SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Hellenic]

As I have said, I think Cloti moments will probably be cheapened or gutted, and the by-product of that is it restoring ambiguity. Restoring ambiguity, and assuming that scene of Cloud reaching out for Aeriths hand at the end is included, while I don't think it is necessarily romantic in the original, if Cloti moments are cheapened and ambiguity is restored, it could definitely be seen as romantic in the Re;trilogy, especially if Cloud's feelings for Aerith are included in the lifestream sequence. I think they would kind of have to be covered, since it will 100% have to confront those delusions Cloud was having.

If they wanted to cheapen or gut their moments then i don't see why they felt the need to add so much more for them this early on is the thing. They could've just kept Tifa in the background yet again for this part and feed the Cleriths fulltime, yet they instead fed Clotis more than ever, while actually gutting some Clerith content, hell they went as far as gave Tifa a kiss with Cloud, which is a huge move, be it optional or not.

As far as i'm considered, they went out of their way to clear up the ambiquity a whole ton with Rebirth especially, so i don't see any way for them to restore it anymore without it being complete nonsense and a fail at storytelling.

 

[GamerSkull]

If they wanted to cheapen or gut their moments then i don't see why they felt the need to add so much more for them this early on is the thing. They could've just kept Tifa in the background yet again for this part and feed the Cleriths fulltime, yet they instead fed Clotis more than ever, while actually gutting some Clerith content, hell they went as far as gave Tifa a kiss with Cloud, which is a huge move, be it optional or not.

As far as i'm considered, they went out of their way to clear up the ambiquity a whole ton with Rebirth especially, so i don't see any way for them to restore it anymore without it being complete nonsense and a fail at storytelling.

Heck, they even removed Cait’s compatibility fortune for Clerith.

 

[LNK]

It would be awful, it would be a travesty, but the Re;trilogy now has a pattern of having terrible endings, and with things escalating even more than they did in remake in regards to weird timeline/dimension stuff, I can't help but feel like it's going to happen again that we get another bad ending.

What is so terrible about the endings in the first two games? Imo, both were great. Especially Rebirth. Rebirth is now my 2nd favorite FF ending (15 is 1st)

Having Cloud/Aerith be together wouldn't necessarily be a bad ending. It wouldn't make sense from a narrative standpoint, nor would it tie into what comes after

Also, it's kind of weird for someone to WANT a bad ending to the trilogy. You also want her to be in the Lifestream sequence, while also thinking it would cheapen said sequence. Why would you want them to do that?

Sorry, but I'm confused by what you're saying

 

[thetriplerhyme]

it could definitely be seen as romantic in the Re;trilogy, especially if Cloud's feelings for Aerith are included in the lifestream sequence. I think they would kind of have to be covered, since it will 100% have to confront those delusions Cloud was having.

If this is possible this should be informed or included in any ultimania.. Lifestream sequence is the real cloud's self issues and his trauma w/c Aerith doesnt have any reference AT ALL ( she's just the cherry on top of all the trauma he encountered since childhood to present ) and again that's only Tifa.

I think that "CA ending" is a "Bad Ending," therefore, any "Bad Ending" will likely be a "CA Ending" isn't necessarily the way to look at it here.

Final Fantasy VII is not a multi-optional game with multiple ending.. all the options is Cloud's reaction to different characters and devs just wanted to show that it may have a different options but we're still the same ending..

like in Aerith's last date whether you go LA or HA she's still gonna say " there's different kind of like and liking.. " and " at least i know now how you and I stand" -- friends? i dont think there's anymore ambiguity there.

As I have said, I think Cloti moments will probably be cheapened or gutted, and the by-product of that is it restoring ambiguity.

- can you provide basis?? from Remake to Rebirth nothing has been cheapened or gutten in Cloti moments on opposite site it was highlighted. But the story is different now because people are aware of Tifa's connection to Cloud soo there's noo need to put her into too much dark unlike OG.

Heck, they even removed Cait’s compatibility fortune for Clerith.

- yes because that's stupid already instead they put the scene of C/A on that beach --> Look forward to the future me --> omnimous warning you know there's not gonna be a future AERITH Cloud's going to see.

the Cait’s compatibility fortune back in OG is to give 'hope' to players that ahhh there's future for this two.. only for SE to break it in players face by Aerith dying. This is an omnimous warning back in OG that its a obvious lie

It would be awful, it would be a travesty, but the Re;trilogy now has a pattern of having terrible endings, and with things escalating even more than they did in remake in regards to weird timeline/dimension stuff, I can't help but feel like it's going to happen again that we get another bad ending.

I dont get it what's wrong with ending or remake and rebirth? Although yeah it weird but Aerith accepted her death unlike sephiroth who is defying it.

Actually there's a theory I recently got from Max that's soo good. -->> Here you can see it

- Its a theory no one confirms it but its not soo bad - devs cannot give the same impact on Aerith death to players people knows it already so instead they gave the impact on 'hope that she can be saved.." only for devs to take it away.

 

[GamerSkull]

What is so terrible about the endings in the first two games? Imo, both were great. Especially Rebirth. Rebirth is now my 2nd favorite FF ending (15 is 1st)

Having Cloud/Aerith be together wouldn't necessarily be a bad ending. It wouldn't make sense from a narrative standpoint, nor would it tie into what comes after

Also, it's kind of weird for someone to WANT a bad ending to the trilogy. You also want her to be in the Lifestream sequence, while also thinking it would cheapen said sequence. Why would you want them to do that?

Sorry, but I'm confused by what you're saying

Tbh, I found them to be a bit much. I’m mostly lukewarm to them but I don’t outright hate them. I still think they were unecessary.

But I enjoyed the other 90% of the game to have an overall positive experience and I’d even go as far as to say I like the game in general.

But yeah, not a fan personally just cuz it’s a bit convoluted and it kinda takes away from the death scene. However, I can see why some may like it… some of my friends even do. And I respect that.

 

[abzy1200]

Additional note: I wish I can just do away with saying "non-optional" as if content in a narrative driven game was not meant to be seen.

Tell me about it, same thing here.

If they wanted to cheapen or gut their moments then i don't see why they felt the need to add so much more for them this early on is the thing. They could've just kept Tifa in the background yet again for this part and feed the Cleriths fulltime, yet they instead fed Clotis more than ever, while actually gutting some Clerith content, hell they went as far as gave Tifa a kiss with Cloud, which is a huge move, be it optional or not.

See, I feel like Tifa's importance to the story is being highlighted earlier because otherwise she would be in the backseat of these games for like 7-8 years, that's a lot of time for one of the games two heroines to start shining.

As far as i'm considered, they went out of their way to clear up the ambiquity a whole ton with Rebirth especially, so i don't see any way for them to restore it anymore without it being complete nonsense and a fail at storytelling.

I feel like some ambiguity was restored, and it has everything to do with Clouds reaction to Aeriths death. It always felt odd to me that Cloud had a more visceral reaction to Aerith dying than his reaction to Tifa "dying" during the nibelheim incident. Seeing as some stuff from fake Cloud carries over to the real Cloud (he still remembers how to fight, and he hasn't forgotten his bonds with other characters, he's not a COMPLETELY different person, I don't see why Aerith would be an exception) it would feel like, after all of Cleriths "non-optional" hand holding and the obvious parallels in Hollow and No Promises to Keep; "This time, I'll never let you go" and "Take my hand, and never let me go", and that Tifa's date definitely isn't the one that "happened" (because then Cloud would actually be a womaniser, fake cloud or not), I don't think Rebirth really did anything to erase ambiguity in this debate, but again, maybe that's just me.

What is so terrible about the endings in the first two games? Imo, both were great. Especially Rebirth. Rebirth is now my 2nd favorite FF ending (15 is 1st)

because it genuinely made me feel sick to my stomach seeing one of the final battles from the original shoehorned into Rebirth like that. Horrendous.

Having Cloud/Aerith be together wouldn't necessarily be a bad ending

It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever, and it leaves Tifa and Zack as loose ends in a series the devs are probably already sick of continuing. I dont want this to happen, that's why I'm so worried over it.

Again, sorry for dooming, I just can't help myself

 

[GamerSkull]

Tell me about it, same thing here.

See, I feel like Tifa's importance to the story is being highlighted earlier because otherwise she would be in the backseat of these games for like 7-8 years, that's a lot of time for one of the games two heroines to start shining.

I feel like some ambiguity was restored, and it has everything to do with Clouds reaction to Aeriths death. It always felt odd to me that Cloud had a more visceral reaction to Aerith dying than his reaction to Tifa "dying" during the nibelheim incident. Seeing as some stuff from fake Cloud carries over to the real Cloud (he still remembers how to fight, and he hasn't forgotten his bonds with other characters, he's not a COMPLETELY different person, I don't see why Aerith would be an exception) it would feel like, after all of Cleriths "non-optional" hand holding and the obvious parallels in Hollow and No Promises to Keep; "This time, I'll never let you go" and "Take my hand, and never let me go", and that Tifa's date definitely isn't the one that "happened" (because then Cloud would actually be a womaniser, fake cloud or not), I don't think Rebirth really did anything to erase ambiguity in this debate, but again, maybe that's just me.

because it genuinely made me feel sick to my stomach seeing one of the final battles from the original shoehorned into Rebirth like that. Horrendous.

It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever, and it leaves Tifa and Zack as loose ends in a series the devs are probably already sick of continuing. I dont want this to happen, that's why I'm so worried over it.

Again, sorry for dooming, I just can't help myself

You could be right about the dooming, yeah.

But I still believe that if the devs fuck up, they’ll fuck up trying to pay off what’s been set up. They won’t just randomly switch gears and have different payoffs. They’ll do bad with what they’re currently trying to do.

Personally, I have no problem with Bizarro Sephiroth showing up, it’s everything else that I found to be an issue.

Like I said earlier, I think if the ending is bad… it’s not gonna have anything to do with the LTD. It’ll just be bad… but with Cloti endgame because that’s how the original ended.

 

[abzy1200]

Like I said earlier, I think if the ending is bad… it’s not gonna have anything to do with the LTD. It’ll just be bad… but with Cloti endgame because that’s how the original ended.

Let's hope for that atleast.

Also, let me say thank you to everyone here, this is a much more friendly space than other places I've had these discussions, thank you all for making me feel welcome here.

 

[cgnVirtue]

As I have said, I think Cloti moments will probably be cheapened or gutted, and the by-product of that is it restoring ambiguity. Restoring ambiguity, and assuming that scene of Cloud reaching out for Aeriths hand at the end is included, while I don't think it is necessarily romantic in the original, if Cloti moments are cheapened and ambiguity is restored, it could definitely be seen as romantic in the Re;trilogy, especially if Cloud's feelings for Aerith are included in the lifestream sequence. I think they would kind of have to be covered, since it will 100% have to confront those delusions Cloud was having.

But I don't see why it would have to, Cloud is 100% going to meet Aerith and Zack again during the ending of the third game, and they're inevitably going to have some sort of "Don't get hung up on us" included in their goodbye to him or something. It would feel odd if Aerith and Zack just peaced out without saying a single word to him, especially not after they were fighting alongside him, which, in itself could be seen by Cloud as "They don't hate me for being inadequate, they don't hate me for letting them die, I can forgive myself"

Or maybe because I happen to be a naturally pessimistic person who reads too much into stuff, so sorry if this feels a bit like dooming/baseless worrying.

I can understand your pessimism. I’ve gotten burned by so many games before, and Square Enix isn’t an exception when it comes to controversial or polarizing decisions. Maybe I’m being naive, but I genuine don’t believe that FFVII is going to drop the ball, at least not as hard as to literally negate the plot seeds they’ve planted. So much work is going into this trilogy and it’s essentially Nomura, Kitase, and Nojima’s (am I missing anyone?) magnum opus. If they’re going to nail anything in their career, it has to be this. FFVII may mean a lot to us as fans, but these are characters that literally represent a part of them and they must love them way more than any fan ever could.
Again, I get it. I got burned so hard by Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth’s ending that I literally dropped the franchise completely lmao. But with how much love and care is being put into this ReTrilogy, I would be surprised if they mess it up that bad. As far as I know you don’t see the kind of meticulous care they’re putting into the ReTrilogy in anything right now, at least in the West.
Besides, Nojima’s gotten harrassed and he’s STILL talking about his writing and what he intended despite it all. If he or anyone else was scared and wanted to do ambiguity, that’s what we would have gotten. But Tifa got the kiss in Rebirth. And they’re not stopping there.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

I feel like some ambiguity was restored, and it has everything to do with Clouds reaction to Aeriths death. It always felt odd to me that Cloud had a more visceral reaction to Aerith dying than his reaction to Tifa "dying" during the nibelheim incident. Seeing as some stuff from fake Cloud carries over to the real Cloud (he still remembers how to fight, and he hasn't forgotten his bonds with other characters, he's not a COMPLETELY different person, I don't see why Aerith would be an exception)

as i said on my previous post Aerith's is like the cherry on top of all the trauma he encountered since Nibelheim incident -- rooting from since he is a child, Zack's death.. DENIAL

This is supposed to be his stronger self and until then he's still helpless to protect his friends this traumatize him soo bad it distorted reality. In OG after redeeming himself he's able to make a resolution.

" I’m…Cloud. The master of my own illusionary world. But I can’t remain trapped in an illusion any more. I’m going to live my life without pretending."

Its an illusion he still created because he refuses to see death of Zack and Aerith.

 

[abzy1200]

as i said on my previous post Aerith's is like the cherry on top of all the trauma he encountered since Nibelheim incident -- rooting from since he is a child, Zack's death.. DENIAL

This is supposed to be his stronger self and until then he's still helpless to protect his friends this traumatize him soo bad it distorted reality. In OG after redeeming himself he's able to make a resolution.

" I’m…Cloud. The master of my own illusionary world. But I can’t remain trapped in an illusion any more. I’m going to live my life without pretending."

Its an illusion he still created because he refuses to see death of Zack and Aerith.

Listen, I understand what you're saying, and I agree aswell, Cloud being upset like that is a culmination of Sephiroths constant torturing. But it just feels so odd that Cloud saw supposedly the love of his life dead and all he could conjure was caressing her face and moving her out of the way. It just never felt right to me, and while the argument could be made that it gave Cloud the strength to best Sephiroth, you also have to take into account that Sephiroth also just burned down his hometown, mother included, and Cloud feels betrayed by the person he saw as a role model, there was more to his rage than just Tifa.

 

[KindOfBlue]

Not only that it would just feel fucking disgusting to watch Tifa take care of Danzel and Marelene knowing Cloud is in love with another woman the whole time.

Unfortunately there are people who have actually believed this to be the story of AC for nearly two decades now, and it doesn’t help that AC isn’t exactly the best display of quality storytelling

Or maybe because I happen to be a naturally pessimistic person who reads too much into stuff, so sorry if this feels a bit like dooming/baseless worrying.

A “Clerith” ending would require Cloud picking Tifa over Aerith, which so far has never been an option even if you completely ignore Tifa.

Which reminds me, I remember it being argued that Cloud’s feelings for Tifa were “fleeting” based on a translation of an Ultimania or something. Hard to imagine the word “fleeting” being appropriate to describe Cloud crushing on Tifa for a significant portion of his childhood, but okay I guess?

 

[GamerSkull]

Listen, I understand what you're saying, and I agree aswell, Cloud being upset like that is a culmination of Sephiroths constant torturing. But it just feels so odd that Cloud saw supposedly the love of his life dead and all he could conjure was caressing her face and moving her out of the way. It just never felt right to me, and while the argument could be made that it gave Cloud the strength to best Sephiroth, you also have to take into account that Sephiroth also just burned down his hometown, mother included, and Cloud feels betrayed by the person he saw as a role model, there was more to his rage than just Tifa.

Are you referring to the Nibelheim reactor? Because he literally stabbed Sephiroth in the back with a big sword. Then his first priority after that was checking on Tifa. I don’t really see what else he was supposed to do. He literally was checking on her and then, had to stop because Sephiroth walked in.

And then his emotions were so great, he tanked Sephiroth stabbing him and threw him into the reactor.

I actually don’t find anything wrong with this scene. What else did you want him to do with Tifa there?

He may have done more to help Tifa had Sephiroth not walked into the room.

 

[abzy1200]

Unfortunately there are people who have actually believed this to be the story of AC for nearly two decades now, and it doesn’t help that AC isn’t exactly the best display of quality storytelling

Still can't believe people would rather characterize Cloud as that kind of abusive villain than admit Cloud and Tifa get their happily ever after together.

A “Clerith” ending would require Cloud picking Tifa over Aerith, which so far has never been an option even if you completely ignore Tifa.

Exactly, here's hoping the Re;trilogy doesn't literally lose the plot.

What else did you want him to do with Tifa there

Nothing really, I can't and won't deny that Cloud seeing Tifa hurt like that fueled that rage he was already feeling. But, like I said, it just felt odd to me. But now that I really think about it, yeah, him being "more upset" at Aeriths death isn't really indicative of much since there's a whole backlog of psychological damage behind it that wasn't there for Tifa. I feel better now, thanks.

 

[GamerSkull]

Still can't believe people would rather characterize Cloud as that kind of abusive villain than admit Cloud and Tifa get their happily ever after together.

Exactly, here's hoping the Re;trilogy doesn't literally lose the plot.

Nothing really, I can't and won't deny that Cloud seeing Tifa hurt like that fueled that rage he was already feeling. But, like I said, it just felt odd to me. But now that I really think about it, yeah, him being "more upset" at Aeriths death isn't really indicative of much since there's a whole backlog of psychological damage behind it that wasn't there for Tifa. I feel better now, thanks.

I mean, Aerith was pretty special to him too, romantic or otherwise. That, and Jenova being at play does make it believable to me.

I don’t think it’s a case of him “being more upset” with Aerith. It’s just another situation with different factors at play.

But yes, Cloud has a lot of psychological issues.

 

[LNK]

Tbh, I found them to be a bit much. I’m mostly lukewarm to them but I don’t outright hate them. I still think they were unecessary.

To me, they're a bit much as well. I really wish we wouldn't be fighting Sephiroth every single time. For Rebirth, I'd have preferred a battle with Cloud, but I still like them for what they are. Especially Rebirth. Having Cloud acting like nothing is different while everyone else is visibly heartbroken is great. I love it.

But I enjoyed the other 90% of the game to have an overall positive experience and I’d even go as far as to say I like the game in general. But yeah, not a fan personally just cuz it’s a bit convoluted and it kinda takes away from the death scene. However, I can see why some may like it… some of my friends even do. And I respect that.

I'm on the fence about it being convoluted. Sure it is a little confusing, but it's obviously intentional for a reason, that we'll more than likely see in the third game. But, it's definitely not confusing in a way that you can't see what's going on for the most part. If we don't get the full death sequence in the 3rd game, then I will definitely agree with you though. There needs to be that payoff

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Listen, I understand what you're saying, and I agree aswell, Cloud being upset like that is a culmination of Sephiroths constant torturing. But it just feels so odd that Cloud saw supposedly the love of his life dead and all he could conjure was caressing her face and moving her out of the way. It just never felt right to me, and while the argument could be made that it gave Cloud the strength to best Sephiroth, you also have to take into account that Sephiroth also just burned down his hometown, mother included, and Cloud feels betrayed by the person he saw as a role model, there was more to his rage than just Tifa.

- It was also in ultimania that seeing town burn , mothers death and includes Tifa getting hurt ( i guess in rebirth we know he thought she died ) brings out an enoumous strength in him ( I just dont have the copy right now) -- this is also same in ACC when Sephiroth threatens his family again ( with Tifa included)

"Tell me what you cherished most.. give me the pleasure of taking it away"
Sephiroth now knew never to threaten his family ( included Tifa w/c because this is where Cloud's strength is.. his family and friends

 

[GamerSkull]

To me, they're a bit much as well. I really wish we wouldn't be fighting Sephiroth every single time. For Rebirth, I'd have preferred a battle with Cloud, but I still like them for what they are. Especially Rebirth. Having Cloud acting like nothing is different while everyone else is visibly heartbroken is great. I love it.

I'm on the fence about it being convoluted. Sure it is a little confusing, but it's obviously intentional for a reason, that we'll more than likely see in the third game. But, it's definitely not confusing in a way that you can't see what's going on for the most part. If we don't get the full death sequence in the 3rd game, then I will definitely agree with you though. There needs to be that payoff

I like the concept of this “denial” by Cloud. We’ll see where it goes.

 

[GamerSkull]

Unfortunately there are people who have actually believed this to be the story of AC for nearly two decades now, and it doesn’t help that AC isn’t exactly the best display of quality storytelling

One fundamental issue I take is that FF7 is about loss, moving on but cherishing the time you spent with those you loved. And that they will always exist so long as you remember them.

So, for there to be an interpretation where Cloud never moves on and is incapable of doing so…. Well, it just doesn’t line up with the central idea of FF7 to begin with.

It doubly worse that it’s almost painted as a good thing by these fans.

Does that make sense?

 

[thetriplerhyme]

I mean, Aerith was pretty special to him too, romantic or otherwise. That, and Jenova being at play does make it believable to me.

btw I'm not sure if matters so much but Cloud called Aerith Nakama even back in Remake but in rebirth he called Jessie - Tomodachi


I'm not an expert in japanese languange but someone told me that a Nakama is like a colleague or comrade ( part of the team ) nothing personal but tomdachi is like a close friend.

Soo cloud is not treating Aerith like a close friend?? Just comrade?? I'm not downgrading or anything negative but just curious.

 

[abzy1200]

- can you provide basis?? from Remake to Rebirth nothing has been cheapened or gutten in Cloti moments on opposite site it was highlighted. But the story is different now because people are aware of Tifa's connection to Cloud soo there's noo need to put her into too much dark unlike OG.

I think they will because sales for this game obviously weren't as high as they had hoped, they're keeping relatively quiet on it, being even more blatant than they already were in the original would only drive away fans (Cleriths). Plus, I don't feel like Nomura would jump at the chance to remove any and all interpretations from his works, even if they are wrong, he's just like that. He has already in the past been a sort of enemy to Cloti (Meddling in what Nojima wanted portrayed in kingdom hearts, and that infamous "I don't have a clue" quote from him)

Does that make sense?

If only Advent Children was a slightly better film, one can only wish it had like 5 minutes of extra runtime to erase the anti-Cloti view it loves to give to people who aren't in the know.

 

[GamerSkull]

btw I'm not sure if matters so much but Cloud called Aerith Nakama even back in Remake but in rebirth he called Jessie - Tomodachi


I'm not an expert in japanese languange but someone told me that a Nakama is like a colleague or comrade ( part of the team ) nothing personal but tomdachi is like a close friend.

Soo cloud is not treating Aerith like a close friend?? Just comrade?? I'm not downgrading or anything negative but just curious.

I’m pretty sure Nakama is a huge friendship thing too.

Take One Piece for example, Luffy makes a lot of nakama, including his crew. You’d be hard-pressed to argue he only sees these people as colleagues.

I think Nakama is an extra special form of friendship as far as I know. I’m not an expert.

 

[GamerSkull]

I think they will because sales for this game obviously weren't as high as they had hoped, they're keeping relatively quiet on it, being even more blatant than they already were in the original would only drive away fans (Cleriths). Plus, I don't feel like Nomura would jump at the chance to remove any and all interpretations from his works, even if they are wrong, he's just like that. He has already in the past been a sort of enemy to Cloti (Meddling in what Nojima wanted portrayed in kingdom hearts, and that infamous "I don't have a clue" quote from him)

If only Advent Children was a slightly better film, one can only wish it had like 5 minutes of extra runtime to erase the anti-Cloti view it loves to give to people who aren't in the know.

Rebirth actually sold pretty well. Just not as well as Remake. But… Remake also came out during lockdown when more people were buying games in general.

 

[Hellenic]

See, I feel like Tifa's importance to the story is being highlighted earlier because otherwise she would be in the backseat of these games for like 7-8 years, that's a lot of time for one of the games two heroines to start shining.

That could be one reason sure, but more emphasis on Tifa already is clearly there so we can get a more natural build up towards the Lifestream event later on.

I feel like some ambiguity was restored, and it has everything to do with Clouds reaction to Aeriths death. It always felt odd to me that Cloud had a more visceral reaction to Aerith dying than his reaction to Tifa "dying" during the nibelheim incident. Seeing as some stuff from fake Cloud carries over to the real Cloud (he still remembers how to fight, and he hasn't forgotten his bonds with other characters, he's not a COMPLETELY different person, I don't see why Aerith would be an exception) it would feel like, after all of Cleriths "non-optional" hand holding and the obvious parallels in Hollow and No Promises to Keep; "This time, I'll never let you go" and "Take my hand, and never let me go", and that Tifa's date definitely isn't the one that "happened" (because then Cloud would actually be a womaniser, fake cloud or not), I don't think Rebirth really did anything to erase ambiguity in this debate, but again, maybe that's just me.

It all just comes down to the simple fact that they needed Aeriths death to hit hard at the player back then, so they made more of a spectacle of her death than Tifas "death", which we already knew that Tifa wasn't really dead to begin with. Also i'd argue Cloud did have a strong reaction to Tifa too, as he was filled with rage and went and killed Sephi.

And yes, Cloud is not literally Zack, i never implied as much. Everything he experiences in his mixed up SOLDIER persona carry over with him.

If you wanna use non-optional here then Cloud and Tifa also had a non-optional almost kiss too in Gongaga, so not sure what your point there is. That's a way stronger implication of anything than someone holding someone's hand for relief. Also we got confirmation just recently that No Promises to Keep is not in fact only about Cloud, but about all the people Aerith loves, and as far as i know, Hollow was never really confirmed to be about Aerith specifically either. Nonetheless the songs aren't some kinda stronger confirmation over what the games itself show and tell us.

All the dates are equally canon also. One is not above the rest at all and they are there to show you how Cloud would interact with each of them in a hypothetical situation at that point in the game.

 

[LNK]

because it genuinely made me feel sick to my stomach seeing one of the final battles from the original shoehorned into Rebirth like that. Horrendous

That's too bad, and I'm sorry you feel that way. I love it though. It lets me know that the final battle of the trilogy will 100 percent be something bigger than what we got in the OG.

It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever, and it leaves Tifa and Zack as loose ends in a series the devs are probably already sick of continuing. I dont want this to happen, that's why I'm so worried over it.

You were just saying you want them to do this though haha. Your doom and gloom is def confusing