SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Hellenic

Hellenic

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Hellenic
LunarTarotGirl said:
Yeah this I can see her as a model for the dress. However I wasn't sure because the conversation seemed to be questioning who is default Rosa and why Aerith is in other scenes hence my two cents.

I see the function of the play itself it as multipurpose basically. And yeah Cloud and Tifa in this sense would be "imposters" of the roles because they're the regular people who end up surviving and defeating Sephiroth while the "special people" die.

And Cloud finds out the mystery of Zack through meeting Aerith on Loveless Street who is dealing with his MIA. So like a bridge in the story sense. He is an "imposter Alphreid."
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Mostly just me observing the Event Square scenes and finding it weird that Aerith has the time to pull the Rosa and singing role all at once when they happen right after another, which prompted me to wish they just outright let all the girls play specific roles in the play too at all times.

It just feels wrong to me to exclude Tifa and Yuffie out of it when everyone else basically always plays a role. Rosa role does fit Aerith the most because of the Loveless connections though for sure.
 
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pxl_pushr

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Pixel
ChaosandConfusion said:
If you're only talking about the og I thought maybe he loves both or only Tifa. Retrilogy giving more nuance to things is giving just Tifa.

Yeah after I finished Rebirth and went on x it gave me whiplash because I know my comprehension skills are not that damn bad.

I knew it was some bs when a guy told me that and proceeded to drag Tifa so I never responded back.

Interesting.
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Thinking he loved both but had stronger feelings for Tifa is the fairest read of OG imo

Once CC came out though, it made certain lines from Aerith have more weight in my eyes ( her bringing Zack up at the playground, her reactions in Gongaga, and her bringing him up when alone with Cloud in GS specifically )

Re:Trilogy seems to be going the CT/ZA route with any feelings between CA being confused and bending platonic though no less strong. At least I hope they tie it up as neatly as that so only the most fanatical remain.
 
eleamaya

eleamaya

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The devs said the interpretation of Loveless Poem Genesis keep citing in CC is:
  • Prisoner = Genesis
  • The Wanderer = Angeal
  • Hero = Zack
The stage version only use Act II and III and it seems the three friends is one character, based on how Cloud play it in Gold Saucer. Kunsel texted Zack that he loved it btw.

This Cloud's early design is like Zack btw
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null

null

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null
abzy1200 said:
Normally yes, but I mean, Cloud displays more maturity than a 16 year old, so I don't think the mental age gap is really that big, despite the technicality of it. He is running a business and at the start of CoT he's the one encouraging Tifa that everything will be ok, that he'll be there to remind her of how strong she is, so it's not like he doesn't try to be supportive emotionally. It's only when he falls into his own bout of depression does this encouragement dissappear, but then again the depression is largely gone by the end of Advent Children.

Might I also add, that at the start of CoT, Cloud is very much trying his best to be supportive, and Tifa herself acknowledges that he is trying for her despite his glaring personal issues:


I'd also like to add that Denzel looked up to Cloud specifically. Tifa also thinks he resembles a young dad, so there's that aswell. He couldn't have been that terrible of a father figure.

Hell, even as a child he displays some emotional maturity/development beyond that of the other boys his age:

1. Even though Cloud knew the truth about what happened on the mountain, he chose to take the blame for it because he thought it would bring Tifa shame if he told the truth. He did this as an 8(?) year old boy. The other boys immediately lied to cover their own hides, and never owned up to it, at that.

Not to mention the bravery needed to follow her up the mountain, something the other boys also lacked.

2. Not seeing Tifa as a trophy to be won. Atleast one of the other boys sent Tifa a letter that implied he owned her.

tl;dr: Cloud doesn't get it right all the time when it comes to their relationship, but he tries, and it's not plausible for a relationship to be flawless, so I don't know where the idea that Cloud is necessarily an 'undesirable' partner for Tifa comes from, weird technical mental age gap or not.
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I thought Cloud was godawful as a father figure tbh. He was drinking alone, ignoring Marlene, hiding from Tifa, being negative in general, acting childlike (normally when a woman feels like a mother to her partner, that's a red flag, not an enjoyable new feeling). And all that was before bringing a sick orphan home - kind of an obviously bad idea? Then briefly acting like a normal father before going out for cigarettes. These are all less than mature things to do in my opinion.

But to your point, Cloud is generally shown to be mature. That's why I support glossing over his mental issues instead of continuing to spotlight them without taking them to their logical conclusions. FFVII tends to lurch between hyper realism and shounen anime logic, and I get whiplash from constantly re-adjusting my engagement to the appropriate level. (Same problem with Star Wars.) PTSD is a serious topic. It's not something that can be neatly solved at the end of a movie. Nor do I want to be reminded that Cloud is an awkward inexperienced dork in Tifa's resolution scene, because the story is going to charge ahead as if that weren't the case. I don't want to get hung up on these details, they're not enriching the world of FFVII for me, so just let Cloud be abnormally stable and mature in spite of everything and let's move on.
 
GamerSkull

GamerSkull

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pxl_pushr said:
Thinking he loved both but had stronger feelings for Tifa is the fairest read of OG imo

Once CC came out though, it made certain lines from Aerith have more weight in my eyes ( her bringing Zack up at the playground, her reactions in Gongaga, and her bringing him up when alone with Cloud in GS specifically )

Re:Trilogy seems to be going the CT/ZA route with any feelings between CA being confused and bending platonic though no less strong. At least I hope they tie it up as neatly as that so only the most fanatical remain.
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Yeah, I mostly agree with all of this.

Personally, I’ve subscribed to the belief that Cloud felt romantic attraction to Aerith but subconsciously he was drawn to Tifa. The fact that you can actually be mean to Aerith through dialogue if you want, but with Tifa the worst you can be is neutral is partially the reason I feel this way (I wouldn’t use it in an actual argument though).

However, a Cloud with his identity issues resolved unequivocally loves Tifa. And despite this, Cloud still cherishes the bond he had with Aerith even if it’s no longer a romantic bond.

Cloud’s statement of seeing Aerith again is more of a comforting statement, both to himself and to Tifa as they might die soon. So the implication is…”Don’t be afraid. Even if it’s the end, it isn’t truly the end. And we’ll see everyone we lost, including Aerith.” To which Tifa agrees. Because let’s be honest, her “Yes, let’s go see her” doesn’t really make sense if Cloud’s statement is supposed to have romantic implications.

And really, if it is meant to be romantic then I think Cloud is an asshole because… he’s literally telling a woman he knows is in love with him how he’s chosen Aerith, minutes before they might potentially die. What a nice guy!

This is why I can’t imagine the devs intentionally meant it that way. They don’t want to paint Cloud in this light, ever. So I prefer the “interpretation” that doesn’t make Cloud scummy.
 
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Maidenofwar

Maidenofwar

They/Them
I might be tripping but wasn't there both a blonde hair guy and a black hair guy during the Jessie version of the play? PS random nameless blonde guy I dunno why a certain someone couldn't be happy with the self insert, also Jessie gets a fair bit of content in this game after all, I was pleasantly surprised.
 
GamerSkull

GamerSkull

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ChaosandConfusion said:
I don't think I mentioned it yet but I acknowledge Cloti happening but I seriously don't want her with him.
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I want it to happen, I just don’t think it’s portrayed the best in sequel stuff. Which I’m hoping they correct.

And I think it should probably be less subtle.

That being said, separate from Cloti… I absolutely like Zerith so I wanna see that too. (I think some of us are accused of only like Zerith because it gets Aerith out of the way of Cloti but I find that unfair. I genuinely like Zerith).
 
Yoru

Yoru

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GamerSkull said:
I suppose that’s technically still up in the air.

They definitely confirmed mutual feelings though.
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Barret emerges from the bushes moments before the scene "Under the Highwind" to grab Cloud by the collar

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No seggs before the final fight CONFIRMED. Clerith is still running for the prize
 
Eerie

Eerie

Fire and Blood
ChaosandConfusion said:
I don't think I mentioned it yet but I acknowledge Cloti happening but I seriously don't want her with him.
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Tbh AC/C was written eons ago, before you were even born lol. The devs were young and experimenting, so yeah. I think what we could gather from post OG though was that CT are a happy family. Sure it was dysfunctional at a time but everyone worked towards their happiness.

As I said personally I would feel better with a new AC, given the depth of CT we’ve seen, to me ACC feels off. If they want to kill Sephiroth for good at the end of p3, be my guest and make something better as post game. I’m all for it!
 
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pxl_pushr

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Pixel
GamerSkull said:
I want it to happen, I just don’t think it’s portrayed the best in sequel stuff. Which I’m hoping they correct.

And I think it should probably be less subtle.

That being said, separate from Cloti… I absolutely like Zerith so I wanna see that too. (I think some of us are accused of only like Zerith because it gets Aerith out of the way of Cloti but I find that unfair. I genuinely like Zerith).
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I legitimately love Zack and all his himbo energy. Is he cheesy? Yup, it’s great. Is he a flat character? Not as flat as some may say, but I also think Jenova cells make you more so what you already are… it’s great.

Aerith I’m neutral on, but that’s mainly because I think she’s been powercrept into being boring imo so less her actual character and more how her character has been expanded on post original game.

So yeah, I think they genuinely work great together, and they’re fun to watch.

ACC genuinely hurt Cloud in my eyes, but I think that’s rooted in their nervousness to advance him ( and they should’ve, regardless of reception ). Cloud in CC and OG is great
 
Yoru

Yoru

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Rin said:
Sex is technically up in the air, yeah, but them literally sleeping together isn't since in both LA/HA you see them wake up together w/ Tifa's head on his shoulder. So either way, they spend an emotionally intimate night together.
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"But he's just comforting her... that's why he lets her on his shoulder... learn to read the mood bro"

me preparing my 8k footage of the GS Aerith's date

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Sacky

Sacky

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SackyBoy
GamerSkull said:
Honestly, Cloud and Tifa probably just played Monopoly together that night.
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Words aren't the only way to tell someone how you feel
"Tifa walks up to Cloud"
so i would really appericate it if we could finally have that tea party i wanted with you ages
ago, i made that promise so we could finally have one.
"Cloud realises there has been a misunderstanding."
"Cloud feels a sense of anti climax"

cloud nervous tifa.JPGcloud misunderstanding.JPG
 
Sacky

Sacky

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Eerie said:
Iirc one of the Ultimania quotes is that they communicated their feelings of desire without words lol. Go around that one (I think I have it at home so not sure of the source).
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The line “Words aren't the only thing that tell people what you're thinking,” right? That was quite a mature conversation for a FF game.

Kitase: But I remember having to get another version that was too intense toned down.

Nojima: The original idea was more extreme. The plan was to have Cloud walk out of the Chocobo stable on board the Highwind, followed by Tifa leaving while checking around, but Kitase turned it down. But even with the line in question, maybe at that time none of us thought it would be something so important (laughs).

For something to be more extreme, the original thing must be extreme XD so with all that said,
They held hands all night
 
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