SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryushikaze]

Well, Junon is needed for the Gas chamber escape and whatever they do with the Scarlet fight.

I believe Ryushikaze was talking about the revisit to Junon after Real Cloud comes back.

Indeed I was. Mind you, we probably are still doing the underwater reactor sequence, It's just a cool action set piece rather than a needed narrative moment, though with the Infantry Boiz in play that might change.

 

[Nancy]

Indeed I was. Mind you, we probably are still doing the underwater reactor sequence, It's just a cool action set piece rather than a needed narrative moment, though with the Infantry Boiz in play that might change.

Does that includes the mini game that follows while trying to retrieve the materia that was stow away? Or do you think the devs will implant something else?

 

[GamerSkull]

Does that includes the mini game that follows while trying to retrieve the materia that was stow away? Or do you think the devs will implant something else?

We'll probably still get the same submarine mini-game but it will be touched up on and improved with modern day technology.

 

[Nancy]

We'll probably still get the same submarine mini-game but it will be touched up on and improved with modern day technology.

Hopefully it isn't as difficult as it was in the OG but considering I did pretty good on the Junon parade in rebirth when I was so bad at it in the OG I think I will be fine, maybe

 

[GamerSkull]

Hopefully it isn't as difficult as it was in the OG but considering I did pretty good on the Junon parade in rebirth when I was so bad at it in the OG I think I will be fine, maybe

Funnily enough, I remember it being super easy. I just spammed the "fire" button the moment the mini-game started and I was basically already done.

 

[Shadowstorm]

As long as we don't have to button mash to control a train for 10 minutes I'm happy. I straight up just went for a walk and failed on purpose for that one

 

[Nancy]

Funnily enough, I remember it being super easy. I just spammed the "fire" button the moment the mini-game started and I was basically already done.

Haha, lucky for you. I remember I gotta retry it 2 or 3 times because I keep losing sight of the ship and I'm bad at shooting games

 

[Nancy]

As long as we don't have to button mash to control a train for 10 minutes I'm happy. I straight up just went for a walk and failed on purpose for that one

Omg I still remember that one. I did what the game was telling me but it seem like I was going even faster like 'I'M GONNA CRASH'

 

[GamerSkull]

I think the most unfair one is the minigame in space. You basically have to guess the combination or you lose the Huge Materia.

I guess it’s good it doesn’t randomize so subsequent playthroughs make it easier.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I love how this thread is just the Disc 2 verse Part 3 spitballing thread now.

For the record I never found the train segment or the sub sections difficult, but I also played a hell of a lot of platformers, action games, fighting games etc. so I'm used to that nonsense. (I was also amazing at the mech fighting minigame in Xenogears). The Space minigame was tedious and I just look it up for later playthroughs.

 

[GamerSkull]

I love how this thread is just the Disc 2 verse Part 3 spitballing thread now.

For the record I never found the train segment or the sub sections difficult, but I also played a hell of a lot of platformers, action games, fighting games etc. so I'm used to that nonsense. (I was also amazing at the mech fighting minigame in Xenogears). The Space minigame was tedious and I just look it up for later playthroughs.

Yeah, we are getting somewhat off-topic.

But like you, I never had too much problem with all of those minigames. My frustration with FF7 OG has always been the RNG with the chocobo breeding. I can’t remember if it was the blue or green chocobo but one of them always took me way too long to get. And what’s more, you need a male and female to get the black chocobo so it would be extra frustrating.

Anyway, to get back on topic. If they ever release a Dirge of Cerberus remaster, let’s hope the instruction manual isn’t vague about Cloud and Tifa (even though it’s laughable that character bios are being used as “proof”.)

 

[Shadowstorm]

I love how this thread is just the Disc 2 verse Part 3 spitballing thread now.

For the record I never found the train segment or the sub sections difficult, but I also played a hell of a lot of platformers, action games, fighting games etc. so I'm used to that nonsense. (I was also amazing at the mech fighting minigame in Xenogears). The Space minigame was tedious and I just look it up for later playthroughs.

We went from complaining about how having to pretend the love triangle is up in the air keeps you from being able to properly speculating about the rest of the story to just speculating about the rest of the story it seems.

Yeah, my lack of experience with those types of games probably was a huge factor in my frustration. I was aware that there would be a lot of minigames going in but there's only so much me and my mostly rpg gaming history can take.

Anyway, to get back on topic. If they ever release a Dirge of Cerberus remaster, let’s hope the instruction manual isn’t vague about Cloud and Tifa (even though it’s laughable that character bios are being used as “proof”.)

Man, I hope so. I'm still holding out hope for them to give us some AC/C and beyond era stuff remade from scratch though not gonna lie. Just something to give Cloud and Tifa slightly more focus than they had in DoC so that there isn't any doubt about their relationship status.

 

[GamerSkull]

We went from complaining about how having to pretend the love triangle is up in the air keeps you from being able to properly speculating about the rest of the story to just speculating about the rest of the story it seems.

Yeah, my lack of experience with those types of games probably was a huge factor in my frustration. I was aware that there would be a lot of minigames going in but there's only so much me and my mostly rpg gaming history can take.

Man, I hope so. I'm still holding out hope for them to give us some AC/C and beyond era stuff remade from scratch though not gonna lie. Just something to give Cloud and Tifa slightly more focus than they had in DoC so that there isn't any doubt about their relationship status.

Yeah, I hope there is some post-AC end credits scenes for any lingering closure. They can do something similar to Kingdom Hearts which showed epilogues to all the different worlds in the end credits. And then the final one can be the regular Nanaki with cubs one.

 

[abzy1200]

I know it's redundant, and I've said it a million times before, but it's relevant to often, and it is here again -What should happen and what is actually going to happen are different things. People here are saying that the LS is a romantic, intimate scene between Cloud and Tifa almost exclusively, and in the OG, that is true, and people claim that it will remain as such in the remake because that's the intent of the scene.

...The problem with this line of logic is that, in the OG, Aerith's death was meant to invoke feelings of "reality not Hollywood", yet in Rebirth, it invokes anything but feelings of reality. What I'm trying to say here is, the original does not apply to the remake.

Yes, the LS and NC should stay scenes between Cloud and Tifa, though they aren't going to, because that's not how things have been setup.

EDIT: didn't realise I was three days late to this, embarrassing...

 

[Eerie]

Again, the only setups to the LS scenes have been CT and Tifa scenes exclusively. The hug in Remake, the Gongaga Lifestream scene + bedroom scenes + Tifa trial in Rebirth, hell even Akira’s song alludes to it.

I am just trusting what has been written so far to say the LS scene will remain an intimate scene and a love confession and thus it should only be about Cloud and Tifa.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Nothing can really be said to diminish any cynicism about how the LS scene will be treated.

At this point, it just boils down to how much you trust SE, or if you like the idea of shoving Aerith’s death into a sequence with a different tone and goal in mind.

Certainly something they could do, but I don’t think they will.

 

[Shadowstorm]

It's absolutely valid to feel some level of cynicism going forward, especially if you find yourself unhappy with developments so far, but I'm not sure how productive that is when it comes to theorizing. Just speaking for myself personally if I didn't trust SE to deliver on what they set up, and to hold true to their original creation, then I simply wouldn't bother trying to guess where they go next.

Anyway, I would argue the LS scene inhabits a totally different place in the remake narrative by virtue of it not being one of the most infamous and spoiled moments in video game history. There was no way to properly recreate that feeling so they opted for a different approach to which the reactions obviously vary. The LS scene isn't nearly as well-known (and as a new player was one of the only surprising things I got to experience in the OG) and doesn't rely on a shock factor and is therefore a lot less likely to be changed significantly. What changes they would want to make are probably more along the lines of building up Cloud and Tifa's relationship more ahead of time, and they've gone above and beyond to do just that.

 

[GamerSkull]

It's a small world after all. @Ryushikaze.

I was browsing Reddit and came up on a reply chain you were part of that claimed Aerith had moved on from Zack. I can't really fathom how anyone can have this interpretation since she claims to still love him in Gongaga (in the original Japanese, but the way she's says "maybe" in English basically implies she does). Even if she has feelings for Cloud, her feelings for Zack wouldn't just disappear like that. Not to mention, the way the date is framed in Chapter 14 does feel like Square Enix is sublimally telling us that Zack is still a constant presence in Aerith's mind.

I just don't get it, to be honest. Which side is coping here? Because both sides are claiming to have evidence lol.

 

[Ryeleigh]

It's a small world after all. @Ryushikaze.

I was browsing Reddit and came up on a reply chain you were part of that claimed Aerith had moved on from Zack. I can't really fathom how anyone can have this interpretation since she claims to still love him in Gongaga (in the original Japanese, but the way she's says "maybe" in English basically implies she does). Even if she has feelings for Cloud, her feelings for Zack wouldn't just disappear like that. Not to mention, the way the date is framed in Chapter 14 does feel like Square Enix is sublimally telling us that Zack is still a constant presence in Aerith's mind.

I just don't get it, to be honest. Which side is coping here? Because both sides are claiming to have evidence lol.

To be honest, I've always lowkey disliked the discourse about Aerith moving on or being "allowed to move on". I mean, Zack disappeared without a trace. He promised to come see her, in his last words to her, and then he doesn't, and doesn't, and doesn't. And then, right before the start of FF7, it's implied she finally senses him only to sense that he's dying. And it's like, how exactly does one "move on" from that? She never got closure? And even if she does move on during her short time with Cloud and the party, it's very obvious that she hasn't yet at the beginning of FF7 (even in the original, considering in all of her dates she talked about her ex, lol) and it doesn't mean that she just stops loving Zack.

But the argument seems to be "Oh, she's a teenager. She'll get over it," meaning that it wasn't that serious, meaning that her so-called fans don't want or allow her to care. Instead of thinking "oh, she loved/loves him wholeheartedly but she should move on as much for her sake as Zack's even if it is a struggle sometimes". I feel that it's all about diminishing ZA instead of actual discussion about Aerith, Zack and the text.

Like, it feels so weird. It feels as if the fans don't want these characters to actually care about each other and at the same time they want them all to have romantic/sexual feelings for each other? And I'm just? Confused, lol?

 

[GamerSkull]

But the argument seems to be "Oh, she's a teenager. She'll get over it," meaning that it wasn't that serious, meaning that her so-called fans don't want or allow her to care. Instead of thinking "oh, she loved/loves him wholeheartedly but she should move on as much for her sake as Zack's even if it is a struggle sometimes". I feel that it's all about diminishing ZA instead of actual discussion about Aerith, Zack and the text.

Yeah, it is always meant to diminish I feel. Her relationship with Zack lasted two years, whereas with Cloud was only two weeks. Moreover, a teenager losing a loved one is not something that is casually gotten over. It's not like she lost a pair of fucking shoes. That's kind of the problem though, they seem to always try to diminish Cloti and Zerith...

Even if Aerith survived and began a relationship with Cloud, she probably would always love Zack. He's never given her a reason not to. Do people think that that widows and widowers that remarry just forget the feelings they used to have toward a loved one?

Like, it feels so weird. It feels as if the fans don't want these characters to actually care about each other and at the same time they want them all to have romantic/sexual feelings for each other? And I'm just? Confused, lol?

It's even funnier when you remember some of them are shipping Zack and Elmyra.

 

[Ryeleigh]

Even if Aerith survived and began a relationship with Cloud, she probably would always love Zack. He's never given her a reason not to. Do people think that that widows and widowers that remarry just forget the feelings they used to have toward a loved one?

I don't know what they think aside from wanting to diminish everything to do with Zack, that pesky wrench in the works.

It's even funnier when you remember some of them are shipping Zack and Elmyra.

Omg, lmao.

Well, I've always been of the opinion that people can ship whatever they want since "to each their own". As long as they don't try to pretend it's even remotely canon.

 

[GamerSkull]

I don't know what they think aside from wanting to diminish everything to do with Zack, that pesky wrench in the works.


Omg, lmao.

Well, I've always been of the opinion that people can ship whatever they want since "to each their own". As long as they don't try to pretend it's even remotely canon.

I agree. But you gotta wonder the real reason someone would have for shipping the two of them.

 

[Ryushikaze]

It's a small world after all. @Ryushikaze.

I was browsing Reddit and came up on a reply chain you were part of that claimed Aerith had moved on from Zack. I can't really fathom how anyone can have this interpretation since she claims to still love him in Gongaga (in the original Japanese, but the way she's says "maybe" in English basically implies she does). Even if she has feelings for Cloud, her feelings for Zack wouldn't just disappear like that. Not to mention, the way the date is framed in Chapter 14 does feel like Square Enix is sublimally telling us that Zack is still a constant presence in Aerith's mind.

They absolutely are telling us that, but we're dealing with people with very low media literacy, either by actual lack of comprehension or willful denial.

I just don't get it, to be honest. Which side is coping here? Because both sides are claiming to have evidence lol.

The evidence for Aerith not moving on- her own words in both Gongaga and the date AND her trying to recreate her first date with Zack in the dream world.

The evidence for Aerith having moved on... Marlene said Aerith likes Cloud. Even though Aerith admits she keeps seeing Zack in him. That and the hope that CA is endgame, I guess.

To be honest, I've always lowkey disliked the discourse about Aerith moving on or being "allowed to move on". I mean, Zack disappeared without a trace. He promised to come see her, in his last words to her, and then he doesn't, and doesn't, and doesn't. And then, right before the start of FF7, it's implied she finally senses him only to sense that he's dying. And it's like, how exactly does one "move on" from that? She never got closure? And even if she does move on during her short time with Cloud and the party, it's very obvious that she hasn't yet at the beginning of FF7 (even in the original, considering in all of her dates she talked about her ex, lol) and it doesn't mean that she just stops loving Zack.

But the argument seems to be "Oh, she's a teenager. She'll get over it," meaning that it wasn't that serious, meaning that her so-called fans don't want or allow her to care. Instead of thinking "oh, she loved/loves him wholeheartedly but she should move on as much for her sake as Zack's even if it is a struggle sometimes". I feel that it's all about diminishing ZA instead of actual discussion about Aerith, Zack and the text.

Like, it feels so weird. It feels as if the fans don't want these characters to actually care about each other and at the same time they want them all to have romantic/sexual feelings for each other? And I'm just? Confused, lol?

Aerith is absolutely allowed to try and process her grief and sadness at feeling abandoned and then learning the truth. The trick is she's still in the middle of that and it's not that her moving on means no longer loving Zack. And part of Aerith's story involves getting stuck in a pitfall of immediately falling for a man that reminds her of Zack (because he moves and gestures like Zack and literally formed his Persona in part with memories of Zack)

I agree. But you gotta wonder the real reason someone would have for shipping the two of them.

It's a way of getting rid of the opposition to the ship but in a way you can plausibly deny with good optics. CA often declare that anyone shipping ZA is just doing this to keep Aerith out of the way of the CT pair... somehow.

 

[GamerSkull]

They absolutely are telling us that, but we're dealing with people with very low media literacy, either by actual lack of comprehension or willful denial.


The evidence for Aerith not moving on- her own words in both Gongaga and the date AND her trying to recreate her first date with Zack in the dream world.

The evidence for Aerith having moved on... Marlene said Aerith likes Cloud. Even though Aerith admits she keeps seeing Zack in him. That and the hope that CA is endgame, I guess.

Yeah, there's simply no way that the game is trying to tell you she's moved on. Otherwise, they would have avoided the stuff in Gongaga for sure. Particularly, the answer she gives to Cloud. Marlene's comment is true, in that Aerith likes Cloud but people seem to infer (wrongly) that this means she likes Cloud MORE than Zack. To be honest, it just seems like a setup for angst before the reunion, in a way that all doubts will be cleared up when Zack and Aerith inevitably reunite.

It's a way of getting rid of the opposition to the ship but in a way you can plausibly deny with good optics. CA often declare that anyone shipping ZA is just doing this to keep Aerith out of the way of the CT pair... somehow.

Yeah, that's always an odd argument. Sure, I think it helps that it doesn't get in the way of Cloti but only because both ships can mutually coexist.

But there are people that genuinely like Zerith. Just as there are people that prefer Zack over Cloud as a favorite character.

I suppose the same can be said for Zack and Elmyra as well but that one just seems odd to me, as it seems like only a very specific portion of the fanbase likes it and well, it's just odd because he's half her age and in love with her daughter.

 

[Shadowstorm]

Zerith is the main couple of a whole game and arguably the B couple of the remake trilogy. Sure there's always gonna be some Cloti shippers that only support it because it removes Aerith as competition, but it's weird to assume that's the onl or even main reason why it's loved. It's not really comparable to Zifa or pairing Tifa with Emilio/Barret/Johnny/whoever else they come up with.

And really what do they think scenes like Aerith feeling Zack hold her hand through the LS mean? That's not the kind of thing you include for a ship the audience isn't supposed to root for.