SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Sacky]

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yep i have a feeling Zack is in that mom memory when they are sitting at the table. It looks like there is another person meant to be there. Even the way his mom is speaking ik its the same as og but "don't you agree Cloud" could be in response to Zack saying something
This picture looks like she should be talking to someone or there should be people at the table.

 

[imach0c0]

Seeing a lot of discourse with how the dream date is interpreted. What do people mean its "zack coded?" Is that even a thing or just head canon stuff?

I don't think Aerith was using Cloud as a stand in for Zack, however the amount of Zack references in the subtext is hard to ignore. If it was a deliberate choice to bring in Zack references in the dream date, what is the purpose narratively?

 

[LNK]

Yeah of course. But as an expansion, we could have Sephiroth toying with Cloud in other moment of Remake/Rebirth even in the intro of the 3rd game.

Lol I was just messing around. I know many people hate Genesis. I like to bring him up from time to time haha

I was a bit sad in Remake they chose to spoil Zack to new players so I would love if they prepared a big "WTF?!" moment to emulate this twist from OG. And maybe I'm reading too deep and the "WTF?" moment was Zack reveal in itself XD

Yeah? I wasn't. I like that things are playing out a little differently. That way we all are surprised. Not just new fans

 

[AncientGrimoire]

The red dress scene was too over the top for me that it felt surreal. But I'm totally biased anyway because I liked her pink dresses more, lol. Sorry! but Aerith was super cute in them.


Omg, yes. I wanna see this in P3. Let it happen.

I liked her pink dresses too and hated that for her “worst” dress i.e. the one you get if you don’t do any sidequests in Sector 5, you have literal rats following after her and some dogs and cats like… what even are they trying to say with this?!

The dress is pretty! It’s very Aerith too which is why I felt they really did go from one extreme to the other in the responses to her dresses.

Edit: I personally liked the over the top, firework backdrop set reveal to the red dress but that’s just me, it felt very Disney. Aerith’s energy in the second pink dress is my favourite, again it’s very her.

 

[imach0c0]

yep i have a feeling Zack is in that mom memory when they are sitting at the table. It looks like there is another person meant to be there. Even the way his mom is speaking ik its the same as og but "don't you agree Cloud" could be in response to Zack saying something
This picture looks like she should be talking to someone or there should be people at the table.View attachment 16173

In CC, doesn't Cloud write an email to Zack asking him to come to his house because he is nervous since he hasn't been there in a while?

 

[Sacky]

In CC, doesn't Cloud write an email to Zack asking him to come to his house because he is nervous since he hasn't been there in a while?

yes i think they are gonna show that as a memory. It never happened in crisis core but it can easily fit in and give us more Zack and Cloud scenes for newcomers

 

[Yoru]

Seeing a lot of discourse with how the dream date is interpreted. What do people mean its "zack coded?" Is that even a thing or just head canon stuff?

I don't think Aerith was using Cloud as a stand in for Zack, however the amount of Zack references in the subtext is hard to ignore. If it was a deliberate choice to bring in Zack references in the dream date, what is the purpose narratively?

The new Stamp you can buy is a dog with black spiky hair. On the wall you can see a Stamp carrying on his back another hurted Stamp. When "you buy" the brooch to Aerith, she's saying the exact same words she told Zack : "I will cherish it"

And of course all the date is interrupted by Zack moments in other worlds.

It's complicated to dismiss all this points as Zack imagery. Why tho ? That's the real question and where the interpretation comes in play.

 

[imach0c0]

The new Stamp you can buy is a dog with black spiky hair. On the wall you can see a Stamp carrying on his back another hurted Stamp. When "you buy" the brooch to Aerith, she's saying the exact same words she told Zack : "I will cherish it"

And of course all the date is interrupted by Zack moments in other worlds.

It's complicated to dismiss all this points as Zack imagery. Why tho ? That's the real question and where the interpretation comes in play.

Do you have any interpretations on it?

The one that stood out to me is when Aerith says "special place" (JP) and it cuts to Zack at the church.

 

[Eerie]

After reading that question and its answer, I know I need to have that Zack eating at Cloud's place with Claudia and him in the LS Nibelheim flashback. PLEASE!

 

[imach0c0]

After reading that question and its answer, I know I need to have that Zack eating at Cloud's place with Claudia and him in the LS Nibelheim flashback. PLEASE!

They seem to reference CC a lot, so it would be cool as Cloud starts recalling more Zack memories, we get to see more ZC interactions. I wonder if they will incorporate the hidden scenes in OG - where they got captured and experimented on.

 

[Ryeleigh]

I liked her pink dresses too and hated that for her “worst” dress i.e. the one you get if you don’t do any sidequests in Sector 5, you have literal rats following after her and some dogs and cats like… what even are they trying to say with this?!

Right! The "worst" dress was really cute too, I don't get why it's called the worst lol. I'd totally like something cute like that.

They seem to reference CC a lot, so it would be cool as Cloud starts recalling more Zack memories, we get to see more ZC interactions. I wonder if they will incorporate the hidden scenes in OG - where they got captured and experimented on.

More ZC please.

 

[Yoru]

Do you have any interpretations on it?

Not really an interpretation. To me If the church is truly a special place in common for Aerith, it's with Zack

It's just facts. That's there meeting point in Crisis Core for more than 1 year if I remember well. Cloud has only entered this church once in his life.

Why is she saying this to Cloud ? I don't know. Like I already said, we don't even know what this Aerith is.

Funny take for you all : And what if all this dream date was Cloud memories and not Aerith' ? We saw Zack is always talking about Aerith to Cloud. He may have describe their dates, what she's saying to him. So that's why we see the stamp carrying his teamate and all. That's just Cloud subconscious recreating a date he heard about. And his inner self is screaming :

NOOOOOOOO CLOUD !!! STOP !! Remember Zack !!! It's his girlfriend !!!!

 

[nars305]

More ZC please.

I hope so. Can’t lie, I was a bit disappointed with Zack fighting with Cloud and there’s not much of anything to it afterward. I know they are fighting Sephiroth but I don’t know. Cloud kind of acted like it was just another Tuesday.

 

[imach0c0]

Not really an interpretation. To me If the church is truly a special place in common for Aerith, it's with Zack

It's just facts. That's there meeting point in Crisis Core for more than 1 year if I remember well. Cloud has only entered this church once in his life.

Why is she saying this to Cloud ? I don't know. Like I already said, we don't even know what this Aerith is.

Funny take for you all : And what if all this was Cloud memories and not Aerith' ? We saw Zack is always talking about Aerith to Cloud. He may have describe their dates, what she's saying to him. So that's why we see the stamp carrying his teamate and all. That's just Cloud subconscious recreating a date he heard about. And his inner self is screaming :

NOOOOOOOO CLOUD !!! STOP !! Remember Zack !!! It's his girlfriend !!!!

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Oh mb - I meant interpretations regarding the zack imagery, not just the church part.

 

[imach0c0]

I hope so. Can’t lie, I was a bit disappointed with Zack fighting with Cloud and there’s not much of anything to it afterward. I know they are fighting Sephiroth but I don’t know. Cloud kind of acted like it was just another Tuesday.

For Zack, Cloud was mako sleeping all game and for Cloud, he seemed traumatized to remember him dying. So when they show up together, it was kinda jarring how casual their interactions were. Especially with how the game was handling character relationships and dialogue.

 

[Ryeleigh]

I hope so. Can’t lie, I was a bit disappointed with Zack fighting with Cloud and there’s not much of anything to it afterward. I know they are fighting Sephiroth but I don’t know. Cloud kind of acted like it was just another Tuesday.

I hope they're saving it all for P3 when they can start to actually answer the mysteries. So I guess I'll just wait until then to be disappointed, lol.

Though, to be honest, against all logic, I'm still hoping for a date between Zack and Cloud. If everybody else got one, he deserves one too, lol.

 

[Sacky]

For Zack, Cloud was mako sleeping all game and for Cloud, he seemed traumatized to remember him dying. So when they show up together, it was kinda jarring how casual their interactions were. Especially with how the game was handling character relationships and dialogue.

We also gotta remember Clouds headspace Aeriths just died he sees her alive was initially thinking she's dead. Sephiroth is taunting him he's repressing his own memories and has been transported away from the others to edge of creation (which might be a place in Clouds mind)
Then Zack appears but Sephiroth attacks.

 

[LNK]

I hope so. Can’t lie, I was a bit disappointed with Zack fighting with Cloud and there’s not much of anything to it afterward. I know they are fighting Sephiroth but I don’t know. Cloud kind of acted like it was just another Tuesday.

Yeah, it's similar to the ending of Remake. My hope is something will be said about it near the beginning of the 3rd game

 

[Yoru]

Oh mb - I meant interpretations regarding the zack imagery, not just the church part.

I said it jokingly but I'm half serious. We all focused on Aerith while everything was happening in Cloud's head. She says that it's her dream but why couldn't Cloud's subconscious also act on what's happening ?

Maybe he's the one who thinks of Zack and makes him appear via the stamps. Cloud remembers part of Zack during the game. He remembers that he is in love with Aerith. Maybe his subconscious is really trying to remind him of something. Maybe that's why the photographer tells him they don't look like a real couple. Maybe it's Cloud who refuses to make it romantic. Because he feels uncomfortable with the situation.

During all Rebirth the fact that Aerith still has feelings for Zack he's in the back of his mind. Some say he's jealous. Other say he's just sorry for her and doesn't know how to confess to her that Zack is dead. And that's why Aerith's statements are so contradictory with this Zack imagery. Why confess to a guy when you're thinking about another ? It may explain it.

Not 100% confident in this, but honestly it could work.

 

[eleamaya]

Do you have any interpretations on it?

The one that stood out to me is when Aerith says "special place" (JP) and it cuts to Zack at the church.

Maybe that's why the photographer tells him they don't look like a real couple.

I think the moment when the photographer said CA doesn't look like couple because the girl looks like gonna cry (JP)/it's like funeral (EN) is also the callback how the shopkeeper in CC thought Zack is Aerith's boyfriend that she wouldnt find a good--kindhearted guy like him, and Bruno says Zack & Aerith look good together,

About the church, this isn't ever mentioned before in this discussion. But Nomura says in Dengeki Maou for CCFF7 interview back then (2007)
"Whenever something comes up in his mind, Zack heads straight to the church, as if he’s looking to be healed."
Aside from the moment Aerith embraced him when he's grieving Angeal's death, Nomura's comment reminds me of all of these scenes throughout Remake & Rebirth:



EDIT: adding this
"This is a strange place. Flowers bloom all year long. The seasons never change--my feelings never change. I’m stuck.”
(Aerith's monologue, FF 30th Anniversary Exhibition 2018)

Which strange place that flowers bloom all year long? The church, right?
So, it's the place where her feelings (for Zack) never change because there is too many memories of him (or them being spending time together there). The place where she finally admit she knew where she & Cloud stand.

 

[Sacky]

I think the moment when the photographer said CA doesn't look like couple because the girl looks like gonna cry (JP)/it's like funeral (EN) is also the callback how the shopkeeper in CC thought Zack is Aerith's boyfriend that she wouldnt find a good--kindhearted guy like him, and Bruno says Zack & Aerith look good together,

About the church, this isn't ever mentioned before in this discussion. But Nomura says in Dengeki Maou for CCFF7 interview back then (2007)
"Whenever something comes up in his mind, Zack heads straight to the church, as if he’s looking to be healed."
Aside from the moment Aerith embraced him when he's grieving Angeal's death, Nomura's comment reminds me of all of these scenes throughout Remake & Rebirth:

View attachment 16177

Any theories which church Zack is in at the end?

 

[imach0c0]

I said it jokingly but I'm half serious. We all focused on Aerith while everything was happening in Cloud's head. She says that it's her dream but why couldn't Cloud's subconscious also act on what's happening ?

Maybe he's the one who thinks of Zack and makes him appear via the stamps. Cloud remembers part of Zack during the game. He remembers that he is in love with Aerith. Maybe his subconscious is really trying to remind him of something. Maybe that's why the photographer tells him they don't look like a real couple. Maybe it's Cloud who refuses to make it romantic. Because he feels uncomfortable with the situation.

During all Rebirth the fact that Aerith still has feelings for Zack he's in the back of his mind. Some say he's jealous. Other say he's just sorry for her and doesn't know how to confess to her that Zack is dead. And that's why Aerith's statements are so contradictory with this Zack imagery. Why confess to a guy when you're thinking about another ? It may explain it.

Not 100% confident in this, but honestly it could work.

That's a pretty interesting analysis that I have not seen before.

One of the thoughts I had was if this world is created by Aerith and these worlds are made of dreams/hopes, it could be representing Aerith's subconscious, meaning where her true heart lies (Zack). Thought she is trying to have this moment with a "real" Cloud that she is trying to find, it does not seem to work out because this "love" she is seeking is still with Zack (she just doesn't realize it due to her being confused about her feelings). On the surface, she is trying to move on from Zack to Cloud but its not working out because deep inside her heart, she still yearns for Zack.

 

[imach0c0]

I think the moment when the photographer said CA doesn't look like couple because the girl looks like gonna cry (JP)/it's like funeral (EN) is also the callback how the shopkeeper in CC thought Zack is Aerith's boyfriend that she wouldnt find a good--kindhearted guy like him, and Bruno says Zack & Aerith look good together,

About the church, this isn't ever mentioned before in this discussion. But Nomura says in Dengeki Maou for CCFF7 interview back then (2007)
"Whenever something comes up in his mind, Zack heads straight to the church, as if he’s looking to be healed."
Aside from the moment Aerith embraced him when he's grieving Angeal's death, Nomura's comment reminds me of all of these scenes throughout Remake & Rebirth:

View attachment 16177

When Zack gets healed in the church, its similar to his Aerith Limit Break in CC. Not sure if its a coincidence but its an interesting similarity.

 

[Yoru]

Any theories which church Zack is in at the end?

What if he never left it to begin with ?

Like Cloud escaping the dream date/sleeping forrest when he wakes up. What if all of Zack worlds are dreams too ? When he wakes up and say "it felt too real" we suppose he's talking about the Sephiroth fight and all. But what if he's talking about all his Rebirth's POV ?

Maybe the Intergrade secret ending is the actual Zack returning, staying in the Church, sleeping and all of Rebirth happens.
Where is this Church you're asking ? Well...

I DON'T KNOW lmao

 

[imach0c0]

What if he never left it to begin with ?

Like Cloud escaping the dream date/sleeping forrest when he wakes up. What if all of Zack worlds are dreams too ? When he wakes up and say "it felt too real" we suppose he's talking about the Sephiroth fight and all. But what if he's talking about all his Rebirth's POV.

Maybe the Intergrade secret ending is the actual Zack returning, staying in the Church, sleeping and all of Rebirth happens

Do you think that's why the Zack chapters are skippable after beating the game? Also, I can see that as a work around to the Intergrade Zack scene.