SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Yoru]

The way I interpreted all 3 examples you mentioned was people comforting each other. The dream date could be romantic; if it was, it felt one-sided from Aerith's end. Cloud is hard to read during that whole sequence. Having said that, I struggle to see a romantic implication from his end.

My personal opinion is that no moment between Aerith and Cloud is totally romantic in Rebirth. I think it's pretty clear from his body and facial animations (which cost a ton of money and are therefore done with great care and vision) that he simply doesn't see her as a woman with whom he wants to share more than friendship.

However, I try to be fair to people who love Aerith and Cloud. And for me, trying to be as objective as possible, it's their hug in the church that's really romantic. He responds immediately to her coming into his arms, there's almost no hesitation. They exchange very few words. It's just peaceful and romantic.

 

[ChaosandConfusion]

Is there anything in the compilation from Cloud's pov because it seems like he kind of goes where the wind blows.
And I might be in the minority but they should have carried over the cattiness (from og) between the two girls over Cloud to remake if there not going to address the elephant in the room.

 

[nars305]

There are 3 major moments when Aerith and Cloud are very close physically.

The GS date: She imposes herself on him. She tells him clearly in words, "please, let me enjoy this moment". It's not an exchange of glances or anything. There's no real call for interpretation. She needs tenderness at this point because she's just been talking about Zack, whom Cloud describes as dead. So it's more comfort > romance.

Church date: She asks for forgiveness for what she's about to do, then comes and throws herself into his arms. He says nothing, and chooses to respond by hugging her as well. The preceding discussion is vague and super ambiguous, but this moment can clearly be considered romantic.

Aerith's death: I'm not a big fan of talking about romance when the subject of the scene is someone's death. There's no kiss good-bye. There's tenderness. Everyone can see what they want, but personally I find it creepy to talk about romance.

tl;dr : The church date is way more romantic than any other moment in the game, GS date included.

I think that the GS and Church are similar. They both seem to me to be Aerith saying what she wants to feel and it conflicting with how she really feels.

You’re not him and that’s okay seems like she’s talking to herself, not really Cloud. Trying to convince herself?

I like you Cloud but there’s different likings, and again, similarly, she looks like she’s not entirely certain but trying to be.

*So it’s hard for me to feel romance when Aerith always seems conflicted.

 

[Eerie]

Is there anything in the compilation from Cloud's pov because it seems like he kind of goes where the wind blows.

Yes, the latest novella bit which is when he joined Shinra army, basically. And where he thought, twice I think that he wanted to become a special existence to Tifa. This is the bits that Nojima said it would help understand Cloud's mind entering Rebirth lol so personally I take it as it is.

But I know next game is going to adress CA (as I said it does not work within the game story nor the Compilation) by simply adressing ZA and CT. The Lifestream scene, to me, looks very promising, considering the hints we've gotten in Rebirth. Just look what we got so far in Remake and Rebirth, knowing that it's p3 that's the CT part in the OG... yeah. There's no turning around there.

 

[imach0c0]

Yes, the latest novella bit which is when he joined Shinra army, basically. And where he thought, twice I think that he wanted to become a special existence to Tifa. This is the bits that Nojima said it would help understand Cloud's mind entering Rebirth lol so personally I take it as it is.

But I know next game is going to adress CA (as I said it does not work within the game story nor the Compilation) by simply adressing ZA and CT. The Lifestream scene, to me, looks very promising, considering the hints we've gotten in Rebirth. Just look what we got so far in Remake and Rebirth, knowing that it's p3 that's the CT part in the OG... yeah. There's no turning around there.

Address CA in what way?

 

[shady]

I think there is a fine line in Rebirth between Romantic and Platonic and the writing and depiction of both Cloud and Tifa and Cloud and Aerith's storylines do different things when it comes to the line

Strictly Romantic - Cloud x Tifa

The Line/Middle Ground - Cloud x Aerith

Strictly Platonic​

What I mean by this is that there are multiple moments in Rebirth that can't be considered anything but Romantic, a nearly kiss, confirmation of "mutual feelings" in the moment, staring at them with a smile on your face whilst they aren't looking and an actual kiss between Cloud and Tifa - as well as more - are moments that can't be misconstrued, aint nobody going to believe these are things you just do with someone if they are your strictly your friend. These are things you cannot just back up on now in Part 3, because people will start to question will hang on, you had Cloud and Tifa nearly kiss, as well as kiss (even if you say dates are non canon the general public won't see it that way) and then you just dump all that like they didn't happen just to make Cloud kiss/end up with Aerith at the end, what? That would be terrible storywriting and characterisation especially with what we know are big moments coming up between the two in Part 3.

However with Cloud and Aerith I feel like they straddle the line between Romantic and Platonic enough to the point there is no moment between them that I feel like "there is a point of no return now" depicting friendly interactions between them or Cloud being upset at her death is not Romantic, and things like the hand holding and "dates" can be considered romantic obviously but then others interpret them as comforting or platonic depending on the context, or even related to Zack and Aerith's memories of him (S5 date, depending on how you interpret this, i'd love the Directors commentary on this scene) Then of course there is the one sided confession from Aerith where she herself is conflicted on if she even likes Cloud romantically or platonically, you cannot get more middle ground if you tried. It would seem to me she'd like to have the opportunity to know which way she likes Cloud but never gets said opportunity for obvious reasons.

Being an adult about this, I would like to think as adult characters the so called "elephants in the room" aka peoples feelings are addressed in Part 3, namely;

Zack and Aerith's reunion - They need to resolve the idea whether Aerith "like likes" Cloud because that is the impression Zack seems to be under due to Marlene's comments, not to mention Aerith herself wrestling with the idea on if she does or not, there's no way they don't address this.

Real Cloud and Tifa's reunion - The Lifestream is a perfect moment to - again - brandish the mutual feelings between both characters, however this time both Cloud and Tifa are already closer than ever and their relationship is way more developed at this point than it ever was in the OG, meaning the Lifestream has potential to be even more heart wrenching and romantic between the two.. hell, could we see an honest to god confession here from someone?

Real Cloud and Aerith meeting - I think this will happen yes, I think it will because if they want everyone to have a happy ending I think he will meet Zack and Aerith one last time to have a real conversation in order for him to move forward with his life. IF this were to happen i'd like to see them address the idea of a romance between them and if anything could have happened, and I think what should be said for closure for both of them is that, maybe in another lifetime, if Zack and Tifa never existed and Aerith wasn't tied down by destiny, who knows, but that never happened, and Zack and Tifa do exist and the reality is Cloud and Aerith have only ever loved both of them in that way respectively and they are both with the person they truly want to be with, but they part ways still loving each other as friends/family with Aerith still watching over Cloud and Tifa and everyone else. Is this cheesy as hell and unrealistic? Yeah but.. I think it would be a nice thing to cap the whole thing off of.

 

[Yoru]

I think that the GS and Church are similar. They both seem to me to be Aerith saying what she wants to feel and it conflicting with how she really feels.

You’re not him and that’s okay seems like she’s talking to herself, not really Cloud. Trying to convince herself?

I like you Cloud but there’s different likings, and again, similarly, she looks like she’s not entirely certain but trying to be.

*So it’s hard for me to feel romance when Aerith always seems conflicted.

I see your point. But at least at the church, she doesn't bring her ex directly into the discussion....She's conflicted sure, but she doesn't say to your face in the middle of your intimate moment "You know ? You really look like my ex! ".

 

[imach0c0]

My personal opinion is that no moment between Aerith and Cloud is totally romantic in Rebirth. I think it's pretty clear from his body and facial animations (which cost a ton of money and are therefore done with great care and vision) that he simply doesn't see her as a woman with whom he wants to share more than friendship.

However, I try to be fair to people who love Aerith and Cloud. And for me, trying to be as objective as possible, it's their hug in the church that's really romantic. He responds immediately to her coming into his arms, there's almost no hesitation. They exchange very few words. It's just peaceful and romantic.

Yea, I get what you're saying. Though the interpretation of the action of the scene and the intents of the character behind said action are different things. Though its possible for the scene to have a romantic air, what is Cloud's intent when he hugs Aerith? Is it a romantic gesture towards her (meaning Cloud returning romantic feelings towards her) or a response to comfort her?

 

[Eerie]

Address CA in what way?

With CT and ZA being clear pairs, CA won’t be considered romantic. If Cloud loved Aerith romantically I personally would like Tifa to move on because it’s not fair to her.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I'm not saying Sephiroth has to be behind every crisis. But, if one is going to say Sephiroth isn't gone post AC, it's odd that there is no actual evidence of him still being there.

There's no actual evidence of him being there, tis true. I'm not actually arguing that he definitely is, for the record, just that we don't know for sure.

Especially in the game that the main enemy wanted to suck up all the Lifestream of the Planet and fly off elsewhere, leaving said planet to die. Yet we don't see the man who has bent the Lifestream to his will at all? Not even a tincie wincie bit? Hmmmm, could it be he was actually gone for the final time and not coming back?

It could be, surely it could. It'd also be well within Sephiroth's character to arrogantly assume Cloud and company would deal with it and he didn't need to lift an ephemeral finger. I mean, they beat him, right? What chance do these DG chuckle-fucks stand?

Alternately he may be acting to stop this, and we just don't see it since we never really enter the LS in DoC.

Or as you said, despite his promise to never be a mere memory maybe he couldn't hang on through the beating Cloud gave him and dissolved into the LS for good.

Sure, but the back door can also be closed with no need to justify it further. Tis' all I'm saying

I agree, it's Schrodinger's door. Anything is up for grabs until it's closed or left open.

Address CA in what way?

With the words "sorry, but no" mostly.

 

[Yoru]

Yea, I get what you're saying. Though the interpretation of the action of the scene and the intents of the character behind said action are different things. Though its possible for the scene to have a romantic air, what is Cloud's intent when he hugs Aerith? Is it a romantic gesture towards her (meaning Cloud returning romantic feelings towards her) or a response to comfort her?

For me, as a convinced Cloti, he's simply comforting her. But I'd be willing to accept easily if someone in front of me promised me that he saw something romantic in it.

Whereas I fundamentally disagree with someone who sees the GS date as romantic. Whether it's Cloud's constant desire to keep his distance, the whole subtext with Zack that makes him question the fact that the girls have talked about it amongst themselves. The fact that he literally remembered the previous chapter that Zack is madly in love with Aerith and now he's supposed to be dead. Impossible to convince me that at that moment he has the slightest inclination to respond positively to her declaration of love. Especially when he's still under the influence of his SOLDIER + Bodyguard persona.

 

[imach0c0]

I think there is a fine line in Rebirth between Romantic and Platonic and the writing and depiction of both Cloud and Tifa and Cloud and Aerith's storylines do different things when it comes to the line

Strictly Romantic - Cloud x Tifa

The Line/Middle Ground - Cloud x Aerith

Strictly Platonic​

What I mean by this is that there are multiple moments in Rebirth that can't be considered anything but Romantic, a nearly kiss, confirmation of "mutual feelings" in the moment, staring at them with a smile on your face whilst they aren't looking and an actual kiss between Cloud and Tifa - as well as more - are moments that can't be misconstrued, aint nobody going to believe these are things you just do with someone if they are your strictly your friend. These are things you cannot just back up on now in Part 3, because people will start to question will hang on, you had Cloud and Tifa nearly kiss, as well as kiss (even if you say dates are non canon the general public won't see it that way) and then you just dump all that like they didn't happen just to make Cloud kiss/end up with Aerith at the end, what? That would be terrible storywriting and characterisation especially with what we know are big moments coming up between the two in Part 3.

However with Cloud and Aerith I feel like they straddle the line between Romantic and Platonic enough to the point there is no moment between them that I feel like "there is a point of no return now" depicting friendly interactions between them or Cloud being upset at her death is not Romantic, and things like the hand holding and "dates" can be considered romantic obviously but then others interpret them as comforting or platonic depending on the context, or even related to Zack and Aerith's memories of him (S5 date, depending on how you interpret this, i'd love the Directors commentary on this scene) Then of course there is the one sided confession from Aerith where she herself is conflicted on if she even likes Cloud romantically or platonically, you cannot get more middle ground if you tried. It would seem to me she'd like to have the opportunity to know which way she likes Cloud but never gets said opportunity for obvious reasons.

The question is -- if she never met the "real" Cloud, WHAT or WHO was she falling in love with? Especially when she still has lingering feelings for Zack. Could it be a mix of a zack projection and the Cloud she was trying to find?

 

[nars305]

I see your point. But at least at the church, she doesn't bring her ex directly into the discussion....She's conflicted sure, but she doesn't say to your face in the middle of your intimate moment "You know ? You really look like my ex! ".

You know as I re-watched scene to talk about it…Isn’t that strange? Lmao. You remind me of my ex who ghosted me and that’s why I was drawn to you but now I actually wanna get to know you…even though I was just in the place where he grew up and was looking for him…

It’s weird when you think of it all together lol.

 

[shady]

The question is -- if she never met the "real" Cloud, WHAT or WHO was she falling in love with? Especially when she still has lingering feelings for Zack. Could it be a mix of a zack projection and the Cloud she was trying to find?

I mean it's Cloud as he currently is, a mixture of everything he is before he is his completely his real self. We know she hasn't met the "real" Cloud because she says so herself, she's trying to find the real one, and is one of the "tragedies" of the OG in that she never got to meet the real Cloud

 

[Yoru]

You know as I re-watched scene to talk about it…Isn’t that strange? Lmao. You remind me of my ex who ghosted me and that’s why I was drawn to you but now I actually wanna get to know you…even though I was just in the place where he grew up and was looking for him…

It’s weird when you think of it all together lol.

I'm exaggerating a little on purpose, but it's as if Tifa in the middle of the date said "You know... when we met again in Midgar you reminded me of Emilio. So I was happy to find someone who reminded me of the village. But now that time has passed, I think you're more than enough for me."

It's just a love killer. And he's not even an ex, just a childhood friend. Compared to.... yeah no. I'm sorry but that's a no. This scene can't be romantic. Never.

 

[imach0c0]

I don't know if its just me but her mentioning Zack in that moment seems to imply that she is still thinking of Zack and she has not completely gotten over him. Perhaps one can argue she is partly projecting her Zack desires onto Cloud. Especially when she says: "just until the ride is over."

Even though she says Cloud is different and she is looking for the "real" Cloud.

 

[LNK]

There's no actual evidence of him being there, tis true. I'm not actually arguing that he definitely is, for the record, just that we don't know for sure.

Yeah, that's the tricky thing. Even when we do defeat the bad guy, the writers can always bring them back, so we never know for sure. Even after the release of the og FF7, there was always a chance he'd come back.

It could be, surely it could. It'd also be well within Sephiroth's character to arrogantly assume Cloud and company would deal with it and he didn't need to lift an ephemeral finger. I mean, they beat him, right? What chance do these DG chuckle-fucks stand?

Alternately he may be acting to stop this, and we just don't see it since we never really enter the LS in DoC.

That would be interesting. He'd be like the Higher Power of the Corporate Ministry. That would mean there has to be a follow up title to DoC. Has there been any word if that's a possibility?

I agree, it's Schrodinger's door. Anything is up for grabs until it's closed or left open.

Yeah, those doors are always open. Fictional characters are never truly gone

 

[SilverSisu]

The way I interpreted all 3 examples you mentioned was people comforting each other. The dream date could be romantic; if it was, it felt one-sided from Aerith's end. Cloud is hard to read during that whole sequence. Having said that, I struggle to see a romantic response from Cloud's end.

And in my opinion Aerith friendzoned Cloud.

Aerith: At least now, I know where you and I stand I mean. Thing is Cloud, I really like you.
Aerith: But then "like" can mean a lotta different things, can't it?
Aerith: 'Cause there's liking and then there's.... "liking"

i really don't see how this is anykind of declaration of love. If anything it's the opposite.

But of course this is only my interpretation.

 

[Yoru]

I don't know if its just me but her mentioning Zack in that moment seems to imply that she is still thinking of Zack and she has not completely gotten over him. Perhaps one can argue she is partly projecting her Zack desires onto Cloud. Especially when she says: "just until the ride is over."

Even though she says Cloud is different and she is looking for the "real" Cloud.

Now, to be a little more serious.

The purpose of this meeting is for Aerith to explain that up until now she's been playing a role of sorts. She's been in investigative mode, trying to figure out why he has so much in common with her ex. But now she wants to go beyond that. She's really interested in him as a person, not by comparing him to Zack. This is just the part where she comes clean and tells him the truth. A sort of starting point for telling Cloud, "Now I'm hitting on you and nothing else."

But even if it's well-intentioned, it's still not ideal for a romantic mood. Which is why, for me, this moment is anything but romantic. Especially when at the end she's more lonely and sad than ever and needs confort.

 

[LNK]

It’s weird when you think of it all together lol.

Which is why it's odd that people think the GS date between CA was romantic

 

[SilverSisu]

Whether it's Cloud's constant desire to keep his distance

Few Cleriths have said to me that the reason why Cloud keeps his distance is because he is nervous being around Aerith in such tight place and his heart is going doki doki.

They always bring up the Remake chapter info boxes that state that when Aerith catched Cloud who was trying to sneak away from her home and leaned towards him that caused Cloud's heart skip a beat and during the playground date the info box tells that even though their shoulders were barely touching his heart was throbbing.

They also love to bring up that Cloud was mesmerized seeing Aerith in her red dress and didn't feel anything when he saw Tifa.

What are your thoughts?

 

[imach0c0]

Which is why it's odd that people think the GS date between CA was romantic

Some of the discourse I've seen made for why this is romantic for CA is because some interpretations claim that this is a huge moment for Cloud because of his shy and reserved character. By Cloud holding her hand and looking at her through the corner of his eye, its indicating that he is showing that he too is mutually romantically interested in Aerith.

 

[imach0c0]

Now, to be a little more serious.

The purpose of this meeting is for Aerith to explain that up until now she's been playing a role of sorts. She's been in investigative mode, trying to figure out why he has so much in common with her ex. But now she wants to go beyond that. She's really interested in him as a person, not by comparing him to Zack. This is just the part where she comes clean and tells him the truth. A sort of starting point for telling Cloud, "Now I'm hitting on you and nothing else."

But even if it's well-intentioned, it's still not ideal for a romantic mood. Which is why, for me, this moment is anything but romantic. Especially when at the end she's more lonely and sad than ever and needs confort.

Interesting, I can see that. At this point, has Aerith gotten over Zack?

 

[Yoru]

And in my opinion Aerith friendzoned Cloud.

Aerith: At least now, I know where you and I stand I mean. Thing is Cloud, I really like you.
Aerith: But then "like" can mean a lotta different things, can't it?
Aerith: 'Cause there's liking and then there's.... "liking"

i really don't see how this is anykind of declaration of love. If anything it's the opposite.

But of course this is only my interpretation.

I agree.

Let's be honest. Why make it complicated when you could make it simple? If she was confessing her love she would just say it. No need to beat around the bush. Especially when it's your last chance to do it.

Fully confessing her feelings would require Cloud to provide a response. And they chose not to. Why ? Because Cloud response would not be positive. And obviously they're not going to impose rejection on her when it's her goodbye scene.

It's pretty telling where the game is aiming to. ZA / CT

 

[LNK]

Some of the discourse I've seen made for why this is romantic for CA is because some are interpretations claim that this is a huge moment for Cloud because of his shy and reserved character. By Cloud holding her hand and looking at her through the corner of his eye, its indicating that is showing that he too is mutually romantically interested in Aerith.

Sorry, but if one thinks Cloud was reciprocating romantic feelings towards Aerith in that moment, they are delusional. They would be ignoring everything that has happened between the characters up until that point.

What Cloud did for her in that moment, is what any decent human being would do for a friend. Nothing more, nothing less.