SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Sacky]

Talking about if they’ll incorporate Tifa’s past/ToTP-

In the Mideel part where she stays with Cloud, is there a lot of conversation they have there or is it just the place Tifa is left? Like do they hang out around with Cloud a lot or just the part where he is found?

If not, I think that’d be a nice space to incorporate those past memories she has with Cloud as he is in his mako coma. It’s always a thing when people are bed ridden and in a coma that their loved one talks to them.

she stays there and you can keep interacting with her and she just speaks some dialogue lines. But they can very much expand it maybe have Tifa do some missions around the area idk. The nurses all comment on how much she must love him to be there all day

 

[imach0c0]

Sorry, I skipped over that part. The Turks come to check up on Aerith, they talk a bit, misunderstandings, Zack actually initiates the fight. The turks aren't giving it their all but they are fighting back. Once Zack sees Aerith the fight stops and the Turks take the opportunity to go back into the wings.

All good, makes sense.

She's definitely happy, but she's also quite confused- I did not communicate this because it's not answered yet, this is an Aerith that has herself just come from the fight against Sephiroth in Rebirth. She finds herself led here by the Other Aerith, same as Zack did. In this take on the story the Aerith seen talking to Cloud during the credits would be a ghost (though it could also be a delusion, but I don't think so) rather than existing in a different world.

Interesting. I took this as Cloud's denialism + jenova shenanigans creating this projection of Aerith. However, I think the Aerith standing by the reunion flowers in the last shot as she says "goodbye" is the "real" Aerith in spirit form.

I think they should fight knowing there's a chance they lose their chance to be happy together, that they are fighting for what's right for their friends, because that's who the two of them are. Their deaths were senseless tragedy. Now give them happiness and togetherness and make them give it up for the right thing. Turn tragedy into cruelty.

This is an interesting way to go on about it. Build false hope to the player and rip it away.

Question --
Zack talks about wanting to take back his life and Aerith talks about defying fate and how the future is not set in stone. What is the point of introducing these ideas if both characters meet the same tragic end? Is there a bigger moral or narrative message at play?

 

[Maidenofwar]

I've seen some CAs who also don't want multiple endings, naturally chaos goblin that I am I'll go against the grain

 

[pxl_pushr]

All good, makes sense.

Interesting. I took this as Cloud's denialism + jenova shenanigans creating this projection of Aerith. However, I think the Aerith standing by the reunion flowers in the last shot as she says "goodbye" is the "real" Aerith in spirit form.


This is an interesting way to go on about it. Build false hope to the player and rip it away.

Question --
Zack talks about wanting to take back his life and Aerith talks about defying fate and how the future is not set in stone. What is the point of introducing these ideas if both characters meet the same tragic end? Is there a bigger moral or narrative message at play?

To me, if they do the whole “defy fate and make your happy ending”, that’s just doing what every jrpg does… which seems odd for an FF that experimented with subverting a lot of the trends of its contemporaries.

From what I gather so far, “defying fate” is less about changing the outcome and instead giving yourself agency in that outcome. Aerith doesn’t just die because fate ( aka The Planet/Planet’s memory ) says so, she dies because it lets her fight against Sephiroth in a way only she can for the sake of her friends.

So Zack may have an opportunity to live, but he’ll choose to be with Aerith. The result is the same, but the role you play in it can change. If that makes sense?

What role Zack plays in all this ( besides obviously reuniting with Aerith ) has me curious. Is he Aerith’s asset, or is he The Planet’s asset? Are those the same thing, or slightly different?

 

[Stiggie]

That would be the worst imo

I much prefer the “all roads lead to Rome” approach of the first half having some choice but the second half is a curated experience.

At most I can see them throwing in one final “choice” but the curser will fight you on it to simulate Cloud making his own decision.

I’d much rather a single ending to wrap this all end. Let us all rest lol

Do A "just monika" but with Tifa XD

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Cloud's a born shitkicker.

S'all I been sayin'

And if those people would have happened to suddenly have died 15 years ago, that would be pure not even coincidence.

Naturally, any other conclusion someone might draw is just silly.

They're blasting at bedrock to find a lower bottom.

It's a long way to go yet, but if they keep at it they gotta go up eventually.

Indeed we would.

Fair play is our friend.

Ironic hats for fire and explosives!

Well now I wonder what sort of hats the rockets, pipe bombs and sticky bombs would like.

Then of course there's the state of pure cold fury.

That sort of rage that I always think of as the "Oh shit Spidey shut up" kinda mad.

While one should not chase the high of a righteous fury eternally- that way lies the shitshow that is social media- there is something nice about unleashing it at just the right moment.

All things in moderation, and in their proper time.

It must suck for Gwen Poole, especially. She's not only aware of the fourth wall but also of how her personality changes. She's had to fight herselves to sort that bullshit out.
Even then, Pete gets it worse.

Well he is the soul of Marvel after all. When things suck for all, he takes it the worst.

Yeah. No dispute there.

I mean, barring the Spirit Sword/Sword of Hope Trunks needs a bigger blade but other than that it works nicely.

Having the Phoenix Force/ Actually being the Phoenix Force thinking it was Jean.
Comic Books!

Ahhh the good old Phoenix Force. Overcomplicating shut since it first appeared, but too awesome to ignore in spite of that.

Actually, I want to look at the four primary women Scott has dated in his life.
Jean Grey
A cosmic entity that decided it would be fascinating to be Jean Grey while it healed her ruined body after she basically gave her life for others.
A Clone of Jean Grey
Emma Frost.
He was also for a brief time having thoughts about Psylocke when she was in an Asian woman's body or whatever the situation there actually was.

Pslocke finally got her body back I hear. Which is funny to me cause I'm pretty sure she was trapped in an Asian super-ninja body longer than she appeared in original form, real time. As you said, comics!

Man has a type and that type is psychics.

You're not wrong. The man likes his ladies to know their way around the inside of someone else's head.

She was consistent and amazing the entire season long. Not even the Mayor had her presence and screen power.

Which is saying something cause Wilkins was also consistent, amazing, and able to whiplash between comical and genuinely threatening at the drop of a hat. Plus he had the genuine evil loved ones thing with Faith. And Glorificus still owns.

Almost like he DOESN'T want to die and reunite with her?

Madness, I know.

Actually, fun point of order, the conversation he has with Tifa at the end of the OG game is also referred to as a promise in a few Ultimania entries. Literally it's a promise to visit their deceased loved ones together. Cloud and Tifa made a promise to be together even in death.

This needs emphasis, and then QFFT everywhere.

Since we're on the topic of fourth wall breaks, I can just imagine Cloud actually reaching out and taking hold of the little selector Icon and wrenching it to the topic he wants to discuss. Someone else can even ask him what he was just doing. "Nothing, just dealing with something that's been bothering me for awhile now. Anyways, about [topic]..."

This has some mild Drakengard 3 vibes. If Zero shows up, we can all laugh as everyone including Sephiroth nopes the fuck out.

 

[Hellenic]

Kind of sad when some people seem to see it as worth less that Denzel was adopted by Cloud and Tifa. As if they couldn't love him like a biological son.

At the end of the day it's just a ridiculous excuse to find something to deny that they are together and have a family. Or perhaps some idiots out there actually think adopted kids are worth less than biological ones, who knows.

 

[Yoru]

At the end of the day it's just a ridiculous excuse to find something to deny that they are together and have a family. Or perhaps some idiots out there actually think adopted kids are worth less than biological ones, who knows.

No adopted kids are important. But only if Aerith is their mother. And Cloud their father.

 

[Hellenic]

I forgot if this was discussed, memory like a fish, or is in game since it's been a while but does Tifa think Zack's dead, does she remember Zack, I wonder if she told Aerith everything she could remember.

She wouldn't know what ultimately happened to him, couse how would she really? She never saw him again after the Nibelheim incident, but she does know that he didn't in fact die in the river like Cloud thinks.

 

[ViolaaFox]

No adopted kids are important. But only if Aerith is their mother. And Cloud their father.

It's fine they already have these blue baby things or whatever Twitter called them.

 

[ViolaaFox]

Do A "just monika" but with Tifa XD

I saw memes about Aerith being Monika.

 

[Hellenic]

It's fine they already have these blue baby things or whatever Twitter called them.

Also apparently the 2 small weapons we got in Rebirth are somehow Cloud and Aerith too, or some weird theory like that was existing now too. Didn't really look into it deeper though couse i couldn't care less to be honest.

 

[ViolaaFox]

Also apparently the 2 small weapons we got in Rebirth are somehow Cloud and Aerith too, or some weird theory like that was existing now too. Didn't really look into it deeper though couse i couldn't care less to be honest.

Yes, because we finally know that everything that is pink is Aerith. I think I have the links to some of these Tweets still on my phone it was wild.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Yes, because we finally know that everything that is pink is Aerith. I think I have the links to some of these Tweets still on my phone it was wild.

Pink > light red > red = ruby > Ruby Weapon

lol nah couldn’t be. Although…

But seriously Mideel foreshadowing of the obvious nature, but I do wonder if they’re gonna add another Weapon or two.

 

[Hellenic]

But don’t let this Glenn thing be the answer lol I really do not want that, even if I can see it written plain as day in front of me.

Yeah not a fan of this idea either, but man he looks so much like Cloud it's insane.

 

[Hellenic]

Pink > light red > red = ruby > Ruby Weapon

lol nah couldn’t be. Although…

But seriously Mideel foreshadowing of the obvious nature, but I do wonder if they’re gonna add another Weapon or two.

I don't think we need more than these 2 new ones and then the already existing ones. Baby whales being there for the Cloud and Tifa Lifestream shenanigans and us facing against the OG ones possibly under Sephiroths influence.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Yeah not a fan of this idea either, but man he looks so much like Cloud it's insane.

I’m hoping it’s his uncle. As unlikely as that is to be the answer, I’m hoping they take a left turn and it’s his uncle.

There’s likely 2 whales for Cloud and Tifa, one gets sliced by good old sushi chef Sephiroth, it spits the one out and the other swallows them so they end up in the same whale. Commence LS scene in haste.

 

[Hellenic]

I’m hoping it’s his uncle. As unlikely as that is to be the answer, I’m hoping they take a left turn and it’s his uncle.

There’s likely 2 whales for Cloud and Tifa, one gets sliced by good old sushi chef Sephiroth, it spits the one out and the other swallows them so they end up in the same whale. Commence LS scene in haste.

I wouldn't mind the uncle route probably.

I guess he might end up finishing off the one he failed to in Rebirth later on and that does sound like a smooth way of having them both be in the same memories. Do the good ole Yin/Yang pose between the two inside the Materia capsule in the whale while it's happening.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I wouldn't mind the uncle route probably.

I guess he might end up finishing off the one he failed to in Rebirth later on and that does sound like a smooth way of having them both be in the same memories. Do the good ole Yin/Yang pose between the two inside the Materia capsule in the whale while it's happening.

Reusing the ying/yang symbolism there would be a nice touch

 

[Hellenic]

Have people ever questioned Squal x Rinoa? As Rinoa was into Seifer before. Because I always had the impression that it's just CT that gets over overanalysed.

Because CT is the only ship in this series that gets this treatment, even though they undoubtedly have the biggest and strongest foundation for a couple in the series now too with all this material around it.

I don't think anyone bothers to argue about the Seifer or Squall stuff couse it pretty quickly shows that Seifer wasn't exactly important in the equation. Rinoa talked about having a fling with him one summer or something and then Seifer goes off his rocker and joins the Sorceress already. Didn't seem like he cared much about Rinoa in the first place anyway and it was all just one sided from Rinoa.

Problem is that FF7 pushes the idea of a love triangle way harder than any other game in the series so all this amount of obvious confirmation about the end pairing gets swept under the bus like it doesn't matter.

I will forever think the love triangle was a mistake and genuinely hope Square never does one again.

 

[Hellenic]

I don't actually know what the general stance towards Squall and Rinoa is, lol. I am vaguely aware that Snow/Serah is hated and apparently Serah had "more chemistry" with that guy from the second game, I guess?

I did personally like Serah more with Noel too over Snow, but ofc i understood that that was never gonna happen as Noel already had another person he loved too.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Because CT is the only ship in this series that gets this treatment, even though they undoubtedly have the biggest and strongest foundation for a couple in the series now too with all this material around it.

I don't think anyone bothers to argue about the Seifer or Squall stuff couse it pretty quickly shows that Seifer wasn't exactly important in the equation. Rinoa talked about having a fling with him one summer or something and then Seifer goes off his rocker and joins the Sorceress already. Didn't seem like he cared much about Rinoa in the first place anyway and it was all just one sided from Rinoa.

Problem is that FF7 pushes the idea of a love triangle way harder than any other game in the series so all this amount of obvious confirmation about the end pairing gets swept under the bus like it doesn't matter.

I will forever think the love triangle was a mistake and genuinely hope Square never does one again.

One of the reasons I want part 3 to finally close the book on this whole love triangle thing ( at least from the perspective of overall players ) is because I think what spawned it is academically interesting.

FF4 has a love triangle, but nobody really brings it up ( probably because it solves itself and isn’t a huge part of the story… but you could say the same about FF7 )

FF8 goes nuts with its romantic entanglements, but it gets overlooked and it’s arguably more complicated on that front than FF7.

It’s odd and worth exploring but it’s hard to do so because the discourse is still so loud about what the real story is.

 

[ChaosandConfusion]

One of the reasons I want part 3 to finally close the book on this whole love triangle thing ( at least from the perspective of overall players ) is because I think what spawned it is academically interesting.

Isn't it already declared over with articles being written about CT. Well, if/when they end it in a way that can't be denied, I hope Nojima makes his x account private because it's definitely gonna be a shit show.
I signed up for a summer psychology class to see if I can figure out the extremists in fandoms.

 

[Xannis]

Dunno. I'd say any debate about FF8 shipping doesn't happen because the end is fairly conclusive / straightforward. It just doesn't matter that there seems to be some kind of sexual tension between Quistis and Squall early in the story because the ending isn't very open ended.

If FF7 OG had ended with Cloud walking up behind Tifa as she gazed into the sky from the Highwind's deck and wrapping his arms around her while she smiled contentedly I highly doubt we'd be here today.

I feel the need to speak up for "normies" here who play this game (usually just once without a replay) without putting the thought into the writing afterwards, didn't look at Ultimanias etc..., and didn't watch AC. This is anecdotal (of course) but out of a small peer group I played OG with this was a basic breakdown. If it matters, we're talking about 10 people here. 9 guys (including myself) and 1 girl (who I ended up later marrying ).

• Everyone except myself did a single playthrough.
• Because of the "Love Point" system we ALL got Aerith on the GS Date. Note that of course we weren't aware of a love point system when we played. I was the only one that did a second play through exploring other dialog options.
• We all got the Low Affection Version of the Highwind Scene.
• About half of the group didn't stick around through the credits to get the Red XIII scene and were fairly sure initially that the whole party died on the Highwind escape pod. Once that got cleared up there was never a consensus on if humans survived. I was always of the mind that if Red survived the escape pod so did the others but that was pretty split.
• There was plenty of debate about which girl was better but these discussions were rarely centered around who Cloud would have preferred. It was almost always about which type girl the player preferred.
• Out of that group I'm the only one that kept up on the game afterwards. Some went on to play later installments of FF, others FF7 was their only entry. I'm also the only one that watched AC.
• Out of that group I was literally the only one to bring up the question of reframing Cloud's actions pre-LS sequence

Anyway, the general prevailing consensus among that group was simply that the ending wasn't clear and on the shipping front that the LA Highwind scene was ambigous enough for them to think nothing happened. I know the above isn't on point with the Remake/Rebirth theme of this thread but to bring it back to that I do hope they paint the end more clearly this time around.

 

[Ryushikaze]

S'all I been sayin'

I wonder if Cloud's susceptibility to Mako Poisoning might be related to his natural shitkicker-ness. He sucks up all the extra lifestream energy around him so readily, but that means when it's too abundant he is at risk faster.

Naturally, any other conclusion someone might draw is just silly.

I mean, they have had always just mysteriously died then. We're just making dumb jokes about it now.

It's a long way to go yet, but if they keep at it they gotta go up eventually.

I think being flash incinerated by the heat would stop things long before they passed the molten core.

Well now I wonder what sort of hats the rockets, pipe bombs and sticky bombs would like.

Jet pilot helmets, blast helmets, if we extend this beyond pure hats we can go with overalls for the pipe bombs and spider heads and feet for the stickies.

That sort of rage that I always think of as the "Oh shit Spidey shut up" kinda mad.

When Pete stops quipping, the fight is over. If he's still moving, that mean YOU are over.

All things in moderation, and in their proper time.

Finding the right moment to strike, and all.

Well he is the soul of Marvel after all. When things suck for all, he takes it the worst.

He's also often the sacrificial lamb. Though it did mean he got to sit out of Hero's Reborn after the Onslaught event.

I mean, barring the Spirit Sword/Sword of Hope Trunks needs a bigger blade but other than that it works nicely.

Like I said, no disputes.

Ahhh the good old Phoenix Force. Overcomplicating shut since it first appeared, but too awesome to ignore in spite of that.

Like Scarlet Witch in the modern era.

Pslocke finally got her body back I hear. Which is funny to me cause I'm pretty sure she was trapped in an Asian super-ninja body longer than she appeared in original form, real time. As you said, comics!

To clarify, Betsy Braddock who is now Captain Britain reformed her body and Kwannon who is now Psylocke also got her body back.
Also her first appearance was in '76 in her Brother's Captain Britain comic, and the appearance changeover happened in 1989, and she got her original body back in 2018. So yep, 13 years versus 39.

You're not wrong. The man likes his ladies to know their way around the inside of someone else's head.

He knows what he wants and he goes for it.

Which is saying something cause Wilkins was also consistent, amazing, and able to whiplash between comical and genuinely threatening at the drop of a hat. Plus he had the genuine evil loved ones thing with Faith. And Glorificus still owns.

Wilkins was I think the second best realized big bad of the show. And it was on another "this might be our last hurrah" season.

Madness, I know.

But how could such a thing be possibe? We need more epicycles!

This needs emphasis, and then QFFT everywhere.

I mean feel free to do so. I'm basically just repeating the sourcebook.

This has some mild Drakengard 3 vibes. If Zero shows up, we can all laugh as everyone including Sephiroth nopes the fuck out.

"I'm willing to do a lot of shit but I ain't fucking with those freaky space babies. I'm gone"

I’m hoping it’s his uncle. As unlikely as that is to be the answer, I’m hoping they take a left turn and it’s his uncle.

If Glenn has anything to do with Cloud, Uncle or Cousin should be as close as the relationship gets.

There’s likely 2 whales for Cloud and Tifa, one gets sliced by good old sushi chef Sephiroth, it spits the one out and the other swallows them so they end up in the same whale. Commence LS scene in haste.

If they do that, then Tifa's should be the one attacked, and Cloud should pull Tifa in, to echo the OG game.