SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

thetriplerhyme

thetriplerhyme

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Ultimania confirms that GS dates are not part of the main story line ( of course its not then Cloti would have confirm feelings in GS dates and not HW ) but based on players choices with scenarios created for them and course Cloud's interactions which means C/A will never got a kiss because their relationship is not like that at all.
 
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Stiggie

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Yoru said:
REMINDER : The only part of Ultimania to be taken as face value are the last pages with the developpers itw.

All the rest is written by "Game testers", because Ultimania are first and foremost game guides.

Wich means : You're watching at personal interpretation for the most part. That's why the ending recap is super vague and doesn't tell us shit. Because the dude is like us. Can only analyze images and try to put it in order.

Best example being the dude thinking real hard if Aerith is dead or alive like "yeah big mistery, have to wait for part 3" when the devs itw in the same book is kinda straightforward "yup, she's dead"



In english he's telling Dyne to accept Shinra's deal to help Marlene have a better life. Except... she's not born yet.. Scene takes place 6 years ago and Marlene is 4 in our present. So it's impossible.

Yes it's impossible... because Barret in other versions is telling Dyne he'll accept the deal because he wants a better life for his wife Myrna. What this version tell us ? That Barret acted this way for TOTALLY SELFISH reasons. It was for him alone he wanted this deal. Kinda a big deal when this deal will actually destroy the life and family of your best friend who didn't want a part of it to begin with.
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I was wondering about this, heard him talk about his daughter and thought "wait, wtf is the timeline here?" Glad I'm not crazy
 
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Stiggie

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cgnVirtue said:
This is exactly how I feel too, and I didn’t realize how bad it was until I became invested. I knew of it, but… now I see that I had no idea what it was like. I didn’t care much before, probably due to the way it was discussed. Personally I made up my mind of who I liked. But when I realized who Cloud himself unambiguously chose, everything changed.

At first it was like “I like Tifa, she seems nice.” “Oh it seems like Cloud likes Tifa. That’s cute.” Then in Rebirth “Wait does Tifa like Cloud too?” “WAIT. THEY REALLY LIKE EACH OTHER?”
“CLOUD AND TIFA?! GONGAGA?!”
And the moment I became invested I inherited all of the history of CloTi and I opened Pandora’s box.

I would say it’s insane to me that anybody can watch events play out in Rebirth and still think that CloTi isn’t canon, but there are real people, living right now, that unironically and wholeheartedly believe that the earth is flat. Most self-care thing I did was make an account here lmao.

Anyways I feel strangely vindicated by the Ultimanias because for so long I also felt gaslit into thinking I was reading the narrative the wrong way. It didn’t help that I wasn’t a part of the FF7 discussion until after Rebirth, so it was completely possible that I just didn’t see that Cloud was actually in love with Aerith the whole time because Tifa sucks and is actually worse than Sephiroth because she was mean when she was 8. But turns out I’m not an illiterate idiot and I had the correct reading this whole time. Feels nice. :monster:
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I still can't imagine how weird it must be to know about the LTD, assume that both girls are equally love interrests...and then play the game.

Must be such a "wtf is going on, there is literally only one love interrest here, wtf am i missing?" moment
 
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c.lupara

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So from the first info:
we can even not consider appointments as part of the story.

Having said that, for LTD, it remains: moment between CT in gongaga with maximum sexual tension and CA's fake date in the dream which incidentally is not even with the Aerith of the game we play.


Ok practically nothing changes xD
 
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c.lupara

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This ultimania confirmed what I feared: the magical trio doesn't have the balls, the courage or the will to tell 'fans' that one thing is canon and the other isn't.
This fake respectability and wanting to make everyone happy has started to get boring.
This is a tutorial on how to make forgettable something that could have been magnificent and more complete than the OG.
If this vision is confirmed in part 3 without a precise and clear position, it will make the entire remake project a huge wasted opportunity.
(the additions of the multiverse it is a huge wasted opportunity)
 
Eerie

Eerie

Fire and Blood
thetriplerhyme said:
Ultimania confirms that GS dates are not part of the main story line ( of course its not then Cloti would not have confirm feelings in GS dates and not HW ) but based on players choices with scenarios created for them and course Cloud's interactions which means C/A will never got a kiss because their relationship is not like that at all.
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I will say this but it’s the Lifestream scene where Cloud and Tifa realise their feelings for each other. It’s a huge love confession and I think they’re going to point at that in p3 because so many players miss that.
 
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frosty

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Side note, I know everyone is so excited about the Ultimania, but is this the same Ben Sabin who does the translations for Remake and Rebirth?

He did a long lecture about how game companies should explicitly embrace sex scenes and not cop out with fade to black? Somehow that makes me laugh a lot thinking the translator of the games might somehow also subject Nojima/Nomura to a big powerpoint deck on why under the Highwind needs to be explicit for a good half an hour. I'm genuinely laughing about how passionate this dude is.

Must be such a "wtf is going on, there is literally only one love interrest here" moment
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I'm watching a few streamers that are going in first time blind, and they've heard about the epic love triangle and cos their chat constantly harasses them and comments are along the lines of:

"I thought at this point of the game they'd push the love triangle more but it seems more of just Tifa" - this is from a player called Welonz who just left Corel
"You can't tell me he doesn't love her" - About Tifa in Gongaga from a player called Kastaclysm
"He keeps looking at her lips!" - About Tifa in Gongaga too, from a player called Julia'sTv

The men who are new and are playing the game seem pretty...awful about the LTD so far.
"She's like a home wrecker" - This is Supertf about Aerith
"Tifa come get yo man from Aerith - she making the moves on your man" - This was someone watching the dream date in I'm dontai's stream

It's kind of a weird, out of body experience to me to think the love triangle has been surviving as long as it has, and that I see as CT/CA as being equal in terms of story, screentime and fanservice when new players have the above impressions
 
Hix

Hix

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thetriplerhyme said:
Ultimania confirms that GS dates are not part of the main story line ( of course its not then Cloti would not have confirm feelings in GS dates and not HW ) but based on players choices with scenarios created for them and course Cloud's interactions which means C/A will never got a kiss because their relationship is not like that at all.
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So certainly it comes as no surprise to learn it's a bit "all or nothing" with the Gold Saucer dates, which I think anyone arguing in good faith has had to concede from the beginning.

The way it's being described here is as a hypothetical scenario in which Cloud and this other individual are on this date, this is how Cloud would react. In fact, this is exactly what we've been saying here and would seem to lean heavier toward "all" rather than "nothing"

One can extrapolate plenty, then, from the dates without the devs having to worry about dealing with the consequences of them thereafter. For instance, put Cloud and Tifa in the gondola and Cloud is going to kiss her. The devs have expressly made this clear that in the event of an encounter such as this, mutual feelings would be shared between the two - normally an event we would have to wait until "under the Highwind" for.

Further, put Cloud and Aerith in the gondola and Aerith may well express feelings for Cloud. The difference here is he won't openly reciprocate these feelings. He will act cold at the beginning, refusing to sit next to her not once but twice. He will struggle with his sprouting memories of Zack - which will almost certainly preclude him ever being able to reciprocate any such feelings as this continues to develop. He will allow her to rest her head on his shoulder and quietly hold her hand but just until the ride is over, as if to say "I know you don't feel the same, but just let me have this moment."

If the devs have deigned to show us two expressly romantic encounters, then one is decidedly mutual and the other much more one-sided.

But here's the rub: they did not need to do this. There was no requirement for the two GS dates to be so blatantly contrasted in this scenario. If the events of the dates play outside the canon events of the story, and are more a "what if", then there was little impetus not to give an equally romantic moment to both, if not a kiss then mutual expressions that are on that level. They did not do this because Cloud would not do this in this situation.

So you see, it changes very little after all and, if anything, rubber stamps that Cloud's feelings for Tifa differ vastly from those for Aerith, as we've been told many times in the past. Further, we can extrapolate for the future too. We get the mutual exchange of feelings in the form of a kiss here, but it almost certainly will be much more passionate in the future after all the events of the Lifestream/Mideel. What I'm saying is: if Cloud does it here, all the moreso he's going to do it later.

On the other hand, Cloud fails to fully reciprocate Aerith's feelings here and, if such feelings ever should present themselves in a normal part of the game, all the moreso would he be unable or unwilling to reciprocate in the future after awakening to his full memories.
 
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Stiggie

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frosty said:
Side note, I know everyone is so excited about the Ultimania, but is this the same Ben Sabin who does the translations for Remake and Rebirth?

He did a long lecture about how game companies should explicitly embrace sex scenes and not cop out with fade to black? Somehow that makes me laugh a lot thinking the translator of the games might somehow also subject Nojima/Nomura to a big powerpoint deck on why under the Highwind needs to be explicit for a good half an hour. I'm genuinely laughing about how passionate this dude is.


I'm watching a few streamers that are going in first time blind, and they've heard about the epic love triangle and cos their chat constantly harasses them and comments are along the lines of:

"I thought at this point of the game they'd push the love triangle more but it seems more of just Tifa" - this is from a player called Welonz who just left Corel
"You can't tell me he doesn't love her" - About Tifa in Gongaga from a player called Kastaclysm
"He keeps looking at her lips!" - About Tifa in Gongaga too, from a player called Julia'sTv

The men who are new and are playing the game seem pretty...awful about the LTD so far.
"She's like a home wrecker" - This is Supertf about Aerith
"Tifa come get yo man from Aerith - she making the moves on your man" - This was someone watching the dream date in I'm dontai's stream

It's kind of a weird, out of body experience to me to think the love triangle has been surviving as long as it has, and that I see as CT/CA as being equal in terms of story, screentime and fanservice when new players have the above impressions
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Heej welonz, I am actually listening to her streams during work, and she in fact JUST left corel about 5 min ago for me :P


I was getting the feeling she was leaning strongly towards tifa
 
Sacky

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Hix said:
So certainly it comes as no surprise to learn it's a bit "all or nothing" with the Gold Saucer dates, which I think anyone arguing in good faith has had to concede from the beginning.

The way it's being described here is as a hypothetical scenario in which Cloud and this other individual are on this date, this is how Cloud would react. In fact, this is exactly what we've been saying here and would seem to lean heavier toward "all" rather than "nothing"

One can extrapolate plenty, then, from the dates without the devs having to worry about dealing with the consequences of them thereafter. For instance, put Cloud and Tifa in the gondola and Cloud is going to kiss her. The devs have expressly made this clear that in the event of an encounter such as this, mutual feelings would be shared between the two - normally an event we would have to wait until "under the Highwind" for.

Further, put Cloud and Aerith in the gondola and Aerith may well express feelings for Cloud. The difference here is he won't openly reciprocate these feelings. He will act cold at the beginning, refusing to sit next to her not once but twice. He will struggle with his sprouting memories of Zack - which will almost certainly preclude him ever being able to reciprocate any such feelings as this continues to develop. He will allow her to rest her head on his shoulder and quietly hold her hand but just until the ride is over, as if to say "I know you don't feel the same, but just let me have this moment."

If the devs have deigned to show us two expressly romantic encounters, then one is decidedly mutual and the other much more one-sided.

But here's the rub: they did not need to do this. There was no requirement for the two GS dates to be so blatantly contrasted in this scenario. If the events of the dates play outside the canon events of the story, and are more a "what if", then there was little impetus not to give an equally romantic moment to both, if not a kiss then mutual expressions that are on that level. They did not do this because Cloud would not do this in this situation.

So you see, it changes very little after all and, if anything, rubber stamps that Cloud's feelings for Tifa differ vastly from those for Aerith, as we've been told many times in the past. Further, we can extrapolate for the future too. We get the mutual exchange of feelings in the form of a kiss here, but it almost certainly will be much more passionate in the future after all the events of the Lifestream/Mideel. What I'm saying is: if Cloud does it here, all the moreso he's going to do it later.

On the other hand, Cloud fails to fully reciprocate Aerith's feelings here and, if such feelings ever should present themselves in a normal part of the game, all the moreso would he be unable or unwilling to reciprocate in the future after awakening to his full memories.
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It was over for me after seeing that Gongaga sequence cause there's no comparison with Cloud and any other character for how intimate and personal and vulnerable that scene is. In the main story aswell. With a FF16 almost kiss.
 
thetriplerhyme

thetriplerhyme

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btw Nomura is a cad you know how he is ~ Another ultimania facts

He confirmes that people wanted to see Aerith avoid her fate hence it was given to them but added Cloud's state of mind after ~ can you read between the lines
 
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LunarTarotGirl

LunarTarotGirl

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Lunarae
frosty said:
Side note, I know everyone is so excited about the Ultimania, but is this the same Ben Sabin who does the translations for Remake and Rebirth?

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I don't think it's the same guy. I think they have different credits as well on what they worked on. Also you can see Ben Sabin here. 13:23


But that other Ben Sabin is interesting.
Very passionate lol.

Ryushikaze said:
Disgaea? Or is that not the most popular any more?
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The Trails series. Specifically Kiseki and I think Zero and Ao were called out for their localization timeline being slow as well as general flack for changes and quality. I think they had to partner up with fan translators because the company is so tiny.

But Disagea definitely gets flack too.

My friend left the distribution office recently I think after COVID (which was from my understanding tied to their localization office or maybe just the same office) but during that time it was a bit of a nightmare with QA and distribution etc. Basically every time QA said they needed to make a change it needed approval of course, but it's a tiny company so it was a slow process. And translator work for it was brutal, pretty nonstop. Also because of COVID it was very short staffed.

Told me how much BS the translators went through and how bad the pay and hours are while the general public has no idea. Also I have friends in the anime industry one who then worked with ANN at one point and with conventions and anime company promotions or something...another who works in I think production, knows many EN VAs and stuff and about dubbing.

Basically I hear them talk about their fields and the sheer amount of hard work that goes into these media to get created or promoted only for staff to sometimes get flamed. For people to act like it's trash or the creators don't care and for misinformation to be spread about it is a bit sad to me. Criticism is fine but people on social media especially can take it too far.

Edit: Elaborated and added a quote I missed.
 
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Yoru

Yoru

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frosty said:
He did a long lecture about how game companies should explicitly embrace sex scenes and not cop out with fade to black? Somehow that makes me laugh a lot thinking the translator of the games might somehow also subject Nojima/Nomura to a big powerpoint deck on why under the Highwind needs to be explicit for a good half an hour. I'm genuinely laughing about how passionate this dude is.
Click to expand...

Thing is, at the end of the day, FF7 is a T-Rated game.

Whatever happens around the Highwind will always be kinda implicit.

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Eerie

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Stiggie said:
Heej welonz, I am actually listening to her streams during work, and she in fact JUST left corel about 5 min ago for me :P


I was getting the feeling she was leaning strongly towards tifa
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Welonz is very much CT since Remake, but she loves both girls. She heard of the LTD which made her wary, but ended up loving everything!
 
nars305

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
thetriplerhyme said:
btw not LTD related but wanna share

Nomura especially requested Yuffie's first love to be included on her date. yay ~

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1778663839300813053
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See this is what I find interesting. I understand these are separate from the story but then here we’re sort of told it’s an insight into a piece of Yuffie. So even though they are not a part of the story, they still have meaning in them.
 
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