SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Gym Leader Devil]

I was thinking of the hook to lead into the chorus, but I'm flexible.

Ooo if we're going this route I need a false hook fakeout so less committed fans start singing along a full second too early.

Knew you'd get the reference.

Your faith was not misplaced.

Fun fact, my wife lived in Hokkaido for a time and we have a short series- sadly now abandoned- called Console Tours where I wander about Sinnoh and the wife compares it to real locations in Hokkaido.

Hokkaido is my pick for prettiest landscapes in Japan. And that's a kickass concept for a series. I can imagine a community project roping in people from all over glorious Nippon, New York/Jersey, Hawaii, and so on to do this all over Pokearth. Though we could maybe skip Galar. Cause... Ew.

Possibly me in years gone by.

Probably both, but since I never dove down that particular rabbit hole on TVTropes you probably get more credit.

The facet that's not Grumpy is the "together with Tifa" facet. That one's happy but socially awkward.

Our socially awkward grump turns to mush in Tifa's presence. Notice when she reveals her belief that he liked to be alone as a kid, she gets a dose of grump. But it doesn't last two sentences. He's in full "we can still know each other better it's fine" almost instantly.

The idea of the setting is that civilization is trying to A: raise land above the cloud sea to create your classic flying island, and B: find the source of the cloud sea and if possible stop it. It also allowed for spelljammer like play without need for space travel.

Sounds fun. I think if I played in such a setting with an existing character I'd bring my halfling monk. I wanna throw my Kung Lao style hidden chakram hat at sky swimming Sahguins.

Always appreciated when you can say fuck you to a shit job or manager.

There are greater joys in life, but not many.

It's related and he can hang out with the family mascot!

Of course we could also suggest a name relating to his weird new hot claws thing. Fire Ferret! And have him actually get the reference thanks to his many teen sidekicks.

It's funny, X-men used to be the multiverse focused chunk of the line.

Too true, but that baton seems well and truly passed at this point.

And then you see how shat upon he is by life in 616 and you wonder who editoria's conflakes he pisses in.

Well it's Peter "Spider-Troll" Parker so... most of them? Thanks to a particularly strong spider sense tingle he did it before they started shutting on him, self fulfilling prophecy style.

Danke.

De nada.

I was trying to avoid relying on the X-men, but yes, Wolverine fits quite well. Plus, he's been Australian, now he can be southern.

Me too, hence going to Rocket first. But hey, at least Logan is on every team ever. Plus if the vendors will leave them alone for five they can both chainsmoke, it all fits.

Truly, a fate worthy of being Hojo.

He really got off lightly in the OG, more suffering for Hojo please.

It wasn't sephiroth that killed Aerith, it was smoke inhalation! ZOIDBERG!

Woop-woop-woop!

I believe so, yes.

Thought so.

Sonic 06 just being damning straight up.

No joke. The best thing about that game is knowing I never spent money on it. Also that it retcons itself at the end.

I need to find my stats for the evil Arborial Dwarves in DnD who were a parody of Drow and Drop bears. They started combats by falling from trees butt first trying to land on people's heads. While wearing a giant steel butt spike.

The added butt spikes make that. We actually fought Dropbears while using the Dream time to traverse a long distance quickly back before the party had reliable teleport spells. The first one to attack ended up impaled on the horns of a tiefling. Said tiefling being such a unit that he just carried the thing around on his head smashing into the others. Butt spikes would certainly negate that.

That presumes there's sanity left to be had.

There's certainly not much to be found locally I hope I brought a shred with me. Maybe it'll take root.

The basket it somehow wedged inside the arm itself, flailing about as they move.

I'm dying just picturing it. Bonus if they were actually doing well till the basket wedge, and now every flower is spraying out as if from a high pressure hose with every twitch.

I aim to please.

Oh I'm torn. Be genuine, make a dirty joke, say "tell that to BB"

If anyone is in FF it's Gilgamesh.
Or Ardyn Izunia. He's like the evil version of Tom Baker (Colin baker joke goes here).

Truly Gilgamesh would look at Cloud and just St have a "first time, eh kid?" chuckle.

Same old Bullshit, greater sense of desperation.

Have they hit chewing their own leg off yet?

There seems to be a greater franticness this time. Like they're desperate to self soothe.

The disassociation from the truth must be getting painful.

Yeah, I've been thinking, and we don't need to confront her death, we can just acknowledge it, have Cloud go "right after it happened, I wasn't sure what happened. Part of me knew she was dead, part of me thought I'd saved her at the last second" Do that when the party is watching the memory projection and you can lead into "But it was always her saving us. She wasn't worried about her own safety. She wanted to save us. Let's not let that hope be in vein, let's go kick Sephiroth's but. Mosey Mosey Mosey."

This is one of the better suggestions I've seen. I suspect it's gonna get weirder than this, but I genuinely hope it goes somewhere similar in the end.

Hi, who the fuck are you and why are you shitting up this topic?

There he is. That's the Ryu I remember.

I read this in a bright, sunny tone of voice. Tell me I'm right please kthx.

I've checked your post history and you have primarily just said piss obvious shit in a confrontational way and accused other posters of being Cleriths because they have panic attacks about Square Enix fucking things up.

Applause.

There's nothing new to their actions, but they're trying very hard to push it and I feel it betrays a desperation and an attempt to hold onto their own self assurance that they backed the right horse.

Do not wait until symptom Ms worsen, take your Copium immediately to head off critical thinking before it's too late.

Cloud loses his entire shit at the idea of Tifa being dead. With Aerith- in the half of the hypertime where she is dead and he's aware she's dead - he cries over her death and moves forward.

This. They're both bad for him, but when it's Tifa who appears dead? Cloud is shutting down now. There's Jesus at no point in being aware and ambulatory if there's no Tifa to be aware of and ambulate towards.

I don't think they think they won, is the funny part. I think we're looking at frantic denial right now.

So it's like when people shout"the 2020 election was rigged!" and hope to someday believe it?

And Tifa's near death sent him well over the ledge and her coming back brought him back, and then remembering Zack's demise sent him teetering again and his sense of self has been continually eroding all throughout rebirth.

Emphasis added by me because I feel like this gets overlooked a lot. Not necessarily by anyone here, but elsewhere. Cloud is on a downward spiral of instability all through Rebirth. I'd contend you can see it in Remake even, but the swirl is really picking up speed by the time of TOTA. It's very much a worsening situation slowed slightly by Tifa. When her faith in him shakes, that'll be the plug pulled fully. And then it'll be up to her to stabilize him for real in the LS sequence.

 

[abzy1200]

They need to go on ahead and call Tifa the love of his life. If not, then don’t make him look at her like this.

I always hate these kinds of arguments because usually the people who flock to them have nothing else to prove their point. But I mean, look at the guy, he's speechless, it's like he was put under a spell.

 

[Yoru]

I always hate these kinds of arguments because usually the people who flock to them have nothing else to prove their point. But I mean, look at the guy, he's speechless, it's like he was put under a spell.

To be fair, we're talking about people who see this, and celebrate it like a victory of love or some shit. DUDE. The lightning alone is the biggest red flag I have ever seen in my life.

There is nothing that will change their mind. Nothing. What's important is that the final game is clear enough for the majority of the people playing it.

 

[nars305]

Nomura knew perfectly two years prior to AC that Cloud and Tifa were together, I think people should put this into perspective of AC: they wanted us to discover what happened, they weren't going to tell us "yeah Cloud and Tifa are together but going through a hard time; look forward the conclusion of this though!" (especially since AC especially sucked in my opinion lol). People have been bothering him about the characters' love life when it's not the crux of the movie, that is... it's guilt, it's moving on, being able to forgive oneself and accept the death of people close to you. So he was at a point where he was clearly getting annoyed by all these questions, but the fact that Cloud and Tifa end up together by the end of the OG is for the devs an evidence. I mean, they wrote it and they even created Tifa for this role specifically.


Yes he took it out but at the same time, he made sure everyone would make the connection by talking about it. Lol.


The game I guess with her dying?


They do describe Tifa with a romantic term "大切な女性" aka taisetsuna josei:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1781490650141295096

They already gave the right answer and they already said look, Cloud and Tifa are a thing. The fact that the translations do miss is not really their fault in this case (since it's a booklet). The fact that fans either aren't aware of this or downright ignoring this just shows how wilfully ignorant they are willing to remain.

This is why Nojima is out to catch all those bad takes. Part 3 will be extremely interesting and also very very direct compared to the OG, IMHO.

This tweet sent me down a rabbit hole. I feel like I continue to find out about these differences they give between Tifa and anyone else Cloud can be with.

Talking about the different dialogue on the GS dates if you have the same person for both GS dates. With Tifa like they always make him, he is excited to go as opposed to the others.

Why do they do this lmao

 

[nars305]

To be fair, we're talking about people who see this, and celebrate it like a victory of love or some shit. DUDE. The lightning alone is the biggest red flag I have ever seen in my life.

There is nothing that will change their mind. Nothing. What's important is that the final game is clear enough for the majority of the people playing it.

View attachment 15978

Imagine being one of the characters behind him and see him smiling like this at nothing.

*Also it’s weird they give this same kind of smile for if he smiles at her at the Cosmo Canyon speech lol.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Oh yeah I know, there isn't a reality where Nomura is as involved as he is with ff7 and just doesn't know lmao. I'm just saying it's a quote that Cleriths latch onto. It didn't do Cloti any favours.

But then they come out with statements like "Aerith, the girl with the blood of the ancients running through her veins who will be engraved in Clouds heart for the rest of life", which isn't romantic, but it can easily be interpreted as such, and under any other context certainly would be. They love keeping this vagueness.

If they hit you with that one, remind them that his promise to Tifa has the exact same phrasing used.

Well it's a very Japanese way to look at this, my very Japanese father says the same about his mother so uh yeah. Needless to say he doesn't know anything about FFVII lol.


Well it's not like we didn't try to give him reality checks here before he was banned you know.

It's tragic what happened to Jairus, but it's his own damn fault what he became.

Yeah, I actually looked at the his thread a bit ago. Particularly the stuff about Loveless, in which Remake gave Jessie some relevance too. His complaint about how that was taken away from her when it was something new to begin with.

Yeah, if anything they went above and beyond what they needed to by giving us a recording of her performance that we can't miss or auto-skip in subsequent playthroughs. That's more than the other two got.

@Ryushikaze Yes, it feels to me a case of "If I say it a lot and as loud as I can, then it will become truth."

I saw one of them recently trying to use "the one I love" page from the U10 as pro CA evidence, completely failing to note the segment about Mutual feelings confirmed without words between C and T beneath the highwind.

Ooo if we're going this route I need a false hook fakeout so less committed fans start singing along a full second too early.

Go for it.

Your faith was not misplaced.

Hokkaido is my pick for prettiest landscapes in Japan. And that's a kickass concept for a series. I can imagine a community project roping in people from all over glorious Nippon, New York/Jersey, Hawaii, and so on to do this all over Pokearth. Though we could maybe skip Galar. Cause... Ew.

You need to get an Australian for that one so you can view the UK upside down. I would like to redo the series at some point with the Gen IV remakes and an eventual Gen V remake.

Probably both, but since I never dove down that particular rabbit hole on TVTropes you probably get more credit.

I think you'd appreciate the concept of my fan made hero. He's a magic user by heroic trop, but a scientist by trade and personality and he just treats magic as a another science to research. He runs an R&D company that essentially "sciencifies" magic to turn it into a safe technology anyone can use. His hero name is Thaumaturge, PhD.

Our socially awkward grump turns to mush in Tifa's presence. Notice when she reveals her belief that he liked to be alone as a kid, she gets a dose of grump. But it doesn't last two sentences. He's in full "we can still know each other better it's fine" almost instantly.

He's got it bad for the lady, it is known.

Sounds fun. I think if I played in such a setting with an existing character I'd bring my halfling monk. I wanna throw my Kung Lao style hidden chakram hat at sky swimming Sahguins.

Feel free to borrow it.

Of course we could also suggest a name relating to his weird new hot claws thing. Fire Ferret! And have him actually get the reference thanks to his many teen sidekicks.

Naming rights might be difficult to secure. I mean, they could always try and Sauron it, but times are very different there.

Too true, but that baton seems well and truly passed at this point.

Not wholly, but Pete's party definitely has the bigger focus on it now.

Well it's Peter "Spider-Troll" Parker so... most of them? Thanks to a particularly strong spider sense tingle he did it before they started shutting on him, self fulfilling prophecy style.

Yeah, that tracks.

Me too, hence going to Rocket first. But hey, at least Logan is on every team ever. Plus if the vendors will leave them alone for five they can both chainsmoke, it all fits.

Now you got me wondering what a Lary "GI JOE" Hama penned Cid Highwind story would be like.

He really got off lightly in the OG, more suffering for Hojo please.

All the suffering, really.

No joke. The best thing about that game is knowing I never spent money on it. Also that it retcons itself at the end.

The game so terrible it "that never happened" itself.

The added butt spikes make that. We actually fought Dropbears while using the Dream time to traverse a long distance quickly back before the party had reliable teleport spells. The first one to attack ended up impaled on the horns of a tiefling. Said tiefling being such a unit that he just carried the thing around on his head smashing into the others. Butt spikes would certainly negate that.

Exactly why they're there.

There's certainly not much to be found locally I hope I brought a shred with me. Maybe it'll take root.

Alternately, you just need to resonate on a destructively interfering wavelength of insanity.

I'm dying just picturing it. Bonus if they were actually doing well till the basket wedge, and now every flower is spraying out as if from a high pressure hose with every twitch.

More at seemingly random but always the most inopportune intervals. And also being stuck so they snap back when they're done firing out.

Oh I'm torn. Be genuine, make a dirty joke, say "tell that to BB"

Porque no lost tres?

Truly Gilgamesh would look at Cloud and just St have a "first time, eh kid?" chuckle.

I love the fact that Gilgamesh is all the evidence you need that Dissidia is 100% Canon, and by extension, the FF Multiverse. I mean there's plenty more, but he's all you need.

Have they hit chewing their own leg off yet?

I mean just a little while ago they were trying to use the Chocolate Buster Sword and Strawberry Parfaits at the Artnia cafe (the ones that get served with 7th Heaven Napkins) in Japan as evidence, so pretty damn close.

The disassociation from the truth must be getting painful.

I think technically it's classed as distressing, rather than "painful" but yes.

This is one of the better suggestions I've seen. I suspect it's gonna get weirder than this, but I genuinely hope it goes somewhere similar in the end.

I mean it might, given Cloud might still be stuck in multiple worlds at once, but I think we're going to get an ending that ends the many stamp variant timelines and leaves us with a singular time and lifestream yet again.

There he is. That's the Ryu I remember.

I read this in a bright, sunny tone of voice. Tell me I'm right please kthx.

Bright and sunny but no less dangerous for it.

Applause.

-Polite Bow-

Do not wait until symptom Ms worsen, take your Copium immediately to head off critical thinking before it's too late.

I think the copium is making the disease worse, really. They're ODing on the stuff.

This. They're both bad for him, but when it's Tifa who appears dead? Cloud is shutting down now. There's Jesus at no point in being aware and ambulatory if there's no Tifa to be aware of and ambulate towards.

Cloud just sat down on the floor and was a lump until he got word that Tifa might be okay, he's still stumbly for the six seconds you play as him before the cut scene takes over, we get Tifa back, Cloud is in working order again. She's a critical component for his current mind functioning at all.

So it's like when people shout"the 2020 election was rigged!" and hope to someday believe it?

Pretty much.

Emphasis added by me because I feel like this gets overlooked a lot. Not necessarily by anyone here, but elsewhere. Cloud is on a downward spiral of instability all through Rebirth. I'd contend you can see it in Remake even, but the swirl is really picking up speed by the time of TOTA. It's very much a worsening situation slowed slightly by Tifa. When her faith in him shakes, that'll be the plug pulled fully. And then it'll be up to her to stabilize him for real in the LS sequence.

Yeah, Cloud has been teetering on that edge and has almost fallen off several times long before the forgotten capitol.

 

[nepheneethedestroyer]

Trying to keep ambiguity will/would have dim these moments for me personally. I can’t imagine watching the LS scene and going “hm, but I wonder if he loves Aerith too?” It makes no sense.

I rewatched the OG Lifestream sequence last night and it made me cry it's so good!! Honestly if I shipped a couple and then saw one half of the ship go through a mind-meld-esque sequence where another woman helps him rediscover his true self and assures him that he was the hero she always saw him to be all along despite his personal belief that he was a failure I'd just give up on the spot LOL so I'll commend them on their resilience haha. I wouldn't have the strength.

RE: anyone else seeing Cloud attack Tifa at Gongaga, I don't think anyone else saw, everyone else's reaction while waiting for Tifa after the Weapon takes her is way too chill. Like, Cloud ain't getting away with just a slap from Barret if he saw Cloud attack Tifa, Red and Yuffie wouldn't be as nonchalant as they are if they all saw it.

 

[Legend45]

The 2nd choice debate is back how lovely.......

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1781757288111317494

 

[abzy1200]

If they hit you with that one, remind them that his promise to Tifa has the exact same phrasing used.

Doesn't the english translation for that use the word "etched" instead of "engraved" despite the exact same kanji being used for both?

More things lost in translation lmao. Will we ever be free of sketchy jp to en translations?

 

[abzy1200]

The 2nd choice debate is back how lovely.......

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1781757288111317494

What always confuses me about this argument is where it comes from in the first place.

This is a rundown of the events:

-Cloud falls in love with Tifa in Nibelheim when they were children.
-Cloud leaves to join SOLDIER to become a special someone to her.
-Cloud still holds onto those feelings during his time in the infantry.
-Nibelheim incident happens, Zack dies bringing Cloud to midgar.
-Cloud meets Tifa, and being too ashamed of his unextraordinary self he makes up a persona to pretend he fulfilled his promise to Tifa.(Aka, real!Cloud basically dissappears.)
-Cloud bares his soul to Tifa in the lifestream, and through her acceptance of the unextraordinary him, the real him resurfaces.
-Cloud and Tifa bang
-Cloud and Tifa move in together and start raising children.

What exactly about this ever screamed "second choice"?

 

[Sacky]

This tweet sent me down a rabbit hole. I feel like I continue to find out about these differences they give between Tifa and anyone else Cloud can be with.

Talking about the different dialogue on the GS dates if you have the same person for both GS dates. With Tifa like they always make him, he is excited to go as opposed to the others.

Why do they do this lmao

theres a lot you can find out and then be amazed how much differences the devs added and spent time animating.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

If they hit you with that one, remind them that his promise to Tifa has the exact same phrasing used.

You might need a hammer to drive it home, they're not gonna hear it willingly.

It's tragic what happened to Jairus, but it's his own damn fault what he became.

From what little I've learned about the story of Jairus I have a lot of sympathy for the guy, but yeah it's on him to seek the help he needs and stop shutting up the internet with his displaced affection induced madness.

Yeah, if anything they went above and beyond what they needed to by giving us a recording of her performance that we can't miss or auto-skip in subsequent playthroughs. That's more than the other two got.

Rebirth seems to be the story of giving Tifa more. Equal screentime might have been one of the goals, but equal relations most certainly were not.

I saw one of them recently trying to use "the one I love" page from the U10 as pro CA evidence, completely failing to note the segment about Mutual feelings confirmed without words between C and T beneath the highwind.

I suddenly have Let's Do the Time Warp Again stuck in my head, wonder what that's all about.

Go for it.

I'm also gonna constantly fuck with how high/low percussion is in the mix to make keeping rhythm unnecessarily difficult.

You need to get an Australian for that one so you can view the UK upside down.

Galar needs a little extra gimmick to help it past its suck, so I'm down. Seriously without focusing on the Pokemon native to the region it's got very little going for it.

I would like to redo the series at some point with the Gen IV remakes and an eventual Gen V remake.

I still wish the Gen IV remakes had been more like Gen 3D instead of a nearly 1:1 remake with a very minor graphical glow up plus Fairy-types. At least Cynthia is still a beast of a champion, I actually had to try for that win.

I think you'd appreciate the concept of my fan made hero. He's a magic user by heroic trop, but a scientist by trade and personality and he just treats magic as a another science to research. He runs an R&D company that essentially "sciencifies" magic to turn it into a safe technology anyone can use. His hero name is Thaumaturge, PhD.

That name alone is golden win.

He's got it bad for the lady, it is known.

At this point people who've never met them should see it immediately.

Feel free to borrow it.

I may downsize it to a more localized phenomenon and use it at some point. Something like that could be a great consequence for beating a BBEG to set up the next plot hook. Or a great consequence if a senile Archmage with wild magic surges doing basically anything

Naming rights might be difficult to secure. I mean, they could always try and Sauron it, but times are very different there.

Good point. Split the difference at Burning Badger?

Not wholly, but Pete's party definitely has the bigger focus on it now.

I feel like with the MCU trying to make multiversal shit the next big thing it's gonna hit everyone over time.

Yeah, that tracks.

Indeed.

Now you got me wondering what a Lary "GI JOE" Hama penned Cid Highwind story would be like.

Sounds either really good or really awful, I don't see much in between here. Either way I think it'd sell.

All the suffering, really.

Honestly Sephiroth is a victim turned villain, Hojo is responsible for... every major bad thing aside from Mako Reactors? Yeah, there's not enough suffering in one timeline, let's torture multiple Hojos and fuse 'em to get all that trauma in one.

The game so terrible it "that never happened" itself.

I mean Sonic seems to remember it, but fortunately he's Sonic so he just kinda shrugged and left at high speed.

Exactly why they're there.

Spikes solve problems. The Dr. Wiley guide to lair design cannot be wrong about this.

Alternately, you just need to resonate on a destructively interfering wavelength of insanity.

You make a solid case for this. Maybe what the situation needs to sort itself out us just a good solid dose of more crazy. Like, we ripped a portal into the Abyss type crazy.

More at seemingly random but always the most inopportune intervals. And also being stuck so they snap back when they're done firing out.

The snap back is key, so you never know if they'll count as in or out when time runs out.

Porque no lost tres?

I look more decisive if I pick one.

I love the fact that Gilgamesh is all the evidence you need that Dissidia is 100% Canon, and by extension, the FF Multiverse. I mean there's plenty more, but he's all you need.

He's come a long way from being just a recurring gag boss without ever losing sight of his roots. Good on that man.

I mean just a little while ago they were trying to use the Chocolate Buster Sword and Strawberry Parfaits at the Artnia cafe (the ones that get served with 7th Heaven Napkins) in Japan as evidence, so pretty damn close.

Fuck sake that's sad. And vaguely sounds like a euphemism for stuff served at a hen party.

I think technically it's classed as distressing, rather than "painful" but yes.

That is strictly more accurate, though I was classifying their distress as emotional pain.

I mean it might, given Cloud might still be stuck in multiple worlds at once, but I think we're going to get an ending that ends the many stamp variant timelines and leaves us with a singular time and lifestream yet again.

It kinda feels like that's where it has to end up, yeah. At the very most it might be subtle enough that you could interpret it as the timelines being separated from interacting with each other rather than no longer existing.

Bright and sunny but no less dangerous for it.

Exactly how I read it. That's how I begin stern dad talks when the kids are acting less than ideal.

-Polite Bow-

One day the temptation to do a big showy flourishing bow will overcome you.

I think the copium is making the disease worse, really. They're ODing on the stuff.

So it's the plot of every "big pharma bad" story I've ever seen then.

Cloud just sat down on the floor and was a lump until he got word that Tifa might be okay, he's still stumbly for the six seconds you play as him before the cut scene takes over, we get Tifa back, Cloud is in working order again. She's a critical component for his current mind functioning at all.

Yep. And then she'll be a critical component of him becoming able to function on his own.

Pretty much.

That's sad and angering and hilarious all at once. So many complex emotions, just be hungry or dead.

Yeah, Cloud has been teetering on that edge and has almost fallen off several times long before the forgotten capitol.

He's pretty much over the side and holding on by fingertips alone at this point.

Edit @abzy1200: Etching and Engraving are two different methods of accomplishing the same task, so it's mostly fine even in English.

 

[nars305]

What always confuses me about this argument is where it comes from in the first place.

This is a rundown of the events:

-Cloud falls in love with Tifa in Nibelheim when they were children.
-Cloud leaves to join SOLDIER to become a special someone to her.
-Cloud still holds onto those feelings during his time in the infantry.
-Nibelheim incident happens, Zack dies bringing Cloud to midgar.
-Cloud meets Tifa, and being too ashamed of his unextraordinary self he makes up a persona to pretend he fulfilled his promise to Tifa.(Aka, real!Cloud basically dissappears.)
-Cloud bares his soul to Tifa in the lifestream, and through her acceptance of the unextraordinary him, the real him resurfaces.
-Cloud and Tifa bang
-Cloud and Tifa move in together and start raising children.

What exactly about this ever screamed "second choice"?

It’s very easy to make a second choice argument if you completely disregard the story.

I love how the person says “even party members know”. I don’t even claim Barret’s statement at GS is about Tifa. But if we wanna talk about the party noticing…pretty sure statements are specifically made about Cloud and Tifa and not a vague statement from Barret.

Barret also knows Cloud is important to Tifa, hence why he slaps the shit out of him. Find it hard to believe Barret is dumb as hell and doesn’t know they have something going on.

 

[Ryeleigh]

The 2nd choice debate is back how lovely.......

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1781757288111317494

Tbh, I sincerely hope I will never be this wrong about something, lol.

As for the party members knowing, Jessie picked up on it before the player even meets Tifa, Aerith picked up on it, and Yuffie picked up on it and immediately started teasing Cloud about wanting his exclusive Tifa-harem, lol. (Also, I'm probably forgetting other characters.)

 

[LNK]

The 2nd choice debate is back how lovely.......

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1781757288111317494

Those people should be laughed at and mocked until they realize their ignorance

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

So laughed at forever in many cases.

 

[LNK]

Yes. Maybe then they'll give up when people stop entertaining their delusions

 

[GamerSkull]

Tifa isn't Cloud's second choice, I firmly believe if Aerith still lived he'd ultimately choose to be with Tifa regardless.

I mean, that's partially the reason they made him kiss her before Aerith even dies.

 

[Stiggie]

Tifa isn't Cloud's second choice, I firmly believe if Aerith still lived he'd ultimately choose to be with Tifa regardless.

I don't even believe she's his first choice, there isn't a choice, it's Tifa or nothing.

 

[GamerSkull]

I don't even believe she's his first choice, there isn't a choice, it's Tifa or nothing.

That's just it, to them she HAS to be the second choice, otherwise it means his feelings for Aerith were never stronger than his feelings for Tifa.

Which I would argue is true... but they obviously can't accept that.

 

[Stiggie]

Off-topic, but since there is a lot of Lord of the rings talk here. When Gandalf says "we have but one choice, we must face the long dark of Moria".
Does anyone else go "that's not a choice".
Or in general when characters go "you have two choices" think "that's one choice, two options"?

 

[GamerSkull]

Off-topic, but since there is a lot of Lord of the rings talk here. When Gandalf says "we have but one choice, we must face the long dark of Moria".
Does anyone else go "that's not a choice".
Or in general when characters go "you have two choices" think "that's one choice, two options"?

Well, there were other choices... but now it's too late and they've been closed off. So the last choice remains, to face the mines.

 

[nepheneethedestroyer]

What always confuses me about this argument is where it comes from in the first place.

I do ultimately think it's an overall failure of media literacy to read things this way (viewing Tifa as the 2nd choice or not his true love or however you want to phrase it), and I don't know if this is the case in general, but I can at least understand coming away from AC, especially pre-Crisis Core, and thinking "Cloud was unhappy with Tifa he sought out solace with (the memory of?) Aerith." I do not think that was the creators' intention with AC and obviously if Cloud was "settling" for Tifa the movie would obviously be written...differently...? But alas.

 

[LNK]

Tifa isn't Cloud's second choice, I firmly believe if Aerith still lived he'd ultimately choose to be with Tifa regardless.

I mean, that's partially the reason they made him kiss her before Aerith even dies.

Right?

I'm sorry, but if anyone honestly believes Cloud is going for Aerith in a romantic way after playing through Rebirth, they have some growing in life to do. Cloud and Aerith both acknowledge they aren't and won't be a thing. I've seen people actually make the argument now an alt Cloud is going to end up with alt Aerith. Smh

 

[LNK]

I do ultimately think it's an overall failure of media literacy to read things this way

I think that's being charitable. You don't need to have media literacy to see what's going on with their relationships. The Re trilogy has been so overt about it