SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[MasterMoogle]

Honestly, I think OG FF7 love triangle is probably more influenced by 90s harem anime than anyone cares to acknowledge a lot of the time tbh. Idk how ~controversial~ that is, cuz I don't really have any sources to confirm as much, its just an impression. There are so many blatant anime/manga homages there's just no doubt in my mind that's what was what was going on imo.

I remember being on the internet and seeing the Ryoko vs Ayeka stuff from Tenchi Muyo. Way more vicious than FF7 imo, though perhaps not nearly as longstanding. Does anyone care about Tenchi Muyo anymore?

Personally, I'm still rooting for Tenchi and Sakuya.

I can definitely see the similarities to harem anime, and it's not something I miss about anime. Sadly, FF7 reminds me a lot of such animes, to its own detriment. I don't remember Tenchi Muyo having a resolution to its LT either.

 

[DutchDread]

Personally, I'm still rooting for Tenchi and Sakuya.

I can definitely see the similarities to harem anime, and it's not something I miss about anime. Sadly, FF7 reminds me a lot of such animes, to its own detriment. I don't remember Tenchi Muyo having a resolution to its LT either.

Oh I don't know, I am watching " my life as a villainess" right now and I still think Harem anime have their charm.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Turns out Ryu, by his admission, actually had kept a copy (or did he archive it?) of the fic itself. Now I felt like all my energy trying to locate that spoof just went to waste.

I appreciate you doing it the same. Also I made the spoof in the first place.

I feel like FF7 owes more to stuff like Battle Angel Alita (literally did the elevated city above a slum metaphor before FF7), Berserk (big sworded sad man and silver haired superior with a weird homoerotic rivalry), Ghost in the Shell (the entire aethetic of Midgar/Jenova is 100% Masamune Shirow) than Eva I think? Though funny enough, Eva and FF7 converge at Godzilla! Shin Godzilla best Godzilla.

I'm not weeb ( ) I just... consume... a lot of......... media.

Xenogears is super Eva though! Which reminds me, I haven't played Xenogears in years, I'd really like to revisit it.

Interesting trivia for anyone who might not know - FF7 has a direct Xenogears reference. When Cloud is spacing out in Mideel he mutters "zeno...gias." In the PC version this is properly localized to "Xeno... gears." Xenogears is also a game where the lead (Fei) has sex with his love interest (Elly) leading up to the final battle. Very neat!

On topic: I was looking for Shroudy's old fic. Dish the deets, I thrive off cringe content

Xenogears itself has a cameo from Lucca, from Crono Trigger.

The archive http://archive.li/5FlQR

Stuff like breathable liquid containing consciousness/memories, androgynous shapeshifting aliens arriving on meteors, biological mechas (though I've read WEAPON might really be Gundam influence),

WEAPON are absolutely based on Gundam enemy suits, design wise.

Hey I'm taking furious notes from you, that makes you a weeb sensei. Guess I'm a weeb... gakusei? Have not heard of Battle Angel Alita but now on the list!

Alita is good, but be prepared for a deep dive.

Personally, I'm still rooting for Tenchi and Sakuya.

I can definitely see the similarities to harem anime, and it's not something I miss about anime. Sadly, FF7 reminds me a lot of such animes, to its own detriment. I don't remember Tenchi Muyo having a resolution to its LT either.

The answer to the Tenchi triangle is yes. All of them.

 

[Cat on Mars]

Personally, I'm still rooting for Tenchi and Sakuya.

Ah, I've never watched Tenchi in Tokyo.

I can definitely see the similarities to harem anime, and it's not something I miss about anime. Sadly, FF7 reminds me a lot of such animes, to its own detriment. I don't remember Tenchi Muyo having a resolution to its LT either.

Thank Ken Akamatsu for that, he buried the genre with his shitty harem stories. I hated Love Hina at first sight and I'm glad that hack killed the goose that laid golden eggs.

FFVII was a product of his time. Nomura's designs scream "anime" and Midgar was an amalgamation of BAA's Tiphares/Scrapyard, Akira's Neo Tokyo and 80's cyberpunk movies aestethic.
The characters were anime archetypes with a bit of backstory added to them and some subvertions here and there for flavor. The plot was the sum of every popular plot back then.
Also, why does everybody forget about fucking Robocop? The CCP is Shinra before Shinra, cynical advertising and weapons manufacturer that creates a human/non-human thing included.
The only original thing about FFVII was the unique circumstances that surrounded its development, like devs struggling with death of a parent and Square's legenady fallout with Nintendo (beware of evil corporations, kids!).

But the LTD is largely product of the fandom rather than a byproduct of FFVII's story. Even if SE ended it in the next years, the LTD will continue to exist, since for unknown reasons, people take shipping seriously.
What a world.

 

[Ryushikaze]

.
The only original thing about FFVII was the unique circumstances that surrounded its development, like devs struggling with death of a parent and Square's legenady fallout with Nintendo (beware of evil corporations, kids!).

The death happened during the development of FF3 for the NES, almost a decade earlier.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

You should all come join me in the Rufus/Tseng/Aerith LTD. We have great fanart and we don't quarrel.

 

[Cat on Mars]

The death happened during the development of FF3 for the NES, almost a decade earlier.

I didn't know that. Still, I'd say it played a part in FFVII. Some themes need time to develop.

You should all come join me in the Rufus/Tseng/Aerith LTD. We have great fanart and we don't quarrel.

I've always wanted to make some Tseng/Aerith doujin, I've had an idea I wanted to try but you know, there are other things in life. Like AerTi. Or whatever I'm creating now, it's sick and twisted but it has... potential? Help I'm starting to ship this abomination unironically.

 

[Makoeyes987]

A lot of the most legendary franchises from the 90s that endure strongly to this day, are the result of just the right mix of circumstance, trope blending and enough creative flair to allow it to stand above the rest of competition.

Pokemon struck gold by simply turning the collectible gashapon craze, into an actual video game with creative monster designs. Magic the Gathering was a D&D inspired card game meant to allow players to capture that experience in a more accessible form. YGO was MtG except anime.

Just like real life, franchise success is one-part talent, and two-parts opportunity. FFVII slid in at just the perfect moment in time with the perfect mixture of designs to really just firmly root itself in gaming history.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Does anyone care about Tenchi Muyo anymore?

It has a new OVA running as we speak.

I don't remember Tenchi Muyo having a resolution to its LT either.

There somewhat maybe is. There's at least one continuity in which Tenchi and Sasami/Tsunami will get married.

 

[MasterMoogle]

It has a new OVA running as we speak.

There somewhat maybe is. There's at least one continuity in which Tenchi and Sasami/Tsunami will get married.

Completely forgot about that! Sucks for Ryoko and Ayeka.

 

[Eerie]

I think I am losing my edge - I guess that’s what happens when you don’t really care about the LTD anymore - but I’ve just noticed the parallels between the resolution scenes and the things they allude to.

For Aerith, we have SOLDIER!Cloud who expresses interest in her and tries to grab her before she disappears. That’s a very clear allusion to SOLDIER!Cloud who has feelings for Aerith but before they can solidify into something, Aerith is killed.

For Tifa we have True!Cloud who hugs her. While the scene in itself is not romantic, it does have romantic tones, and does allude to the Highwind scene where True!Cloud and Tifa confess their feelings and have sex.

And while the second was clear to me, Aerith’s parallel just hit me in the face. So I wanted to share.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I think I am losing my edge - I guess that’s what happens when you don’t really care about the LTD anymore - but I’ve just noticed the parallels between the resolution scenes and the things they allude to.

For Aerith, we have SOLDIER!Cloud who expresses interest in her and tries to grab her before she disappears. That’s a very clear allusion to SOLDIER!Cloud who has feelings for Aerith but before they can solidify into something, Aerith is killed.

For Tifa we have True!Cloud who hugs her. While the scene in itself is not romantic, it does have romantic tones, and does allude to the Highwind scene where True!Cloud and Tifa confess their feelings and have sex.

And while the second was clear to me, Aerith’s parallel just hit me in the face. So I wanted to share.

Unsure I follow the train of thought in your post. What aspect of those exchanges precludes Cloud from having feelings for Aerith?

 

[Eerie]

Uh none? I just thought it was a parallel to what’s to wait for/how it happened in the OG? Like:

Aerith scene: she only knows fake Cloud, who falls for her and tries to get her but misses the chance of building anything with her cause she disappears/dies - and it’s literally shown with fake!Cloud trying to grab her arm but she disappears.

Meanwhile Tifa gets real Cloud to hug her as a parallel to the HA Highwind scene.

It’s all the parallels and dichotomy that I find interesting.

 

[Final_Heaven]

Unsure I follow the train of thought in your post. What aspect of those exchanges precludes Cloud from having feelings for Aerith?

Uh none? I just thought it was a parallel to what’s to wait for/how it happened in the OG? Like:

Aerith scene: she only knows fake Cloud, who falls for her and tries to get her but misses the chance of building anything with her cause she disappears/dies - and it’s literally shown with fake!Cloud trying to grab her arm but she disappears.

Meanwhile Tifa gets real Cloud to hug her as a parallel to the HA Highwind scene.

It’s all the parallels and dichotomy that I find interesting.

I noticed that too.

My impression was that Nojima was trying to emphasize the dichotomy between reality and fantasy.

Cloud is in a dream (fantasy), can’t touch Aerith(she’s a fantasy here) and his romantic feelings are called out as not real/in his imagination by Aerith probably because they stem from his false persona (another fantasy of his)

Whereas he is in reality when he sees Tifa, physically embraces her and all those feelings stem from his real persona

 

[DutchDread]

I noticed that too.

My impression was that Nojima was trying to emphasize the dichotomy between reality and fantasy.

Cloud is in a dream (fantasy), can’t touch Aerith(she’s a fantasy here) and his romantic feelings are called out as not real/in his imagination by Aerith probably because they stem from his false persona (another fantasy of his)

Whereas he is in reality when he sees Tifa, physically embraces her and all those feelings stem from his real persona

I am usually the first to say that Tifa represents reality while Aerith represents fantasy, still, I have to wonder if we're not projecting our own assumptions on scenes like this. I agree that it works, and that in general, the "tifa is reality, aerith is fantasy" lens is a great way to look at FFVII, but I wonder if it was intentional here. After all, it's not like they consciously chose to not have Aerith there in the flesh, she literally COULD NOT be there.

 

[Final_Heaven]

I am usually the first to say that Tifa represents reality while Aerith represents fantasy, still, I have to wonder if we're not projecting our own assumptions on scenes like this. I agree that it works, and that in general, the "tifa is reality, aerith is fantasy" lens is a great way to look at FFVII, but I wonder if it was intentional here. After all, it's not like they consciously chose to not have Aerith there in the flesh, she literally COULD NOT be there.

My opinion on it is that that's why they chose that time and place to do resolution scenes when they did. I mean they could've picked another time and place to do a resolution when all 3 could be there.

Like...imagine if they had decided to put all 4 in a cell like they did in the OG at Shinra HQ and depending on how you played the game, you end up in a cell with the person you have said scene with. I mean it'd have a different dynamic but still...

But yeah, we could totally be projecting here. This is just speculation on my part.

 

[DutchDread]

My opinion on it is that that's why they chose that time and place to do resolution scenes when they did. I mean they could've picked another time and place to do a resolution when all 3 could be there.

Like...imagine if they had decided to put all 4 in a cell like they did in the OG at Shinra HQ and depending on how you played the game, you end up in a cell with the person you have said scene with. I mean it'd have a different dynamic but still...

Yeah, I thought about that, but really, was there a better place than at Elmyras after the 7 plate drop? And as a interlude before saving Aerith?
They COULD have done it at another time and place if they really NEEDED Aerith to be there physically, but I'd argue that this was just the best location and time, and they knew they could just give Aerith a vision/dream scene. So whether they ever thought "that works with the impression that we want to give about Aerith being fantasy and Tifa being reality"? I don't know, perhaps, but could also just be a lucky accident.

I know I personally would be very aware of it were I making the game, but I honestly have no idea if they think about it the same way. I hope so.

 

[Maidenofwar]

A good point, okay how about your ship can take the star imagery and mine can take the flowers? We'll just trade!

Also Maiden I just wanted to say thank you for continuing to pleasantly engage in the LTD even though I know the majority here don't always agree with your interpretations. A lot of your comments have given me really interesting things to think about, even when I don't always reach the same conclusions I appreciate gaining the perspective.

Thank yoouu

Spoiler

I think maybe it's always been this way a bit, even way back in OG you could give Tifa a flower or take Aerith to Bugenhagen's observatory where she sees a shooting star. So if drawing Tifa with flowers or Aerith with stars, and other things makes people happy I think it's probably ok, there's a great power in being able to create content to enjoy I think

Sorry for not being around here much recently, there's been a lot going on

Spoiler

Also I noticed last time I was on FFVIIR to check something, the story blurb for the "Language of Flowers" event basically says that Cloud and Aerith had/spent an enjoyable day together

 

[Eerie]

Yeah, I thought about that, but really, was there a better place than at Elmyras after the 7 plate drop? And as a interlude before saving Aerith?
They COULD have done it at another time and place if they really NEEDED Aerith to be there physically, but I'd argue that this was just the best location and time, and they knew they could just give Aerith a vision/dream scene. So whether they ever thought "that works with the impression that we want to give about Aerith being fantasy and Tifa being reality"? I don't know, perhaps, but could also just be a lucky accident.

I know I personally would be very aware of it were I making the game, but I honestly have no idea if they think about it the same way. I hope so.

I agree that this was the best time/place. It also allowed the girls to have very romantic undertones to their scenes - especially Tifa's, since her resolution in itself is about comfort.

But I think Aerith's resolution has been made with that imagery in mind. Cloud could have chosen to not try to grab her, yet here he is, and that, imho, is what gives the most the parallel/foreshadowing of him losing her before they could build something.

 

[MasterMoogle]

I noticed that too.

My impression was that Nojima was trying to emphasize the dichotomy between reality and fantasy.

Cloud is in a dream (fantasy), can’t touch Aerith(she’s a fantasy here) and his romantic feelings are called out as not real/in his imagination by Aerith probably because they stem from his false persona (another fantasy of his)

Whereas he is in reality when he sees Tifa, physically embraces her and all those feelings stem from his real persona

Maybe the dream sequence was a message from his real self, buried in his subconscious. That same voice that speaks to Cloud in the original. It would explain why there was so little interaction between Cloud and Aerith in Shinra HQ.

Just a theory.

 

[Yumelinh]

Maybe the dream sequence was a message from his real self, buried in his subconscious. That same voice that speaks to Cloud in the original. It would explain why there was so little interaction between Cloud and Aerith in Shinra HQ.

Just a theory.

It's a valid theory, but I doubt it since it's the dream sequence is stated to be Aerith's resolution, so It's most likely that she is the holder of the message there. If I had to guess as we discussed here before, it may be more of a nod to older players than something that will be heavily referenced in the plot in the coming games. ( my bet is that they'll keep acting like these character's resolutions never happened lol).

 

[Graymouse]

Have you noticed that in the Remake, that Cloud only really accepted the date with Tifa? The other two girls kinda forced it onto him. Here is some proof. I couldn't find videos for the exact parts but I did find some videos with the part in them. I suppose some could say I cherry picked these videos, but not really. The only thing that is important in this discussion is the "asking out on a date" part. So here goes.

First video, Aerith and Cloud. Cloud said that it will cost Aerith a lot for him to do bodyguard work. Aertih says that one date should do it, as payment for bodyguard work. Cloud did not necessary verbally agree to it, it is mostly because of the situation at hand. Reno was trying to take Aerith. Of course Cloud wouldn't let that happen. So here, the point is that Aerith kinda forced his hand. To me this really isn't a mutual agreement.

Second video, Jessie and Cloud. Jessie ask if Cloud would come over to Jessie's house to have pizza. Jessie being way more thirsty then the other two, practically jumped into Clouds arms. "I won't make any promises" was his response. Kinda tells me that he is only saying that to get Jessie to take it down a few notches.

Final video, Tifa, asking Cloud out on a date. This one is interesting. This one can only be viewed if you completed all the side quests in CH3. I can not speak for everyone but I am sure a lot of people saw this scene. Just by naturally playing the game. What I like about it the most is that Tifa was genuinely happy to go out on a date with cloud. Cloud also, accepted the date. It wasn't forced on him like the other two girls. Also, not that it matters but I think it was done on purpose. Tifa's Theme plays during this as well.

 

[Maidenofwar]

I never understood why these types of arguments are necessary. I've seen people say Tifa forced Cloud into the whole water filter ordeal in the first place and remark on his annoyed/negative (apparently according to) body language in the scene before they head out to work too and that he obviously didn't enjoy his time in Sector 7 as much, etc. At the end of the day Cloud enjoyed his time with the girls and no Aerith's special scene isn't that much harder to get, they both have some easy quests then some harder ones and Sector 7 has a maze dungeon even non shippers have complained about being annoying and mazey. Well both areas have some pros and cons it could be said maybe.

 

[Master Bates]

Cloud in Tifa's room will always remind me of Tifa showing Cloud his apartment, which further reminds me of the one official instance when Tifa and the word "flat" were used together in a single sentence and I just cannot deal. I cannot un-know this. I wish I could wipe that Nojima interview from my memory.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Why? What's wrong with flat? I mean Cloud's room is more of a bedsit... well not even that, since it has no cooking facilities.