SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Graymouse]

I think you misunderstood me here My point was exactly yours here. Aerith dying doesn't magically solve anything because it implies that whatever Cloud and Tifa felt for each other wasn't the reason why they got together but the fact that she was the only one alive in the end. That's very detrimental to Tifa's character imo.

This is where I am a bit confused by your response. Could you please elaborate on how it would be detrimental to Tifa's character?

I am always torn between them giving an answer and them keeping it ambiguous. On the one hand, if this is truly going to be the final instalment in FFVII then I can see them ending it finally. Closing out all the story arcs.

If they want to keep the door open for future compilation material, I can see them NOT ending it because unfortunately the love triangle is a big part of what keeps discussion going online between instalments.

What I don't think will happen is having it solved before Aerith's death, which is basically not solving it at all because everyone who was on the "he still loves her from beyond the grave" or "if she lived he'd have been with her" teams are still going to be there. So no matter what happens with Cloud and Tifa afterwards it won't be "solved" in some people's eyes.

Conclusion: It's all hopeless but we're never going to stop arguing it.

That would really end this entire LTD right there. Personally I do hope that SE can work that out before hand. In honestly, if you look at the Remake, you could kinda get a sense of that already happening. Of course this is just my opinion.

Edited to add another response instead of double posting.

 

[Yumelinh]

This is where I am a bit confused by your response. Could you please elaborate on how it would be detrimental to Tifa's character?

Sure! o/

The claim some people make that the LTD is over since one half of it is dead disqualifies the fact that both Tifa and Cloud have feelings for each other and places the choice as a matter of "won by being alive". < This argument is detrimental to Tifa’s character, because it doesn’t put her in a position of a loved one, but simply as someone who Cloud settled for since he couldn't be with Aerith.

 

[MasterMoogle]

This is where I am a bit confused by your response. Could you please elaborate on how it would be detrimental to Tifa's character?


That would really end this entire LTD right there. Personally I do hope that SE can work that out before hand. In honestly, if you look at the Remake, you could kinda get a sense of that already happening. Of course this is just my opinion.

Edited to add another response instead of double posting.

The only way to end the triangle is for Zack to come back and sweep Aerith off her feet. There's a reason so many Cloti-shippers also ship Zerith, and it's not always because they genuinely care about Aerith. Sometimes, it's purely for pragmatic reasons. They know it's the only way for SE to make a conclusive statement about the ships.

 

[Yumelinh]

This stupid triangle could easily be solved if one of the ladies, most likely Aerith, came to their damn senses and realized Cloud just isn't worth their time. Zack, on the other hand, is.

This stupid triangle could easily be solved if one of the ladies, most likely Aerith, came to their damn senses and realized Cloud just isn't worth their time. TIFA on the other hand, is.

Here, fixed your quote!

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

The only way to end the triangle is for Zack to come back and sweep Aerith off her feet. There's a reason so many Cloti-shippers also ship Zerith, and it's not always because they genuinely care about Aerith. Sometimes, it's purely for pragmatic reasons. They know it's the only way for SE to make a conclusive statement about the ships.

Is it, though? Aerith's feelings don't inform Cloud's, and that's the crux of any and all disagreement.

 

[MasterMoogle]

This stupid triangle could easily be solved if one of the ladies, most likely Aerith, came to their damn senses and realized Cloud just isn't worth their time. TIFA on the other hand, is.

Here, fixed your quote!

So is Aerith, which is why I hate to see her be toyed with like this.

Is it, though? Aerith's feelings don't inform Cloud's, and that's the crux of any and all disagreement.

Sure, but Cloud doesn't really seem to be into Aerith, unless it's fueled by guilt over her death. He was always the more passive person in their interactions.

 

[odekopeko]

The LTD could also end (it won't) if Cloud just confesses to Tifa like the boy should have done before he left Nibelheim. We have Zack, Jessie, and Aerith questioning him about their relationship. He never gives a straight answer. He hasn't told her his feelings so they're not dating, but he doesn't freaking wanna be just her friend either, and that's why he won't just tell people they're friends or know each other from way back when.

 

[Cat on Mars]

The new love triangle. Who does Tifa love more?



She's the cusp of the love pyramid.

 

[odekopeko]

That makes more sense.

 

[Ruri]

Tifa is always the centre of the real LT

 

[Graymouse]

Sure! o/

The claim some people make that the LTD is over since one half of it is dead disqualifies the fact that both Tifa and Cloud have feelings for each other and places the choice as a matter of "won by being alive". < This argument is detrimental to Tifa’s character, because it doesn’t put her in a position of a loved one, but simply as someone who Cloud settled for since he couldn't be with Aerith.

Ah, ok I understand. I think that is a ridiculous argument ever, One half has died so it automatically disqualifies the other side. That is just a ridiculous line of thinking in my opinion. To me it sounds like, those are the people that can't accept that their choice of Ship died so if we can't be happy neither can you.

I think you don't have to worry about Tifa not being in a position of a love one. Throughout the game we learn just how much Cloud cherished Tifa. The entire premise of the game starts with Cloud cherishing TIfa. Tifa has always been and always will be the most precious person to Cloud.

 

[minami758]

I feel like some people overestimate the importance of the LTD in bringing SE money/fans to the game. While yes, there are a lot of "Best Girl" arguments, at the end of the day most people just want to see a good story and good gameplay. The shipper arguments are mostly niche and happen for longtime or hardcore fans.

For most casual fans, it's quite obvious that Cloud and Tifa are endgame. There's a reason the ship is wildly popular worldwide, and a reason why over the years the Compilation has continued to push toward a more Cloti/Zerith direction. They keep things just ambiguous enough for the conversations to continue, but not enough to keep people from connecting the obvious dots.

From what I've witnessed, some of the most vocal C/A fans who insist that C/T is not canon for whatever reason (on Twitter, which is a cesspool in general) have admitted to not buying/playing the Remake. So if you don't buy the game, it's not like you're helping SE out on the monetary front anyway. And if you don't play it and only watch a certain selection of scenes on Youtube, then obviously you're going to come up with a conclusion that fits your narrative.

And the idea that Japanese creators don't end love triangles is kind of bullshit - Naruto and Bleach had two insanely popular love triangles that people loved to argue about, and those ended definitively (no matter what your opinion was on how they were written/how they ended.) People got angry for a while, then everyone moved on with their lives.

 

[Graymouse]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264047459866640389

This is too funny! I love it!

 

[Master Bates]

Is it, though? Aerith's feelings don't inform Cloud's, and that's the crux of any and all disagreement.

I don't disagree. But here is why it confuses me. If Cloud's feelings is the crux of the LTD, then this should've already ended conclusively. We have had numerous confirmation both in-game and in meta-text that Cloud had always loved and continues to love Tifa. Add to that, he also ends up living with her and raising children with her like a family. Aerith does not have that.

While you can view Aerith's relationship with Cloud under a romantic lens, the fact is that Cloud's feelings for her are more left ambiguous and never had the same quality of confirmation it did for Tifa. Furthermore, they never had the opportunity to 'get together' unlike Cloud and Tifa did.

Looking at Cloud's feelings, this LTD should've already ended. People can argue all they want whether Cloud's feelings for Aerith are romantic or not, but that will never erase the fact that Cloud loves Tifa. The issue of Cloud's feelings had been answered conclusively in relation to her.

It seems to me that the contention now isn't really who Cloud loves (because he is confirmed to love Tifa, there's no going around that), but rather on the nature of Cloud's feelings for Aerith (it's very complicated, imo). But this should already be a topic divorced from the LTD because whatever answer that topic will yield will not affect the CloTi endgame.

However, I also notice there are some people who argue to determine who does Cloud love MORE, as if one can assign numerical values to Cloud's affection (we can only put numerical values to Aerith's and Tifa's affections, not Cloud; and that's only because of game mechanics). And I think that these people are totally missing the point and are fighting a battle that's unwinnable by design.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I don't disagree. But here is why it confuses me. If Cloud's feelings is the crux of the LTD, then this should've already ended conclusively. ...

... Furthermore, they never had the opportunity to 'get together' unlike Cloud and Tifa did.

Second bit answers the first bit.

 

[Master Bates]

Second bit answers the first bit.

I think you're misunderstanding me.

Cloud's feelings for Aerith are arguably ambiguous, but his feelings for Tifa are conclusively romantic. Looking at it from this angle, then the LTD should've already have an answer.

 

[Yumelinh]

Second bit answers the first bit.

How so?

Edit: Didn't see @Master Bates reply above. That was pretty much the same thing I was confused about your answer.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

Sorry if I came across as too gungho or anything! my intention wasn't to ruin the Nojima with Cloud and Tifa, etc art or anything for people, I mainly agree with what Purple, Ruri, etc said.

Here's the Hamaguchi and Kitase in church-

If people want to or do take enjoyment from stuffs like the Nojima stuffs or this or similar I think it's ok, for people to have fun with things like these just the element of they do love all the characters, see what they give to people, all the different ways people enjoy things, etc

feels like a bit of a stretch to say they are doing a Cloud and Aerith pose tbh lol

 

[Eerie]

Because we've never had conclusive from Cloud to Aerith, this LTD can go on forever, because the goal posts keep moving. It's not about who Cloud ends up with, but who he would chose to end up with if he had the choice between both girls.

Edit: explaining Tres' post above.

 

[Master Bates]

How so?

Cloud's feelings is the crux of the LTD.

Cloud's feelings for Aerith are left ambiguous and they never had the opportunity to 'get together'.

Therefore, LTD remains unresolved because his feelings with regards to one girl is ambiguous.

EDIT: ninja'ed

because the goal posts keep moving. It's not about who Cloud ends up with, but who he would chose to end up with if he had the choice between both girls.

And this is what makes it so frustrating, these shifting of goal posts. But that contention that rests on hypotheticals is absurd to begin with. There is no way in hell we'll ever get that question resolved.

 

[Maidenofwar]

To add to the mukae ni iku discussion from earlier is it true the JP has at the end of the dream with Aerith that she says "It's frustrating, but I'm happy" ? I feel the English version conveyed more or less the same thing but I was just wondering.

The "Marlene's intuition" segment from the Ultimania confirmed that Cloud liked Aerith, it's known he was attracted to her, it's the extent to that "like" whether it was mere physical attraction or something or more that oils the discussion machine.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I think you're misunderstanding me.

Cloud's feelings for Aerith are arguably ambiguous, but his feelings for Tifa are conclusively romantic. Looking at it from this angle, then the LTD should've already have an answer.

How so?

Aerith's death (and the consequent unanswered questions it leaves since Cloud with all his memories and feelings restored never got to be around both her and Tifa) is the sole reason there can be an enduring question of the LTD to surround.

Her death is really the pairing's greatest "debate strength," and honestly? A big part of its lasting appeal to many.

EDIT: Or basically what @Eerie and
@Master Bates said in the posts before this one.

 

[Edley]

So CT fans gotta root for an Aerith lives or death and res. scenario that prolly ain't coming? Or does even that leave too much wiggle room?

 

[Graymouse]

Because we've never had conclusive from Cloud to Aerith, this LTD can go on forever, because the goal posts keep moving. It's not about who Cloud ends up with, but who he would chose to end up with if he had the choice between both girls.

Edit: explaining Tres' post above.

I think you would probably come to the same conclusion. Especially after Cloud regains his true memories. I would imagine that the feelings for Tifa will be very strong and he would end up with her. IMHO.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

So CT fans gotta root for an Aerith lives or death and res. scenario that prolly ain't coming? Or does even that leave too much wiggle room?

Maybe this is where all this is heading to