SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryeleigh]

Ok true, his name WAS Sephiroth, you're right, you're right. But they're still wrong about "Aerith and Sephiroth are siblings" bc technically it would be "Tifa and Sephiroth are siblings"

And yeah, who knows, maybe they will say Vincent and Tifa are related but I think most people would hate that lmaoooo. The fandom's already pretty split on whether or not SE should lean into the idea of Vincent being Sephiroth's biological dad. I'm all for it though, not just because Hojo is ugly, but because it's more interesting for Vincent in general.

I know some people have said that SE just has "same face syndrome" and Sephiroth and Vincent looking alike in Rebirth doesn't mean anything ... buuuut I disagree. It's a bit too deliberate in my opinion. I also saw a theory about how Lucrecia's hyperfocus on Vincent could've led the Jenova cells into imprinting Vincent's looks onto her fetus--which would also work as an explanation without retconning the inclusion of Hojo's nasty genes, I suppose.

Lol, I just had the thought that if Sephicent was split into Sephiroth and Vincent then maybe that explains the "same face" that people keep talking about.

 

[Hellenic]

The only reason I can't really see Tifa being the 'canon' Rosa is because it means that Tifa's date happened that night, and we all know what that means. Revealing their feelings for each other is kind of supposed to be a lifestream sequence thing.

I mean, nothing with Tifa playing Rosa would contradict with the dates. You have Aerith doing Rosa on 4 of these dates and it's not her with Cloud on the dates itself on all of those afterall.

 

[Rin]

Lol, I just had the thought that if Sephicent was split into Sephiroth and Vincent then maybe that explains the "same face" that people keep talking about.

Hey, you never know lmao but I think that would be rather silly bc if anything it's Vincent and Tifa who should look even more alike now but they genuinely don't--colouring aside.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Alright, thanks for the inputs about Gongaga everyone =-)

 

[ChaosandConfusion]

Not sure this applies to you but for me, I thought it was obvious the game ended with C/T although I do admit it’s more subtle and less-in-your-face than C/A earlier in the game.

If you're only talking about the og I thought maybe he loves both or only Tifa. Retrilogy giving more nuance to things is giving just Tifa.

So when I went online to discuss it, I felt completely lost when I saw that C/A was the “intended couple”. Ultimately, I realized just how extreme the shipping random for FF7 is because… I was actually feeling gaslighted tbh.

Yeah after I finished Rebirth and went on x it gave me whiplash because I know my comprehension skills are not that damn bad.

Also, C/A is the “intended couple” but also… “it’s ambiguous”. Like… these two arguments don’t match.

I knew it was some bs when a guy told me that and proceeded to drag Tifa so I never responded back.

Here’s the early relationship chart if anyone wants to see.
View attachment 16634

Interesting.

 

[Yoru]

In French Tifa’s “don’t take them too” is very obviously a mistranslation. I mean it’s only Cloud who’s taken away there and it’s a conversation between Tifa and Sephiroth about Cloud. Not sure about the JP for Barret’s line but this time the FR really has a lot of mistranslations. I mean there are also lots of lines that are also much more pro-CT and are slightly mistranslated.

Missed your message.

I think the idea in our french version is to draw a parallel with what Tifa says to Cloud during their nocturnal "date" in Remake.

"They took everything from us...again"

So Cloud leaving with Sephiroth is also her last memories of Nibel. Her last anchorage to her past.

That's why the "them" is used imo. She loses Cloud. She loses all the rest.


Remake


Rebirth

 

[Hellenic]

Yeah this I can see her as a model for the dress. However I wasn't sure because the conversation seemed to be questioning who is default Rosa and why Aerith is in other scenes hence my two cents.

I see the function of the play itself it as multipurpose basically. And yeah Cloud and Tifa in this sense would be "imposters" of the roles because they're the regular people who end up surviving and defeating Sephiroth while the "special people" die.

And Cloud finds out the mystery of Zack through meeting Aerith on Loveless Street who is dealing with his MIA. So like a bridge in the story sense. He is an "imposter Alphreid."

Mostly just me observing the Event Square scenes and finding it weird that Aerith has the time to pull the Rosa and singing role all at once when they happen right after another, which prompted me to wish they just outright let all the girls play specific roles in the play too at all times.

It just feels wrong to me to exclude Tifa and Yuffie out of it when everyone else basically always plays a role. Rosa role does fit Aerith the most because of the Loveless connections though for sure.

 

[pxl_pushr]

If you're only talking about the og I thought maybe he loves both or only Tifa. Retrilogy giving more nuance to things is giving just Tifa.

Yeah after I finished Rebirth and went on x it gave me whiplash because I know my comprehension skills are not that damn bad.

I knew it was some bs when a guy told me that and proceeded to drag Tifa so I never responded back.

Interesting.

Thinking he loved both but had stronger feelings for Tifa is the fairest read of OG imo

Once CC came out though, it made certain lines from Aerith have more weight in my eyes ( her bringing Zack up at the playground, her reactions in Gongaga, and her bringing him up when alone with Cloud in GS specifically )

Re:Trilogy seems to be going the CT/ZA route with any feelings between CA being confused and bending platonic though no less strong. At least I hope they tie it up as neatly as that so only the most fanatical remain.

 

[eleamaya]

The devs said the interpretation of Loveless Poem Genesis keep citing in CC is:

• Prisoner = Genesis
• The Wanderer = Angeal
• Hero = Zack

The stage version only use Act II and III and it seems the three friends is one character, based on how Cloud play it in Gold Saucer. Kunsel texted Zack that he loved it btw.

This Cloud's early design is like Zack btw

 

[GamerSkull]

I can just imagine Genesis getting giddy to teach a college course on Loveless.

 

[null]

Normally yes, but I mean, Cloud displays more maturity than a 16 year old, so I don't think the mental age gap is really that big, despite the technicality of it. He is running a business and at the start of CoT he's the one encouraging Tifa that everything will be ok, that he'll be there to remind her of how strong she is, so it's not like he doesn't try to be supportive emotionally. It's only when he falls into his own bout of depression does this encouragement dissappear, but then again the depression is largely gone by the end of Advent Children.

Might I also add, that at the start of CoT, Cloud is very much trying his best to be supportive, and Tifa herself acknowledges that he is trying for her despite his glaring personal issues:


I'd also like to add that Denzel looked up to Cloud specifically. Tifa also thinks he resembles a young dad, so there's that aswell. He couldn't have been that terrible of a father figure.

Hell, even as a child he displays some emotional maturity/development beyond that of the other boys his age:

1. Even though Cloud knew the truth about what happened on the mountain, he chose to take the blame for it because he thought it would bring Tifa shame if he told the truth. He did this as an 8(?) year old boy. The other boys immediately lied to cover their own hides, and never owned up to it, at that.

Not to mention the bravery needed to follow her up the mountain, something the other boys also lacked.

2. Not seeing Tifa as a trophy to be won. Atleast one of the other boys sent Tifa a letter that implied he owned her.

tl;dr: Cloud doesn't get it right all the time when it comes to their relationship, but he tries, and it's not plausible for a relationship to be flawless, so I don't know where the idea that Cloud is necessarily an 'undesirable' partner for Tifa comes from, weird technical mental age gap or not.

I thought Cloud was godawful as a father figure tbh. He was drinking alone, ignoring Marlene, hiding from Tifa, being negative in general, acting childlike (normally when a woman feels like a mother to her partner, that's a red flag, not an enjoyable new feeling). And all that was before bringing a sick orphan home - kind of an obviously bad idea? Then briefly acting like a normal father before going out for cigarettes. These are all less than mature things to do in my opinion.

But to your point, Cloud is generally shown to be mature. That's why I support glossing over his mental issues instead of continuing to spotlight them without taking them to their logical conclusions. FFVII tends to lurch between hyper realism and shounen anime logic, and I get whiplash from constantly re-adjusting my engagement to the appropriate level. (Same problem with Star Wars.) PTSD is a serious topic. It's not something that can be neatly solved at the end of a movie. Nor do I want to be reminded that Cloud is an awkward inexperienced dork in Tifa's resolution scene, because the story is going to charge ahead as if that weren't the case. I don't want to get hung up on these details, they're not enriching the world of FFVII for me, so just let Cloud be abnormally stable and mature in spite of everything and let's move on.

 

[GamerSkull]

Thinking he loved both but had stronger feelings for Tifa is the fairest read of OG imo

Once CC came out though, it made certain lines from Aerith have more weight in my eyes ( her bringing Zack up at the playground, her reactions in Gongaga, and her bringing him up when alone with Cloud in GS specifically )

Re:Trilogy seems to be going the CT/ZA route with any feelings between CA being confused and bending platonic though no less strong. At least I hope they tie it up as neatly as that so only the most fanatical remain.

Yeah, I mostly agree with all of this.

Personally, I’ve subscribed to the belief that Cloud felt romantic attraction to Aerith but subconsciously he was drawn to Tifa. The fact that you can actually be mean to Aerith through dialogue if you want, but with Tifa the worst you can be is neutral is partially the reason I feel this way (I wouldn’t use it in an actual argument though).

However, a Cloud with his identity issues resolved unequivocally loves Tifa. And despite this, Cloud still cherishes the bond he had with Aerith even if it’s no longer a romantic bond.

Cloud’s statement of seeing Aerith again is more of a comforting statement, both to himself and to Tifa as they might die soon. So the implication is…”Don’t be afraid. Even if it’s the end, it isn’t truly the end. And we’ll see everyone we lost, including Aerith.” To which Tifa agrees. Because let’s be honest, her “Yes, let’s go see her” doesn’t really make sense if Cloud’s statement is supposed to have romantic implications.

And really, if it is meant to be romantic then I think Cloud is an asshole because… he’s literally telling a woman he knows is in love with him how he’s chosen Aerith, minutes before they might potentially die. What a nice guy!

This is why I can’t imagine the devs intentionally meant it that way. They don’t want to paint Cloud in this light, ever. So I prefer the “interpretation” that doesn’t make Cloud scummy.

 

[Hellenic]

The fact that they created Tifa to remain by Cloud’s side until the end because they killed Aerith though…

This reasoning for Tifas characters existence alone should've killed the LTD to be honest.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I might be tripping but wasn't there both a blonde hair guy and a black hair guy during the Jessie version of the play? PS random nameless blonde guy I dunno why a certain someone couldn't be happy with the self insert, also Jessie gets a fair bit of content in this game after all, I was pleasantly surprised.

 

[ChaosandConfusion]

I don't think I mentioned it yet but I acknowledge Cloti happening but I seriously don't want her with him.

 

[Yoru]

And really, if it is meant to be romantic then I think Cloud is an asshole because… he’s literally telling a woman he knows is in love with him how he’s chosen Aerith, minutes before they might potentially die. What a nice guy!

And slept with her hours ago.

So romantic.

 

[GamerSkull]

I don't think I mentioned it yet but I acknowledge Cloti happening but I seriously don't want her with him.

I want it to happen, I just don’t think it’s portrayed the best in sequel stuff. Which I’m hoping they correct.

And I think it should probably be less subtle.

That being said, separate from Cloti… I absolutely like Zerith so I wanna see that too. (I think some of us are accused of only like Zerith because it gets Aerith out of the way of Cloti but I find that unfair. I genuinely like Zerith).

 

[GamerSkull]

And slept with her hours ago.

So romantic.

I suppose that’s technically still up in the air.

They definitely confirmed mutual feelings though.

 

[Yoru]

I suppose that’s technically still up in the air.

They definitely confirmed mutual feelings though.

Barret emerges from the bushes moments before the scene "Under the Highwind" to grab Cloud by the collar



No seggs before the final fight CONFIRMED. Clerith is still running for the prize

 

[Eerie]

I don't think I mentioned it yet but I acknowledge Cloti happening but I seriously don't want her with him.

Tbh AC/C was written eons ago, before you were even born lol. The devs were young and experimenting, so yeah. I think what we could gather from post OG though was that CT are a happy family. Sure it was dysfunctional at a time but everyone worked towards their happiness.

As I said personally I would feel better with a new AC, given the depth of CT we’ve seen, to me ACC feels off. If they want to kill Sephiroth for good at the end of p3, be my guest and make something better as post game. I’m all for it!

 

[GamerSkull]

Barret emerges from the bushes moments before the scene "Under the Highwind" to grab Cloud by the collar

View attachment 16646

No seggs before the final fight CONFIRMED. Clerith is still running for the prize

Honestly, Cloud and Tifa probably just played Monopoly together that night.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I want it to happen, I just don’t think it’s portrayed the best in sequel stuff. Which I’m hoping they correct.

And I think it should probably be less subtle.

That being said, separate from Cloti… I absolutely like Zerith so I wanna see that too. (I think some of us are accused of only like Zerith because it gets Aerith out of the way of Cloti but I find that unfair. I genuinely like Zerith).

I legitimately love Zack and all his himbo energy. Is he cheesy? Yup, it’s great. Is he a flat character? Not as flat as some may say, but I also think Jenova cells make you more so what you already are… it’s great.

Aerith I’m neutral on, but that’s mainly because I think she’s been powercrept into being boring imo so less her actual character and more how her character has been expanded on post original game.

So yeah, I think they genuinely work great together, and they’re fun to watch.

ACC genuinely hurt Cloud in my eyes, but I think that’s rooted in their nervousness to advance him ( and they should’ve, regardless of reception ). Cloud in CC and OG is great

 

[Eerie]

I suppose that’s technically still up in the air.

They definitely confirmed mutual feelings though.

We why would Tifa be crushed the others saw them cuddling tho lol.

 

[Rin]

I suppose that’s technically still up in the air.

Sex is technically up in the air, yeah, but them literally sleeping together isn't since in both LA/HA you see them wake up together w/ Tifa's head on his shoulder. So either way, they spend an emotionally intimate night together.

 

[Yoru]

We why would Tifa be crushed the others saw them cuddling tho lol.

Well it's 1997. Being honest, the famous "hazukashiiiii....." works with just some cuddling.

Even tho we know what the draft of this scene was and yeah... they banged all night.