SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
Reaper3Delta
Pro Adventurer
True. The irony that the creator of the main source of gaslight , misinformation , mischaracterisation , shitty takes and even more idiotic theories that poisons the FF7 fandom was created by someone that admits never played the games and only watches them on youtube/streamers.
This is why I am all for a little bit of gatekeeping; I am not saying anything like you had to play the black-label version of the game on the original Playstation with a Sony Trinitron back in 1997 otherwise, you’re not a fan, but people like these should be kept out of the discussions about any factor of the game not just the love triangle.
A minor concern I have is that splitting FF7’s story into 3, chunky games may actually harm longterm interest. A single, well-paced game is much easier to recommend than purchasing 3 full games for 1 story. The temptation to “speedrun” consumption may make partial consumers more prevalent.
As a fan, I enjoy this much game in a world I already like. Wonder if it’ll be accessible to people only partially familiar though.
Not really. tbh, people consume the Dark Souls trilogy and other video game trilogies back to back those who are interested and hooked will play all the way through.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
Besides that, I think it was Kitase who said that a lot of people who played FFVII OG never actually finished it (I guessed they stopped at Aerith's death) so they missed disc 2 which is arguably the best of what FFVII has to offer, story-wise. And it'll be encompassed all in one game for p3 so they do hope that a lot of people are going to play it to get the full experience (but it makes me quite nervous because damn, they have to stick the landing, and I'm not talking about only ships or LT here).
I am 99 percent sure it is going to be the same ending cause all interviews leading up to AC give it away; I fully trust them tbh I was really worried after part 1 cause every YouTuber was like everything is going to change in part 2 and a certain YouTuber spread fake rumors about what was going to happen but Rebirth blew all my worries away I fully trust them now.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
It's not the where (I suspect they will incorporate some of the OtWtaS whenever possible), it's the how that worries me. When I look at Aerith's death scene, this is what I fear because this scene is not about Aerith, her death and her loss but rather what effect loss has on Cloud. I felt sad for exactly 0.2 seconds in that scene, when the materia hit the ground...
Considering that was their intention with the scene, I think they successfully got the reaction they wanted out of you as a player, but Aerith in the game says It is about Cloud.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I don't think disappointment was their goal tbh.
I doubt the execution will be the same, or rather they’ll add context to what the ending actually is and I see it possibly meaning something different from what people expect.
For example, final dual will still be Cloud v Sephiroth, but it’s going to be a full on spectacle and may not be as simple as “Cloud is purging Sephiroth from his mind” and will be a marathon of a fight. Wouldn’t be shocked if o get flashbacks to Metal Gear Solid 4…
For example, final dual will still be Cloud v Sephiroth, but it’s going to be a full on spectacle and may not be as simple as “Cloud is purging Sephiroth from his mind” and will be a marathon of a fight. Wouldn’t be shocked if o get flashbacks to Metal Gear Solid 4…
I've been very wary of the meta-textual elements in the Remake series(Whispers, alternate worlds, time-traveling Sephiroth). I don't think it adds anything to the story, in fact I'm beginning to think these elements detract from the story.
For the simple reason that the OG story was complicated enough. What infuriates me is watching people who haven't played OG stream Rebirth and conclude that the reason for Cloud and Tifa's memories being different regarding Nibelheim is due to timeline shenanigans.
I don't mind the new events, characters, characterizations. Those are all fantastic. But none of this needs to be explained by invoking FATE. This is why I share your worries about the ending of the Remake trilogy. It has the potential to be incredibly moving. Let's hope SE shows some restraint.
For the simple reason that the OG story was complicated enough. What infuriates me is watching people who haven't played OG stream Rebirth and conclude that the reason for Cloud and Tifa's memories being different regarding Nibelheim is due to timeline shenanigans.
I don't mind the new events, characters, characterizations. Those are all fantastic. But none of this needs to be explained by invoking FATE. This is why I share your worries about the ending of the Remake trilogy. It has the potential to be incredibly moving. Let's hope SE shows some restraint.
Empyrea
Pro Adventurer
As someone who barely felt much for the OG scene, I felt even less for this one. I got that they shifted the focus, but I felt it was overdone at that point. Like, I get it, Cloud's head is messed up all the way to Sunday. But why hammer that in here, too? In what was supposed to be Aerith's swan song game? Not to mention, the same game that's as subtle as a hollowblock to the face about Cloud's issues.
That scene needed to breathe. Regardless of how I reacted to the OG scene, I appreciated that it gave a quiet moment for the party to grieve and let it sink to both them and the player that Aerith really is gone.
Seconded. I'm still worried about how they'll do part 3 cause of this.
Eerie
Fire and Blood
I agree generally but fate was a big theme too in the OG, especially once Meteor is summoned, it’s evoked more than once by random NPCs noticeably. I think there are other points where it’s mentioned too but it was a big talking point so it’s not surprising that it was expanded too.
Hellenic
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Hellenic
The first time around it didn't really help me that i got kinda annoyed at the Sephi boss rush when i accidentally reset the whole thing after wiping at the final fight and having to do all of it again. Then all the 10 different Aerith fades to the air and wakes up again moments just got overdone and didn't do much for me.
On later playthroughs and having soaked up the scene properly, i do feel a bit emotional over it, though less so compared to some other scenes in the game + Tifas reaction to her death is honestly the saddest part for me overall here still.
I do kinda like the delusional Cloud angle they are going for this time though even if it did end up sacrificing a lot of the impact for the moment itself here.
AncientGrim
Lv. 1 Adventurer
- AKA
- ReGrim
Nor frustration.
Not frustration in the sense that the ending is both confusing, intentionally obfuscating, and exhaustingly zeroed in on Cloud at the expense of the other character’s emotions and experiences of the event, but frustrating that the developers in their handling of the ending, make no choice at all, which is I think a really cowardly creative move.
I get their intent, and the desire to create conversation and theory crafting as a means to hopefully sustain interest in the wait for Part 3, which tracks with their handling of Remake’s ending too.
But Remake had the greater creative freedom there to do it. We all knew its endpoint, leaving Midgar, was a high note in the original, the leaving behind of the city and setting out in the open world. That’s left relatively intact, they keep the excitement of the adventure and unknown journey ahead whilst also allowing for new mysteries for the audience to mull over in the wait for Rebirth.
The ending of Rebirth shouldn’t have had this in my opinion, not when they decided to end it at the Forgotten City, and with Aerith’s death.
They shouldn’t have traded one of the original’s most impactful and emotionally resonant scenes, with a puzzle box of innumerable dangling plot threads that weren’t present in the original, mysteries that at once seem to contradict and further muddle characterisations and motivations, that ultimately, like I said before, fail to actually commit to anything at all, for the purpose of vague clues and hints that may mean one thing or another, it doesn’t matter, it all comes at the expense of the story, the characters, the audiences emotional response to the ending of a very lengthy middle entry in a trilogy of games, where the context of how its ending is received now will be changed by how Part 3 delivers on its many questions and promises, and whether it sticks its own landing.
Aerith deserved better. All the others deserved better. Because in the ending they are acting in service to Cloud’s character and his character only, and in service to the pressures of needing to sustain the audience interest by giving theorycrafters plenty to chew over but leaving nothing to emotionally reflect on for the characters we spent potentially over a 100 hours following.
They could easily have kept the current mysteries ongoing, already enough for theories and speculation, and committed to a choice in Rebirth’s ending. Aerith didn’t need to be sacrificed (pun unintended) in what should of been her big moment, her character utilised solely for intrigue ignoring what I believe the vast majority of the audience actually cared about in this moment.
Having a satisfying conclusion to this stage of the journey, and a farewell to Aerith in this entry that actually respects her character and her importance to the party besides Cloud.
I agree completely. It feels like the ending catered to theory-crafters at the expense of everyone else. Which is weird because I actually like deciphering obscure lore and hidden meanings. And upon repeated viewings, I have come to some conclusions about what is really going on in that ending, and why some parts of the credits are blocked out.
I still however, think these aspects are largely unnecessary.
They could have instead focused solely on Aerith's inner conflict: Does she leave the party to attempt to summon holy on her own? Or does she stay with the party, where Cloud, unwilling to face his own problems, is a liability to everyone? This is a hard to choice to make, and I think it would have improved the story greatly to, instead of having a dream date, have an extended conversation between Aerith and Cloud in the sleeping forest about why exactly she's leaving, her frustration at Cloud specifically (I just think someone should have yelled at Cloud at some point). Explain all the choices leading up to her leaving the party behind to face Sephiroth alone. It doesn't have to be just about Cloud.
I still however, think these aspects are largely unnecessary.
They could have instead focused solely on Aerith's inner conflict: Does she leave the party to attempt to summon holy on her own? Or does she stay with the party, where Cloud, unwilling to face his own problems, is a liability to everyone? This is a hard to choice to make, and I think it would have improved the story greatly to, instead of having a dream date, have an extended conversation between Aerith and Cloud in the sleeping forest about why exactly she's leaving, her frustration at Cloud specifically (I just think someone should have yelled at Cloud at some point). Explain all the choices leading up to her leaving the party behind to face Sephiroth alone. It doesn't have to be just about Cloud.
Nancy
Pro Adventurer
I feel like the devs didn't do that because they know OG players know Aerith left on her own to summon holy but the new players, they either get it or they don't which the game will explain in part 3 by the time they head back to the FC
I thought the dream date was unnecessary at first but then when you think of that Aerith not being the one we travel with & is in fact og Aerith then I guess you can say the devs put the dream date in there for a reason consider og Aerith never got the chance to say goodbye to Cloud, just like when she mention her & Cloud never getting a pic together during the walk around sector 5 unlike rebirth Aerith getting to take a pic with Cloud
Considering rebirth was supposed to be Aerith's game, I thought maybe the devs would have a section where we play as Aerith, for the last time, as she heads to the FC on her own because that is what I always thought of after playing the og on how she even got there & how she knew where the place is, but sadly the devs instead have Aerith follow the team for a short while & left disappear on her own
Maybe a hot take, but I don't think Cloud and Aerith needed closure. Aerith's death is meant to be incredibly sudden and tragic. Foreshadowing it with all these ominous dream-like moments just drags it out and lessens the impact.
In the OG, Aerith dying without closure and in a way that seemed preventable made fans gather signatures to petition SquareSoft to revive her. That her death is unfair is the point.
In Rebirth, the atmosphere around Aerith's death has completely changed. It wasn't the death itself (Though it was treated like a tacky laser-light show), it was the moment when Nanaki said in the sleeping forest, "Do you think it was our destiny to be separated from Aerith?"(Paraphrasing).
So Aerith is not making a brash decision when she feels she has no one to depend on, which leads to her untimely tragic death like in the OG, that causes Cloud to finally be introspective about why Sephiroth has such a hold on him.
She is instead, fulfilling her obligation to the planet to die ceremoniously and become a Goddess in the Life stream, as dictated by her Cetra heritage. It takes away all agency from Aerith's decision to leave the party.
This is what imagining FATE as an entity does to a story. It means that all the characters are on rails and whatever motivations they appear to have is just window dressing. Aerith was going to die anyway, so let's just focus on her being sad about it and telling everyone to 'embrace the moment' for the dozenth time... even though we secretly know nothing can change her fate. I don't find this satisfying at all.
I don't want this to seem like I'm completely negative about Rebirth. I loved the game. I liked the ending more than Remake's at least.
In the OG, Aerith dying without closure and in a way that seemed preventable made fans gather signatures to petition SquareSoft to revive her. That her death is unfair is the point.
In Rebirth, the atmosphere around Aerith's death has completely changed. It wasn't the death itself (Though it was treated like a tacky laser-light show), it was the moment when Nanaki said in the sleeping forest, "Do you think it was our destiny to be separated from Aerith?"(Paraphrasing).
So Aerith is not making a brash decision when she feels she has no one to depend on, which leads to her untimely tragic death like in the OG, that causes Cloud to finally be introspective about why Sephiroth has such a hold on him.
She is instead, fulfilling her obligation to the planet to die ceremoniously and become a Goddess in the Life stream, as dictated by her Cetra heritage. It takes away all agency from Aerith's decision to leave the party.
This is what imagining FATE as an entity does to a story. It means that all the characters are on rails and whatever motivations they appear to have is just window dressing. Aerith was going to die anyway, so let's just focus on her being sad about it and telling everyone to 'embrace the moment' for the dozenth time... even though we secretly know nothing can change her fate. I don't find this satisfying at all.
I don't want this to seem like I'm completely negative about Rebirth. I loved the game. I liked the ending more than Remake's at least.