eyes! But this isn't a bad take since she's always set to see her first love in Cloud even in OG, and FF7R delivers it well.

After all of CC references since the church meeting above, I would love to view she knew she had to stop grieving for Zack with “Gotta move forward, not back” line; not because he was ghosting her, the emotion is different. She probably didn’t get the closure she wanted from Cloud, but she’s ready to move on, even ready to let go of Cloud returning to Sector 7, stop chasing Zack’s shadow in him, might not see him again… before Tifa come to the scene. Then in the entire Wall Market chapter ‘til the optional dream sequence, she never views Cloud as Zack’s shadow anymore. Don’t get me wrong, still, she eventually had a good feeling towards Cloud as himself and embraced it all—the times she spent with Cloud just in 2 days are real.

*snip*
Then her line to “gotta move forward” is surprisingly contradicted with FF7R ending, when she stopped walked forward to grieve once again as Zack passing her by (her line “I hate the sky” in JP confirmed it).

Will we see how she’s trying to move on again into Cloud so the Gold Saucer’s date lines would be relevant again? That LTD would be revived again? Or will we see how her feeling is never changed that she presumably knows she would meet Zack again, either in life (the destiny crossroad) or in death (she knew her fate)? Remember, Aerith has sensed his last stand in highway. I think, her line of changing destiny including her awareness that it also can alter Zack’s fate as well. From her last line in Midgar outskirt, the Zack in her timeline is still dead but….

…we don’t know about it for now.

Interesting take, I like it. I may think more about it later -although I don't really disagree with you.

, as long as it's just personal taste, I have no issue about it. You aren't as bad as those who clearly oppose and deny their relationship.

Wait, you were supposed to roast me damnit! You have to show me how superior your ship is! What's this acting like adults nonsense?
Nah, glad you can tolerate different opinions. It what makes debate fun!

Right I was wondering about that too. Yet he still tells Jessie she owes him a pizza so... maybe forget is not the right word, more like he probably doesn’t think it’s important, so he doesn’t talk about it?

I think it's something like that. If it isn't urgent or important, Cloud doesn't bother talking about it.
Edit: grammar

 

[Eerie]

Yeah I think it’s his inexperience talking there. He doesn’t know if it’s important and that he’s going to hurt people by not talking.

 

[Yumelinh]

I didn't have anything to add really Yumelinh! On my game Cloud had a date with two other girls lined up, and two kisses from Jessie to his name, on my game I got the best scene from the bike ride and agreed to the date with Jessie, as well as getting the best Tifa result too! Yet Cloud didn't tell or refer anything of this to Aerith, he could have been more adamant or maybe honest?, about there being another girl or girls on the scene, there was not even a Not Interested! from Cloud to Aerith. So to me while the flower exchange didn't diminish or demean the things with Tifa or Jessie it didn't completely negate things with Aerith. It was more a this man has options moment wow now he has three things going on haha.

I didn't mean it in a diminished or negative way (however, I can see how it could be interpreted that way, so sorry about that).

What I meant is that this time around, Aerith isn't the only one to get a 'date' with Cloud. As for the reason he didn't tell Aerith about his previous dates, it's more because he didn't really need to. It's not like he's in a relationship with any of them and, storywise, it wouldn't make sense either, right?

Furthermore, as I said in my previous post, the 'dates' situations don't necessarily need to be seen as romantic in nature, but much more about 'two people spending time together and getting closer', hence why I refer to it as more of a 'relationship build-up' than anything else. Aerith and Cloud's date situation also falls into this category since all they did was going around town solving problems and spending time together. To sum up, none of these dates are romantic per se (well, maybe Jessie date suggestion was actually ), but you can still see it as a good thing for your ship bc well.. to have a romantic relationship with someone, you need to get closer to them, after all.

As for the flower thing, I did say I can see why it can be used for both pairings. I just think my interpretation of this theme is prob different from the one Cleriths have, hence why I wanted to know their opinion over the matter ( but as I said, feel free to ignore it if you don't want to waste your time explaining things, it's fine really < edit: why does the emoji version of ': )' looks so threatening? It was supposed to be a happy note *sigh* )