SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryushikaze]

I want a Tifa v Sephiroth fight. Partly I think the reason we didn't get one in Rebirth is because Tifa would have actually made the fight way too easy with her extreme ATB generation and that fight is all about managing keep ATB up for clutch moments.

Maybe she and Aerith can team up while Zack and Cloud have a duo fight as well.

 

[Hellenic]

This is quite fair. I feel like there needs to be more for her in relation to Sephiroth as she's the other major character that he has directly wronged. However, it always seems like she kinda gets left out of the climactic confrontations with him.

I mean, I understand Cloud because of obvious reasons. And Aerith because Sephiroth literally murders her. But like... Tifa also lost her village, friends and family to Sephiroth and they don't ever explore it as much as I think they should.

That's why i hope they give Tifa the chance she deserves against Sephi too. Track record doesn't look great so far, so again, i'm not getting too hopefully, but it would be nice.

Like have Cloud and Tifa deal with whatever physical Safer sephiroth entity with a third party member while Zack and Aerith can have some battle of their own against him in the Lifestream if they are gonna go for a gauntlet of boss fights again for the last game. Then Cloud gets his one on one against him like in the OG to finish him off.

 

[abzy1200]

I kinda hope Tifa gets to kick Sephiroths ass in a meaningful fight in the third game honestly. Like not getting big hopes for that, but i'd prefer her being there in a decisive battle this time instead of just Zack and Aerith getting all of these.

At this point, we all know part 3's ending will have the usual timeline/lifestream stuff involved.

Being optimistic, I'm hoping that we will fight Sephiroth in two different worlds:

1. The party; Cloud, Tifa, Barret etc.
2. Zack and Aerith.

I would be upset if the party fought Sephiroth separated from Cloud again, he's their leader!

I want a Tifa v Sephiroth fight. Partly I think the reason we didn't get one in Rebirth is because Tifa would have actually made the fight way too easy with her extreme ATB generation and that fight is all about managing keep ATB up for clutch moments.

Maybe she and Aerith can team up while Zack and Cloud have a duo fight as well.

If a Tifa v Sephiroth 1-on-1 ever happens it would probably be before the lifestream sequence.

 

[Hellenic]

One thing that annoys me about the party lineups in Rebirth for the final fights is, why didn't the game let me finish off Jenova with the Avalanche trio after they did that cool combination move?

Instead they throw the cat and dog for me to finish her off. That just felt wrong to me in so many ways.

 

[Ryeleigh]

I want a Tifa v Sephiroth fight. Partly I think the reason we didn't get one in Rebirth is because Tifa would have actually made the fight way too easy with her extreme ATB generation and that fight is all about managing keep ATB up for clutch moments.

Maybe she and Aerith can team up while Zack and Cloud have a duo fight as well.

Since there are two Sephiroths running around (that's confirmed, right?) maybe it'd be something like Final Fantasy 2? I don't know if this was in the original NES version but in the Gameboy remake, there was a fight against the emperor's two halves in the living world and the afterlife. Or maybe it was more of a limbo than an afterlife?

 

[Ryushikaze]

One thing that annoys me about the party lineups in Rebirth for the final fights is, why didn't the game let me finish off Jenova with the Avalanche trio after they did that cool combination move?

Instead they throw the cat and dog for me to finish her off. That just felt wrong to me in so many ways.

The cynic in me says "Because you'd never use them otherwise" but also it should not have come at the tail (Ha!) end of the fight. The combo move should have been the finisher.

 

[Hellenic]

I want a Tifa v Sephiroth fight. Partly I think the reason we didn't get one in Rebirth is because Tifa would have actually made the fight way too easy with her extreme ATB generation and that fight is all about managing keep ATB up for clutch moments.

Maybe she and Aerith can team up while Zack and Cloud have a duo fight as well.

I guess the girls and boys duos could be an interesting idea too.

 

[Yoru]

Maybe she and Aerith can team up while Zack and Cloud have a duo fight as well.

OMG. I never knew I wanted that until now. Please SE. I want it to happen.

It's also funny because when I played Remake I thought Aerith would not pursue Cloud like at all. And in Rebirth she technically doesn't. At least not outside of optional scenes. In the main story she doesn't up till the dream date. So I think that also added to the confusion because we're not told of her feelings outside of the GSdate scene prior to the dream date. While in OG it is very obvious here it really wasn't.

I really hope one day we'll have some real explanations.

And you bring up a very good point. It's really strange to see that Aerith is pretty quiet about Cloud during the trip and then all of a sudden this scene comes out of nowhere. I don't even know if we're all getting worked up because we think it's a complex scene, when maybe it's just badly written. That would be surprising, since it's one of their strong points in Remake and Rebirth. But maybe they just missed the mark.

 

[Hellenic]

The cynic in me says "Because you'd never use them otherwise" but also it should not have come at the tail (Ha!) end of the fight. The combo move should have been the finisher.

Hey i enjoy using Red so i'm totally fine with that (less so with Cait, but he's not that bad overall to use). I just didn't like how they kept swapping the members constantly for seemingly no real reason besides just throwing the variety at the player.

I never liked how the final party lineup was decided in Remake either, but at least i could kinda force specific setups to appear there if i wanted to.

Also yes the combo should've finished the fight, agreed.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Since there are two Sephiroths running around (that's confirmed, right?) maybe it'd be something like Final Fantasy 2? I don't know if this was in the original NES version but in the Gameboy remake, there was a fight against the emperor's two halves in the living world and the afterlife. Or maybe it was more of a limbo than an afterlife?

The soul split in two was added for the GBA remake. He does become the emperor of Hell in the original, though.
FF2, the game where your best strategy is to run around fighting things naked and barehanded or with two shields and the only spells you ever want to cast are cure and frog.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Yeah

I really hope one day we'll have some real explanations.

And you bring up a very good point. It's really strange to see that Aerith is pretty quiet about Cloud during the trip and then all of a sudden this scene comes out of nowhere. I don't even know if we're all getting worked up because we think it's a complex scene, when maybe it's just badly written. That would be surprising, since it's one of their strong points in Remake and Rebirth. But maybe they just missed the mark.

I've been trying to be completely fair to this game and who knows I may be pleasantly surprised... It might even be my evil purist self being bias but... The writing in Rebirth is a tiny bit off. A bit shaky?

I'm trying very hard not to rage about Schrödinger's Aerith myself. I refused to spoil myself on that scene and still haven't because I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. But reading about what the Ultimania says about it I just.....

In the words of Cloud Strife:

".............................."

I hope I'm wrong and part 3 shows me this was just genius level writing I didn't anticipate and maybe my brain couldn't comprehend but in the meantime. WHAT are they doing?

 

[pxl_pushr]

Yeah
I've been trying to be completely fair to this game and who knows I may be pleasantly surprised... It might even be my evil purist self being bias but... The writing in Rebirth is a tiny bit off. A bit shaky?

I'm trying very hard not to rage about Schrödinger's Aerith myself. I refused to spoil myself on that scene and still haven't because I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. But reading about what the Ultimania says about it I just.....

In the words of Cloud Strife:

".............................."

I’ve kinda just resigned myself to not have a feeling about it until I can see the picture as a whole.

It’s definitely questionable in the moment, and I can’t see very many ways it can all play out to make it less so, but I’m open to being pleasantly surprised.

If it’s not serving a greater narrative purpose, then I’d be very let down

 

[Legend45]

I guess the girls and boys duos could be an interesting idea too.

Here me out for a second....

Sephiroth Vs Cloud and Tifa in a burned setting similar to Nibelheim. Sephiroth attempting to use PTSD against the both of them at the same time.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I have to remind myself that sometimes I just have to let it go, that sometimes people are going to find characters I grew up with fatally flawed no matter what, I see the discourse on the unmoderated sites like Aerith is a "two timing back stabbing skank" and Tifa "narcissistic selfish bully" and I guess I just have to let it be, that some will always see it that way no matter how hard Nojima writes otherwise.

I agree but letting it be is also fine.

People who think that way simply do not understand the story or the characters. They also don't understand the developers or Nojima if they think that is the vision for their story.

And so they do not contribute much of anything to the conversation.

But those in the conversation are smart enough to come to their own conclusions and if they follow the story they will quickly realize for themselves how little sense those opinions make.

So we can gently disregard those clearly warped opinions and continue our own conversation respectfully. Let them talk in their echo chamber. We know that's not the truth and so their opinion is just that an opinion. A terrible one. That opinion changes nothing in the end however.

They can keep thinking that and the story and characters still stay the same regardless. Even if people think others are going to get the "wrong idea" people in general are smart enough to figure out it's the wrong idea.

Trust me, no the majority of players of this game do not think those things just because the loud minority is extra loud.

All arguing with people who made up their minds does is lead to stress and a bad day. Leaving it be is sometimes just the best option.

 

[Someonesbunny]

Man, reading back is a trip. Are we playing with infinite subjectivity now? Did the book not exist because I decided not to read it? If a tree falls in a forest and a bear isn't shitting close to it, does Tifa really sleep next to Cloud in bed?

Also, for a group that's notorious for calling Tifa a "fanservice character," we really are sidestepping the fact that bringing Aerith back to life would be the ultimate act of fanservice to the detriment of the plot.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I was there to watch over her, so yes.

Having someone to watch over me is how I survived without further injury too. S'good.

Leading me into the next tangent, are you familiar with the wonderful world of Zelda (and other) randomizers?

I am aware of them, but wouldn't say familiar

True enough. In our imaginary crossover everyone thinks he's undergoing degradation, only to be told he's not even a Soldier, much less SOLDIER.

Don't say it too loud if he's nearby. You might explode.

I don't know if she's not into men at all, but she's definitely not into him.

Fair. Although she does seem to come around to genuinely liking Scout and enjoying his crazy shenanigans after a while... yeah he be friend zoned.

So you're saying they're all on the same level as faceless mook hordes?

They live in Drakengard world. Everyone is faceless moon hordes waiting their turn to die an ignoble death. Especially if you piss off Caim.

I insist. I know you love the taste of blood, even your own, but I do recommend against it.

I took so long to post that I've forgotten the context of this. I kinda think reading it like a non sequitur is hilarious though so that's fun.

How can you tell it's lady uranium?

I asked what the uranium's pronouns were, was told she/her

It fits him, but I can't recall an actual comic it's from. Probably fanfic

Yeah I looked into it a bit and it's probably fanfic. My hats off to the writer for the concept either way of course.

The Buster Belly.

Sounds like a meal you could order at 7th Heaven.

Now I feel like we need a "FF7 Cast as the TF2 mercs" fanart series. The problem is who should be who? Do we go for most appropriate, or most absurd? Is Aerith the Heavy? Is Cait Demoman because scottish and bombs, or Red because they share one eye and extreme rarity?

Nanaki's tail flame would have a lot of peeps try to cast him as Pyro. I'm thinking we should mix 'em up myself. I need Cloud with the medi-gun and rocket jumping Tifa.

Those are technically very different questions. For Medic the bonesaw is almost the same as a handshake.

True that, but there is a point where you can tell the diff between Medic cheerfully carving you up and Medical vengefully carving you up. Ask Classic Heavy, he knows.

I'd love to have it in game, too. Let something else draw aggro for awhile.

I love them for their subversion if expectations. You hear a smallish guy like Scout has seven huge, mean older brothers you think of course, he got fast to escape! But nah, he got fast so he could go where the fighting was before his seven big bros got there and hogged all the fun.

Using them to draw aggro is so Scout it hurts though.

If you try the Cosmo Kweh you'll feel like you're soaring a thousand feet above a resplendant canyon. Also that you're a bird.

That'd sell. Also try the Grass Lands Grass, makes you feel like a big man who could flip a mountain on your foes... Also makes you feel like you have a tiny head. No refunds.

I mean, it has so far.

Like I said, Tifa is always.

He's really a big pushover, when you get right down to it.

Liam used to have a cushy Cthulu bouncer, this makes me remember it and smile.

The "now how the fuck did I do that" training montage will be great. Maybe he can tech Yuffie to throw energy bolts while she gives him pointers on impossible boomerang behavior.

The back and forth annoying sibling energy will be great.

Indeed. Buddha, like Cloud, deals the spank back himself.

It works well.

It leads to the most absurd scenarios, yes.

The best.

The only one who doesn't need a trauma hug is... Reeve. And even then, he needs a "having to deal with the rest of Shinra" stress hug.

Reeve has his "wow I just let sector 7 die" trauma. It's at least enough for him to get vicarious hugs via Cait.

What do we call the awards? The Shinnies? The Lifeys?

That's a tough one. I'm open to suggestions cause all my ideas are falling flat.

They'd be crazy in a different way, like real people shippers.

Oh yeah, those people. Sticking with snake-fuckingly crazy.

Marlene's Barret impersonations are amazing, yes.

I wish Barret could a seen that, his heart would melt and burst simultaneously.

It's pretty undeniable given the scene you get when you do enough of his missions.

Oh yeah.

 

[Ryeleigh]

FF2, the game where your best strategy is to run around fighting things naked and barehanded or with two shields and the only spells you ever want to cast are cure and frog.

I actually liked FF2, lol.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I guess we just agree to disagree here. I just don't see the mind repair as a reciprocal romantic event. Their relationship is super important to the series but it doesn't have to be romantic in order for it be make sense.

Welcome! Your username makes me want to buy Pringles now lol. Excellent Taste.

Anyway I did want to comment as the least bias person in the room when it comes to the Lifestream Scene because as Erie and others here know I'm not a fan of that scene. I wrote a long essay style rant about it back in my blog days even. I also am a Clerith not a Cloti Ok Disclaimer over:

It is confirmed in the Ultimania to be about romantic feelings. Mutually reciprocated. This is not ambiguous. I can read Japanese enough to get by. That is literally what it says and a Japanese fan Clerith too also confirmed the wording used to me.

I definitely think me, who doesn't care about that scene admitting this (and becoming a traitor to my kin in the process) should count for something. But I always try to say things as they are and basically if you want proof it's in the Ultimania. In English it's described as True Desire Made Clear.

That's all I'm saying on that scene because again I'm not a fan of it and the rest of what I have to say leads into bias territory that is irrelevant to the conversation.

But I will say this:

FF7 is a franchise that heavily depends on media mix for its story. Media mix being when companies give you pieces of a story in different mediums in this case, the games, novels and Ultimanias an movie are all part of one compilation and so we're not going to get every answer in one place. Japanese companies do this a lot and the idea being what they add gives information and context to what came before. That's what the Ultimanias and novels do add context to the story of the game. And maybe even add things you don't see in the game.

So there you go. But that alone shows the devs did pick a lane, though in my opinion OG was more up in the air the story was never really like a Persona game however. I really love Persona but the love triangle here was a narrative one to push the mystery not the case in Persona.

Hope that gives some insight.

 

[imach0c0]

OMG. I never knew I wanted that until now. Please SE. I want it to happen.



I really hope one day we'll have some real explanations.

And you bring up a very good point. It's really strange to see that Aerith is pretty quiet about Cloud during the trip and then all of a sudden this scene comes out of nowhere. I don't even know if we're all getting worked up because we think it's a complex scene, when maybe it's just badly written. That would be surprising, since it's one of their strong points in Remake and Rebirth. But maybe they just missed the mark.

Rebirth also had a lot of character arcs to explore so maybe it was hard to balance it all. Cause the last 2 chapters were very Aerith focused and felt like an Aerith info dump. It kinda caught me off guard.

 

[imach0c0]

Yeah
I've been trying to be completely fair to this game and who knows I may be pleasantly surprised... It might even be my evil purist self being bias but... The writing in Rebirth is a tiny bit off. A bit shaky?

I'm trying very hard not to rage about Schrödinger's Aerith myself. I refused to spoil myself on that scene and still haven't because I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. But reading about what the Ultimania says about it I just.....

In the words of Cloud Strife:

".............................."

I hope I'm wrong and part 3 shows me this was just genius level writing I didn't anticipate and maybe my brain couldn't comprehend but in the meantime. WHAT are they doing?

I think you have been presenting fair arguments. Aerith's character arc and Aerith herself feels ambiguous. However, we still have a part 3 so my benefit of the doubt is this supposed to be mystery that will eventually pay off. Having said, its hard to overlook because of the contrast between Aerith's writing in Remake vs Rebirth. Because Remake had a lot of good setups that don't develop in Rebirth. Instead, we get hit with a scene from out of left field.

 

[imach0c0]

Yeah I don't think the reset is due to her memories because those were her memories of the future. However she probably lost context for a lot of things and she probably even forgot she was going to die and Sephiroth's plan and whatever was going on with Zack. I think the information she lost was context.

It's also funny because when I played Remake I thought Aerith would not pursue Cloud like at all. And in Rebirth she technically doesn't. At least not outside of optional scenes. In the main story she doesn't up till the dream date. So I think that also added to the confusion because we're not told of her feelings outside of the GSdate scene prior to the dream date. While in OG it is very obvious here it really wasn't.

I think what hurts my brain is in Rebirth, Aerith was acting kinda like a CT wingman. I was convinced of that idea after she teased Cloud about Tifa at the water tower. So when the GS date and dream date came happened, I was like: HUH? when did you start feeling like this?

TBH - it gave me a bad first impression. Why is she pursuing Cloud when she is pushing CT together? Sure, one can argue that she is having a love at at first sight moment, however it feels out of the blue because the player is not given any information on how it got to this point. It makes Aerith seem childish and kinda desperate. Given her feelings are meant to be complex, the way it was portrayed made it feel shallow. Its only after reflecting on the scene with the context of the FFVII compilation that I was able to connect the dots and understand what was actually happening.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I think what hurts my brain is in Rebirth, Aerith was acting kinda like a CT wingman. I was convinced of that idea after she teased Cloud about Tifa at the water tower. So when the GS date and dream date came happened, I was like: HUH? when did you start feeling like this?

TBH - it gave me a bad first impression. Why is she pursuing Cloud when she is pushing CT together? Sure, one can argue that she is having a love at at first sight moment, however it feels out of the blue because the player is not given any information on how it got to this point. It makes Aerith seem childish and kinda desperate. Its only after reflecting on the scene with the context of the FFVII compilation that I was able to connect the dots and understand what was actually happening. Its unfortunate because I assume a lot of players coming in do not understand the FFVII lore that extent, so it can be misinterpreted. I know its repeated a lot but to Aerith as a character, its a disservice.

I think it's because in Remake she had her future memories and here she lost context. Also I'm not sure how much she knows about Cloud and Tifa in Rebirth because for Cloud his feelings were "a secret wish, no one could ever know" and in Traces Of Two Pasts Tifa doesn't tell Aerith about her childhood with Cloud right? She reminices about it alone? Can someone confirm?

So I'm not sure how much Tifa revealed to Aerith if much throughout the course of the game and we just never see that? But Aerith seems like she is happy to see them together in Gongaga so I don't know. I have no idea honestly and I wish we had any more insight on Aerith and her feelings because clearly she has them. She falls for Cloud but they just kinda don't do anything with that till the end of her arc basically.

It could be she is just keeping her feelings to herself but I agree it didn't actually contribute to her character much because it's not even explained or shown until as I said her optional scenes. Meaning you miss out on so much context just by not doing all her quests and not getting her date. I just can't understand why they would choose to do it this way honestly.

 

[Sacky]

I think it's because in Remake she had her future memories and here she lost context. Also I'm not sure how much she knows about Cloud and Tifa in Rebirth because for Cloud his feelings were "a secret wish, no one could ever know" and in Traces Of Two Pasts Tifa doesn't tell Aerith about her childhood with Cloud right? She reminices about it alone? Can someone confirm?

So I'm not sure how much Tifa revealed to Aerith if much throughout the course of the game and we just never see that? But Aerith seems like she is happy to see them together in Gongaga so I don't know. I have no idea honestly and I wish we had any more insight on Aerith and her feelings because clearly she has them. She falls for Cloud but they just kinda don't do anything with that till the end of her arc basically.

It could be she is just keeping her feelings to herself but I agree it didn't actually contribute to her character much because it's not even explained or shown until as I said her optional scenes. Meaning you miss out on so much context just by not doing all her quests and not getting her date. I just can't understand why they would choose to do it this way honestly.

I don't actually know cause Yuffies date mentions that Tifa said she had a crush on Cloud whether Yuffie is telling the truth or not though is up for debate but if Yuffie was told then Aerith obviously would have aswell. She did describe the loner vibe aswell so I think Tifa has told them

 

[imach0c0]

I think it's because in Remake she had her future memories and here she lost context. Also I'm not sure how much she knows about Cloud and Tifa in Rebirth because for Cloud his feelings were "a secret wish, no one could ever know" and in Traces Of Two Pasts Tifa doesn't tell Aerith about her childhood with Cloud right? She reminices about it alone? Can someone confirm?

So I'm not sure how much Tifa revealed to Aerith if much throughout the course of the game and we just never see that? But Aerith seems like she is happy to see them together in Gongaga so I don't know. I have no idea honestly and I wish we had any more insight on Aerith and her feelings because clearly she has them. She falls for Cloud but they just kinda don't do anything with that till the end of her arc basically.

It could be she is just keeping her feelings to herself but I agree it didn't actually contribute to her character much because it's not even explained or shown until as I said her optional scenes. Meaning you miss out on so much context just by not doing all her quests and not getting her date. I just can't understand why they would choose to do it this way honestly.

Are you talking about the "First Love" conversation they mentioned in the boat to costa del sol?

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

Are you talking about the "First Love" conversation they mentioned in the boat to costa del sol?

Yeah in the novel itself Tifa doesn't tell Aerith.

But in Remake it's implied she does? Maybe. And that scene points to that but it's completely off screen and as Sacky points out Yuffie apparently knows. But it being offscreen makes it difficult to know the extent of what was said.

Did they trade stories about their crushes? Does Tifa know Aerith likes Cloud? Did Tifa deep dive into her past with Aerith?

It's a bit up in the air there.