SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[pxl_pushr]

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This is funny XD devs saying that the interviewer claiming Tifa was the best means people will send the interviewer angry DM's
i do wonder how much they actually see on twitter of the discourse

Wouldn’t shock me if they at least know what will set people off on socials, either from personal experience or from what they’ve heard from people monitoring the hashtags.

Funny how a game where “who Cloud likes is up to the player” that Tifa is the wrong answer. Makes you think…

 

[Ryushikaze]

You know, I've been speculating we're going to start PT3 with Cloud as the main POV character again, and then obvious switch to Tifa once Cloud leaves the party, but what if we start with Tifa as the lead character out of battle instead of Cloud from the get go? Let her be the lead through the entire Icicle/ Gaea/ Crater/ Junon /??? / Mideel sequence, really drive home that we're losing control of Cloud and that this is Tifa's game as much as his, really.

 

[pxl_pushr]

You know, I've been speculating we're going to start PT3 with Cloud as the main POV character again, and then obvious switch to Tifa once Cloud leaves the party, but what if we start with Tifa as the lead character out of battle instead of Cloud from the get go? Let her be the lead through the entire Icicle/ Gaea/ Crater/ Junon /??? / Mideel sequence, really drive home that we're losing control of Cloud and that this is Tifa's game as much as his, really.

It would make sense tbh. There’s plenty of opportunity to really push his mental instability up through NC and showing it from just outside his pov would be perfect imo

A really haunting way you could show it is having one dialogue option to kind of bait people into thinking it’s business as usual, but every time you highlight an answer, it switches to say “Reunion” instead

 

[Eerie]

You know, I've been speculating we're going to start PT3 with Cloud as the main POV character again, and then obvious switch to Tifa once Cloud leaves the party, but what if we start with Tifa as the lead character out of battle instead of Cloud from the get go? Let her be the lead through the entire Icicle/ Gaea/ Crater/ Junon /??? / Mideel sequence, really drive home that we're losing control of Cloud and that this is Tifa's game as much as his, really.

I've already thought about this but I'm not sure they are up to it. It would be pretty awesome as we'd see Cloud degrading from the end of Rebirth until the NC scene. I wonder what they will do though because the next game should start at Icicle but I don't see Icicle as a starting zone tbh.

 

[Sacky]

You know, I've been speculating we're going to start PT3 with Cloud as the main POV character again, and then obvious switch to Tifa once Cloud leaves the party, but what if we start with Tifa as the lead character out of battle instead of Cloud from the get go? Let her be the lead through the entire Icicle/ Gaea/ Crater/ Junon /??? / Mideel sequence, really drive home that we're losing control of Cloud and that this is Tifa's game as much as his, really.

it would be amazing. i also have a prediction for a scene in the icicle inn where the group are discussing Cloud and his issues together away from him but reluctantly agree to keep going to NC since hes the best chance of stopping Sephiroth. Tifa objects to this the most, setting up her staying by him in Mideel and the regret she feels after NC. She will also look over at an empty bed or something and we will see more of her grief about Aerith's death since Cloud is in denial. I do think we will switch to Cloud during the parts before NC though since the devs might want us to play with a different playstyle Darker Cloud? i do hope the first part of the game is very Tifa focused though and we only get a bit of Clouds gameplay but mostly Tifa until after LS Sequence. Offering new perspectives in the story and to shut up those people who say Tifa is not one of the main heriones and characters in FF7.

 

[nars305]

This was a fun read, also made me want to start my second play through lol.

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[Sacky]

that thread has a lot of evidence that i have also been noticing that shows just how Cloti the final part and LS is probably going to be

This was a fun read, also made me want to start my second play through lol.

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[Eerie]

This was a fun read, also made me want to start my second play through lol.

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Yeah I have a very few nitpicks but it's pretty on the nose lol. My main nitpick would be that I think Cloud and Tifa became soulmates during the Promise, as they tied their feelings, hopes and dreams together at that moment and this is why Tifa is able to pull Cloud through his mako poisoned state.

 

[nars305]

that thread has a lot of evidence that i have also been noticing that shows just how Cloti the final part and LS is probably going to be

Yeah the main thing I love about it is the theory of how Tifa was able to be in the LS in the first place in Gongaga. Cloud being in, what looks like, his catatonic state, and her seeing his and her memories. It also makes sense of why they moved her remembering the bridge incident now instead of later. Like it shows how the memories can be restored.

 

[Stiggie]

You know, I've been speculating we're going to start PT3 with Cloud as the main POV character again, and then obvious switch to Tifa once Cloud leaves the party, but what if we start with Tifa as the lead character out of battle instead of Cloud from the get go? Let her be the lead through the entire Icicle/ Gaea/ Crater/ Junon /??? / Mideel sequence, really drive home that we're losing control of Cloud and that this is Tifa's game as much as his, really.

I'd like that, but I doubt it, goes back to my complaints concerning SE that I offered up earlier. I think this would be a bold choice with merit and impact. But I don't believe they'll do it because I think they don't want a game without Cloud the same way they don't want one without Sephiroth.
My guess is that they'll try to minimize the amount of time sans Cloud unfortunately.

 

[abzy1200]

sans Cloud

? am I crazy what does this mean.

 

[Yoru]

? am I crazy what does this mean.

= without Cloud.

 

[abzy1200]

He'd still be there, so it's not like he wouldn't be there at all, though.

 

[pxl_pushr]

He'd still be there, so it's not like he wouldn't be there at all, though.

I think they mean that Cloud won’t be out of party leader for very long. The idea proposed would result in Cloud not being the primary perspective character for a good chunk of the game, probably approaching half of it. That’s a tall order for SE, even I would agree with that.

I think they could do it though. The story kind of demands Cloud be absent for a good chunk of time in part 3 at some point.

 

[Ryushikaze]

It would make sense tbh. There’s plenty of opportunity to really push his mental instability up through NC and showing it from just outside his pov would be perfect imo

A really haunting way you could show it is having one dialogue option to kind of bait people into thinking it’s business as usual, but every time you highlight an answer, it switches to say “Reunion” instead

Like whatever you choose, he says the same thing? That sort of fits with my idea of once the LS event concludes you get a dialogue prompt but all the options are the actual same and it's the last prompt of its kind save "yes I will/ No I won't" style prompts for sidequests.

I've already thought about this but I'm not sure they are up to it. It would be pretty awesome as we'd see Cloud degrading from the end of Rebirth until the NC scene. I wonder what they will do though because the next game should start at Icicle but I don't see Icicle as a starting zone tbh.

I mean we need to see it either way, the thought here is we see it more from the exterior, see how Cloud looks without the special effects and the cutaways.

it would be amazing. i also have a prediction for a scene in the icicle inn where the group are discussing Cloud and his issues together away from him but reluctantly agree to keep going to NC since hes the best chance of stopping Sephiroth. Tifa objects to this the most, setting up her staying by him in Mideel and the regret she feels after NC. She will also look over at an empty bed or something and we will see more of her grief about Aerith's death since Cloud is in denial. I do think we will switch to Cloud during the parts before NC though since the devs might want us to play with a different playstyle Darker Cloud? i do hope the first part of the game is very Tifa focused though and we only get a bit of Clouds gameplay but mostly Tifa until after LS Sequence. Offering new perspectives in the story and to shut up those people who say Tifa is not one of the main heriones and characters in FF7.

Even if she's not party leader for all of it, I think we need at least one more segment where she's the party leader like in Hojo's Lab in Remake.

I'd like that, but I doubt it, goes back to my complaints concerning SE that I offered up earlier. I think this would be a bold choice with merit and impact. But I don't believe they'll do it because I think they don't want a game without Cloud the same way they don't want one without Sephiroth.
My guess is that they'll try to minimize the amount of time sans Cloud unfortunately.

My suggestion wouldn't remove Cloud from the party, it would just move him away from the mandatory party slot. Right after the snowboard sequence might be a good option for this. Cloud gets remove for a moment from the party, Tifa has to find him and stop him from doing the reunion shuffle, Tifa says "Let me take the lead" and she's Party Leader for Gaia's cliffs segment. Cloud takes back over at the Crater. Basically swap between their perspectives for the first few chapters, then a couple chapters of Tifa (Extending the time between Junon and Mideel some) and then we get the Cid moments, the LS, and Cloud back as Party Leader.

 

[Sacky]

So where did Family of Friends stuff even come from?

 

[Yoru]

Like whatever you choose, he says the same thing? That sort of fits with my idea of once the LS event concludes you get a dialogue prompt but all the options are the actual same and it's the last prompt of its kind save "yes I will/ No I won't" style prompts for sidequests.


I mean we need to see it either way, the thought here is we see it more from the exterior, see how Cloud looks without the special effects and the cutaways.


Even if she's not party leader for all of it, I think we need at least one more segment where she's the party leader like in Hojo's Lab in Remake.


My suggestion wouldn't remove Cloud from the party, it would just move him away from the mandatory party slot. Right after the snowboard sequence might be a good option for this. Cloud gets remove for a moment from the party, Tifa has to find him and stop him from doing the reunion shuffle, Tifa says "Let me take the lead" and she's Party Leader for Gaia's cliffs segment. Cloud takes back over at the Crater. Basically swap between their perspectives for the first few chapters, then a couple chapters of Tifa (Extending the time between Junon and Mideel some) and then we get the Cid moments, the LS, and Cloud back as Party Leader.

I'll back up your logic even more.

In the same way that I advocate for extremely limited appearances by Aerith, I think there needs to be a real break with Cloud. We have to insist on the fact that his mind is giving out. Just as much as it needs to be emphasized that Cloud was the team's most important asset. The player has to live with this loss. We need to feel how important Cloud was. His leadership. His power.

This can't just be a minor setback. But a significant event that leaves the team in a kind of impasse.

 

[abzy1200]

So where did Family of Friends stuff even come from?

On the way to a smile: Case of Tifa.

It's a worthless line, I'm not even sure why it's there. It can't be referring to her situation with Cloud and Marlene since she says friendS, plural, and last time I checked people don't refer to their children as friends.

But it seems weird for it to be referring to the rest of AVALANCHE, because from what we're shown in Case of Tifa, they're not really shown to be helping "weather the storm" Tifa speaks of.

 

[pxl_pushr]

On the way to a smile: Case of Tifa.

It's a worthless line, I'm not even sure why it's there. It can't be referring to her situation with Cloud and Marlene since she says friendS, plural, and last time I checked people don't refer to their children as friends.

But it seems weird for it to be referring to the rest of AVALANCHE, because from what we're shown in Case of Tifa, they're not really shown to be helping "weather the storm" Tifa speaks of.

Hmm

I do wonder how Japanese would express a makeshift family structure/found family. It’s a very non traditional setup, so I wonder if it’s difficult to express literally, so they took a poetic route? Pondering out of ignorance on my part.

 

[Ryushikaze]

On the way to a smile: Case of Tifa.

It's a worthless line, I'm not even sure why it's there. It can't be referring to her situation with Cloud and Marlene since she says friendS, plural, and last time I checked people don't refer to their children as friends.

But it seems weird for it to be referring to the rest of AVALANCHE, because from what we're shown in Case of Tifa, they're not really shown to be helping "weather the storm" Tifa speaks of.

I believe the line refers partly to 7th Heaven Avalanche and partly to the adventuring party, given that IIRC the context of it coming up refers to Tifa's doubts and guilt. It's definitely presented as being a different situation to her life with Cloud and Marlene and later Denzel.

I'll back up your logic even more.

In the same way that I advocate for extremely limited appearances by Aerith, I think there needs to be a real break with Cloud. We have to insist on the fact that his mind is giving out. Just as much as it needs to be emphasized that Cloud was the team's most important asset. The player has to live with this loss. We need to feel how important Cloud was. His leadership. His power.

This can't just be a minor setback. But a significant event that leaves the team in a kind of impasse.

Yeah, thinking back on it, I had the thought that perhaps for at least part of the leadup to the Crater, Cloud is a guest party member, like Red 13 was in Remake. Assisting the party, out of player control, and just plain brutal towards enemies.

 

[Ryeleigh]

Hmm

I do wonder how Japanese would express a makeshift family structure/found family. It’s a very non traditional setup, so I wonder if it’s difficult to express literally, so they took a poetic route? Pondering out of ignorance on my part.

I can't say for sure but I kind of doubt it, considering how prevalent foster/adoptive families are in Japanese fairy tales. I'm also not sure if the laws have changed but when it was still illegal, homosexual couples in Japan got married, so to speak, by adopting the other person into the family name.

So I kind of imagine that they might have more complex terminology for it than in the West? But since I'm not an expert, you can take my words with a pinch of salt.

 

[Eerie]

Searching for "family" in CoT:
On p4:

“I like ‘Seventh Heaven,’”


That was the one name I wanted to avoid. Just having the past in me was enough. I wasn’t sure it was right to use a name that would remind me of it.


“Why?”


“Because it was fun. If we make it Seventh Heaven it’ll be fun again.”


We had forgotten. We all had our ambitions, but Marlene wasn’t part of that. To her, Seventh Heaven was a happy home where her family and friends were.

“Don’t worry, I’ll be a good girl for them!”


Hearing those words, Cloud and Tifa exchanged glances.


… for us?


“I’ll take care of Cloud and Tifa!”


Looking back, Barret shouted, “Do your best!”


His voice was a little shaky.


“Keep the family together and keep at it!”

Friends were a necessity to me so that I could live on without being suppressed by the guilt I felt. Even if they all bore the same scars, the same sins. We couldn’t live without comforting and encouraging each other. Maybe you could call that family. We just had to work together and do our best. Together with friend we can call family, there’s nothing we can’t get through.


“I’ll put Cloud in our family too.”


“I appreciate that.”

After Cloud thanked Marlene’s innocent offer with his usual serious expression, he glanced at Tifa. She nodded a little.


Would this complicate things?


Tifa decided that she would stop worrying about the relationship between the two of them.

This is on p4 and 5. I believe that she refers friends as family because at first she thinks the family is going to be her, Marlene and Barret. Cloud is included after this.

Clearly her and Cloud's relationship isn't defined as friendship only if you look at the line it's more complicated than that.

It had been several months since they opened the bar. There was a call from Cloud, who was out collecting provisions. He wanted to know if it would be ok to print up a lifetime voucher to eat and drink for free at Seventh Heaven, in exchange for something. Tifa agreed, never asking what it was for. She knew Cloud must have wanted something desperately if he was offering to trade something like that.

This is again not something you do with someone who's only a friend, you do this with someone with whom you share finances and who gets the last say: if you're not in couple, you don't push this kind of demand onto friends. I mean a LIFETIME VOUCHER TO EAT AND DRINK FOR FREE??? Hello this is the time Cloud intends to spend living by Tifa's side. I don't know why people are ignoring this.

He also acts like he did something wrong for doing things behind her back. She feels they are becoming a real family - it's not only the bond between themselves, but also with Marlene!

People who bring up CoT to disprove CT really don't know anything about living together with a SO.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Searching for "family" in CoT:
On p4:




This is on p4 and 5. I believe that she refers friends as family because at first she thinks the family is going to be her, Marlene and Barret. Cloud is included after this.

Clearly her and Cloud's relationship isn't defined as friendship only if you look at the line it's more complicated than that.



This is again not something you do with someone who's only a friend, you do this with someone with whom you share finances and who gets the last say: if you're not in couple, you don't push this kind of demand onto friends. I mean a LIFETIME VOUCHER TO EAT AND DRINK FOR FREE??? Hello this is the time Cloud intends to spend living by Tifa's side. I don't know why people are ignoring this.

He also acts like he did something wrong for doing things behind her back. She feels they are becoming a real family - it's not only the bond between themselves, but also with Marlene!

People who bring up CoT to disprove CT really don't know anything about living together with a SO.

Makes sense to me.

If you step back and think about it, it’s an odd situation Cloud and Tifa are in. They’re starting a relationship and cohabitation, but they’re also closely tied to Barret and Marlene ( Tifa always struck me as like this aunt to Marlene who takes care of her like a mother would. If you know someone with siblings with large age gaps, it feels familiar ).

Cloud, who comes from a single parent household, may not be used to that type of family structure but he’s willing to try because Tifa. Future passages back that up because Cloud, outside of depression, guilt, and a terminal disease, tries his best to function in that setting. He stumbles and bumbles his way through, but he still goes for it.

While I’d really like to see a glimpse into the future where they’ve got it all figured out, I do appreciate the story trying to put on display how hard it would be to go back to a normal life after the world nearly gets cracked in half.

 

[LNK]

You know, I've been speculating we're going to start PT3 with Cloud as the main POV character again, and then obvious switch to Tifa once Cloud leaves the party, but what if we start with Tifa as the lead character out of battle instead of Cloud from the get go? Let her be the lead through the entire Icicle/ Gaea/ Crater/ Junon /??? / Mideel sequence, really drive home that we're losing control of Cloud and that this is Tifa's game as much as his, really.

That is actually a pretty cool idea. I really dislike that Cloud has to be in the party most of the time in ff7, so this would be a good way of mixing things up a bit more

 

[abzy1200]

I mean a LIFETIME VOUCHER TO EAT AND DRINK FOR FREE??? Hello this is the time Cloud intends to spend living by Tifa's side

I swear he trades this for the bike and the voucher isn't for him, no?

It's definitely an indication of their bond that he can ask for something like this, but it's not really an indication of how long he intends to spend by her side.

When Tifa and Cloud were alone, Cloud said, “It’s not like you to be troubled by your thoughts.”

“It’s… Just the way I am.”

“No. You’re much more cheerful and strong. If you’ve forgotten the way you were then, I’ll be there to remind you.”

“You really will?”

“Probably,” Cloud said blushing.

I think this is a much better indication of Cloud's plans. He's basically said here that he'll always be there for her. And Cloud obviously knows the implication since he blushes, he doesn't mean it in a platonic way.