SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
Makes sense to me.

If you step back and think about it, it’s an odd situation Cloud and Tifa are in. They’re starting a relationship and cohabitation, but they’re also closely tied to Barret and Marlene ( Tifa always struck me as like this aunt to Marlene who takes care of her like a mother would. If you know someone with siblings with large age gaps, it feels familiar ).

Cloud, who comes from a single parent household, may not be used to that type of family structure but he’s willing to try because Tifa. Future passages back that up because Cloud, outside of depression, guilt, and a terminal disease, tries his best to function in that setting. He stumbles and bumbles his way through, but he still goes for it.

While I’d really like to see a glimpse into the future where they’ve got it all figured out, I do appreciate the story trying to put on display how hard it would be to go back to a normal life after the world nearly gets cracked in half.
Honestly, this is why I like how they are in CoT and AC. Obligatory I have my complaints, but it just feels more mature and real to me. It adds a lot of depth to the aftermath and their relationship in a realistic way.

But I have no problem begging for something more light hearted like you said, where they have it all figured out. I think we have enough material showing us their guilt, trauma, moving on, etc…
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I swear he trades this for the bike and the voucher isn't for him, no?

It's definitely an indication of their bond that he can ask for something like this, but it's not really an indication of how long he intends to spend by her side.
The voucher is for the guy he buys (aka trades) the bike for.

And of course he intends to remain by her side forever; you don't push a lifetime voucher for freebies on someone you don't want to stay with. But yes, this discussion you've copied is also showing this. At the end of the day, Cloud loves Tifa and has no intention of ever leaving her side. This is also why he's so afraid of losing her and the kids.
 

abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
So uh what's the deal with Leslie and why do I keep seeing people draw conclusions about Cloti from his story.

I know it's got something to with lovers reuniting, but what exactly is so similar about his story to Cloti that it's a reasonable place to look for crafting theories?

I never really did his sidequests and I wasn't really paying much attention to him the last time I played remake so...
 

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
So uh what's the deal with Leslie and why do I keep seeing people draw conclusions about Cloti from his story.

I know it's got something to with lovers reuniting, but what exactly is so similar about his story to Cloti that it's a reasonable place to look for crafting theories?

I never really did his sidequests and I wasn't really paying much attention to him the last time I played remake so...
I’m going to assume it’s because in Rebirth his side quest is a Tifa side quest and it’s about him finding Merle, his lover. She gave him a reunion flower necklace in Remake.

So reuniting lovers = Tifa and Cloud link (?)
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
I’m going to assume it’s because in Rebirth his side quest is a Tifa side quest and it’s about him finding Merle, his lover. She gave him a reunion flower necklace in Remake.

So reuniting lovers = Tifa and Cloud link (?)
He's very linked to Tifa always part of her quests or scenes. He is looking for his lost lover and does the hand over heart pose that Tifa does. So he's kind off a mirror of Tifa looking for Cloud and will probably be the one giving her hope when Cloud is missing. Post meteor he finds his wife and has a kid with her
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
He's very linked to Tifa always part of her quests or scenes. He is looking for his lost lover and does the hand over heart pose that Tifa does. So he's kind off a mirror of Tifa looking for Cloud and will probably be the one giving her hope when Cloud is missing. Post meteor he finds his wife and has a kid with her
Tifa’s got a soft spot for separated lovers and people aiming to get someone else’s attention romantically.

I think it’s The Kids Are Alright where Leslie and Merle first show up in the compilation. Tethering them to Tifa and Cloud is seen as a roundabout way of soft confirming their relationship around ACC, right along with Denzel’s parents looking very much like Cloud and Tifa.

If my understanding is right, then the theory is that Nojima surrounding Cloud and Tifa with this stuff is way of saying they’re basically married with kids without making either too much older or putting Tifa in a situation where she’s unlikely to string a 10-hit combo when needed.

An interesting solution, if true, but it is still frustratingly obtuse when you don’t just straight up say Cloud and Tifa are common law married.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I mean it’s not that deep; it’s just that his quest to find his lover mirrors Tifa’s to find the real Cloud.

I’m pretty sure we’ll see Leslie and Merle reunite just like Cloud and Tifa will.

There’s also some old LTD blood there since in Remake CAs insisted that the Leslie wanting to reunite mirrored CA (that Cloud thought about Aerith when he saw the pendant). But with Leslie being tied to a Tifa quest it is clear that this was not the intent.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I mean it’s not that deep; it’s just that his quest to find his lover mirrors Tifa’s to find the real Cloud.

I’m pretty sure we’ll see Leslie and Merle reunite just like Cloud and Tifa will.

There’s also some old LTD blood there since in Remake CAs insisted that the Leslie wanting to reunite mirrored CA (that Cloud thought about Aerith when he saw the pendant). But with Leslie being tied to a Tifa quest it is clear that this was not the intent.
I've said it several times now, but Square has a habit of putting out something, CA has tried to claim it as 'theirs' and putting information in a sequel of some sort to crush that notion. KH, Dissidia, even the Remake project now.
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
I've said it several times now, but Square has a habit of putting out something, CA has tried to claim it as 'theirs' and putting information in a sequel of some sort to crush that notion. KH, Dissidia, even the Remake project now.
I think Leslie will play a part in the main story of part 3 he had his scene in remake so it makes sense with Tifa searching for Cloud. The do keep trying to claim the reunion flower aswell somehow. Despite the fact its so obvious they put It outside Tifa's house
 

Ryeleigh

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Rye
There’s also some old LTD blood there since in Remake CAs insisted that the Leslie wanting to reunite mirrored CA (that Cloud thought about Aerith when he saw the pendant). But with Leslie being tied to a Tifa quest it is clear that this was not the intent.
I liked how they implied that all the resolutions happened in Remake; Cloud said "I can feel her calling me", most likely referring to Aerith's Not Our Aerith resolution, Barret got an "apparently, you were loitering in a rather lovely flower garden", and Tifa got to explain the reunion flower in the sewers. It would be nice if they did the same with the Rebirth GS dates but I guess that would be more difficult, lol.

As an aside, the pacing in Remake is really funny.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Cloud said "I can feel her calling me"
He actually didn't say that in JP - I don't remember right now because the FR was botched too. Either way, Cloud feels Jenova's calling, not Aerith's during this whole part up until they see Sephiroth with Jenova in the Shinra Tower.
 

Ryeleigh

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Rye
He actually didn't say that in JP - I don't remember right now because the FR was botched too. Either way, Cloud feels Jenova's calling, not Aerith's during this whole part up until they see Sephiroth with Jenova in the Shinra Tower.
Ah, that's too bad. I thought it was a cute reference to Aerithr's resolution. :(
 

frosty

Pro Adventurer
AKA
The Snowman
So uh what's the deal with Leslie and why do I keep seeing people draw conclusions about Cloti from his story.

I know it's got something to with lovers reuniting, but what exactly is so similar about his story to Cloti that it's a reasonable place to look for crafting theories?

I never really did his sidequests and I wasn't really paying much attention to him the last time I played remake so...
I don't really see it but think alot of people draw parallels between Leslie and Evan with Cloud?

Leslie = reunion flower, looking for, not giving up on, reuniting with someone you love, Tifa's quest line etc

Evan = Adopting a kid with Kyrie, Cloud essentially saying his situation is the same as Evan, Kyrie, and Bits i.e. a "real family"

Both seem a bit of a stretch to me but i always did find The kids are alright to be pretty strange. Like it was released after AC, where there was no other title to promote, it didn't feature much of the beloved og characters and just then suddenly some random casual confirmation that yes, Cloud does indeed think he is Dad, Tifa is Mom, Denzel and Marlene are their "real" kids
 

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
Both seem a bit of a stretch to me but i always did find The kids are alright to be pretty strange. Like it was released after AC, where there was no other title to promote, it didn't feature much of the beloved og characters and just then suddenly some random casual confirmation that yes, Cloud does indeed think he is Dad, Tifa is Mom, Denzel and Marlene are their "real" kids
Yeah when I think of these kind of connections/theories I think they’re cute but not something I personally read into too much.

As far as TKAA, I was surprised to find what Cloud says about family to be at the very end of the book. I was hoping to read a little something after AC and it turned out being just a little bit after everyone is healed on the movie lmao.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
I don't really see it but think alot of people draw parallels between Leslie and Evan with Cloud?

Leslie = reunion flower, looking for, not giving up on, reuniting with someone you love, Tifa's quest line etc

Evan = Adopting a kid with Kyrie, Cloud essentially saying his situation is the same as Evan, Kyrie, and Bits i.e. a "real family"

Both seem a bit of a stretch to me but i always did find The kids are alright to be pretty strange. Like it was released after AC, where there was no other title to promote, it didn't feature much of the beloved og characters and just then suddenly some random casual confirmation that yes, Cloud does indeed think he is Dad, Tifa is Mom, Denzel and Marlene are their "real" kids
Well there's a reason why I say that TKAA's ending is the perfect ACC ending. I think Nojima must have felt it was missing too and when he was tasked with this book he must have added because it would give a true closure to Cloud and Tifa's story. In TKAA we're definitely closer to Remake trilogy!Cloud, that's for sure.

And yes, parallels are made with CT to give more weight to CT with the other canon pairs they're describing. Nojima pretty much works by entangling his pairs together, and drawing comparisons. These pairs stand on their own - especially in FFVII case for CT and ZA - but he enjoys adding strokes to them to connect them.
 

abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
Leslie = reunion flower, looking for, not giving up on, reuniting with someone you love, Tifa's quest line etc
From what I can tell, Leslie's situation feels more Zerith-y than Cloti.

Especially with the reunion pin in the dream date. Leslie has one of those, no?

It being a Tifa quest is a bit of a curveball, though.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
From what I can tell, Leslie's situation feels more Zerith-y than Cloti.

Especially with the reunion pin in the dream date. Leslie has one of those, no?

It being a Tifa quest is a bit of a curveball, though.
I mean, how? Leslie doesn't know Aerith nor Zack, but he does know Cloud and Tifa. It's them who help him out, and... it's them who have the strongest reunion theme.
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
From what I can tell, Leslie's situation feels more Zerith-y than Cloti.

Especially with the reunion pin in the dream date. Leslie has one of those, no?

It being a Tifa quest is a bit of a curveball, though.
Separation and reunion can apply to both CT and ZA, just in different ways.

I think it’s less that the sidequest subplot is a 1:1 parallel and more that Tifa is directly sympathetic to Merle in her desire for Leslie to find her, and in Leslie for his vengeance blinding him to the message Merle left him.

Wouldn’t be shocked if this thread ends with Merle actually going and finding Leslie since that seems to be the theme of those being guided by the reunion flower ( it starts with one person pursuing and fighting to return and ends with the other party having to go where they are instead in an interesting role reversal )
 

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
AKA
SackyBoy
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Some people really need humbling in part 3 and to get rid of an ego thinking they are the only smart people to grasp the hidden meaning in each scene XD
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They really are so shipper brained that they think a friend comforting someone crying would be called a one night mistake equivalent to a last stand?
 

Xannis

Rookie Adventurer
View attachment 17115

Some people really need humbling in part 3 and to get rid of an ego thinking they are the only smart people to grasp the hidden meaning in each scene XD
View attachment 17116
They really are so shipper brained that they think a friend comforting someone crying would be called a one night mistake equivalent to a last stand?


Just curious what part of Reddit that is on. I'm pretty active over there and hadn't seen that one.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
View attachment 17115

Some people really need humbling in part 3 and to get rid of an ego thinking they are the only smart people to grasp the hidden meaning in each scene XD
On the one hand, it's sort of hilarious that the side that doesn't grasp that switching over to Zack while Aerith is considering her feelings for Cloud is telling us about those feelings, but also that their official position is "Ignore the text, there's -special subtext-" is now the quiet part out loud.

View attachment 17116
They really are so shipper brained that they think a friend comforting someone crying would be called a one night mistake equivalent to a last stand?
Isn't Midnight Mistake when you get wrapped up in the moment and jump the relationship? The trope isn't something you necessarily regret, it's more like doing something you didn't mean to. Like the trope of waking up in bed next to your crush and not remembering how you got there.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Isn't Midnight Mistake when you get wrapped up in the moment and jump the relationship? The trope isn't something you necessarily regret, it's more like doing something you didn't mean to. Like the trope of waking up in bed next to your crush and not remembering how you got there.
UltiPlus2_TurquoiseHammer.png

Translated by TurquoiseHammer (it's the Ultimania Plus, the one where they described the scenes). This is why it's called a mistake, it's because Cloud is feeling satisfied (and yes the Japanese text implies a sort of sexual pleasure, the "oops I did it too early" kind of). Cloud is taking too much pleasure in consoling Tifa and be her hero. That's why it's a midnight mistake.

But yeah I wonder why people see this scene as romantic when it's described like a peak romance book. Yeah I really wonder why lol.
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
View attachment 17115

Some people really need humbling in part 3 and to get rid of an ego thinking they are the only smart people to grasp the hidden meaning in each scene XD
View attachment 17116
They really are so shipper brained that they think a friend comforting someone crying would be called a one night mistake equivalent to a last stand?
I’m just keeping some of the more antagonistic ones I’ve seen because I can already smell that when part 3 drops, half these types will switch and claim “they always knew it was going to end with Cloud and Tifa lul”

People trying to follow along for the first time and coming to whichever conclusion is part of the narrative so I have mercy on them. Call me an idiot however…

But yeah, consoling a friend is the “mistake” and not oh I dunno hugging her too hard so she says you’re hurting her? Cloud “not interested” Strife hugs someone too hard? I wonder what that hints at.
 

ViolaaFox

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Viola A. Fox
View attachment 17115

Some people really need humbling in part 3 and to get rid of an ego thinking they are the only smart people to grasp the hidden meaning in each scene XD
View attachment 17116
They really are so shipper brained that they think a friend comforting someone crying would be called a one night mistake equivalent to a last stand?
Is this from the Clerith subreddit or the actual FFVII one? Because it's even more obvious in the remake that the story is developing Cloti.
 
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