SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[imach0c0]

Someone else in this forum mentioned it earlier, but I’m adapting the theory that Aerith needed the dream date with Cloud to happen so she could fill up the white materia she eventually gives to him. I think Aerith does like Cloud romantically, but I think her line at the end “liking vs liking tells me that maybe her feelings weren’t as deep as she thought initially (this could be Aerith from COLW). She knows where they stand now. I’m no Cloud expert, but I think he was just letting himself get dragged around by Aerith. He is pretty good at play-acting. He barely knows what’s going on the entire time, but I don’t think he was annoyed per se.

I think it’s silly to deny the Zack references at this point because the dream date is within Zack’s Interlude. The game forces you to constantly think of him while it’s happening. Which means if we were to analyze it, we should be taking his character into account instead of coming to the conclusion that he doesn’t play a factor in it. (Maybe it’s because I love zerith, but I caught all the references immediately lol)

Going into part 3, what would be a satisfying ZA reunion for you? Do you think it should be romantic or just them being in the same shot and then disappearing (like in AC).

 

[imach0c0]

Tifa is rightfully scared (to an extent) by Cloud’s Soldier persona, because he’s shown to have violent tendencies (and this was established in Remake Part 1 too, when they first encounter Johnny). I believe she’s always loved Real Cloud, but imo she has the right to have doubts about this current one, especially because he’s getting worse and tried to harm her, that means he could harm their other friends too. If her and Aerith were to talk about it, I don’t know if Tifa would explicitly say Love to describe her feelings for him, at least not right now, not at this point in the story. That’s why the CT GS date is nice because it gives Cloud the opportunity to reassure her.

True - I don't think she would outright admit what's in her heart out loud given the circumstances with Cloud. It seems there are parts of her that want to, but she hold back. (i.e. the way she clasps her hands in kalm and the GS date)

 

[abzy1200]

And yeah, I agree the multiple goodbyes were overkill and it's what I hate the most about the ending as a whole lol

There's probably going to be another goodbye too, because let's be honest here, the ending for part 3 will 100% be cut from the same cloth that Rebirth's was cut from. Cloud (maybe even the whole party) is going to fight alongside Zack and or Aerith against Sephiroth.

and as I've said before, that would only serve to make Advent Children feel redundant, so I hope they do something to fix that.

 

[Rin]

There's probably going to be another goodbye too, because let's be honest here, the ending for part 3 will 100% be cut from the same cloth that Rebirth's was cut from. Cloud (maybe even the whole party) is going to fight alongside Zack and or Aerith against Sephiroth.

and as I've said before, that would only serve to make Advent Children feel redundant, so I hope they do something to fix that.

Omg another 435335937 rounds of goodbyes. SOMEONE TAKE NOJIMA'S PEN!!

 

[abzy1200]

Omg another 435335937 rounds of goodbyes. SOMEONE TAKE NOJIMA'S PEN!!

It would feel so weird for Cloud to fret over letting Zack and Aerith down when he meets both of them twice after they've died, and fought alongside them, so I really, really hope it get's changed.

 

[Biscuit]

Now as @Biscuit brought up a few pages back, the dream date could have actually happened before the resolution scene for this Aerith as in Rebirth, she's pondering on her feelings for Cloud but in Remake she seems rather sure that any romantic feelings between them aren't real at all and is reminding herself of this fact.

Actually I do have a theory related to LSW. It could either be resolution> dream date. Or dream date> resolution. But I don't wanna talk too much about it because I'm not sure and feel that it's not really important to ponder right now about it. Regardless, she does seem sure these aren't real. But considering she got Friendzoned in dream date, it seems that cloud's sentiment wasn't clear enough. I wonder if she really understood where this stand?? Hence the "even if" is used instead of "even though" in resolution line. Former shows not being sure of his pov, the latter believing it's a thing. Like I said before, she has difficulty understanding what she even feels, and there are moments she is shown to not read him well. So yeah, ig she's unsure but will say this anyway.

That word choice of "even if" could also be just a writing thing, to build "suspense" for us the viewer, only to find out later as the viewer that it's more so that she really is ONLY talking to herself as it does not apply and No need for Cloud as he Never caught on any feelings since Remake lol. She talks to herself but might not even believe it yet by the time of resolution, so she kept telling herself that again.

A part of me believes it's resolution> dream date. Only because it's so much cleaner. She's confused/in denial in resolution but clarifies things out in dream date (although Only in terms of how mc stands, but not necessarily her side, she seems like she's still confused and unsure of her case) and realizes the only appropriate/ "fitting" thing she can say is to "not blame himself" instead of the resolution line, which also doesn't work/help because he does blame himself in AC and still ask for forgiveness anyway. I mean.. of course lol. Survivor's guilt about Zack and her makes sense lol. Tho part of me wishes she could have spoken to the others if she was giving him a special goodbye and statement.

anyway I Hope I'm making sense lol. If you read LSW, the stuff she says "she plans to do" seems similar to the stuff she does in resolution and dream date. I didn't see these in AC. But yeah, that's what I think. I just feel like the good bye and thank you in dream date was in finality. It seems rather weird that she already does that then feels the need to go back again in resolution?? And say some stuff that don't add up (for example, her resolution line Definitely Isn't necessary to mc, ONLY to her and she should know by that point?) It's kind of pointless if it's dream date> resolution?? Is what I mean.

so yeah, I'd like it if it was resolution> dream date (to be more specific: rebirth ending in cgi> LSW> resolution> dream date> some pondering probably met Zack> ACC).

anyway, that's just what I think.

 

[Eerie]

I think they put him fight alongside Zack and Aerith in Rebirth because it doesn’t fit in p3. I thought first they would help in p3, but since it’s been done, it won’t be done again. Each ending fight will be very different from the other 2.

In Rebirth, Cloud is not really there mentally; it’s something that will be very different in p3 and if you want ACC to happen then you don’t want true!Cloud, fully realised Cloud to fight alongside Zack and Aerith because you have to distort too much from the movie plot of him feeling guilty.

 

[Sacky]

It would feel so weird for Cloud to fret over letting Zack and Aerith down when he meets both of them twice after they've died, and fought alongside them, so I really, really hope it get's changed.

If they do AC's story needs to be changed to pure geostigma being the reason he leaves, but then that messes up the entire theme of that story. IDK advent children is the real mess here with the character progression; watching that movie again barely feels like the same characters as the remake trilogy. Im honestly hoping remake part 3 now has an ending that makes it a bad end and we just see them at the bar. The movie story isn't really good enough to keep it would need to be reworked and unless they want to do that as a dlc. Then idk since this is a retelling we don't even need it to lead into AC and AC can still remain relevant. Same with Marlene and Barett. Baretts story and character has recieved the biggest upgrade and i felt post FF7 OG Baretts story wasn't the best. Another problem is Dirge barely tells us what out favourite characters are doing apart from joining the final fight. Just give us the costumes, fenrir, Denzel, the bar and i will be happy. I do wonder if Marlene will even be part of the family dynmaic aswell Barett already talked about moving to Gongaga and having a farm. Ik it says link up to advent children but i still wonder if its worth actually keeping that story and not just tying its themes into part 3 in some way?

 

[Rin]

I think they put him fight alongside Zack and Aerith in Rebirth because it doesn’t fit in p3. I thought first they would help in p3, but since it’s been done, it won’t be done again. Each ending fight will be very different from the other 2.

In Rebirth, Cloud is not really there mentally; it’s something that will be very different in p3 and if you want ACC to happen then you don’t want true!Cloud, fully realised Cloud to fight alongside Zack and Aerith because you have to distort too much from the movie plot of him feeling guilty.

I, personally, don't think they'll be able to help themselves from doing this tbh.
I will be downright shocked if Zerith don't play a role in a ending and don't crossover w/ our party lmao

 

[Eerie]

Nomura’s words about him being satisfied that he could have Aerith die and not show up again in the OG told me we’d see Aerith again once dead - which we will, definitely. But it also shows me that the devs are satisfied with showing something once, that they prefer to be creative and explore new things instead.

We definitely will get an ending fight different from the other 2 games.

 

[A-to-Z]

Going into part 3, what would be a satisfying ZA reunion for you? Do you think it should be romantic or just them being in the same shot and then disappearing (like in AC).

Zack’s character was introduced in relation to the Planet, (there was a tweet about this made by the official ff7 account before the Rebirth release) so I think we’ll get a segment where he and Aerith are in a playable party together. ZA reunion should be sappy, tearjerking and 100% romantic. If not their reunion, then their ending would definitely be emotionally charged. (I expect they’ll both be confirmed dead by the end or their souls would dissolve. Both of them are not meant to live, and I say this as a fan.)

My crackpot theory is that Zack and Aerith will get to explore Cloud’s real memories, maybe they both want to heal him (and I mean not the Cloud with Tifa in the living world, one from a different world) and experience each other’s deaths. Aerith seeing how Zack really died, and Zack seeing how Aerith died. This happens completely separate from the big CT love confession in their LS scene.

Because that’s a sure way to get people crying, and a sure way to bring immediate closure to the years they spent apart, and that will motivate them to spend the rest of their time in the afterlife together. Aerith finally seeing how much Zack thought of her up until his last breath, and Zack seeing how he couldn’t be there to protect Aerith when she needed it the most and how much of a burden she needed to carry by herself.

It would also give Zack and Aerith an opportunity to see a version of Cloud who they otherwise would never meet, a Cloud who emulates Zack/Soldier, and real!Cloud, respectively. This can lead up to their roles in ACC, as his guardians. Yeah I know, it’s fanfic, but a shipper can dream.

 

[Rin]

Nomura’s words about him being satisfied that he could have Aerith die and not show up again in the OG told me we’d see Aerith again once dead - which we will, definitely. But it also shows me that the devs are satisfied with showing something once, that they prefer to be creative and explore new things instead.

We definitely will get an ending fight different from the other 2 games.

Different, yes. But ZA not involved in it....? I.... don't know lmao
If anything, it's different enough from Rebirth to have a 3 party of Cloud - Zack - Aerith vs Sephiroth since Rebirth did 2 v 1 w/ CA and ZC.

 

[SilverSisu]

I keep thinking of how Cloud’s real self says he cherishes everything and I think it may have been Nomura ( fact check me on this one pls ) that mentioned that the emotion they’re aiming for with Aerith is how you wish you had treated someone better after they’re taken from you.

While I don’t think Cloud had a crush on either Jessie or Aerith, I think his feelings posthumously are similar “I wish I had cherished them more while they were here”. Which is a very human thing.

Jessie is a great little callout because he doesn’t soften towards the three Avalanche members until the segment about Jessie’s dad. Seeing that she had something very personal invested in all this struck a soft spot with him.

Cloud did have a crush on Aerith. In remake chapter boxes state that Cloud's heart skipped a beat when Aerith leaned herself towards him. FF7 Remake ultimania has this to say:

Cloud arrives at the top [of the slide] and sits just a short distance from where Aerith is. Aerith closes the distance [between them] and smiles. Their shoulders just barely touching. Cloud’s face looks calm, [but on the] inside his heart was throbbing.

- Final Fantasy VII Remake Ultimania Plus

So we can see that he had a crush on her but like i said earlier having a crush and being in love are not the same thing. He had a crush on Aerith but it was just an infatuation and nothing more. His true feelings are for Tifa.

 

[ChaosandConfusion]

I'm kind of a dunce but if he has a crush and I keep seeing platonic love being brought up and with that ultmania quote then it seems as if he is interested in both of them in a romantic way.

 

[abzy1200]

A bit off topic, so sorry.

I see people saying that the Lifestream Sequence is a favourite scene of the devs, does anyone have a source for that?

I'm kind of a dunce but if he has a crush and I keep seeing platonic love being brought up and with that ultmania quote then it seems as if he is interested in both of them in a romantic way.

Probably, but there are two major things to factor in:

1. The SOLDIER persona he's wearing, he isn't really in a state where he can explore anything he feels properly.
2. The depth of said feelings. There's a difference between falling off a cliff as a young child, then joining the military to prove your worth as a 13/14 year old boy for someone and getting nervous because a pretty girl is showing interest in you.

 

[GamerSkull]

I'm kind of a dunce but if he has a crush and I keep seeing platonic love being brought up and with that ultmania quote then it seems as if he is interested in both of them in a romantic way.

Personally, I’m of the belief that he was attracted to Aerith in a romantic way early on, but it never progressed past a “somewhat interested” phase because she dies. Then, Cloud remembers how much he loved Tifa in the LS sequence and this love is stronger than what he felt for Aerith. However, she is still an important person to him.

Ultimately, I feel that Aerith would not have much of a chance romantically once Cloud remembered who he was but they would still share a deep bond (had she lived).

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Wife had a concussion scare back in college and I don't want to experience that or worry the wife, so, yeah.

I hope her experience was better than mine. Like actually being cared for and given medical attention. I got to continue working with all the disorientation and shit in full effect.

Let's do the LTD agaiiiiin...

Good times.

- Lifts it up -

Da-na-na-NAH!

Can anything, honestly? Scout's dumbassery is almost legendary.

It'd be legendary but... Soldier overshadows him.

It's funny though, I actually feel bad for Scout. His feelings for Ms. Pauling are actually very genuine and sweet, it's not his fault she's in the closet. And his eventual solution, to just wait patiently for her to like him is a lot better than you might expect from an arrogant, murderous front line merc. Though if he did try to force things I'm pretty sure Pauling would kill him... unless Heavy caught him first.

Oh, Manah. such wasted potential of a character in 2. This is contrasted to most of the rest who had no potential to begin with.

Everyone had potential in 2, it was just potential to be murdered by Caim.Urick lived up to his at least

Knowing his luck it will heal him through the burning.

Feels right, yeah.

Well, just don't do that, then.

Well when you put it that way

Maybe send him on a single's cruise.

Where he can meet a strong lady uranium miner.

Some people just want to watch the world burn because their girl wasn't endgame, Master Bruce.

I have a half-baked memory of a Joker crime spree centered around dissatisfaction with a comic book ship. Was that canon? Fanfic? It was entirely in-character for all involved but aside from that I can't remember.

They in effect stunt actual discourse and growth of though.

Sadly true.

The simpsons episode on the love triangle debate was odd. Homer wielded the Buster sword so naturally, though.

He's used to moving a lot of mass around, that helps.

I was aiming for a little bit sad and pathetic, honestly.

Sounds adorable, yeah

Not into one of the cars, though, the spokes. because the angle is JUUUUUUUUST right.

Exactly. Y'all have fun tryna' sap this'n here, ya yellow bellied scoundrel.

Medic :I filled it with this other experiment, and look, they are getting along like family!

Hojo: They're trying to bite each other's heads off.

Medic: Ah, you are an only child, then?

I didn't know I needed this crossover until now. I do wonder how long before Medic gets fed up and takes a bonesaw to Hojo mind you.

It might even not have been his fault.

Possible.

Scout has 7 brothers, IIRC. It is unknown if they share the same paternal parentage.

Ah yes, Scouts mad dog big brothers. I should have tossed the word "another" in there to account for them.

They talk about solving problems.

BFF Pyro and Engie makes me smile.

I can also imagine Engy and Barret comparing their gimmick arms.

Barret would love an upgrade that gives him mini-sentries. No joke.

One hit and you'll start seeing someone else's life.

Oh that's too good.

It's also a goal that keeps going. He can keep getting her attention, even.

Indeed, that'll keep him striving pretty much forever.

"Sephiroth, you can't keep obsessing on your nemesis. It's not healthy."
"You're one to talk. You're always thinking about your nemesis."
"I... -sigh- He's not my nemesis, he's my brother, and I am trying to atone for the things I did when I was being manipulated."
and so on and so forth.

Yeah that sounds about right.

Guess it's time to go bully Cthulhu into driving people mad again.

Sounds easier to bribe him to me FTAGHN!

Apart from the repeatedly punching gods in the face. But that's just sort of a staple of the genre.

Oh it certainly is.

I meant he's not thinking about making a new technique, period. He's pulling it out of his ass in the moment. He will then later need to figure out how the hell he did it.

Yup, I agree. He will figure it out, too, it's just too useful not to.

The Buddha nature used Bide.

Ahhh yes, the old tank n' spank. That works and is more appropriate for the thread.

Now I'm imagining the crew on the highwind using Rebirth mechanic shennanigans to generate limit for her. Yuffie just Brumal Forming in an ATB ward on the Sierra and checking her fitbit to get enough charge to send for Great Gospel

I love interpreting game mechanics too literally. It's silly and fine.

The main cast as a whole could use a lot of hugs.

No joke. Everyone just group trauma hug already. Yes including you Vinnie.

Now I want to see fanart of Aerith and Tifa in the dresses presenting at an award show.

Someone call Reeve, we got fundraising ideas for him.

It doesn't help her that she really wants to be racing on a different track, to stretch the metaphor further.

I like it.

Yeah, it's just people take it too far sometimes, and treat them like they're actually real. Snape and Sephiroth wives and whatnot.

You're not wrong. Though to be fair, Snape Wives and similar would be snake-fuckingly crazy even if they legit were real people.

Marlene acts like Tifa with a lot of Aerith's look. She's like a reverse form of the the combined character from early development.

I still like Marlene best when she imitates her dad, but this is still on point and cute.

Pretty sure he's an ongoing Hojo experiment trying to break free using the chadley cyborg/ bot/ thing to move about in the world.

That's how I read Chadley too.

 

[abzy1200]

Ultimately, I feel that Aerith would not have much of a chance romantically once Cloud remembered who he was but they would still share a deep bond (had she lived).

I share this sentiment aswell.

I never like when people say Clerith could have happened if Aerith never died, because I never liked the implication that came with it, that Cloud would just forget all his feelings for Tifa, which if I may suggest, shaped almost his entire personality and the person he is today. To me, it always reeked of subtle dislike for Tifa, that people refuse to see Tifa's importance to Cloud.

 

[Rin]

A bit off topic, so sorry.

I see people saying that the Lifestream Sequence is a favourite scene of the devs, does anyone have a source for that?

Probably, but there are two major things to factor in:

1. The SOLDIER persona he's wearing, he isn't really in a state wear he can explore anything he feels properly.
2. The depth of said feelings. There's a difference between falling off a cliff as a young child, then joining the military to prove your worth as a 13/14 year old boy for someone and getting nervous because a pretty girl is showing interest in you.

To add onto this, the devs have said there are certain things Cloud wouldn't do bc Zack wouldn't do them lol
For example, Zack wouldn't reject Aerith so Cloud doesn't reject Aerith. This is really important to note because it proves that his feelings for Aerith are based on his false identity and "not real" as resolution Aerith said.

 

[ChaosandConfusion]

I share this sentiment aswell.

I never like when people say Clerith could have happened if Aerith never died, because I never liked the implication that came with it, that Cloud would just forget all his feelings for Tifa, which if I may suggest, shaped almost his entire personality and the person he is today. To me, it always reeked of subtle dislike for Tifa, that people refuse to see Tifa's importance to Cloud.

I kind of take it as if Tifa knew Aerith had feelings for Cloud she would remove herself out of the situation because she's so selfless to a fault.

 

[abzy1200]

I kind of take it as if Tifa knew Aerith had feelings for Cloud she would remove herself out of the situation because she's so selfless to a fault.

I think so aswell, but that doesn't mean Cloud would easily get over his feelings for Tifa, if ever honestly, she had way too profound an impact on his life from the get-go.

 

[Yoru]

I kind of take it as if Tifa knew Aerith had feelings for Cloud she would remove herself out of the situation because she's so selfless to a fault.

But there's no Cloud without Tifa. Even with Aerith around, Tifa has to fix Cloud in the LS, otherwise Sephiroth wins and they're all dead.
And to fix Cloud, Tifa has to open her heart too. Because it's the fact that she opens up to him and makes him understand that she loves him as he is, without artifice, that gives him the confidence to repair himself. So she has to confess to him, even if it's only his subconscious in the lifestream. And I'm sorry, even if it's going to upset some people here, but the real Cloud will only be interested in Tifa at this point.

And that's the whole point of this game and where the silliness of this whole LTD situation comes from. The writing of Cloud's character is far too intertwined with Tifa for it to work any differently without changing the WHOLE story.

They're literally written like soulmates. Even more now with all the Compilation stuff.

 

[abzy1200]

They're literally written like soulmates.

This reminds me, I also dislike the idea the Cloud and Aerith are star-crossed lovers.

First, never mind the fact that stars are a Cloti motif, where does this idea actually come from (from Aerith dying obviously, but there needs to be more reasons to argue that feeds into a star-crossed lovers premise rather than creating it)? I would argue that everything fell into place perfectly so that Aerith and Cloud went on a big adventure together, and that there are way more obstacles for Cloud and Tifa to overcome than Cloud and Aerith.

Almost from the very start to the very end of the compilation, Cloud and Tifa face numerous obstacles that prevent them from connecting properly. Cloud and Aeriths "romance" can only happen in a situation where everything has gone to shit, Zack is dead and Cloud is emulating him. Had Aerith not seen Zack in Cloud would she have ever given him the time of day to get interested in the first place? I honestly can't say.

The only thing keeping Cloud and Aerith apart.....is the fact they love other people.

 

[Yoru]

I would argue that everything fell into place perfectly

Yup. And pretty much when this ship died to me when we learned with Crisis Core that actually... all this fated meeting and everything... was Zack's.

He's the other side of the star-crossed lover coin. Not Cloud.

 

[abzy1200]

And that's the whole point of this game and where the silliness of this whole LTD situation comes from. The writing of Cloud's character is far too intertwined with Tifa for it to work any differently without changing the WHOLE story.

Sorry for the double post, but yeah. The devs didn't intertwine Cloud and Tifa's character arcs only to have that connection be for nothing and leave Tifa hanging for the rest of her life because Cloud was fond of another woman.

It would just be so unsatisfying, you know?

EDIT: This is unrelated to what I said in this post, but I've also seen people saying that in Dirge of Cerberus, Cloud says "sumanakatta" to Tifa, a phrase only really used between romantic partners. Can someone confirm that he does say this in Dirge of Cerberus?