SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryushikaze]

So while twitter is often a complete shithole, I have discovered something fucking fascinating.

And that's that in the official localization of Case of Tifa, Marlene says "Cloud and Tifa can be my parents for now." so even she is thinking of them as her (temporary) mom and dad.

I have a feeling the LS scene is going to take up an entire chapter and be more than a long long detailed conversation between Tifa and multiple aspects of Cloud’s consciousness.

I’ll be ( pleasantly ) surprised if they can resist shoving in some enemy encounters and a boss.

My suggestion for how to alleviate this is that during the Zack's Death flashback that should be very shortly after this, we have to play his final moments. That way you get a big fight moment, but it's not part of the LS sequence itself. The sequence itself already comes right off another large monster boss fight so that's not a problem.

 

[Eerie]

Really? Could I get a source or is that asking for too much?

I can't find it to save my life now

But I found some other explanations some people were asking in the Omega Ulti:


This is what happens when Tifa falls in the Lifestream in the OG.

And that's that in the official localization of Case of Tifa, Marlene says "Cloud and Tifa can be my parents for now." so even she is thinking of them as her (temporary) mom and dad.

I thought it was known tbh, I knew it because I reread CoT not so long ago xD It's part of the revised edition.

 

[pxl_pushr]

So while twitter is often a complete shithole, I have discovered something fucking fascinating.

And that's that in the official localization of Case of Tifa, Marlene says "Cloud and Tifa can be my parents for now." so even she is thinking of them as her (temporary) mom and dad.


My suggestion for how to alleviate this is that during the Zack's Death flashback that should be very shortly after this, we have to play his final moments. That way you get a big fight moment, but it's not part of the LS sequence itself. The sequence itself already comes right off another large monster boss fight so that's not a problem.

That’s actually very sweet. Gah their hodgepodge of a found family is sweeter than chocolate factory sometimes.

I have no doubt the LS sequence will be lovingly crafted. It’s something they’ve been building towards since Remake, I just hope they stick the landing and people actually pay attention this time.

Combat sections could be used to underscore certain aspects of Cloud’s consciousness ( have him randomly defend her, auto catch her for a quick recovery, kid Cloud toss her the equivalent of potion etc )

I just think it’d be a bit more potent if they held all that back and just… let it be more a place of exploration, like one step below a full on zone.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I can't find it to save my life now

But I found some other explanations some people were asking in the Omega Ulti:

View attachment 16895
This is what happens when Tifa falls in the Lifestream in the OG.


I thought it was known tbh, I knew it because I reread CoT not so long ago xD It's part of the revised edition.

I've just gotten never gotten around to reading the official translation and I spent so long with the old fan translations so it was a welcome surprise to see.

 

[Stiggie]

Isn't it already declared over with articles being written about CT. Well, if/when they end it in a way that can't be denied, I hope Nojima makes his x account private because it's definitely gonna be a shit show.
I signed up for a summer psychology class to see if I can figure out the extremists in fandoms.

Meanwhile I've also read an article talking about how Rebirth decided not to take a stance concerning the LTD. The brainrot is amazing.

and 1 girl (who I ended up later marrying ).

Don't you lord your happiness over us!!!!

Glenn will turn out to be Cloud's father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate

I understood that reference!

 

[Yoru]

Meanwhile I've also read an article talking about how Rebirth decided not to take a stance concerning the LTD. The brainrot is amazing.

Honestly, I'm getting to the point in my life where I don't think I care. Let them say what they want. All I know is that the game speaks directly to me. So keep making the best game you can make. I don't give a damn about the internet reading of the situation. I'll be in my corner enjoying it.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Honestly, I'm getting to the point in my life where I don't think I care. Let them say what they want. All I know is that the game speaks directly to me. So keep making the best game you can make. I don't give a damn about the internet reading of the situation. I'll be in my corner enjoying it.

View attachment 16896

How dare you have a healthy take. You can’t get out of the trenches when I just got here!

 

[Yoru]

How dare you have a healthy take. You can’t get out of the trenches when I just got here!

It's just that at some point it's pointless to fight against people who use the same methods as those who believe in the flat earth, that aliens are imprisoned in the desert or that vaccines are used to control us. Good for them if they prefer to tell themselves stories. I choose to live in the real world. It's not always pleasant, but it's the only one we've got.

I'm willing to debate for hours, as we do here, on many aspects of the story.

But talking to walls or just debunking? Yeah no, I'm too old for that crap lol

 

[MissMDusk]

Could I ask everyone how they felt when they watched the whole dream date/Zack's interlude for the first time?

I'm wondering what emotions the devs are trying to capture from the players, especially as they kept swapping between Zack, who's trying to save Aerith relentlessly, and the CA date. Like, on its own I don't think I'd feel as negative/conflicted about the scene than I do with Zack's presence. The message (I think they're trying to say) is not bad, and in fact it's all bittersweet imo. But as I kept seeing Zack... Hmm lol

Love to hear everyone's thoughts

EDIT: Changed 'find Aerith' to 'save Aerith'

Another edit sorry but I guess with the perspective of the whole church scene being meta, if I were to expand it to the date as a whole, it personally inclines me to believe that I'm supposed to feel uncomfortable. But idk maybe it's just my fondness for Zack getting in the way lmao

 

[abzy1200]

Wrong. That might be the point though; that everything feels wrong when Cloud and Aerith are acting like a couple.

As you said, Zack's presence is always looming over them during the dream date.

And there's also all that CT development earlier in the story. So it's got you feeling "huh? but what about Tifa?"

There's also the messy emotions exchanged at the end of it.

 

[Yoru]

Could I ask everyone how they felt when they watched the whole dream date/Zack's interlude for the first time?

I'm wondering what emotions the devs are trying to capture from the players, especially as they kept swapping between Zack, who's trying to save Aerith relentlessly, and the CA date. Like, on its own I don't think I'd feel as negative/conflicted about the scene than I do with Zack's presence. The message (I think they're trying to say) is not bad, and in fact it's all bittersweet imo. But as I kept seeing Zack... Hmm lol

Love to hear everyone's thoughts

EDIT: Changed 'find Aerith' to 'save Aerith'

Another edit sorry but I guess with the perspective of the whole church scene being meta, if I were to expand it to the date as a whole, it personally inclines me to believe that I'm supposed to feel uncomfortable. But idk maybe it's just my fondness for Zack getting in the way lmao

This is my downside of FF7 Rebirth.

I don't understand this scene, and just when I think I do, someone points out the message it sends to see Aerith "having a good time" while Zack, who's trying to save her on the other side, dies over and over again, and I find myself finding this scene disgusting.

If it was to make us understand that Aerith has moved on. It doesn't. If it was to make us understand that she still loves Zack, I think there was a better way to respect his memory.

And I still don't understand this Cloud coming out of nowhere. And no, sorry, I don't believe in the Real Cloud theory with Aerith. Because the Real Cloud isn't a 10-year-old at the amusement park.

 

[Empyrea]

That in the grand scheme of things, it felt a little forced. Why have this date? The Sleeping Forest dream in OG was fine, granted that's going off my recollections of that other game.

I liked the Zack parts just cause it's Zack, but the date felt so out of place at this point. Aerith also starts the date off by telling Cloud to just play along before they left her house, too, which...I still don't know how I feel about. But the biggest thing that gets me here is how the Aerith here isn't "our" Aerith. And I don't care about this Aerith.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Could I ask everyone how they felt when they watched the whole dream date/Zack's interlude for the first time?

I'm wondering what emotions the devs are trying to capture from the players, especially as they kept swapping between Zack, who's trying to save Aerith relentlessly, and the CA date. Like, on its own I don't think I'd feel as negative/conflicted about the scene than I do with Zack's presence. The message (I think they're trying to say) is not bad, and in fact it's all bittersweet imo. But as I kept seeing Zack... Hmm lol

Love to hear everyone's thoughts

EDIT: Changed 'find Aerith' to 'save Aerith'

Another edit sorry but I guess with the perspective of the whole church scene being meta, if I were to expand it to the date as a whole, it personally inclines me to believe that I'm supposed to feel uncomfortable. But idk maybe it's just my fondness for Zack getting in the way lmao

The date itself felt very juxtaposed. Aerith is trying to inject some joy on it, but the atmosphere is clearly cold and dower ( at least from my pov ). I feel like putting in the cuts to Zack is to show the aloofness of Cloud as opposed to the urgency of Zack.

The part at the church felt more genuinely emotional, and I don’t think it’s by accident that it’s where most of the more beautiful imagery is used.

Overall a snapshot of their relationship. There’s beauty in it, there’s love and affection, but there’s no romantic spark in their interactions. It’s ultimately a goodbye between two people who care about each other, and that in itself is beautiful.

 

[abzy1200]

And I still don't understand this Cloud coming out of nowhere. And no, sorry, I don't believe in the Real Cloud theory with Aerith. Because the Real Cloud isn't a 10-year-old at the amusement park.

I think the whole real Cloud coming out at times should honestly be taken with a grain of salt, with anybody, Aerith and Tifa. Is Cloud really the "real Cloud" if he doesn't have his memories? If he isn't fully aware of the insecurites that arose from those memories that he internalised and shaped him? I've been thinking about it for a while now, that it feels kinda like bs.

If I don't have my memories, am I really me? Those memories are my past, my past is what influenced and shaped the me right now. When I make a decision, I think back on my memories, my past experiences. So if I don't have those experiences that shaped me...am I really capable of saying "I'm me"?

tldr; Cloud literally can't be real Cloud without knowing everything that makes him real Cloud.

I don't think I've made much sense here but if anyone can decipher it, then great.

 

[Yoru]

I think the whole real Cloud coming out at times should honestly be taken with a grain of salt, with anybody, Aerith and Tifa. Is Cloud really the "real Cloud" if he doesn't have his memories? If he isn't fully aware of the insecurites that arose from those memories that he internalised and shaped him? I've been thinking about it for a while now, that it feels kinda like bs.

If I don't have my memories, am I really me? Those memories are my past, my past is what influenced and shaped the me right now. When I make a decision, I think back on my memories, my past experiences. So if I don't have those experiences that shaped me...am I really capable of saying "I'm me"?

tldr; Cloud can't be Cloud without knowing everything that makes him Cloud.

I don't think I've made much sense here but if anyone can decipher it, then great.

That's my understanding of things too.

Nobody can see the Real Cloud, until he lets Tifa enter his subsconscious to protect her from the Mako in Mideel.

 

[pxl_pushr]

That's my understanding of things too.

Nobody can see the Real Cloud, until he lets Tifa enter his subsconscious to protect her from the Mako in Mideel.

I think at this point, everyone has gotten a peak at real Cloud in one way or another. Anytime he’s genuine and caring, I think that’s real Cloud peaking out from the persona that tailor made to hide that vulnerability.

 

[abzy1200]

I think I might be thinking of a distinction between "Real Cloud's personality coming out" and "the actual guy himself coming out" because I think many people conflate the two.

As in, Cloud's actions while he's in the persona might overlap with what real Cloud might do in a situation, but to say the actual guy himself came out feels impossible.

I don't know if this originally made much sense so I'm changing it to hopefully make more sense.

 

[Eerie]

And I still don't understand this Cloud coming out of nowhere. And no, sorry, I don't believe in the Real Cloud theory with Aerith. Because the Real Cloud isn't a 10-year-old at the amusement park.

It's not real Cloud, he has his SOLDIER looks. Yes, he is more excited at the prospect of going to see the photographer but... we've spent a whole game with him taking stupid poses and lots of photographs, I mean come on.

I think the whole real Cloud coming out at times should honestly be taken with a grain of salt, with anybody, Aerith and Tifa. Is Cloud really the "real Cloud" if he doesn't have his memories? If he isn't fully aware of the insecurites that arose from those memories that he internalised and shaped him? I've been thinking about it for a while now, that it feels kinda like bs.

Yet Cloud and Tifa spends nearly the whole game discussing their childhood memories so yes, he has those memories. Just sayin'.

I think at this point, everyone has gotten a peak at real Cloud in one way or another. Anytime he’s genuine and caring, I think that’s real Cloud peaking out from the persona that tailor made to hide that vulnerability.

The funny thing is that Cloud isn't that kind in the OG, he's always been aloof. He's only ever been kind to Tifa because uh, Tifa. But he's also a shy dork, something we only see with Tifa. He's a ball of insecurities, which we don't see at all even in the trilogy - unless it's in front of Tifa.

I think I might be thinking of a distinction between "Real Cloud's personality coming out" and "the actual guy himself coming out" because I think many people conflate the two.

There's Cloud's real personality, that does come around Tifa, and the real guy who also sometimes comes around (the hug in Remake and I'd say the Gongaga talk in Rebirth).

I think we must not forget that the reason why Tifa has such a high faith in Cloud is because she can spot the real Cloud. She can see him being himself underneath, so she has faith that she can help him. She is Aerith's reverse - Aerith saw Zack's personality in him, the way he walked and behaved generally. Tifa doesn't see SOLDIER!Cloud, she has made very clear in Remake that she did not like this part of him and so what she sees is vastly different because Cloud does open up to her in ways he doesn't to others. Cloud shows her parts of himself that he hides to others, because his yearning for Tifa is so big that he wants her to notice him at all cost, he want to become a special being to her.

Others never know the real Cloud before the Lifestream scene, Aerith herself dies without ever meeting him and that's her tragedy.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I think I might be thinking of a distinction between "Real Cloud's personality coming out" and "the actual guy himself coming out" because I think many people conflate the two.

One of those might be possible, the other feels impossible for the aforementioned reasons.

I’m not really seeing the distinction between the two, so could you elaborate on that point? Sure, his memories are still scrambled eggs, but the persona of Remake is obviously softening over time because Cloud can’t cover his real feelings indefinitely.

His sense of self is still firmly grounded in Tifa, and it’s the qualities she’s more into that are showing up more and more. To me, it feeds the idea that even without his memories, his persona would eventually act similar to his real self through the positive influence of those around him.

 

[abzy1200]

Yet Cloud and Tifa spends nearly the whole game discussing their childhood memories so yes, he has those memories. Just sayin'.

Well, he doesn't have them all. Most notably Zack's death and the effect it would have on him. He remembers Zack is gone, but not the hell Zack went through for him specifically. He also doesn't remember that he never made it into Soldier, which feels like a pivotal thing to remember for him to actually be his full, realised self. That in his eyes he failed Tifa, twice.

I’m not really seeing the distinction between the two, so could you elaborate on that point?

I edited it, so that might have helped get my point across.

There's Cloud's real personality, that does come around Tifa, and the real guy who also sometimes comes around (the hug in Remake and I'd say the Gongaga talk in Rebirth).

I think we must not forget that the reason why Tifa has such a high faith in Cloud is because she can spot the real Cloud. She can see him being himself underneath, so she has faith that she can help him. She is Aerith's reverse - Aerith saw Zack's personality in him, the way he walked and behaved generally. Tifa doesn't see SOLDIER!Cloud, she has made very clear in Remake that she did not like this part of him and so what she sees is vastly different because Cloud does open up to her in ways he doesn't to others. Cloud shows her parts of himself that he hides to others, because his yearning for Tifa is so big that he wants her to notice him at all cost, he want to become a special being to her.

I guess. But it still feels like Cloud can't fully be him if he doesn't have all the experiences that made him, him.

I'll suspend my disbelief for now, but they're on thin ice here.

 

[Yoru]

Yes, he is more excited at the prospect of going to see the photographer but... we've spent a whole game with him taking stupid poses and lots of photographs, I mean come on.

Sure. But I think there's a difference between being goofy and a child talking to his mom. I don't know. Between this and him forgetting about Tifa completely during this scene (in opposition with what I saw during my game) this date was just out of character for me.

Of course, this is a completely personal feeling. But it took me completely out of the game the first time and I experienced everything that followed in a rather remote way. Because I have the impression that this moment was shoehorned in to give Aerith a scene that they had forgotten to develop during the game. So when Ultimania tells us that she's not even ours... I could have done without that.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Sure. But I think there's a difference between being goofy and a child talking to his mom. I don't know. Between this and him forgetting about Tifa completely during this scene (in opposition with what I saw during my game) this date was just out of character for me.

Of course, this is a completely personal feeling. But it took me completely out of the game the first time and I experienced everything that followed in a rather remote way. Because I have the impression that this moment was shoehorned in to give Aerith a scene that they had forgotten to develop during the game. So when Ultimania tells us that she's not even ours... I could have done without that.

It goes beyond a first impression, but in an attempt to read it in a better light for my own benefit, I think that’s why she apologizes in the church.

Because it is kinda… not great? That she uses this ability to pull him into this space under false pretenses to not leave any regrets about their relationship… but it still feels kinda wrong for her to do?

Not sure if the Japanese makes it any clearer, but I do see regret in her at the end. Sephiroth closing in on her is probably why she did something so selfish, but it was ultimately to subvert Sephiroth’s own manipulation. You can’t play that 4D chess match without inherently bending the agency of others, and in Cloud’s case in particular that’s kindaaaaa…

It’s also why I want them to go with Cloud’s subconscious bringing Tifa in to protect her from the Lifestream. It would create a point of comparison.

 

[imach0c0]

Could I ask everyone how they felt when they watched the whole dream date/Zack's interlude for the first time?

I'm wondering what emotions the devs are trying to capture from the players, especially as they kept swapping between Zack, who's trying to save Aerith relentlessly, and the CA date. Like, on its own I don't think I'd feel as negative/conflicted about the scene than I do with Zack's presence. The message (I think they're trying to say) is not bad, and in fact it's all bittersweet imo. But as I kept seeing Zack... Hmm lol

Love to hear everyone's thoughts

EDIT: Changed 'find Aerith' to 'save Aerith'

Another edit sorry but I guess with the perspective of the whole church scene being meta, if I were to expand it to the date as a whole, it personally inclines me to believe that I'm supposed to feel uncomfortable. But idk maybe it's just my fondness for Zack getting in the way lmao

Other than delivering the white materia, I think the "dream date" portion was doing 2 things:

1. "Aerith" saying goodbye to Cloud on her terms. Meaning being able to say an honest goodbye without regret, which in part is her figuring out her feelings for him.

2. Informing the player and Aerith about the reality of her feelings (what Aerith wants and what her heart wants are 2 different things) I think the Zack references are there to reinforce this idea.

1. Booth 1 - Gift
This seems to be a reference to when Zack buys a bow for Aerith in CC.
When the seller gives the gift to Cloud, he looks displeased and doesn't take it. Aerith takes it and says: "I will treasure this" (JP rough translation)
This is a contrast to what happens in CC as Aerith chooses the bow she wants and Zack is the one that puts it on her. This is also a parallel to the line that Aerith says: "I will treasure this" (JP verbatim)
Side note: The fact that Aerith is still repeating dialogue that she shared with Zack gives an impression that Aerith may still be somewhat projecting onto Cloud (although she is trying to have a moment with him)

2. Booth 2 - Candy
The candy tastes bad but Aerith is optimistic and tells the clerk that it needs more sugar.

3. Booth 3 - Photogprapher
When Cloud asks why they passed on their photo, the photographer says: "You do not look like a couple and it looks like the girl is about to cry" (JP rough translation) However, Aerith doesn't think so.
This is a contrast to CC. A clerk assumes that Zack is Aerith's boyfriend and he gives his blessing to the two of them (although this is the first time they met)

4. When Aerith mentions the "place of memories" (JP), Cloud doesn't know at first. Then it cuts to Zack sitting at the church. Although the church could be a place of memory for Aerith and Cloud (since Cloud fell through the church), I argue its more significant to Aerith and Zack because its where she first met Zack and where they fell in love (love at first sight). And Zack is often associated with the church/reunion flower imagery.

On a side note - the stamp has a resemblance to Zack (black and spiky) and its wearing a bandana with a "fair" sky pattern (the fair sky is symbolic to Zack). There is also billboard sign with the "zack" dog carrying a puppy with a bandage on its arm. (This seems to reference Zack carrying mako Cloud at the beginning Rebirth. The bandage is also on the same arm that Cloud has the bandage thing on). Not sure if there is significance to this reference but it is interesting analyze.

I think the illusion of choice is to show that no matter what, it won't work out (to the player). In all 3 instances, when Aerith is met with rejection, she does not accept it. I interperet this as her heart and head being in 2 difference places. Seeing this is her dream world, it seems the environment and clerks are representing her subconcious but Aerith is just not "getting it."

It kinda addresses the part of Aerith's character arc that is struggling to move on from Zack. On the surface, it looks like she has moved on when she says things like "looking forward, not back" (remake - at the park) or assuming she wasn't the girlfriend in the letter (rebirth - gongaga). However these are coping mechanisms to not accept reality. Aerith acts similarly in the date - when she is met with rejection, she brushes it off and accepts what she wants to in the moment. Whether she realizes it or not, she still loves Zack. I think when Aerith arrives at the church, its where she comes back to reality. (perhaps experiencing that date gave her the closure she needed). Which is why she wonders what "suki" she has. I believe this will answered when she meets Zack.

 

[overheat28]

Could I ask everyone how they felt when they watched the whole dream date/Zack's interlude for the first time?

I'm wondering what emotions the devs are trying to capture from the players, especially as they kept swapping between Zack, who's trying to save Aerith relentlessly, and the CA date. Like, on its own I don't think I'd feel as negative/conflicted about the scene than I do with Zack's presence. The message (I think they're trying to say) is not bad, and in fact it's all bittersweet imo. But as I kept seeing Zack... Hmm lol

Love to hear everyone's thoughts

EDIT: Changed 'find Aerith' to 'save Aerith'

Another edit sorry but I guess with the perspective of the whole church scene being meta, if I were to expand it to the date as a whole, it personally inclines me to believe that I'm supposed to feel uncomfortable. But idk maybe it's just my fondness for Zack getting in the way lmao

As a Zack fan, found the whole sequence infuriating on first viewing, especially with the Marlene setup right before. I wasn't really expecting to have ZA validated coming into Rebirth so my first thought was - I get it, she likes Cloud now - but why juxtapose Zack going thru hell like that just to rub it in? I mean she's on a date with his bff and he's repeating his CC death like multiple times? And he's doing it all for her, too. Foul.

But then I went back and rewatched it - picked up the CC first date callbacks and all the assorted symbolism - vendor pointing to the pink hairclip specifically and then not letting Cloud have it, the reunion pin Cloud doesn't want, Zack chasing reunion flower petals a few minutes later, photographer mentioning a funeral, Zack sitting at "our spot" when Cloud doesn't know what she's taking about etc etc.

Seemed like more meta-commentary just like Remake's resolution scenes. Aerith can't escape her fate and all roads lead back to Zack - CA isn't the intended course and never was. Marlene's statement was answered. And then we find out it wasn't even "our" Aerith. So now I think this was also some attempt to give CoLW Aerith a chance to get closure about her feelings for Cloud. A soft retcon - she goes from koibito to I wonder what kind of like this is. This Aerith clearly has knowledge of her fate and Sephiroth is trying to hunt her down, so the lifestream black/white connection makes sense to me. Many layers to this thing.

I still feel the sequence was overall messy and convoluted and I still can't help gritting my teeth for Zack's predicament. But I guess I can just about stomach it if Zack gets the payoff it's pointing to in p3.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Could I ask everyone how they felt when they watched the whole dream date/Zack's interlude for the first time?

I'm wondering what emotions the devs are trying to capture from the players, especially as they kept swapping between Zack, who's trying to save Aerith relentlessly, and the CA date. Like, on its own I don't think I'd feel as negative/conflicted about the scene than I do with Zack's presence. The message (I think they're trying to say) is not bad, and in fact it's all bittersweet imo. But as I kept seeing Zack... Hmm lol

Love to hear everyone's thoughts

EDIT: Changed 'find Aerith' to 'save Aerith'

Another edit sorry but I guess with the perspective of the whole church scene being meta, if I were to expand it to the date as a whole, it personally inclines me to believe that I'm supposed to feel uncomfortable. But idk maybe it's just my fondness for Zack getting in the way lmao

It's partly meta, but it's also definitely there to reinforce that Cloud is not right for Aerith, and deep down she knows it. We have it confirmed that Dream Aerith is not Our Aerith, so it's likely it's the Aerith who was piggybacking with Our Aerith in Remake, OG Aerith. She's giving herself a one last "what if" to sort her feelings out.

This is my downside of FF7 Rebirth.

I don't understand this scene, and just when I think I do, someone points out the message it sends to see Aerith "having a good time" while Zack, who's trying to save her on the other side, dies over and over again, and I find myself finding this scene disgusting.

If it was to make us understand that Aerith has moved on. It doesn't. If it was to make us understand that she still loves Zack, I think there was a better way to respect his memory.

And I still don't understand this Cloud coming out of nowhere. And no, sorry, I don't believe in the Real Cloud theory with Aerith. Because the Real Cloud isn't a 10-year-old at the amusement park.

This is us seeing Aerith learning not only that she hasn't moved on, but cannot move on with Cloud. He's not what she wants or needs. Zack is. That's why this is a Zack segment in the internal logic of the game, it's furthering his narrative, not Cloud's It's handing Cloud a MacGuffin, and setting Aerith up to come to the conclusion that not only did she always love Zack, she never loved Cloud and he never loved her, even though they do like each other.

That in the grand scheme of things, it felt a little forced. Why have this date? The Sleeping Forest dream in OG was fine, granted that's going off my recollections of that other game.

I liked the Zack parts just cause it's Zack, but the date felt so out of place at this point. Aerith also starts the date off by telling Cloud to just play along before they left her house, too, which...I still don't know how I feel about. But the biggest thing that gets me here is how the Aerith here isn't "our" Aerith. And I don't care about this Aerith.

I believe this is the Remake Resolution Aerith. She knew there was no chance of a happy ending, so she was warning Cloud not to fall in love with her, but even then she was talking to herself more than Cloud without realizing it. This is the next step in her journey back to Zack.

The date itself felt very juxtaposed. Aerith is trying to inject some joy on it, but the atmosphere is clearly cold and dower ( at least from my pov ). I feel like putting in the cuts to Zack is to show the aloofness of Cloud as opposed to the urgency of Zack.

The part at the church felt more genuinely emotional, and I don’t think it’s by accident that it’s where most of the more beautiful imagery is used.

Overall a snapshot of their relationship. There’s beauty in it, there’s love and affection, but there’s no romantic spark in their interactions. It’s ultimately a goodbye between two people who care about each other, and that in itself is beautiful.

This is also part of it.

Also, remember that Other Marlene's full line is that "She likes Cloud because you weren't there." I am pretty sure this is meant very literally. in that "She will like Cloud only in the absence of Zack."