SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[imach0c0]

Surely she atleast knows Cloud loves/likes Tifa.

The reason I say this is because, as long as the translations were accurate, and I'm remembering correctly, Aerith told Cloud that lovers gave reunion flowers to each other, and that it would make a good gift for his girlfriend. She then sees the flower she gave Cloud in Seventh heaven and smiles.

Now I know that these are practically two different Aeriths, one knows the future to an extent and the other doesn't, but surely she still remembers these interactions, no?

Another reason it would be odd for her not to know, is that she's an emotionally intelligent person, so if Yuffie was able to pick up on those feelings and start teasing on basically the second day she's travelling with them, then surely Aerith also picked up on it.

On the basis if Aerith knew, why would Aerith pursue Cloud? Does that paint her character in a bad light seeing how she was close to Tifa?

Also - Aerith said she is ok that Cloud is not Zack. Though on the surface it looks like she moved on from Zack, it doesn't feel so, esp when she puts her hand to her chest when she mentions "him" (Zack). It seems Aerith was infatuated in that moment and wanted to enjoy what she was feeling with Cloud.

 

[nars305]

Surely she atleast knows Cloud loves/likes Tifa.

The reason I say this is because, as long as the translations were accurate, and I'm remembering correctly, Aerith told Cloud that lovers gave reunion flowers to each other, and that it would make a good gift for his girlfriend. She then sees the flower she gave Cloud in Seventh heaven and smiles.

Now I know that these are practically two different Aeriths, one knows the future to an extent and the other doesn't, but surely she still remembers these interactions, no?

Another reason it would be odd for her not to know, is that she's an emotionally intelligent person, so if Yuffie was able to pick up on those feelings and start teasing on basically the second day she's travelling with them, then surely Aerith also picked up on it.

This honestly is the stranger part of the LTD to me. Tifa and Aerith are best friends but Aerith is always pursuing Cloud and confessing. There’s no conflict of her caring what Tifa thinks or Tifa caring aside from the moment when they are leaving Kalm (the bunker).

 

[pxl_pushr]

On the basis if Aerith knew, why would Aerith pursue Cloud? Does that paint her character in a bad light seeing how she was close to Tifa?

Also - Aerith said she is ok that Cloud is not Zack. Though on the surface it looks like she moved on from Zack, it doesn't feel so, esp when she puts her hand to her chest when she mentions "him" (Zack). It seems Aerith was infatuated in that moment and wanted to enjoy what she was feeling with Cloud.

I think this is the nature of the odd spot Aerith finds herself in emotionally.

CC is so crucial for understanding her character because it contextualizes her state of emotional stasis until the plot of FF7 proper starts. 5 years left waiting/hoping beyond your better judgement that your person will come see you again in taxing. Tifa can relate to that to a degree but Shinra’s monitoring of Aerith kinda diverges that relatability.

Then in comes Cloud Strife, close enough to Zack to get her moving again, but not close enough to fill the Zack-shaped hole in her heart. It’s just enough to get her to the doorstep of destiny, to hear it beckon her to fulfill the planet’s memory.

All the while, she’s pushed and pulled by her head that tells her to stop dwelling on Zack and try out Cloud, and her heart that refuses to let go of Zack and be mindful of her new friend Tifa.

All of which would be nice to see hints of from her, but I’m assuming they may be saving it for the perspective change in part 3, where we the player get to see beyond Cloud’s perception more so than before? Hopefully, at least.

 

[abzy1200]

On the basis if Aerith knew, why would Aerith pursue Cloud? Does that paint her character in a bad light seeing how she was close to Tifa?

Tifa and Aerith are best friends but Aerith is always pursuing Cloud and confessing

I'll give Aerith the benefit of the doubt and say it's not in bad faith, and that she is just trying to sort her feelings out. A ghost of your ex will do that to someone. Especially when you were already a relatively lonely person before and after he came into your life.

Also - Aerith said she is ok that Cloud is not Zack. Though on the surface it looks like she moved on from Zack, it doesn't feel so, esp when she puts her hand to her chest when she mentions "him" (Zack). It seems Aerith was infatuated in that moment and wanted to enjoy what she was feeling with Cloud.

Just a quick thing to mention, on Aerith's GS date, and of course correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they kept the old localization of what is actually said by Aerith. She doesn't say "I want to be with you," she says "I want to meet you." Two very different sentences, especially accompanied by context, so it's very important to know the difference there.

Plus, I always felt that her line "Just until the end of ride," is basically her admitting that she knows how Cloud feels, it's sort of pleading, I guess?

It kind of implies Cloud wouldn't want it normally, and that she has to specify it's just for this short while.

This honestly is the stranger part of the LTD to me. Tifa and Aerith are best friends but Aerith is always pursuing Cloud and confessing. There’s no conflict of her caring what Tifa thinks or Tifa caring aside from the moment when they are leaving Kalm (the bunker).

This is another reason I hope the LTD will be over in part 3. I mean, it's already over, and was like a decade ago, but I mean so undeniably over that no gaslighting will ever be able to sway someone's opinion of it. I want irrefutable proof, the kind of proof that puts people spreading nasty things about the topic or characters in their place as nothing but toxic shippers, with no room for debate.

It does absolutely no favours for all three characters involved (four if we count Zack, he's collateral damage in all this.)

I mean, even if these games were a Clerithfest, would people really prefer to see Aerith as the kind of unkind, mean woman who would do something like that to her best friend? Because I saw on twitter somebody saying Aerith was "cunt" (in a positive way, in the sense that she is being a strong woman, because I'm pretty sure that's a way for people to use the word nowadays) for clinging to Cloud's arm and basically saying "mine!" in the ghost trainyard, right in front of Tifa. And it's important to note that this Aerith 100% does know about Tifa's feelings, since it's an Aerith who has knowledge of the future.

And before you say it, yes, I do know that the "mine!" isn't actually said there, it's only a localisation/translation, and that Aerith isn't actually that kind of person. It still doesn't change the fact that people were encouraging this kind of behaviour from her.

 

[imach0c0]

All of which would be nice to see hints of from her, but I’m assuming they may be saving it for the perspective change in part 3, where we the player get to see beyond Cloud’s perception more so than before? Hopefully, at least.

What do you mean by this?

 

[Eerie]

This honestly is the stranger part of the LTD to me. Tifa and Aerith are best friends but Aerith is always pursuing Cloud and confessing. There’s no conflict of her caring what Tifa thinks or Tifa caring aside from the moment when they are leaving Kalm (the bunker).

Aerith honestly puts off some people because of that. My husband has harsh words for her, a thing I didn’t think he would. But a lot of players thought ill of her because she kept pursuing Cloud even though she knew there was something between Cloud and Tifa.

I told a moot just yesterday that Aerith does need a lot of thinking over for people who don’t like this side of her to understand her character. But not a lot are willing to think about it. So I get it if they don’t like her because they see her actions and she’s never being called out for what she does. This actually is a problem because no woman was in the writing room to check, because a woman would’ve picked this immediately.

 

[pxl_pushr]

What do you mean by this?

Assuming we get a segment where other characters get to be the “main character” for a time, I wonder if we will get more insight into what the others were thinking throughout Rebirth.

There’s obviously conversations happening outside of Cloud’s earshot, so are some about his obviously deteriorating mental state? Do other characters bring up Aerith’s open flirting when Cloud ( and maybe Tifa ) aren’t around?

When Aerith is running around with Zack, is she going to talk through her emotions/thoughts at the time to help him understand where Cloud sits in her heart?

I’d bet money that section will get added time to do just that before we focus the camera back on Cloud. It’s a good chance to show players the slope he will need to climb to earn their trust back, and give Aerith and Zack some screentime before becoming arbiters of the greater plot.

 

[imach0c0]

Aerith honestly puts off some people because of that. My husband has harsh words for her, a thing I didn’t think he would. But a lot of players thought ill of her because she kept pursuing Cloud even though she knew there was something between Cloud and Tifa.

I told a moot just yesterday that Aerith does need a lot of thinking over for people who don’t like this side of her to understand her character. But not a lot are willing to think about it. So I get it if they don’t like her because they see her actions and she’s never being called out for what she does. This actually is a problem because no woman was in the writing room to check, because a woman would’ve picked this immediately.

Its even more confusing when you consider the remake like she is telling herself: "whatever happens don't fall in love with me, even if you think you have, its not real," -- Why does she warn herself and then still pursue Cloud?

In the GS date, it seems she seems to ask Cloud for a favour when she says: "just until the ride is over" as she holds onto his arm.

Then in the dream date, she says: "just play along" as she goes on a date.

Why is she pursuing him twice? Unless she is not connecting the dots because she is blinded by her infatuation.

 

[Rin]

Its even more confusing when you consider the remake like she is telling herself: "whatever happens don't fall in love with me, even if you think you have, its not real," -- Why does she warn herself and then still pursue Cloud?

Simple answer for this is that it's a different Aerith saying not to fall in love w/ her, so this wouldn't apply to Rebirth Aerith either way.

 

[imach0c0]

Assuming we get a segment where other characters get to be the “main character” for a time, I wonder if we will get more insight into what the others were thinking throughout Rebirth.

There’s obviously conversations happening outside of Cloud’s earshot, so are some about his obviously deteriorating mental state? Do other characters bring up Aerith’s open flirting when Cloud ( and maybe Tifa ) aren’t around?

When Aerith is running around with Zack, is she going to talk through her emotions/thoughts at the time to help him understand where Cloud sits in her heart?

I’d bet money that section will get added time to do just that before we focus the camera back on Cloud. It’s a good chance to show players the slope he will need to climb to earn their trust back, and give Aerith and Zack some screentime before becoming arbiters of the greater plot.

Yea, I don't know how they are going to handle the ZA stuff without it being messy. Before ZA have a reunion, Aerith's feelings towards Cloud and Zack needs to be clarified. Do you see ZA having more than one scene together having a conversation? Or more of an information dump in a single scene?

 

[imach0c0]

Simple answer for this is that it's a different Aerith saying not to fall in love w/ her, so this wouldn't apply to Rebirth Aerith either way.

Didn't the dev say that she was telling that to herself? What is the point of warning herself if there is no follow-up to it?

 

[abzy1200]

This is off topic, but if anyone here feels I have an interpretation/opinion that is any type of misogynistic, disrespectful, or politically incorrect, please feel free to call me out on it, because when discussing this topic, at it's core we are talking about relationships between men and women, and since I'm not very experienced with that kind of thing, sometimes I feel a bit out of my depth, and am scared that I might say something that could offend and or hurt someones feelings.

EDIT: Just to add a bit of context for why I felt the need to say this, in my last couple of posts I have been talking about stuff between women, and what might upset another woman, so as I've just said I feel a bit out of my depth, and I'm worried I might have said something incorrect about women.

 

[Rin]

Didn't the dev say that she was telling that to herself? What is the point of warning herself if there is no follow-up to it?

Yeah, she is talking to herself but she's not talking to her Remake/Rebirth self lol Confusing, I know.

 

[Eerie]

Didn't the dev say that she was telling that to herself? What is the point of warning herself if there is no follow-up to it?

It’s because our Aerith doesn’t know that’s the problem. As I said this stuff is just too complicated for players since most don’t follow everything the devs say or the Ultimanias. To me it’s really an error, even though you can guess that dream date Aerith isn’t our Aerith, then which is she?

 

[pxl_pushr]

Yea, I don't know how they are going to handle the ZA stuff without it being messy. Before ZA have a reunion, Aerith's feelings towards Cloud and Zack needs to be clarified. Do you see ZA having more than one scene together having a conversation? Or more of an information dump in a single scene?

I think you’ll get about as much of them as you got Zack in Rebirth. Wouldn’t be shocked if it opens with a happy reunion, but the end of their first scene is ominous.

Second scene can quickly hint that he’s been brought up to speed on what players know, and then anymore info dumps will also benefit us as well as Zack.

I don’t think it’ll take much to clear the air, especially when more crucial problems present themselves. Zack’s scenes all served the purpose of his pursuit of Aerith, so with them together the focus moves to whatever Aerith needs to do LS side.

 

[A-to-Z]

This is why I never liked the affinity system, because it muddles the characterizations for the players. The affinity system enables the players to make Cloud pursue the character they prefer, so we have to constantly remind ourselves how the character acts based on those points earned are dependent on Cloud’s actions. Besides the dream date, our Aerith only pursues Cloud if Cloud pursued her first. Aerith GS date only happens because Cloud chose to spend time with her multiple times beforehand, so she addresses the elephant in the room, which to her is the very nature of how Cloud carries himself can’t help but remind her of her first love. The thing a lot of people seem to miss is that even Aerith draws a line in the CA GS date; because the ambiguously romantic actions she initiated there should be contextualized by the line she says “just until the ride’s over.”

Regarding Tifa and Aerith, I always remind myself that there are no established boyfriend-girlfriend dynamics at this point of the story, not even between CT at least before the GS kiss, and this is because Cloud’s conflict regarding his identity and his false memories is the biggest obstacle to their romantic arcs resolving (for both women, CA/CT concerned). I imagine if such a discussion ever occurred between Tifa and Aerith, both of them would say “I like Cloud, but I’m not sure. He’s been acting strange.” Tifa would say he’s not acting like himself, and Aerith would say he acts too much like Zack to the point that it’s suspicious. Both of them should be confused about Cloud— and thus their own feelings for him as well.

The dream date happens in a world where Zack and Tifa both seem to not exist, (Zack might as well be still dead there) and it’s implied it’s not even our Aerith, even if it was a future Aerith, how would she know if Tifa became sure she loves Cloud at that point? Because Cloud is still wearing his Soldier persona. She couldn’t have known that they kissed too. (I believe the GS dates are inconsequential to the larger narrative, but still have accurate and canon characterizations) And let’s say she does know Cloud’s feelings for Tifa because of the flower scene in Remake part1, is it really wrong for her to double check whether or not Cloud has any romantic interest for her?

Don’t forget Cloud also allowed her to hold hands with him and lets her pose with him like a couple. Cloud doesn’t even reject Aerith, and whenever he does draw boundaries, it’s not as harsh as he did with Jessie, because I believe he has a deeper level of trust with Aerith. There’s a reason why Cloud himself doesn’t see Aerith’s actions as desperate or crossing the line (even if the players would).

I get how a lot of people who did the CT route where they kiss became uncomfortable with the dream date, (and I also think that sequence was written to evoke feelings of doubt in the players, “something’s not right”) but I’m just generally against putting Aerith under an unfair level of scrutiny when the characters themselves are depicted to be completely fine with her. If both Tifa and Cloud are fine with her, and every character in the story is too, why should I intentionally nitpick her actions? Don’t get me wrong, everyone is free to have opinions but I think assuming that all the information that is made available to the players is also available to the characters themselves is wrong.

 

[Rin]

To me it’s really an error, even though you can guess that dream date Aerith isn’t our Aerith, then which is she?

I realized while replaying last night that dream date Aerith may actually be an Aerith who escaped her fate like Zack did. It would explain why they're in such similar worlds but can't actually meet yet. When the black feather rains down from the sky during the date w/ Cloud in S5, Sephiroth says, "So this is where you've been hiding... In a world that has already accepted it's fate, just as you must." This line tells us a lot:

1. He's been searching for her, it's why we see him cross through Zack's world but she's not there obviously.
2. She's been actively hiding from him in these worlds and hasn't "accepted" her fate yet which means this Aerith hasn't died yet

This is a rather good explanation for why the devs refer to her as "an Aerith who is closest to the future" and not an Aerith who has already died. If she's in a similar predicament to Zack and living in some sort of limbo, this could be why her feelings are so stagnant and she's so confused because she literally cannot move forward at all.

Assuming dream date Aerith and resolution scene Aerith are the same (which seems to be the case), she's ruminating on the fact that she may have escaped death but she's lonelier than she's ever been before. "Everyone dies eventually..." may be her thinking that dying wouldn't have been so bad in the end if this is the only alternative.

Now as @Biscuit brought up a few pages back, the dream date could have actually happened before the resolution scene for this Aerith as in Rebirth, she's pondering on her feelings for Cloud but in Remake she seems rather sure that any romantic feelings between them aren't real at all and is reminding herself of this fact.

 

[imach0c0]

This is why I never liked the affinity system, because it muddles the characterizations for the players. The affinity system enables the players to make Cloud pursue the character they prefer, so we have to constantly remind ourselves how the character acts based on those points earned are dependent on Cloud’s actions. Besides the dream date, our Aerith only pursues Cloud if Cloud pursued her first. Aerith GS date only happens because Cloud chose to spend time with her multiple times beforehand, so she addresses the elephant in the room, which to her is the very nature of how Cloud carries himself can’t help but remind her of her first love. The thing a lot of people seem to miss is that even Aerith draws a line in the CA GS date; because the ambiguously romantic actions she initiated there should be contextualized by the line she says “just until the ride’s over.”

Regarding Tifa and Aerith, I always remind myself that there are no established boyfriend-girlfriend dynamics at this point of the story, not even between CT at least before the GS kiss, and this is because Cloud’s conflict regarding his identity and his false memories is the biggest obstacle to their romantic arcs resolving (for both women, CA/CT concerned). I imagine if such a discussion ever occurred between Tifa and Aerith, both of them would say “I like Cloud, but I’m not sure. He’s been acting strange.” Tifa would say he’s not acting like himself, and Aerith would say he acts too much like Zack to the point that it’s suspicious. Both of them should be confused about Cloud— and thus their own feelings for him as well.

The dream date happens in a world where Zack and Tifa both seem to not exist, (Zack might as well be still dead there) and it’s implied it’s not even our Aerith, even if it was a future Aerith, how would she know if Tifa became sure she loves Cloud at that point? Because Cloud is still wearing his Soldier persona. She couldn’t have known that they kissed too. (I believe the GS dates are inconsequential to the larger narrative, but still have accurate and canon characterizations) And let’s say she does know Cloud’s feelings for Tifa because of the flower scene in Remake part1, is it really wrong for her to double check whether or not Cloud has any romantic interest for her?

Don’t forget Cloud also allowed her to hold hands with him and lets her pose with him like a couple. Cloud doesn’t even reject Aerith, and whenever he does draw boundaries, it’s not as harsh as he did with Jessie, because I believe he has a deeper level of trust with Aerith. There’s a reason why Cloud himself doesn’t see Aerith’s actions as desperate or crossing the line (even if the players would).

I get how a lot of people who did the CT route where they kiss became uncomfortable with the dream date, (and I also think that sequence was written to evoke feelings of doubt in the players, “something’s not right”) but I’m just generally against putting Aerith under an unfair level of scrutiny when the characters themselves are depicted to be completely fine with her. If both Tifa and Cloud are fine with her, and every character in the story is too, why should I intentionally nitpick her actions? Don’t get me wrong, everyone is free to have opinions but I think assuming that all the information that is made available to the players is also available to the characters themselves is wrong.

How did you interpret the dream date in regards to Aerith's feelings? Or Cloud's feelings? What do you think the purpose was to have the Zack scenes cut back and forth between that sequence?

Also, do you think these are references to Zack or do they mean nothing?
1. The stamp dog having a similar likeness to Zack
2. Then Aerith mentions "place of memories," it cuts to Zack at the church
3. When Aerith takes the clip, she says: "I'll treasure this," (same line she says to Zack in CC)

 

[imach0c0]

This is why I never liked the affinity system, because it muddles the characterizations for the players. The affinity system enables the players to make Cloud pursue the character they prefer, so we have to constantly remind ourselves how the character acts based on those points earned are dependent on Cloud’s actions. Besides the dream date, our Aerith only pursues Cloud if Cloud pursued her first. Aerith GS date only happens because Cloud chose to spend time with her multiple times beforehand, so she addresses the elephant in the room, which to her is the very nature of how Cloud carries himself can’t help but remind her of her first love. The thing a lot of people seem to miss is that even Aerith draws a line in the CA GS date; because the ambiguously romantic actions she initiated there should be contextualized by the line she says “just until the ride’s over.”

Regarding Tifa and Aerith, I always remind myself that there are no established boyfriend-girlfriend dynamics at this point of the story, not even between CT at least before the GS kiss, and this is because Cloud’s conflict regarding his identity and his false memories is the biggest obstacle to their romantic arcs resolving (for both women, CA/CT concerned). I imagine if such a discussion ever occurred between Tifa and Aerith, both of them would say “I like Cloud, but I’m not sure. He’s been acting strange.” Tifa would say he’s not acting like himself, and Aerith would say he acts too much like Zack to the point that it’s suspicious. Both of them should be confused about Cloud— and thus their own feelings for him as well.

The dream date happens in a world where Zack and Tifa both seem to not exist, (Zack might as well be still dead there) and it’s implied it’s not even our Aerith, even if it was a future Aerith, how would she know if Tifa became sure she loves Cloud at that point? Because Cloud is still wearing his Soldier persona. She couldn’t have known that they kissed too. (I believe the GS dates are inconsequential to the larger narrative, but still have accurate and canon characterizations) And let’s say she does know Cloud’s feelings for Tifa because of the flower scene in Remake part1, is it really wrong for her to double check whether or not Cloud has any romantic interest for her?

Don’t forget Cloud also allowed her to hold hands with him and lets her pose with him like a couple. Cloud doesn’t even reject Aerith, and whenever he does draw boundaries, it’s not as harsh as he did with Jessie, because I believe he has a deeper level of trust with Aerith. There’s a reason why Cloud himself doesn’t see Aerith’s actions as desperate or crossing the line (even if the players would).

I get how a lot of people who did the CT route where they kiss became uncomfortable with the dream date, (and I also think that sequence was written to evoke feelings of doubt in the players, “something’s not right”) but I’m just generally against putting Aerith under an unfair level of scrutiny when the characters themselves are depicted to be completely fine with her. If both Tifa and Cloud are fine with her, and every character in the story is too, why should I intentionally nitpick her actions? Don’t get me wrong, everyone is free to have opinions but I think assuming that all the information that is made available to the players is also available to the characters themselves is wrong.

I believe in the TOTP novel, Tifa realizes admits she loves Cloud. Although Cloud has an identity crisis in remake/rebirth, I don't think that causes Tifa to not know how to feel about him. I think she has always loved him and that has never changed. However, its Cloud's identity crisis that prevents the CT relationship from moving forward, specifically from Cloud's end.

 

[Eerie]

I realized while replaying last night that dream date Aerith may actually be an Aerith who escaped her fate like Zack did. It would explain why they're in such similar worlds but can't actually meet yet. When the black feather rains down from the sky during the date w/ Cloud in S5, Sephiroth says, "So this is where you've been hiding... In a world that has already accepted it's fate, just as you must." This line tells us a lot:

1. He's been searching for her, it's why we see him cross through Zack's world but she's not there obviously.
2. She's been actively hiding from him in these worlds and hasn't "accepted" her fate yet which means this Aerith hasn't died yet

This is a rather good explanation for why the devs refer to her as "an Aerith who is closest to the future" and not an Aerith who has already died. If she's in a similar predicament to Zack and living in some sort of limbo, this could be why her feelings are so stagnant and she's so confused because she literally cannot move forward at all.

Assuming dream date Aerith and resolution scene Aerith are the same (which seems to be the case), she's ruminating on the fact that she may have escaped death but she's lonelier than she's ever been before. "Everyone dies eventually..." may be her thinking that dying wouldn't have been so bad in the end if this is the only alternative.

Now as @Biscuit brought up a few pages back, the dream date could have actually happened before the resolution scene for this Aerith as in Rebirth, she's pondering on her feelings for Cloud but in Remake she seems rather sure that any romantic feelings between them aren't real at all and is reminding herself of this fact.

Aerith in her Remake resolution is an Aerith who was pulled from the Lifestream, so dead.

I actually thought of her being dream date Aerith (before going to her resolution scene) but I’m not sure they actually match tbh. To me she looks more like our Aerith once dead. Like she too needs closure, not only this Aerith we know nothing about. It’s honestly a big disconnect to me because I’m not sure how I should care about this Aerith, all she did was create confusion and many fans hated what she did there. It just does look like a CA fanservice scene that ends badly, for all I know. Or it’s just a scene to explain Cloud’s feelings (since again this Aerith’s feelings, IDK why I should care if they have no bearing on our Aerith), to point out that Cloud’s feelings are platonic since there’s this big weird scene happening as our Aerith dies.

I just think overall it did a disservice to Aerith’s character and I say that as I am 100% persuaded that it’s that scene that made my husband dislike her so strongly.

 

[Rin]

Aerith in her Remake resolution is an Aerith who was pulled from the Lifestream, so dead.

I actually thought of her being dream date Aerith (before going to her resolution scene) but I’m not sure they actually match tbh. To me she looks more like our Aerith once dead. Like she too needs closure, not only this Aerith we know nothing about. It’s honestly a big disconnect to me because I’m not sure how I should care about this Aerith, all she did was create confusion and many fans hated what she did there. It just does look like a CA fanservice scene that ends badly, for all I know. Or it’s just a scene to explain Cloud’s feelings (since again this Aerith’s feelings, IDK why I should care if they have no bearing on our Aerith), to point out that Cloud’s feelings are platonic since there’s this big weird scene happening as our Aerith dies.

I just think overall it did a disservice to Aerith’s character and I say that as I am 100% persuaded that it’s that scene that made my husband dislike her so strongly.

But isn't Zack technically in the LS too even if though he escaped his fate? Because all these different possibilities exist within the LS itself, right? To me it's just easier to interpret these other-world Aerith's as being the same one, otherwise I'll start wondering what's the point of including a different Aerith in the first place.

EDIT:

Plus, we only see an alternate Aerith once per game so it's not like she has too much of a bearing on anything imo but if they're both separate Aerith's, it gets even more confusing for me.

 

[A-to-Z]

How

How did you interpret the dream date in regards to Aerith's feelings? Or Cloud's feelings? What do you think the purpose was to have the Zack scenes cut back and forth between that sequence?

Also, do you think these are references to Zack or do they mean nothing?
1. The stamp dog having a similar likeness to Zack
2. Then Aerith mentions "place of memories," it cuts to Zack at the church
3. When Aerith takes the clip, she says: "I'll treasure this," (same line she says to Zack in CC)

Someone else in this forum mentioned it earlier, but I’m adapting the theory that Aerith needed the dream date with Cloud to happen so she could fill up the white materia she eventually gives to him. I think Aerith does like Cloud romantically, but I think her line at the end “liking vs liking tells me that maybe her feelings weren’t as deep as she thought initially (this could be Aerith from COLW). She knows where they stand now. I’m no Cloud expert, but I think he was just letting himself get dragged around by Aerith. He is pretty good at play-acting. He barely knows what’s going on the entire time, but I don’t think he was annoyed per se.

I think it’s silly to deny the Zack references at this point because the dream date is within Zack’s Interlude. The game forces you to constantly think of him while it’s happening. Which means if we were to analyze it, we should be taking his character into account instead of coming to the conclusion that he doesn’t play a factor in it. (Maybe it’s because I love zerith, but I caught all the references immediately lol)

 

[A-to-Z]

I believe in the TOTP novel, Tifa realizes admits she loves Cloud. Although Cloud has an identity crisis in remake/rebirth, I don't think that causes Tifa to not know how to feel about him. I think she has always loved him and that has never changed. However, its Cloud's identity crisis that prevents the CT relationship from moving forward, specifically from Cloud's end.

Tifa is rightfully scared (to an extent) by Cloud’s Soldier persona, because he’s shown to have violent tendencies (and this was established in Remake Part 1 too, when they first encounter Johnny). I believe she’s always loved Real Cloud, but imo she has the right to have doubts about this current one, especially because he’s getting worse and tried to harm her, that means he could harm their other friends too. If her and Aerith were to talk about it, I don’t know if Tifa would explicitly say Love to describe her feelings for him, at least not right now, not at this point in the story. That’s why the CT GS date is nice because it gives Cloud the opportunity to reassure her.

 

[Eerie]

But isn't Zack technically in the LS too even if though he escaped his fate? Because all these different possibilities exist within the LS itself, right? To me it's just easier to interpret these other-world Aerith's as being the same one, otherwise I'll start wondering what's the point of including a different Aerith in the first place.

EDIT:

Plus, we only see an alternate Aerith once per game so it's not like she has too much of a bearing on anything imo but if they're both separate Aerith's, it gets even more confusing for me.

They’re technically not in the Lifestream but halfway through in fact. That’s what Aerith says to Cloud when describing the place.

I also am not sure that she needed to fill the white materia, since it’s hers and supposedly she’s never had the problem that our Aerith has with hers.

As I said the whole thing is confusing and probably didn’t do any good to Aerith as a character as a whole. It’s the scene that really crystallise a lot of difficulties to understand wtf is Aerith doing there; I saw someone who was like “Aerith I took you on a date at the GS and now you’re telling me there’s like and like? What?” And on the other side of the spectrum you have people who took Tifa to a date who don’t look too kindly at what Aerith is doing there. Overall too confusing as a goodbye scene and worst, it adds up to our Aerith’s goodbye and at some point you’re like “is that a joke, how many goodbyes Aerith needs?” Because that’s all you’ve been doing alongside fighting Sephiroth for hours.

 

[Rin]

Tifa is rightfully scared (to an extent) by Cloud’s Soldier persona, because he’s shown to have violent tendencies (and this was established in Remake Part 1 too, when they first encounter Johnny). I believe she’s always loved Real Cloud, but imo she has the right to have doubts about this current one, especially because he’s getting worse and tried to harm her, that means he could harm their other friends too. If her and Aerith were to talk about it, I don’t know if Tifa would explicitly say Love to describe her feelings for him, at least not right now, not at this point in the story. That’s why the CT GS date is nice because it gives Cloud the opportunity to reassure her.

Yeah, I genuinely don't think at this point in time Tifa would tell anyone that she has romantic feelings for Cloud. In ToTP she keeps all those thoughts to herself and becomes very introspective. Nanaki and Aerith will nudge her to continue telling the story because she gets so lost in her own head/memories. There's a lot she's not voicing out loud to others.

They’re technically not in the Lifestream hut halfway through in fact. That’s what Aerith says to Cloud when describing the place.

Gotcha, I guess I missed that or filtered it out idk lol there's a lot of information coming and going tbh and my brain can't keep up.
But I guess this still does mean that the dream date Aerith is one who hasn't died/one who has escaped her fate, which is interesting I guess since this all happens before the FC and the devs have made it sound like Cloud didn't actually breach fate, he's just imagining that he did (?) but I could be misunderstanding that, too.

As I said the whole thing is confusing and probably didn’t do any good to Aerith as a character as a whole. It’s the scene that really crystallise a lot of difficulties to understand wtf is Aerith doing there; I saw someone who was like “Aerith I took you on a date at the GS and now you’re telling me there’s like and like? What?” And on the other side of the spectrum you have people who took Tifa to a date who don’t look too kindly at what Aerith is doing there. Overall too confusing as a goodbye scene and worst, it adds up to our Aerith’s goodbye and at some point you’re like “is that a joke, how many goodbyes Aerith needs?” Because that’s all you’ve been doing alongside fighting Sephiroth for hours.

And yeah, I agree the multiple goodbyes were overkill and it's what I hate the most about the ending as a whole lol