SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Eerie]

I mean, their relationship cannot be functional, since Cloud's literally... not himself and semi-controlled by an alien. That's also the point of the LS, to propel their relationship in a good place; like many romances, you have to overcome hurdles to feel happy when everything finally falls right for them. Otherwise it's just... there and people don't really feel the need to "ship".

 

[pxl_pushr]

I mean, their relationship cannot be functional, since Cloud's literally... not himself and semi-controlled by an alien. That's also the point of the LS, to propel their relationship in a good place; like many romances, you have to overcome hurdles to feel happy when everything finally falls right for them. Otherwise it's just... there and people don't really feel the need to "ship".

I said it on a thread discussing her use of the word, but at the end of the day these are characters in a story and characters in a story people claim is a good story. You know what good stories have? Conflict, tension, some sort of hurdle to overcome. That’s what gives it meaning, a chance to say something.

It calls attention to what I noticed on Rebirth. Cloud and Tifa’s relationship is dynamic through this section, starting low and climbing up to Gongaga where they finally have a more open talk on Cloud’s part that nearly ends in a romantic moment.

Every canon pairing in FF has conflict in their relationship to overcome, even Cecil and Rosa in FF4.

Britt handled the question beautifully, giving an answer that remained professional yet honest to her thoughts. It’s a difficult answer to twist, and most people seem unconvinced of attempts to do so.

 

[Sacky]

so many people lying in this thread it's baffling, then you check the Reddit history
https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/1el52mu the Tifa wasn't developed in OG because early development she was added last minute lies need to stop XD

 

[GamerSkull]

To be fair, even if she’s a last minute addition, it still wouldn’t mean anything in that the final product is still the final product.

If newcomers don’t do their own research and just believe whatever they hear, then… well, can’t really help them.

 

[Xombii]

To be fair, to come to correct conclusions all you have to do is see them. But, to then claim you have the correct conclusions you need to be able to question your conclusions, to self-doubt to a reasonable degree and make sure yours are in fact correct..

If you then start doubting yourself in order to check your conclusions, sometimes you do feel a little thrown off by those people loudly and confidently proclaiming their own. You presume that people so confident must have also questioned themselves and found their conclusions watertight and iron clad. But it is just an illusion of confidence. The Dunning-Kruger effect at work.

It's sometimes easy for the loudly confident to confuse those people who are more likely trying to find the truth by questioning both sides.

I've noticed that there are a type of person who likes to lie loudly for attention and engagement, they use all sorts of emotionally abusive behaviours in order to get a following and then to prop it up with videos and threads and all of it is monetised. People popping up on streams to constantly repeat their 'theories and facts.' I do sometimes wonder if anyone genuinely plays through this game and really believes that CA is the endgame without having been somehow convinced this way. I think it's weird and insidious but I don't want to insult anyone by suggesting that it's the case. There has to be some kind of thread to cling onto

 

[Ryushikaze]

so many people lying in this thread it's baffling, then you check the Reddit history
https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/1el52mu the Tifa wasn't developed in OG because early development she was added last minute lies need to stop XD

We have a visual that proves Tifa existed before Aerith, but that Tifa was related to Sephiroth who looked like Vincent. Then their designs got changed and the character got a ribbon and a single earring, then the character was split and one got the ribbon and the other got the earring. Pretending that Tifa was a last minute addition is just to try and tear her down because Aerith died.

 

[Shadowstorm]

so many people lying in this thread it's baffling, then you check the Reddit history
https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/1el52mu the Tifa wasn't developed in OG because early development she was added last minute lies need to stop XD

Obsessed with the implication that the first 15% of development is somehow so important that any character and relationship added after that is irrelevant to the story.

Also I'm genuinely surprised at how many people are arguing real!Cloud isn't a different person. Isn't that like a really basic part of the game?

 

[Eerie]

All I’m gonna say is that some people are going to be very surprised by real!Cloud lmao.

 

[pxl_pushr]

All I’m gonna say is that some people are going to be very surprised by real!Cloud lmao.

Fingers crossed they stick the landing. I can already smell the terrible takes on him, but hopefully a majority see through it.

As for SOLDIERCloud being a different person… I’m curious how far they’ll take that idea in part 3. Will it be a simple personality and memory correction, or will they push it to the point where he was almost literally a separate person entirely ( ie Cloud can recall the past few weeks, but he has fuzzy/vague memories on how he felt about them )

 

[Shadowstorm]

Fingers crossed they stick the landing. I can already smell the terrible takes on him, but hopefully a majority see through it.

As for SOLDIERCloud being a different person… I’m curious how far they’ll take that idea in part 3. Will it be a simple personality and memory correction, or will they push it to the point where he was almost literally a separate person entirely ( ie Cloud can recall the past few weeks, but he has fuzzy/vague memories on how he felt about them )

I feel like it'll be the former. In the OG I didn't get the impression he felt too disconnected from the time he spent with Avalanche, and now that it's a trilogy it's hard to picture him having that view of two entire games, especially with the focus on bonding time and how much more his real self already seems to come to the surface. I do hope the personality and memory change will be pretty big though. In the OG it was hard to truly convey it with the limited time left in the story and the technical limitations so I'm really curious and excited to see how they go about it.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Obsessed with the implication that the first 15% of development is somehow so important that any character and relationship added after that is irrelevant to the story.

The first 15% of FF7's development hadn't even gotten us to Midgar. The first 15% of FF7's development became Parasite Eve and Xenogears.

Also I'm genuinely surprised at how many people are arguing real!Cloud isn't a different person. Isn't that like a really basic part of the game?

It is, but sadly I think you are overestimating the media literacy of a lot of people.

I feel like it'll be the former. In the OG I didn't get the impression he felt too disconnected from the time he spent with Avalanche, and now that it's a trilogy it's hard to picture him having that view of two entire games, especially with the focus on bonding time and how much more his real self already seems to come to the surface. I do hope the personality and memory change will be pretty big though. In the OG it was hard to truly convey it with the limited time left in the story and the technical limitations so I'm really curious and excited to see how they go about it.

His memory will likely be intact, but I hope he's clearly a notably different goofball after the lifestream sequence compared to even how he was at the end of Remake/ Start of Rebirth.

 

[Shadowstorm]

His memory will likely be intact, but I hope he's clearly a notably different goofball after the lifestream sequence compared to even how he was at the end of Remake/ Start of Rebirth.

Oh yeah Im gonna need lots of stuff witht the same energy as him freaking out about steering a submarine, giving Yuffie pointers about dealing with motion sickness and deciding how cool he should try to sound when talking to Tifa. I need the concept of emo boy Cloud erased from the public consciousness. Bring in Mr. Let's Mosey

 

[GamerSkull]

I saw something on Twitter that implies Tifa only likes Soldier!Cloud. I just don’t understand how anyone can come to that conclusion based on everything presented….

 

[redoak77]

I saw something on Twitter that implies Tifa only likes Soldier!Cloud. I just don’t understand how anyone can come to that conclusion based on everything presented….

Bad takes abound on the world wide web. Speaking of, I wonder what new and illustrious LTD takes were gonna get once part 3 drops

 

[null]

I mean, we've seen Real Cloud several times already in ReTrilogy, right? More or less the same persona as the beginning of Case of Tifa. Supportive and mature, yet shy and awkward. An older version of the kid from the water tower. The guy in Rebirth who's there when Tifa wakes up is textbook Real Cloud. That whole conversation feels authentic without a trace of Jenova interference. Same as in the one in Remake sitting on his bed saying "if you want to talk, I'm listening". Tifa immediately notices he's dropped the hard act, and she can't stop smiling. Not to mention Tifa's Chapter 14 resolution which I believe was called out in the Ultimania as being the real deal.

I don't think he's 100% separate from Soldier Cloud, but he's not completely different from Emo ACC Cloud either.

Bad takes abound on the world wide web. Speaking of, I wonder what new and illustrious LTD takes were gonna get once part 3 drops

I expect more of the same flat earther bullshit, to be honest. People are still going to overthink instruction manual blurbs and commercials and underthink kiss scenes in gondolas and other cinematic intimacy right in front of them.

 

[GamerSkull]

Bad takes abound on the world wide web. Speaking of, I wonder what new and illustrious LTD takes were gonna get once part 3 drops

They’ll treat the OG as canon instead… even though Cloti is still canon there technically.

Or they’ll say it’s just until Cloud dies… and if Zerith does indeed happen then it’s just a rebound for Aerith and she’s just using him until Cloud arrives.

Basically, they will create in their heads the absolute worst versions of Cloud and Aerith so they can pretend they still got what they wanted. Two people that literally just used others so they didn’t have to wait alone.

Or they’ll say the devs caved to fan pressure…

———————————
On the topic of Tifa only liking Soldier!Cloud. Well, she literally treats him suspiciously and point blank states that he scares her.

 

[Shadowstorm]

One of the most vital aspects of her character and her role in the story is that she's the key to finding Real!Cloud. Through the Lifestream in the OG, but also in the little moments she's brought him out in the remakes as Null said. To say she's only into Soldier!Cloud is just a willful misunderstanding of the game. If anything Aerith is the one that's attracted to his soldier persona. Part of the tragedy of her relationship with Cloud is that she never got to meet the real him, much less fall in love with him.

 

[null]

On the topic of Tifa only liking Soldier!Cloud. Well, she literally treats him suspiciously and point blank states that he scares her.

Tifa only liking Fake Cloud is a super old talking point. Nojima took that idea to the back of the woodshed with Trace of Two Pasts.

She does have a habit of putting him on a pedestal though, which drives some of the conflict in their relationship (which to be honest is good writing in my opinion.)

 

[Reaper3Delta]

Ahh, "The Hate Tifa Lockhart because the other 'ship' got nothing new to talk about" recycle cycle never ends!

 

[GamerSkull]

Tifa only liking Fake Cloud is a super old talking point. Nojima took that idea to the back of the woodshed with Trace of Two Pasts.

She does have a habit of putting him on a pedestal though, which drives some of the conflict in their relationship (which to be honest is good writing in my opinion.)

It doesn’t quite track though. Because she expressly states her is scaring her in Sector 7 and when he asks her to elaborate she specifically mentions a SOLDIER characteristic. The same characteristic, mind you, that Aerith describes as beautiful.

It’s pretty clear that the SOLDIER aspect forms the initial basis for Aerith’s attraction to him… whereas Tifa seems more interested in finding the kid she grew up with even as early as Sector 7 since she questions him about the things he did when he left the village. Multiple times actually, she tries to probe him…

 

[MissMDusk]

Like I said, for a ship that's truly "winning" they sure can't shut up about Tifa nor Cloud and Tifa's relationship.

I guess I'm comforted in knowing that the more they recycle their arguments, the more likely Nojima and the devs will see/be told about them. The devs recently said that they watch what the fans say, right? So they'll see how much people hate on Tifa and hopefully understand that this shouldn't be the audience they should cater to.

I mean lol, even Nomura is done with the weird interpretations. I heard that he basically said "If we see someone get some sort of (wrong) interpretation, we just laugh and say 'well that's how it is!'" or something like that?

 

[Eerie]

Yeah I mean, Hamaguchi follows a CA streamer at least plus recently some really big CT accounts, so they're definitely following what's happening on the shipping side of the fandom.

 

[Sacky]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/1elya37 Seeing this on reddit always confuses me, So what is True Did Cloud have some of Zacks memories? I found this
quote that implies he did
FFVII Rebirth Director Hamaguchi says that when it comes to Cloud in the Nibelheim Flashback, it’s not just Cloud alone; it’s a blend of Cloud’s memories and Zack’s memories. (kakuchopurei, 10/26/2023)

The rain that falls at the end of Crisis Core: FF7 when Zack is dying stops by the time Cloud says "Thank you." This sequence not only indicates the passage of time but also implies how Zack's memories have imprinted onto Cloud. (Continuity Director Toshiyuki Momose; CCU, 2007

But I was always confused on the memory thing and also if Jenova Cells in Cloud are Jenovas will,
or just the ability of the cells? I feel he has to have some memories of Zack since he can recall word for word the exact conversation Zack had with Sephiroth while he was outside with Tifa everything even turning the valve except for the Genesis talk?

 

[Eerie]

It's Jenova who imprints Zack's memories onto Cloud IIRC, so her using Zack's memories at her advantage are her will to transform Cloud into a puppet.

 

[pxl_pushr]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/1elya37 Seeing this on reddit always confuses me, So what is True Did Cloud have some of Zacks memories? I found this
quote that implies he did
FFVII Rebirth Director Hamaguchi says that when it comes to Cloud in the Nibelheim Flashback, it’s not just Cloud alone; it’s a blend of Cloud’s memories and Zack’s memories. (kakuchopurei, 10/26/2023)

The rain that falls at the end of Crisis Core: FF7 when Zack is dying stops by the time Cloud says "Thank you." This sequence not only indicates the passage of time but also implies how Zack's memories have imprinted onto Cloud. (Continuity Director Toshiyuki Momose; CCU, 2007

But I was always confused on the memory thing and also if Jenova Cells in Cloud are Jenovas will,
or just the ability of the cells? I feel he has to have some memories of Zack since he can recall word for word the exact conversation Zack had with Sephiroth while he was outside with Tifa everything even turning the valve except for the Genesis talk?

Well, it’s not just Zack in his head, we know that, and if Jenova is ultimately marching to Sephiroth’s tune, perhaps Sephiroth had Jenova filter the memories of the Genesis conversation?

The Kalm flashback is an interesting oddity with this new approach, because you can see Cloud’s mind actively fight off memories/delusions of his mom ( anytime she speaks and you can’t see her face ) but stuff from CC is also missing that Zack would know.

Could it all be the version of the story SOLDIERCloud thinks is most digestible to Tifa? Dunno. The LS scene is going to be interesting when it’s time to tackle Nibelheim.