SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[GamerSkull]

I think the main group needs to feel Aerith’s absence so I feel like if she shows up it should be from the shadows. I think we’ll mostly see her in the same capacity we saw Zack in this game.

Personally, I’m thinking we should control Cloud at the beginning and once again see the build up to Northern Crater. Maybe Cid might want to stop by Rocket Town before they go or something.

Then I actually think we need to feel Cloud’s absence for a while so I think it’s okay if he’s in his mako coma for a bit. And then when he comes back we still have enough with Wutai and wrapping up other things that we spend a good time with real Cloud. Maybe we’ll finally also see new stuff like meeting Zangan after this bit so it won’t feel like Cloud just comes back right before the climax of the story.

 

[Shadowstorm]

That is a good point about feeling Cloud's absence. I guess I'm just worried about them leaning into that a little too far. When I played the OG the section where I was stuck playing as Cid was by far the biggest drag of the game, and then once real Cloud came in I felt like I got barely any time with him, which is something I do think contributed to public perception of Cloud's character. But perhaps Wutai alone will be enough to fix that this time around.

I do think they're merging the two Rocket Town visits into one though. I think they'll wanna start of with a bang at Northern Crater, and depending on how many mechanics are built around the Highwind they might wanna bring that in ASAP. Plus it's an easy away to avoid that "leave as soon as you get there" feeling just about every location had in the OG.

Also yeah they gotta bring in Zangan somewhere near the end, ToTP built that up for Tifa too much for it not to be a thing

 

[Hellenic]

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Yeah i heard Anakins voice everytime i heard Cloud say that.

 

[GamerSkull]

That is a good point about feeling Cloud's absence. I guess I'm just worried about them leaning into that a little too far. When I played the OG the section where I was stuck playing as Cid was by far the biggest drag of the game, and then once real Cloud came in I felt like I got barely any time with him, which is something I do think contributed to public perception of Cloud's character. But perhaps Wutai alone will be enough to fix that this time around.

I do think they're merging the two Rocket Town visits into one though. I think they'll wanna start of with a bang at Northern Crater, and depending on how many mechanics are built around the Highwind they might wanna bring that in ASAP. Plus it's an easy away to avoid that "leave as soon as you get there" feeling just about every location had in the OG.

Also yeah they gotta bring in Zangan somewhere near the end, ToTP built that up for Tifa too much for it not to be a thing

I think in that case, we might spend more time in the Icicle Inn area so that the Northern Cave stuff doesn’t happen TOO soon. Who knows, maybe we’ll get to revisit Modeoheim.

That’s also where Cloud and Zack met so they might do something with that.

 

[Hellenic]

Isn't it way more common for this type of game to consider everything canon than to consider nothing canon? I mean Rebirth goes as far as to reference Tifa winning an optional mini game chain, I think it's safe to assume the canon route would be to just do everything

There's definite continuity with all quests and the dates while not canon necessarily do reflect themselves in a way that fit with the canon if you do get them. The only stuff i would not call canon in the game necessarily are the obviously out of character dialogue picks you can do sometimes like Cloud yelling at Aerith in the bonfire scene.

 

[Nancy]

We are seeing Cloud's POV though. I'm mixxed on the memories being Tifa's, even if I think they should be, because you know the Weapons picked up her own little memories to get there, but the fact that we see everything from Cloud's POV is intriguing to me. Or maybe both memories are just tied together, it's Cloud and Tifa's memories.


I am fully with you, I don't think Aerith will show to anyone in the party under this form. Tifa is very depressive by the end of OG, and that's partly because of Aerith's death too. For CoT and ACC to happen, Tifa and the others shouldn't feel Aerith's presence; in fact, it's because that they don't that they feel her loss, right up until Cloud is saved by her at the end of OG, which gives its hopeful note.

Rebirth has already cut the player from feeling Aerith's death, so p3 should insist on that.

It did look like it could be from Cloud's pov during when he was watching them about to head off to Mt. Nibel and when Cloud was calling her to come back. And then the water tower could be Tifa's memories but it's like you said, both memories are tied together.

I don't know about the others if they felt Aerith's presence but in CoT, Tifa heard someone asking her question and then ACC she felt/knew Aerith is around by her line 'Somehow, I knew you there' but that was it.

 

[Hellenic]

I remember playing with the full intention of wanting Tifa as a date but my OCD made it so I had to do all the sidequests and try to be as nice as possible to everyone. So by the time I got to it, I fully expected not to get her. But I did, after doing all the sidequests. But I think I got the beach fight and clothes bump for Tifa so that was probably what did it.

I think it was also probably due to dialogue as I think there may have been once instance where I gave Aerith a middle response.

I had to avoid 1 Red quest to basically guarantee Tifa in my first run. He was getting a little bit ahead of Tifa in affection thanks to being frontloaded with his quests unlike the rest of the characters.

Well, she was talking about Aerith.

You know, I still sorta subscribe to it being a reference to Aerith since she says "older woman" in the OG. But I think a lot of CAs treat it as fact so no matter what, Claudia is referring to someone like Aerith in their eyes.

Let's be honest, they probably would be okay with Aerith calling Cloud out for his behavior. Just not Tifa.

At best i always read this as that red herring to make you think it's talking about Aerith with the obvious older girl remarks, while it turns out that stuff she said fits the box better with Tifa by the end. Or maybe just a shippy translation decision to spice up the LTD for the english audience perhaps?

I think maybe part of it is that they, understandably, try to be above ship wars, and as part of that end up brushing the romance aside as unimportant alltogether. Which obviously just kneecaps their ability to understand the story since romance is in fact a central part of Cloud's character arc.

This is very much it. They want no part in the shipping wars so they try to avoid all the romantic subplot topics in favor of the things they consider more interesting for theories.

I think why we are seeing stargazer heights and sector 7/seventh heaven there is bc it's Tifa's memories we are going through. I will be surprised if stargazer heights and seventh heaven place will be there in Cloud's subconscious too when he has only been there for 2 or 3 days before the sector was brought down while Tifa has been there for 5 yrs

I mean, i could totally see them having become important places for him in a short time span solely because it's the places where he got to reunite and hang out with Tifa again.

I think in that case, we might spend more time in the Icicle Inn area so that the Northern Cave stuff doesn’t happen TOO soon. Who knows, maybe we’ll get to revisit Modeoheim.

That’s also where Cloud and Zack met so they might do something with that.

Modeoheim would be a nice way to give us more flashes to tease about real Cloud when he met Zack for the first time and give us another Me?Gongaga take.

 

[Nancy]

You got nothing to be sorry about, don't worry!

I was talking about the previous installments actually. Personally I was pretty happy with how they were written in Rebirth but I can understand not everyone feeling the same.

Anyway, I think that's one of those things where you have to assume there's limits on her ability to appear to people. If you go down the path of asking why she didn't apppear at x time you're also gonna have to wonder why she didn't stop Cloud's survivor's guilt in its tracks earlier or why she waited so long to cure Geostigma. The Doylist explanation is obviously that the story needed it to happen later for the drama, but it's not really gone into in-universe. Though, in this case it has been established that even the Cetra can only stick around as ghosts for limited amount of time after passing, and there's a specific connection through touching the lifestream itself, so both of those would explain why Aerith would be able to appear to Tifa in that moment specifically and not at any point after.

That being said I'm very much on team "remake AC/C in game form" so I absolutely would not say no to Aerith showing up in front of Tifa one last time there.

I kinda like how they were written in rebirth also, them talking to each other, Tifa confiding in Aerith, comforting Aerith, etc haha

When I first watch ACC I didn't understand and wasn't happy why Aerith took so long to cure the geostigma but after reading Lifestream white I realized why she took so long haha

If they really do get to do a remake ACC I would really like Tifa and Aerith to have a proper goodbye

 

[Nancy]

I mean, i could totally see them having become important places for him in a short time span solely because it's the places where he got to reunite and hang out with Tifa again.

Yeah bc Cloud didn't know Wedge, Jessie and Biggs that much and they became important to him in a short time span

 

[GamerSkull]

Modeoheim would be a nice way to give us more flashes to tease about real Cloud when he met Zack for the first time and give us another Me?Gongaga take.

I also hope we see Banora as well. Or rather, the ruins of Banora. It might be cool as a small subplot for Cloud to learn more about the Buster Sword so it plays into his decision to memorialize it in Zack’s honor. Even as just a side quest this might be cool.

Banora is around Mideel IIRC so we can also visit there during Tifa’s search maybe?

 

[Reaper3Delta]

I also hope we see Banora as well. Or rather, the ruins of Banora. It might be cool as a small subplot for Cloud to learn more about the Buster Sword so it plays into his decision to memorialize it in Zack’s honor. Even as just a side quest this might be cool.

Banora is around Mideel IIRC so we can also visit there during Tifa’s search maybe?

IIRC one of the Devs mentioned He would like to add locations from CCR in to the FF7R world, we all see in Pt.3 what happens.

 

[youffie]

Okay so, full disclaimer: I absolutely adore the Lifestream sequence, it's my favorite scene from the OG by far and I understand why people are bothered by this apparent call to shove so many scenes, themes and characters in what is a very private, intimate moment between Cloud and Tifa that is so unique in tone, depth and presentation. I remember after Remake people started saying that Zack could easily replace Tifa there because he knew what happened in Nibelheim and it really, really annoyed me because it completely misses the point. So I do get it, and I understand that there's a lot of bad faith either from shipping or from people who are uncomfortable with the idea that at the center of their cool videogame with swords and magic balls there's actually (gasp!) a very delicate love story.

However – and I mean no disrespect when I say this – this opposite belief that the Lifestream sequence, of all things, is going to be recreated basically untouched sounds a lot like me around Rebirh Gongaga, where I said out loud "well at least they got the whispers out of their system tho" mere seconds before a wild whisper appeared (true story)

I also don’t think that it should be a group project, but I want to play devil's advocate and say that I don't think that to include a reflection on Zack's and Aerith's death there is inherently a bad idea, especially in the context of the expanded Compilation. I think most of all Cloud has to process the fact that their deaths were not his fault, much like Tifa almost dying twice on him was not his fault (his original trauma manifesting time and time again). There is a thematic link there, there's setup for it imho in Remake and especially Rebirth, and it still all begins and ends with Tifa. Like all things, it comes down to execution and balance, for which I'm much less confident, but it's really not such an absurd idea from what they've presented so far.

It would also be weird even for them to create this entire Lifestream subplot (which revolves heavily around Zack and now Aerith) and then do absolutely nothing with it while, you know, we're in the Lifestream. I will go one step further: it's very possible that most of the bigger additions have been written in function of the Lifestream sequence itself. After all, if the Lifestream sequence is the emotional core of the OG, then it makes sense that it should be the emotional core of the Remake saga as well, if not of the Compilation as a whole; and that can't happen if the new elements and themes are not taken into account. To ignore them completely would actually lessen the impact of the scene at this point, and it's just not something I can see them doing, considering their... massimalistic approach, let's call it that.

If you ask me, the real threat to the future Lifestream sequence are not Zack and Aerith. It's their bad habit of having their cake and eating it too with wanting you to feel super bad for these characters but ALSO LOOK THEY'RE KINDA FINE BE HAPPY NOW, it's the camera that feels like it's on coke in a desperate attempt to remind you that this is in fact very dramatic, and big moment after big moment with no time to breathe and ten thousand boss battles back to back until you forget what you're actually supposed to feel.

The loudness worries me far more than Cloud and Tifa processing together the death of someone irreplaceable that they both feel like they have failed.

 

[Eerie]

I have tons of arguments against this, but as I feel a headache incoming, all I'm gonna say is: look, the Lifestream scene is the scene where Tifa becomes a true heroine, and pushing ZA into this segment would take away from her role. She didn't have a role in Aerith's death, and so Aerith should not be there in her grand scene (and Zack only as a memory).

The LS scene is not only the emotional core of the game, it's also the climax where you learn what truly happened during the Nibelheim incident. This can only be uncovered because Cloud opens up to Tifa. Up until now, he's only opened up to Tifa and Tifa only. What would be the point in pushing a scene that's got nothing to do with them in the LS scene? Cloud opens up so they can find the truth. Tifa also confronts her fears of him not being "her" Cloud - interestingly they had a lot of intimate conversations during Rebirth about their past, but p3 will begin with Tifa losing faith until the NC, where Sephiroth will exploit her fear.So what will be left after exploring their memories? The answer is feelings, and the reasons why Cloud acted the way he did (why did he follow her to the mountain and shut up after the village blamed him, why did he want to join SOLDIER). Especially since the black Whispers seem to be doing around the scene where everything happens. In short, Nojima's been preparing us for the Lifestream scene, and all the hints are "this is going to be a CT moment".

As for ZA's deaths, they deserve to have their moment each, separated, so we can mourn them too properly. If you push those into the LS scene it will dilute not only the LS scene but also their own deaths. Rebirth never let us stop and mourn, I hope p3 will because it's one of the big problems Rebirth had, story-wise, and many fans agree.

 

[youffie]

Look, if it were up to me, I would have dealt with a lot of things very differently; if it wasn't clear, I'd be much happier with a simpler scene that follows the original more closely. I absolutely agree that there's a real possibility that these big moments might cannibalize each other if all put together in the Lifestream sequence… it was actually my first thought after finishing Rebirth, and I wrote it on these very forums in my first post after years. So it's not necessarily about what I want or what I think is the best possible way to remake the scene, but more about what I feel they might do, given the elements that I've seen presented.

Basically, if the question is, do I think that these new elements are going to interact with the Lifestream sequence, it doesn't feel as far-fetched as you're making it out to be. It also doesn't have to be either the content of the Lifestream scene are exactly the same or Tifa's role is entirely ruined or significantly weakened.

This idea that it's just people wanting to detract from Tifa that kinda feel this coming... does not feel very fair, and is honestly the kind of "pick a side and stick to the line" attitude that turns me off fandom these days. I didn't think I needed to say it, but I say all this as a huge Tifa (and Cloti) fan, and a big part of that is precisely this specifc scene.

 

[Shadowstorm]

I do agree that, on some level, it could make sense to put those moments in the LS and that that could be done without overshadowing Cloud and Tifa's moment. However, that is still a lot of emotional moments to pack into one chapter out of an at least 40+ hour game. Also going back to my previous point: That would leave them with Cloud's entire character arc resolved the moment they get out of the Lifestream. Maybe that worked in the original where it was all one game and that scene happened near the end but I think it would be really clunky here. The way I see it their options are

1. pad out the beginning of the game before they lose Cloud, and thereby sacrificing what a strong opening Icicle Inn/Northern Crater could be and risk losing the momentum they've built up with Cloud's deteriorating mental state.
2. pad out the time that Cloud is gone, and making this a game where you don't have control of the main protagonist for half of it. Which is very different from being away from him for a few hours in the second half of a shorter game.
3. have the Lifestream relatively early and have the main protagonist remain almost static for half the game because his arc is completely resolved already

Is it possible they'll go one of those routes? Absolutely! But I still think it makes more sense to let the weight of Zack and Aerith's deaths sit for a bit longer and allow that to be resolved in the Forgotten Capital. That's right before they end up defeating Hojo in Midgar, which would be the time to have Zack and Aerith fresh on their minds, and the end of the game is close by then too, it's a way stronger point in the story to place it imo.

Edit: also in the spirit of remaining true to the OG it would kind of be filling the same role as getting the Zack flashback when you go back to Nibelheim, no?

 

[GamerSkull]

I think the LS sequence will mostly be about Cloud’s identity. So it will be about the Nibelheim incident. We’ll get some stuff in the Sector 7 slums because he is there soon after reuniting with Tifa but most of it will be prior to the Nibelheim incident, I feel. Especially since it’s supposed to affirm Cloud was a real person before that and that he kept his promise to Tifa.

Seeing Zack and Aerith’s deaths will happen separately. Probably around a revisit to Nibelheim and the Forgotten City.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I absolutely believe the LS scene will get expanded because half of the equation got expansions: Zack and Tifa.

ToTP basically gives Tifa’s perspective on their childhood years, expanding on more of her internal perspective during the time covered in the LS scene from Cloud’s internal pov.

The component people seem to be downplaying is perhaps the biggest thing added in the ReTrilogy as a whole: Cloud speaking for himself.

Cloud’s thoughts and feelings during the three major setpieces is the true point of the LS sequence, and the fact that he shares them with the one person who’s thoughts and opinions truly matter to him: Tifa. The emotional theme of the whole thing is the courage of opening yourself up to someone else, truly making yourself vulnerable to them.

CC gave us Zack’s perspective on the Nibelheim Incident, I’m going to go out on a limb and say Kalm is based loosely on Tifa’s recollection of the event ( minus a few things of course ), and the LS scene is when we finally see it from Cloud’s pov.

I absolutely think they’ll put combat sections in here even though I don’t think it necessary but the temptation of fighting off whispers and such is unavoidable imo. Will the memory of Zack help Tifa out in the Nibelheim recollection? Yeah probably. Will you see signs of Aerith keeping her and Cloud from danger in the physical LS? Yeah probably. But in Cloud’s subconscious? Tifa and Tifa alone interacting with his subconscious.

I’m more convinced, however, that we will witness a major death to Cloud and it’s going to be Sephiroth killing his mom and how he ended up knocked out in front of his burning house. I’ll even bet that the setup and emotions will look oddly similar to Zack and Aerith’s respective death scenes.

What’s there offers plenty of room to expand and show us who Cloud is and why.

 

[Eerie]

Look, if it were up to me, I would have dealt with a lot of things very differently; if it wasn't clear, I'd be much happier with a simpler scene that follows the original more closely. I absolutely agree that there's a real possibility that these big moments might cannibalize each other if all put together in the Lifestream sequence… it was actually my first thought after finishing Rebirth, and I wrote it on these very forums in my first post after years. So it's not necessarily about what I want or what I think is the best possible way to remake the scene, but more about what I feel they might do, given the elements that I've seen presented.

Basically, if the question is, do I think that these new elements are going to interact with the Lifestream sequence, it doesn't feel as far-fetched as you're making it out to be. It also doesn't have to be either the content of the Lifestream scene are exactly the same or Tifa's role is entirely ruined or significantly weakened.

This idea that it's just people wanting to detract from Tifa that kinda feel this coming... does not feel very fair, and is honestly the kind of "pick a side and stick to the line" attitude that turns me off fandom these days. I didn't think I needed to say it, but I say all this as a huge Tifa (and Cloti) fan, and a big part of that is precisely this specifc scene.

I understand perfectly how you feel because you're not the first person I know who thinks that way.

But I still think that it's a writing error Nojima isn't going to make; this is Tifa's moment and Cloud's moment AND CT's moment. The Lifestream scene is a huge love confession so to me, ZA have nothing to do with this. We've seen Zack failing to heal true Cloud in the worlds he was in in Rebirth; we've seen Aerith unable to reach out to him - even in her dream world, she does not meet true!Cloud. It's SOLDIER!Cloud who awakes. And it's an Aerith who is already way more powerful than "our" Aerith, for she is dead and understands her powers way better.

Basically we've seen that ZA cannot reach true!Cloud. Zack's death influenced Cloud's persona, but how was it treated in the OG? In a separate event. In Rebirth, we see Aerith's death influencing Cloud's mental troubles, but I think that just like the OG, ZA will have their deaths treated separately. I just don't see how their deaths would make Cloud believe he is himself, because that's something very personal. And ZA being around for the LS scene also doesn't make any sense, unless they retcon the fact that all of the LS scene happens... in Cloud's subconscious. We can think that they'll protect them from outside though, but inside it's going to be only CT for... well this is a love confession.

 

[GamerSkull]

Personally, I think the Lifestream sequence is supposed to be a very intimate scene and overcrowding it with more characters can hurt it. It’s supposed to signify to Cloud that he is in fact real, and that Tifa still has faith in him. To Tifa, it signifies that Cloud has always been there for her even when she herself did not realize it.

Honestly, the only outside presence I can accept in it is Aerith, but only in the form of the white whispers and only that they are battling with Sephiroth’s whispers in the distance. Even then, I personally would prefer to be without those too but I can at least accept them. Aerith herself should never appear. Same for Zack. I’d rather he have scenes with them seperate to the Lifestream sequence so we can actually focus on what happened to them.

 

[Nancy]

I feel like to those who want ZA death scene to happen during CT's moment in the lifestream gotta think that ZA had their own different place/moment where we see what really happen to them

For instance, we get to know how Zack dies from revisiting Nibelheim, which I hope it isn't optional this time and everyone gets to see what happens to him if you haven't played CCR yet

Aerith's, we get to see hers when we go back to the FC to get a key and witness it through the waterfall after we retrieve the key

Unless they think we will just go straight back to Midgar after Real Cloud comes back, everyone goes their separate ways to see their love ones and then go fight Sephiroth/Jenova and that's it

I doubt the devs will do that. The devs would want players to be able to explore the FC because if part 3 starts off at Icicle Inn or wherever they start part 3 off at

 

[pxl_pushr]

I feel like to those who want ZA death scene to happen during CT's moment in the lifestream gotta think that ZA had their own different place/moment where we see what really happen to them

For instance, we get to know how Zack dies from revisiting Nibelheim, which I hope it isn't optional this time and everyone gets to see what happens to him if you haven't played CCR yet

Aerith's, we get to see hers when we go back to the FC to get a key and witness it through the waterfall after we retrieve the key

Unless they think we will just go straight back to Midgar after Real Cloud comes back, everyone goes their separate ways to see their love ones and then go fight Sephiroth/Jenova and that's it

I doubt the devs will do that. The devs would want players to be able to explore the FC because if part 3 starts off at Icicle Inn or wherever they start part 3 off at

Tbf I could see them moving Zack’s death reveal somewhere else, only because it was an optional thing in Nibelheim with no real reason to go back there. Unless they give us a reason to go back.

I could see them moving it around the return to Midgar, after you confront Diamond Weapon since it takes place just outside of the city. it’s then something Cloud talks with Tifa about later?

 

[GamerSkull]

Tbf I could see them moving Zack’s death reveal somewhere else, only because it was an optional thing in Nibelheim with no real reason to go back there. Unless they give us a reason to go back.

I could see them moving it around the return to Midgar, after you confront Diamond Weapon since it takes place just outside of the city. it’s then something Cloud talks with Tifa about later?

I actually hope they elaborate more on Zangan so I can see some stuff with him resulting in returning to Nibelheim. He’s alive in the OG, but I always felt like they just didn’t have time for him so his status is just… unknown.

 

[Nancy]

Tbf I could see them moving Zack’s death reveal somewhere else, only because it was an optional thing in Nibelheim with no real reason to go back there. Unless they give us a reason to go back.

I could see them moving it around the return to Midgar, after you confront Diamond Weapon since it takes place just outside of the city. it’s then something Cloud talks with Tifa about later?

Maybe they can, maybe they will leave it as it is since Vincent's last weapon is near Nibelheim

 

[Shadowstorm]

I mean, if they need us to vist a particular place they can always just change one of the Magnus Materia locations. It's not like them being In Corel/Fort Condor/Junon had any reason beyond allowing the devs to re-use existing areas. I'm personally in favor of cutting revisits down as much as possible, but if they really want to include things like that flashback and Zangan in Nibelheim in particular, just moving one of the macguffins there should do the trick

 

[Ryushikaze]

I mean, if they need us to vist a particular place they can always just change one of the Magnus Materia locations. It's not like them being In Corel/Fort Condor/Junon had any reason beyond allowing the devs to re-use existing areas. I'm personally in favor of cutting revisits down as much as possible, but if they really want to include things like that flashback and Zangan in Nibelheim in particular, just moving one of the macguffins there should do the trick

I think a Corel revisit should still happen so you can have Barret save the town and prove himself, but yeah, Fort Condor and Junon aren't strictly needed.