SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Yoru]

A little reminder for all the LS scene deniers in FF7

Someone who lacks self-confidence, or the will to maintain it, falls prey to Jenova cells. That's the way it works. That's why Zack emerges from 4 years of experimentations without a trace, compared to Cloud, who suffers from a sickly lack of self-confidence from the start.

So to save Cloud, so that he in turn can save us by killing Sephiroth, we need the real Cloud. A Cloud who knows he's not a SOLDIER. A Cloud who ACCEPTS that he's not a SOLDIER and that it doesn't matter.

And how do we get him to accept it? How was Cloud persuaded that he could be himself? Because the person he did all this for in the first place told him that she loved him without all the artifice. He doesn't need to be someone else. She's in love with him. So it's ok to be him. Because being him is being loved by Tifa. Literally his life goal.

 

[Eerie]

About that. The ring is not the only one shown. Denzel and Barrett seem to have one as well. So I don't think they're married but they're definitely a couple. I see it as since it's after the apocalypse they got together but marriage isn't exactly the first priority. But I would definitely say the narrative treats them as a couple that lives together unmarried that have been together and raise kids together to the point they might as well be married.

So they don't say she is his wife because she isn't but they do call her koibito. Someone's girlfriend and important woman.

Iirc Cloud gave his ring to Denzel so to me it’s really a family thing. Barret gets one as Marlene’s father, which I really like since he’s usually far away can I get my wish to see Barret and Marlene reunited as in living together post DoC?

 

[Sacky]

A little reminder for all the LS scene deniers in FF7

Someone who lacks self-confidence, or the will to maintain it, falls prey to Jenova cells. That's the way it works. That's why Zack emerges from 4 years of experimentations without a trace, compared to Cloud, who suffers from a sickly lack of self-confidence from the start.

So to save Cloud, so that he in turn can save us by killing Sephiroth, we need the real Cloud. A Cloud who knows he's not a SOLDIER. A Cloud who ACCEPTS that he's not a SOLDIER and that it doesn't matter.

And how do we get him to accept it? How was Cloud persuaded that he could be himself? Because the person he did all this for in the first place told him that she loved him without all the artifice. He doesn't need to be someone else. She's in love with him. So it's ok to be him. Because being him is being loved by Tifa. Literally his life goal.

View attachment 16378

I know lurkers will say Wow making Cloud all about Tifa. Yet we aren't the writers they did decide to make his motivation set on impressing the girl he had feelings for. There's evidence of this everywhere including this screenshot you posted. We are quite literally just trying to follow the story as accurately as possible

 

[Yoru]

I know lurkers will say Wow making Cloud all about Tifa. Yet we aren't the writers they did decide to make his motivation set on impressing the girl he had feelings for. There's evidence of this everywhere including this screenshot you posted. We are quite literally just trying to follow the story as accurately as possible

Yup. Not saying it's an healthy way of life. But that's how he's written. Even more now with 2000 gils novel.

 

[Eerie]

And oh yeah. Kiss in the LS, definitely. Because so many miss that it’s a love confession scene and refuse the romance in it even though Ultimania Omega mentions it’s where Cloud and Tifa realise their feelings for each other

 

[Sacky]

Yup. Not saying it's an healthy way of life. But that's how he's written. Even more now with 2000 gils novel.

Lucky for Cloud Tifa also has these feelings honestly.

 

[Yoru]

And oh yeah. Kiss in the LS, definitely. Because so many miss that it’s a love confession scene and refuse the romance in it even though Ultimania Omega mentions it’s where Cloud and Tifa realise their feelings for each other

Yeah but you know, he's in the lifestream, the place cherished by the Cetras. He's thinking about Aerith because he misses her so much. I think he's just using Tifa as a receptacle to actually kiss Aerith. It's actually a setup of the OG ending when Cloud holds Aerith's hand and throw Tifa in the crater hole.

 

[pxl_pushr]

People who deny the romantic angle of the LS segment have to answer the same question Tifa asks Cloud, “why did you want to be in SOLDIER anyway?”

You have to delete the last third of the segment from your memory to not get what’s going on.

 

[Sacky]

People who deny the romantic angle of the LS segment have to answer the same question Tifa asks Cloud, “why did you want to be in SOLDIER anyway?”

You have to delete the last third of the segment from your memory to not get what’s going on.

They say it's to be noticed and admired by the whole village. They must have missed the part he says You and Repeats it as does his shadow version. Or the fact he say's only your opinion matters and thinks everyone else in the village is stupid

 

[nars305]

Personally, I think people take this scene far too literally, when it's supposed to be much more spiritual and symbolic. They're just representations of the characters' psyches in the Lifestream overall. Sephiroth will always come after Aerith to kill her, because she's the last Cetra. The last Jedi. Whatever scenario the planet sets up, Aerith will die. And there's nothing we can do about it. And whatever the scenario, Aerith will always choose her friends, the survival of the planet, over her own happiness. I'm personally convinced that there aren't 15 versions of the character running around. They're just plunges, glimpses, snippets, of their souls as stored in the Lifestream (=all the worlds).

And the same goes for Zack. What do we see him doing in all his worlds? Braving death, standing up to fate to try and see Aerith again. And that's what he did in OG too. He could have gone into hiding, but no, he chose to go to Midgar, the headquarters of the people looking for him. It's who he is. A soul ready to do anything to find the person he loves.

So even with slight differences and some of them disapearing real quick in the LS, what we can see in other world are characters true to themselves.

And for the pick a canon ship argument.... they already kinda did it since 1997. Game mechanics allows you to make headcanons but the story doesn't.

I really think it’s a curse of the LTD that makes people miss a deeper meaning of the scene. I mean I am guilty of it myself until your last post on it.

 

[GamerSkull]

Not necessarily trying to call anyone out in particular and I know this is not true of everyone that feels this way, but I find it interesting that many of people that say there is no canon ship seem to also not see the LS sequence as romantic.

Well, if there are no romantic undertones to what Cloud and Tifa experience in the second half of the game, then how can there be no canon ship? Wouldn’t that just bring you to the claim that Clerith is the canon ship? How is it still neutral?

 

[Yoru]

People who deny the romantic angle of the LS segment have to answer the same question Tifa asks Cloud, “why did you want to be in SOLDIER anyway?”

You have to delete the last third of the segment from your memory to not get what’s going on.

Actually, in Japanese culture it's very impolite to address the person directly. So there's no way Cloud would address Tifa directly like that. The "You" is therefore intended for someone who is not present here. And who's most absent from CDs 2 and 3? Yes, Aerith. Aerith is the reason he joined SOLDIER.

Trust me, i'm kind of a japanese expert. I watched Evangelion.

I can already see the Clotis trying to deny it. Like they always do. So here's why



Like told in-game, he's doing it to be like Sephiroth. And it's a foreshadowing because if you look closely...



He was thinking about Aerith from the very start. She's the one he wants to be close to. Did you see the "like" just before Sephiroth ? If you use, as you should, the hair twins imagery we get the followong : "Like Aerith"
Checkmate. Cloud is in love with Aerith.

 

[abzy1200]

View attachment 16379

Actually, in Japanese culture it's very impolite to address the person directly. So there's no way Cloud would address Tifa directly like that. The "You" is therefore intended for someone who is not present here. And who's most absent from CDs 2 and 3? Yes, Aerith. Aerith is the reason he joined SOLDIER.

Trust me, i'm kind of a japanese expert. I watched Evangelion.

I can already see the Clotis trying to deny it. Like they always do. So here's why

View attachment 16380

Like told in-game, he's doing it to be like Sephiroth. And it's a foreshadowing because if you look closely...

View attachment 16382View attachment 16381

He was thinking about Aerith from the very start. She's the one he want to be close to. You can see the "like" just before Sephiroth. If you use as you should the hair twins imagery : Like Aerith.
Checkmate. Cloud is in love with Aerith.

 

[Sacky]

you seen this argument where they say the main trio is Aerith Cloud and Barret because they are framed in the central spot. Yet in remake it's red whos central. Plus Barret in remake has less playtime than Aerith and Tifa so I do not understand this argument at all.

View attachment 16379

Actually, in Japanese culture it's very impolite to address the person directly. So there's no way Cloud would address Tifa directly like that. The "You" is therefore intended for someone who is not present here. And who's most absent from CDs 2 and 3? Yes, Aerith. Aerith is the reason he joined SOLDIER.

Trust me, i'm kind of a japanese expert. I watched Evangelion.

I can already see the Clotis trying to deny it. Like they always do. So here's why

View attachment 16380

Like told in-game, he's doing it to be like Sephiroth. And it's a foreshadowing because if you look closely...

View attachment 16382View attachment 16381

He was thinking about Aerith from the very start. She's the one he want to be close to. You can see the "like" just before Sephiroth. If you use as you should the hair twins imagery : Like Aerith.
Checkmate. Cloud is in love with Aerith.

 

[Eerie]

There is no argument, only certain fans trying to imply Tifa’s role is barely better than an NPC since eons ago (but please give her scenes to Aerith).

 

[pxl_pushr]

View attachment 16379

Actually, in Japanese culture it's very impolite to address the person directly. So there's no way Cloud would address Tifa directly like that. The "You" is therefore intended for someone who is not present here. And who's most absent from CDs 2 and 3? Yes, Aerith. Aerith is the reason he joined SOLDIER.

Trust me, i'm kind of a japanese expert. I watched Evangelion.

I can already see the Clotis trying to deny it. Like they always do. So here's why

View attachment 16380

Like told in-game, he's doing it to be like Sephiroth. And it's a foreshadowing because if you look closely...

View attachment 16382View attachment 16381

He was thinking about Aerith from the very start. She's the one he wants to be close to. Did you see the "like" just before Sephiroth ? If you use, as you should, the hair twins imagery we get the followong : "Like Aerith"
Checkmate. Cloud is in love with Aerith.

Your logic is sound, and thus I must kneel

 

[Yoru]

View attachment 16383you seen this argument where they say the main trio is Aerith Cloud and Barret because they are framed in the central spot. Yet in remake it's red whos central. Plus Barret in remake has less playtime than Aerith and Tifa so I do not understand this argument at all.

So we can assume promotional material is important and therefore accept this one :



If you mix the two, every volcano on the planet wakes up, I'm told.

 

[GamerSkull]

It’s always really funny to me that people read into posters and covers this way.

But then, by this logic… the Rebirth cover shows Cloud and Zack. And then the alternate version of that is Tifa standing where Cloud stands and Aerith standing where Zack stands.

Edit: oh shit, @Yoru beat me to it.

 

[pxl_pushr]

View attachment 16386

So we can assume promotional material is important and therefore accept this one :

View attachment 16387

If you mix the two, every volcano on the planet wakes up, I'm told.

But don’t you see that street lamp on Tifa’s side? Those can be lit using gas, so it’s a subtle hint that she’s gaslighting Cloud.

I need to stop lol I’m starting to feel mean.

 

[Fakewings_]

Honestly, I have to force myself to review the dream date scene, to understand Cloud's attitude to Aerith's confession. From surprise, then shifting to confusion, mixed with a hint of guilt (SE did a good job conveying the character's emotions - shown through eye movements - looking down and shifting left, right, and mouth movements). It contrasts with the direct gaze and affirming words to Tifa: 'Not one bite.'
The camera also describes Cloud's face more when he embraces Aerith. It feels quite sad. Perhaps Cloud feels that something isn't right with Aerith, and he's trying to think of ways to comfort her.
If this scene is meant to depict Cloud reciprocating Aerith's feelings, then it should show either a tight embrace (like with Tifa in the Remake), or a verbal affirmation of emotions like Cloud did with Tifa (in the GSD). And of course, Cloud didn't do either of those things.
Despite the analyses above, I feel uncomfortable with this dream date, or more precisely, the way this scenario is constructed. Perhaps from my perspective, Cloud in the dream date has a (rather) contentious attitude, neither rejecting nor advancing.

 

[GamerSkull]

I really wish the Ultimania had shed more light on it. I think some elaboration would certainly help with how much everyone seems to read something differently from the Dream Date.

Although I will say, cutting away to Zack multiple times throughout it has to mean something. The writers made the deliberate choice to do that… rather than keep them separate.

 

[Yoru]

But don’t you see that street lamp on Tifa’s side? Those can be lit using gas, so it’s a subtle hint that she’s gaslighting Cloud.

I need to stop lol I’m starting to feel mean.

I see I'm not the only cook here.

Honestly, I have to force myself to review the dream date scene, to understand Cloud's attitude to Aerith's confession. From surprise, then shifting to confusion, mixed with a hint of guilt (SE did a good job conveying the character's emotions - shown through eye movements - looking down and shifting left, right, and mouth movements). It contrasts with the direct gaze and affirming words to Tifa: 'Not one bite.'
The camera also describes Cloud's face more when he embraces Aerith. It feels quite sad. Perhaps Cloud feels that something isn't right with Aerith, and he's trying to think of ways to comfort her.
If this scene is meant to depict Cloud reciprocating Aerith's feelings, then it should show either a tight embrace (like with Tifa in the Remake), or a verbal affirmation of emotions like Cloud did with Tifa (in the GSD). And of course, Cloud didn't do either of those things.
Despite the analyses above, I feel uncomfortable with this dream date, or more precisely, the way this scenario is constructed. Perhaps from my perspective, Cloud in the dream date has a (rather) contentious attitude, neither rejecting nor advancing.

That's why this scene is more symbolic than anything else for me. Aerith is a bit strange (but that's understandable when you know what happens to her in this game) but Cloud is even stranger. From cold, to pissed off (when he doesn't get what he wants at the store) to literally a kid asking his mom "Wow, what's going on there?! I want to go and see". Bro ! He's on the verge of hopping on the spot.

So, yeah. My opinion is that the whole dream is a glimpse into the psyche of the characters, Cloud having several (what a coincidence...).

 

[Sacky]

Someone just used the Wacdonalds interview as proof in 2024 i fear its over this fandom will never heal. If people still use the obviously fake Japan interview from early 2000's as evidence today. I must ask do people check whatever bullshit they find to see if it is factual, or if it fits there agenda, do they just accept it?

 

[GamerSkull]

Someone just used the Wacdonalds interview as proof in 2024 i fear its over this fandom will never heal. If people still use the obviously fake Japan interview from early 2000's as evidence today. I must ask do people check whatever bullshit they find to see if it is factual, or if it fits there agenda, do they just accept it?

People don’t fact check. They’ll typically accept any evidence that lines up with their interpretation and call it a day.

 

[Rin]

Did the devs ever say why they wanted to not leave things up to interpretation with the new stuff?
Because outside of the lifestream scene in og, I definitely thought clerith was pushed harder.
Things being spread across different medium doesn't help.(still need to play remake)

They've never fully stated why, no. But as a writer myself, I think Nojima is just tired of people misunderstanding his story, so he wants to clear the air.