SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[nars305]

I think it’s easy to come to the “Tifa is jealous” idea if you think of Tifa as a fan service background character who is not as important to Cloud as Aerith.

 

[Ryeleigh]

I think they had to be careful doing it because the mere mention of Zack’s name gets quite the response from Cloud. I think they were hoping that upon replaying it ( either seeing that Zack somehow “lives” or after playing Crisis Core Reunion ) you’d pick up on more subtle hints.

They have to go under the impression that not everyone knows the plot of FF7. Those who know, will pick up on more the first time through, those who don’t will be pleasantly greeted by details that they didn’t notice before. Makes all feel more like a complete story

That's a good point. But it still feels a bit odd that no one even peripherally mentions him. Even something like "that other SOLDIER" would've been enough for me, lol. But I guess it's possible that the present kids weren't at the orphanage or were too young to remember Zack coming around? As for Ms Folia, it's implied that she started around the time Biggs left for Avalanche? So she might not have seen Zack either.

Poor Zack. He has it tough.

 

[Eerie]

In Rebirth I liked the symbolism of ZA like when they were metaphysically touching with their hands, things like that, Aerith looking at the sky when there was Zack interlude, etc, Aerith's magic protecting Zack during the fight with Sephiroth, all the stuff with the ribbon, I just need a bit more, like a proper reunion, maybe some hand holding, etc. Basically since everything is supposed to link up to Advent Children showing how ZA came to be reunited would be cool I think.

I do agree with you in a way; personally I feel that what they did for ZA was nice in Rebirth (and even Remake) but the shadow of Cloud has always been looming over them because we've never seen them reunite.

And I firmly believe we will see them reunite in the church, and maybeeeeeeeeee even kiss. That Cloud shadow will be dispelled because the target for ZA is "her first love Zack is always by her side".

Weighing in on this, The same Ultimania segment that describes Tifa's complicated feelings also makes sure to note that cherishing Aerith is how Tifa really feels.
Along this line it can also be understood that Tifa is upset because Cloud is associating the memory of her good friend, of someone she cherished, with failure and guilt and doubt. She hates that her friend's memory is causing her man this pain, especially knowing it's not Aerith's fault.

Don't worry GLD, the chain shall continue later.

Wait for it I think there's a Nomura quote telling it plainly that she feels guilty towards Aerith because she believes they could've saved her. So she shares the same guilt towards Aerith than Cloud - which is why she can understand him still so well in CoT when he feels depressed after going to Aerith's burial place - but she had her depression "earlier" than Cloud - still the guilt remains.

Edit: found the quote, it's from Nojima (translation by Peko):

So if Cloud is the "new hero", was Zack the old hero? To be honest, I wish they hadn't tried to keep Zack a secret so hard because I wanted Chapter 8 to be bold and obvious about him.

There are a lot of NPCs actually commenting on Cloud and making comparisons in sector 8. And the theme song is playing in instrumental version because they both (Cloud and Aerith) miss Zack, and it's the reason why they're connecting so well - a kind of loneliness only they can understand.

 

[imach0c0]

Because he has the wrong head model, sry

For real though, I feel like they’re trying to scream at you that Zack is beyond committed to Aerith. Dude is a champion

Its even apparent in Zack's interactions and body language towards Aerith. When he talks to her or touches her, he is very gentle and tender. (There is more nuance in the JP VA I find). It really shows how deeply in love he is with her.

 

[Yoru]

Its even apparent in Zack's interactions and body language towards Aerith. When he talks to her or touches her, he is very gentle and tender. (There is more nuance in the JP VA I find). It really shows how deeply in love he is with her.

Elmyra yells at him for not bothering to clean her face, but I think he doesn't dare touch her out of respect. Gentleman Zack.

 

[imach0c0]

Elmyra yells at him for not even bothering to clean her face, but I think he actually dares not touch her out of respect. Gentleman Zack.

I found that line funny because her face looked relatively clean compared to how it was when Zack first found her.

In JP, Elmyra says something along the lines of "Look at Aerith's skin, its dry and there is dirt" (paraphrase) So maybe he missed a spot or it wasn't to Elmyra's standards. Lol

 

[nars305]

I just need more than this for Cloud and Zack reuniting lmao.

 

[Rin]

Speaking of Zack, lol. After sneaking out of Aerith's house, you can talk to the housemother who, for some reason, is hanging around the Leaf House yard in the middle of the night. She says: "The kids are talking about you like they've found themselves a new hero."

So if Cloud is the "new hero", was Zack the old hero? To be honest, I wish they hadn't tried to keep Zack a secret so hard because I wanted Chapter 8 to be bold and obvious about him.

They dialed their original intentions back a TON because initially the chapter was going to be called Crisis Core and be full of Zack references.
This is why I laugh about ppl saying 'Hollow' isn't about Zack bc it's one of the references to him that was left in the chapter, as well as the kids carrying around buster swords, and Elmyra regarding him w/ suspicion.

 

[pxl_pushr]

They dialed their original intentions back a TON because initially the chapter was going to be called Crisis Core and be full of Zack references.
This is why I laugh about ppl saying 'Hollow' isn't about Zack bc it's one of the references to him that was left in the chapter, as well as the kids carrying around buster swords, and Elmyra regarding him w/ suspicion.

Always took Hollow as basically how Cloud deals with major loss, hence why it’s not a happy song. If you consider it from the pov of Cloud as he stumbles into Midgar, then he’s lost his hometown, his mom, Tifa, and just recently Zack. Take from a broader pov and you can put Aerith on the list too, but it’s not just about her either way from the way I see it.

 

[imach0c0]

They dialed their original intentions back a TON because initially the chapter was going to be called Crisis Core and be full of Zack references.
This is why I laugh about ppl saying 'Hollow' isn't about Zack bc it's one of the references to him that was left in the chapter, as well as the kids carrying around buster swords, and Elmyra regarding him w/ suspicion.

I believe there was quest that was supposed to be called "Crisis Core" where you build a wagon or deliver flowers in a wagon.

A rendition of Hollow also plays in one of areas close to where Zack died in Rebirth.

I think some people don't realize the significance of Zack. He not only plays a key role in both Cloud and Aerith's character arcs, but he is also a connecting piece in Cloud and Aerith's relationship.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Its even apparent in Zack's interactions and body language towards Aerith. When he talks to her or touches her, he is very gentle and tender. (There is more nuance in the JP VA I find). It really shows how deeply in love he is with her.

I mean, they're married irl. That's just serendipity.

 

[imach0c0]

Speaking of Zack references --

There is a NPC couple in Zack's world that talks about not being able to go on enough dates because the guy was always away for work. But now that they can, the girl wants to go to as many places with the guy so that they can make new memories together.

I am not sure if this is a coincidence or not but its interesting how it kinda parallels Zack and Aerith in CC. As Zack was usually away because of work and Aerith wanted to spend more time with him.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Speaking of Zack references --

There is a NPC couple in Zack's world that talks about not being able to go on enough dates because the guy was always away for work. But now that they can, the girl wants to go to as many places with the guy so that they can make new memories together.

I am not sure if this is a coincidence or not but it’s interesting how it kinda parallels Zack and Aerith in CC. As Zack was usually away because of work and Aerith wanted to spend more time with him.

I’m gonna need to take a week vacation just to play Remake, Rebirth, and then part 3 because I swear nuggets like this are the types of things people find that tickles me to no end.

 

[Sacky]

Getting back to my son... can we talk about the moment when we see him sleeping with nothing on because he used his own blanket to make Aerith a pillow? I can't...

View attachment 17035View attachment 17036

How can you hate him ?!

ah the famous womanizer, in all his glory, was also a war criminal. Yep thats Zack, thats what the devs clearly want us to think XD
Aerith is just any other girl to him absolutely

 

[Rin]

I believe there was quest that was supposed to be called "Crisis Core" where you build a wagon or deliver flowers in a wagon.

A rendition of Hollow also plays in one of areas close to where Zack died in Rebirth.

I think some people don't realize the significance of Zack. He not only plays a key role in both Cloud and Aerith's character arcs, but he is also a connecting piece in Cloud and Aerith's relationship.

Ah yes, you're right. It was a quest, not the chapter! Ty

 

[nars305]

I’m gonna need to take a week vacation just to play Remake, Rebirth, and then part 3 because I swear nuggets like this are the types of things people find that tickles me to no end.

I’ll definitely be replaying both right before Part 3 releases. There is so much I couldn’t appreciate in Remake because I knew nothing about FF7.

 

[Ryeleigh]

There are a lot of NPCs actually commenting on Cloud and making comparisons in sector 8. And the theme song is playing in instrumental version because they both (Cloud and Aerith) miss Zack, and it's the reason why they're connecting so well - a kind of loneliness only they can understand.

I think some people don't realize the significance of Zack. He not only plays a key role in both Cloud and Aerith's character arcs, but he is also a connecting piece in Cloud and Aerith's relationship.

Considering that Aerith and Cloud are both mimicking Zack's mannerisms and gestures, I wonder if they feel a sort of wistful nostalgia around each other? Cloud more subconsciously than Aerith, I would guess.

They dialed their original intentions back a TON because initially the chapter was going to be called Crisis Core and be full of Zack references.
This is why I laugh about ppl saying 'Hollow' isn't about Zack bc it's one of the references to him that was left in the chapter, as well as the kids carrying around buster swords, and Elmyra regarding him w/ suspicion.

Lol, I've seen extreme CAs who were absolutely adamant that the kids were carrying buster swords because of Cloud, not Zack. Granted, they hadn't even played Remake and they have a vested interest in not playing Remake. But considering that it doesn't make sense for them to make those homemade swords for patrol before Cloud's even made it back to the Leaf House from saving the other kids, I can just imagine Zack visiting the Leaf House with Aerith and sitting around crafting them for the kids. I just really wanted to see it too. (Is greedy, lol.)

 

[pxl_pushr]

Considering that Aerith and Cloud are both mimicking Zack's mannerisms and gestures, I wonder if they feel a sort of wistful nostalgia around each other? Cloud more subconsciously than Aerith, I would guess.


Lol, I've seen extreme CAs who were absolutely adamant that the kids were carrying buster swords because of Cloud, not Zack. Granted, they hadn't even played Remake and they have a vested interest in not playing Remake. But considering that it doesn't make sense for them to make those homemade swords for patrol before Cloud's even made it back to the Leaf House from saving the other kids, I can just imagine Zack visiting the Leaf House with Aerith and sitting around crafting them for the kids. I just really wanted to see it too. (Is greedy, lol.)

Zack is the hero the setting needs, Cloud is the hero the setting deserves

 

[Stiggie]

Oh I see, she's not jealous of Aerith specifically, but the circumstances around Aerith, i.e. Cloud deciding to run away and confide in her church instead of talking to Tifa and working things out with her.

Makes complete sense. Sorry it's early here, so I jumped the gun a little bit forgive me

I wish they didn't say it so cryptically though? Sometimes it feels like I need a PhD to fully comprehend what the devs are trying to insinuate lol.

There's a quote out there that says "Tifa has complex feelings towards Aerith as a woman", and people say that she's jealous because Cloud hides in Aerith's church instead of talking to her.

Isn't there also some quote from Case of Tifa or an interview or something about Tifa suspecting that something else was going on with Cloud? Arguably implying that Tifa was insecure a reason for Clouds depression during AC might be romantic feelings?
(not talking about the sewer scene in remake)

Getting back to my son... can we talk about the moment when we see him sleeping with nothing on because he used his own blanket to make Aerith a pillow? I can't...

View attachment 17035View attachment 17036

How can you hate him ?!

I didn't realize that that is adorable

 

[Sacky]

In Rebirth I liked the symbolism of ZA like when they were metaphysically touching with their hands, things like that, Aerith looking at the sky when there was Zack interlude, etc, Aerith's magic protecting Zack during the fight with Sephiroth, all the stuff with the ribbon, I just need a bit more, like a proper reunion, maybe some hand holding, etc. Basically since everything is supposed to link up to Advent Children showing how ZA came to be reunited would be cool I think.

What about when the burial scene happens and Aerith is lowered into the water it transitions to the lifestream church with Zack catching Aerith and she wakes up in the lifestream.

 

[abzy1200]

Isn't there also some quote from Case of Tifa or an interview or something about Tifa suspecting that something else was going on with Cloud? Arguably implying that Tifa was insecure a reason for Clouds depression during AC might be romantic feelings?
(not talking about the sewer scene in remake)

I feel like I've also seen something like that circulating.

Doesn't necessarily prove much anway, Tifa feeling that way doesn't mean we immediately default to Cloud favouring Aerith.

 

[nars305]

What about when the burial scene happens and Aerith is lowered into the water it transitions to the lifestream church with Zack catching Aerith and she wakes up in the lifestream.

I don’t know what I’m expecting of their reunion. But I know Part 3 is gonna make me cry a few times between CT and ZA.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I feel like I've also seen something like that circulating.

Doesn't necessarily prove much anway, Tifa feeling that way doesn't mean we immediately default to Cloud favouring Aerith.

Just further proves the dangers of not communicating because it leaves the other person with nothing to go on in terms of figuring out what’s up with you.

That’s why Cloud saying “I’m not fit to protect anyone” it all clicks for Tifa and she verbally hits him where it hurts.

 

[ViolaaFox]

What about when the burial scene happens and Aerith is lowered into the water it transitions to the lifestream church with Zack catching Aerith and she wakes up in the lifestream.

That would be so beautiful. I'm really looking forward to the Zerith reunion.

 

[zinniawoods109349]

Getting back to my son... can we talk about the moment when we see him sleeping with nothing on because he used his own blanket to make Aerith a pillow? I can't...

View attachment 17035View attachment 17036

How can you hate him ?!

i love this so much he is so pure

What about when the burial scene happens and Aerith is lowered into the water it transitions to the lifestream church with Zack catching Aerith and she wakes up in the lifestream.

this would be great.. especially with zack waking her up in the same way she would i was gutted about not seeing the burial scene because it was my favourite in the original.. beautiful yet sad.

i love all of the small things sprinkled throughout the games that indicate/could indicate aerith and zack referencing each other, particularly because we don’t get to see them together. one of the things aerith says when she’s incapacitated in rebirth is ‘that voice calling to me... i know you.’, which i like to think is about zack (though this could be about anyone she’s lost, i can’t imagine she’d say this to her mother). additionally, in ever crisis, i think zack says something like ‘i wanted to hear you say welcome home [okaeri]’, and seeing as i recently learned that he says ‘tadaima’ to aerith in rebirth and gets no response, this hit me hard when i first heard it , so i like to think he’s talking about her. there’s also the ribbon around the hand, looking to the sky, the hand holding, etc. does anyone have any more interesting things like the pillow thing and the NPC talk about the guy always working?

an undeniable love story in this game that i don’t see being talked about as often is the friendship between zack and cloud, and i really hope we get to see some sort of reunion between them. i loved how zack was being supportive in the fight and patting cloud on the shoulder. although they’ve barely shown them interact, i really love the dynamic when they do, and i think it could show a really different side to cloud in part 3, like in crisis core. i believe that we will see some sort of reunion because zack said ‘let’s save the catching up for later’ (anyone know the japanese translation?), and biggs referenced his own death, so i have hope lol. i also thought it was kinda weird how cloud seemed to ‘wake up twice’ when he stepped out of the wheelchair in the dream date. i thought this might’ve been alluding to something, but i don’t know what.

one thing i keep wondering though is whether zack even realises he’s dead. he said the line about not taking fate’s shit anymore, and he seemed confused himself that he picked biggs at one point.. i think this being revealed to him could be as sad as it being revealed to cloud so i hope he already knows lol. anyone got any thoughts on whether he realises and whether we will have a reunion between him and cloud?