SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[odekopeko]

Sephiroth clones has entered the chat.

 

[Eerie]

Lmao sorry for English speakers, everyone knows that in JP (and French for that matter), it isn’t the same word ?

 

[odekopeko]

Since other Jp players I know are starting to tweet about the differences between the Japanese and English scripts...

I'm sorry, but can I just go back to that one scene again in Ch.8? My issue is I can't seem to unhear the Japanese version, so when I approach this scene in English, I already have the Japanese script imprinted in my mind, and I'm trying to understand how this scene could end up so butchered when I'm talking to shippers who played the English version. I just realized the "taisetsu na hito deshou?" line from Aerith was removed in English, which completely changes things, in terms of the LTD.


English Version
Aerith: Is Tifa, like...your girlfriend?
Cloud: No.
Aerith: But she's someone special.
Cloud: It's not like that.

Does this sound like he's denying that she's someone special to a native English speaker?

Japanese Version
Aerith: Is Tifa...your girlfriend?
Cloud: No.
Aerith: You're getting defensive.
Cloud: It's not like that.

Here, in the Japanese, Cloud was saying "it's not like that" in response to Aerith saying, "you're getting defensive". That leads into Chapter 9.

Japanese Version
Aerith: She's someone special/important to you, right? [no pronoun here, could read as You/We] have to help her!

English Version
Aerith: Aren't you worried about what might happen in there? You have to help her!

Does this mean that Cloud, in the English version, never acknowledges that Tifa is someone special, while in the Japanese version he does not deny this? So in English, does it look like he denied any romantic connection the first time, and Aerith never acknowledges that she knows Tifa is someone special to Cloud?

 

[minami758]

@odekopeko

To give some credit to the English (localization is difficult given cultural differences and nuances), I don't think you can really come out of the English scene in Chapter 8 thinking that Tifa isn't important to Cloud without some serious twisting, because he does say he can't explain their relationship. So it's something akin to "more than friends, less than lovers."

That said, the Chapter 9 scene with "taisetsu na hito" is definitely toned down, so that is a bummer. The English localization does take liberties, and I do think in this particular instance it doesn't emphasize Tifa being as important to Cloud as much as the Japanese dialogue does.

 

[ForceStealer]

English Version
Aerith: Is Tifa, like...your girlfriend?
Cloud: No.
Aerith: But she's someone special.
Cloud: It's not like that.

Does this sound like he's denying that she's someone special to a native English speaker?

The text ignores Aerith's tone of voice. She's clearly asking him teasingly. That's what he's responding to with "it's not like that."
And yes, as Minami says, Cloud's next line pretty well implies their "more than friends, less than lovers" status.

 

[Yumelinh]

"more than friends, less than lovers."

This brings me "war flashbacks" of a pairing I loved, but unfortunately didn't come to become canon lol D:


Jokes aside, I understand @odekopeko question, by reading it like this it does feels that his "No!" was more about 'Tifa being important to him' question even though, as you said, what he says after it does imply something more.

in Japanese, it seems more "in your face" tho... come to think of it, they might have taken the 'important person' that was used here from that scene bf they to go Wall Market.

 

[odekopeko]

Alright, I appreciate the explanations, @minami758 @ForceStealer. I understood the scene the same way, as I mentioned in an earlier post, but it's just that after talking to some people yesterday, I got a little confused. Thought maybe something got lost in translation.

 

[Final_Heaven]

@odekopeko

To give some credit to the English (localization is difficult given cultural differences and nuances), I don't think you can really come out of the English scene in Chapter 8 thinking that Tifa isn't important to Cloud without some serious twisting, because he does say he can't explain their relationship. So it's something akin to "more than friends, less than lovers."

That said, the Chapter 9 scene with "taisetsu na hito" is definitely toned down, so that is a bummer. The English localization does take liberties, and I do think in this particular instance it doesn't emphasize Tifa being as important to Cloud as much as the Japanese dialogue does.

This brings me "war flashbacks" of a pairing I loved, but unfortunately didn't come to become canon lol D:


Jokes aside, I understand @odekopeko question, by reading it like this it does feels that his "No!" was more about 'Tifa being important to him' question even though, as you said, what he says after it does imply something more.

in Japanese, it seems more "in your face" tho... come to think of it, they might have taken the 'important person' that was used here from that scene bf they to go Wall Market.

Since other Jp players I know are starting to tweet about the differences between the Japanese and English scripts...

I'm sorry, but can I just go back to that one scene again in Ch.8? My issue is I can't seem to unhear the Japanese version, so when I approach this scene in English, I already have the Japanese script imprinted in my mind, and I'm trying to understand how this scene could end up so butchered when I'm talking to shippers who played the English version. I just realized the "taisetsu na hito deshou?" line from Aerith was removed in English, which completely changes things, in terms of the LTD.


English Version
Aerith: Is Tifa, like...your girlfriend?
Cloud: No.
Aerith: But she's someone special.
Cloud: It's not like that.

Does this sound like he's denying that she's someone special to a native English speaker?

Japanese Version
Aerith: Is Tifa...your girlfriend?
Cloud: No.
Aerith: You're getting defensive.
Cloud: It's not like that.

Here, in the Japanese, Cloud was saying "it's not like that" in response to Aerith saying, "you're getting defensive". That leads into Chapter 9.

Japanese Version
Aerith: She's someone special/important to you, right? [no pronoun here, could read as You/We] have to help her!

English Version
Aerith: Aren't you worried about what might happen in there? You have to help her!

Does this mean that Cloud, in the English version, never acknowledges that Tifa is someone special, while in the Japanese version he does not deny this? So in English, does it look like he denied any romantic connection the first time, and Aerith never acknowledges that she knows Tifa is someone special to Cloud?

It does make her seem lesser n in Cloud's eyes compared to the JP version.

English Cloud is denying romantic interest in Tifa but then with him saying "I don't know how to explain", it sets up that they have a special connection.

So that gives people enough wiggle room to be on the fence on whether it's platonic or romantic special connection.

The Japanese version makes it pretty clear that Cloud has a romantic interest in Tifa that he doesn't want to talk about which gels with Cloud not wanting to talk about the flower he gave Tifa to Aerith.

 

[Yumelinh]

So that gives people enough wiggle room to be on the fence on whether it's platonic or romantic special connection.

The Japanese version makes it pretty clear that Cloud has a romantic interest in Tifa that he doesn't want to talk about which gels with Cloud not wanting to talk about the flower he gave Tifa to Aerith.

I'm not so sure if the jp scene implies that he's fully aware he has a romantic interest in Tifa, but maybe more like that he doesn't understand his feelings himself? Hence why he gets defensive when Aerith is trying to pry on it? ( I may have misunderstood your intentions here tho, so let me know if I did o/)

I'm with the impression that Cloud doesn't really get his feelings for either girl at this point. He's just a mess of confused feelings right now lol

That said, I do agree that the EN version does leave a bit of room for speculations if people wanna go 'there' while the Japanese one is more direct, but I don't think it changes the overall result tbh.

 

[Final_Heaven]

I'm not so sure if the jp scene implies that he's fully aware he has a romantic interest in Tifa, but maybe more like that he doesn't understand his feelings himself? Hence why he gets defensive when Aerith is trying to pry on it? ( I may have misunderstood your intentions here tho, so let me know if I did o/)

I'm with the impression that Cloud doesn't really get his feelings for either girl at this point. He's just a mess of confused feelings right now lol

That said, I do agree that the EN version does leave a little bit of room to speculations if people want to go 'there' while the Japanese one is more direct, but I don't think it changes the overall result in the end tbh.

I meant more like a subconscious romantic interest.

And like, he can feel that something inside him doesn’t want to talk about it.

 

[Graymouse]

For me, that entire scene never did sit right with me at all. I think it is kinda unsettling on how much Aeirh pries into Cloud's personal affairs there. Especially after only meeting someone a day earlier.

One thing too I think everyone is forgetting is Clouds mind state. He is afterall has a mind of a 16 year old. A teenager.

As teenager of course if someone "accuses" you of have having a girlfriend or having a crush on someone, the teenage defense mechanism kicks in and that person will deny it. This shows in the next sentence when he says it is difficult to explain.

Sorry for the spelling, I am on moble.

 

[loozzer]

For me, that entire scene never did sit right with me at all. I think it is kinda unsettling on how much Aeirh pries into Cloud's personal affairs there. Especially after only meeting someone a day earlier.

lol i feel attacked, this is definitely something i would do especially with someone who seems super closed off or socially awkward. and then i'd probably laugh at them a bit afterwards when they get all flustered.

 

[odekopeko]

English Cloud is denying romantic interest in Tifa but then with him saying "I don't know how to explain", it sets up that they have a special connection.

So that gives people enough wiggle room to be on the fence on whether it's platonic or romantic special connection.

The Japanese version makes it pretty clear that Cloud has a romantic interest in Tifa that he doesn't want to talk about which gels with Cloud not wanting to talk about the flower he gave Tifa to Aerith.

The Jp doesn't actually make this clear. There's enough ambiguity there too, but you come away with the impression that there's something more going on between them that he doesn't want to admit to for some reason.

What concerned me there was that people I spoke with made it seem like he was downright upset about Aerith calling Tifa his "someone special" because, in their words, his firm denial was him rejecting the thought of being with Tifa in a romantic way. That's where I got confused, because that was certainly not the case in Japanese. He got worked up over Aerith pointing out his defensive behavior.

And in the Jp version, we know Aerith obviously didn't buy this, because she later acknowledged that Tifa is special/important to him because she said so outright. I'm repeating the same things, and maybe I sound like I'm nitpicking. Maybe in the long run, this moment won't even matter.

@Graymouse I feel bad. I'm usually the "Aerith" type when meeting new people. The kind to sit close to someone right away, and start asking personal questions. Makes me think maybe I need to respect people's spaces a bit more, as it's probably really unsettling for other people.

 

[Graymouse]

@odekopeko @loozzer

Guys, I am sorry that I upset you. It wasn't intentional. I wasnt trying to be brash. Gomen! Gomen! I guess I am just very reserved person, I have always been. So, I guess that is where this view comes from. I am sorry if I offended.

 

[Final_Heaven]

The Jp doesn't actually make this clear. There's enough ambiguity there too, but you come away with the impression that there's something more going on between them that he doesn't want to admit to for some reason.

What concerned me there was that people I spoke with made it seem like he was downright upset about Aerith calling Tifa his "someone special" because, in their words, his firm denial was him rejecting the thought of being with Tifa in a romantic way. That's where I got confused, because that was certainly not the case in Japanese. He got worked up over Aerith pointing out his defensive behavior.

And in the Jp version, we know Aerith obviously didn't buy this, because she later acknowledged that Tifa is special/important to him because she said so outright. I'm repeating the same things, and maybe I sound like I'm nitpicking. Maybe in the long run, this moment won't even matter.

@Graymouse I feel bad. I'm usually the "Aerith" type when meeting new people. The kind to sit close to someone right away, and start asking personal questions. Makes me think maybe I need to respect people's spaces a bit more, as it's probably really unsettling for other people.

Yeah, you're right. I wouldn't say it "makes it pretty clear" when I think it over again.

For the record, I actually prefer "Aerith" type people interacting with me because I'm bad at initiating convo so I prefer it when people ask me questions. I would only hate it if I didn't like the other person.

But that's because I'm a shy person that gets easily embarrassed at showing interest whether platonic or romantic in others. If they show interest in me first, it's easier for me to interact.

Graymouse has a different personality than me though.

 

[odekopeko]

@odekopeko @loozzer

Guys, I am sorry that I upset you. It wasn't intentional. I wasnt trying to be brash. Gomen! Gomen! I guess I am just very reserved person, I have always been. So, I guess that is where this view comes from. I am sorry if I offended.

Nooo, no need to apologize to me, at least. I wasn't taking it seriously.

 

[a_apple 2.0]

I feel like the idea of jealousy is differently regarded in the west and east. Like I saw so many japanese fans who act like it's the cutest shit ever that Tifa has moments of jealousy while in the west for some reason its like it's almost shameful that Tifa might feel jealousy even though to me it just shows how much she is into Cloud lol

Also we have Cloud getting jelly over Tifa too but for some reason that is getting kept ignored.

 

[loozzer]

@odekopeko @loozzer

Guys, I am sorry that I upset you. It wasn't intentional. I wasnt trying to be brash. Gomen! Gomen! I guess I am just very reserved person, I have always been. So, I guess that is where this view comes from. I am sorry if I offended.

haha no i was joking i understand that sometimes outgoing personalities can be a bit much.

with regards to aerith it would definitely be annoying if cloud didn't like her but since he's pretty fond of her i don't think he minds much.

 

[RhinoKart]

I feel like the idea of jealousy is differently regarded in the west and east. Like I saw so many japanese fans who act like it's the cutest shit ever that Tifa has moments of jealousy while in the west for some reason its like it's almost shameful that Tifa might feel jealousy even though to me it just shows how much Tifa is into Cloud lol

Also we have Cloud getting jelly over Tifa too but for some reason that is getting kept ignored.

I actually think the problem is due to the history of the LTD where Tifa expressing jealousy is used against her to indicate she is a bad person, or that she is inferior to Aerith. I'm not saying that is true, just that this argument has been made for many years, so people get defensive about it.

As you say Cloud gets jealous over other guys speaking about Tifa several times and nobody is batting an eye about it. I don't personally see it as negative if Tifa expresses a mild jealousy over Cloud hiding things about Aerith from her. Given her portrayal as a loving, but insecure person, expressing some jealousy over what appears to be a budding relationship between the guy she likes and her new friend doesn't seem weird. In fact the fact that she can feel insecure about it, but still show both of them all the love and support in the world is a testament to how wonderful a person she is.

I'm off on a tangent now, but my personal feeling by the end or remake is that Cloud and Tifa have feelings for each other, but Tifa thinks Cloud has feelings for Aerith, and Cloud doesn't know if Tifa is in to him or not.

 

[shersita007]

My understanding about Aerith invading Cloud with personal questions when they met like 1 day ago, is something normal and usual especially on reserved persons like Cloud to answer and react the way he did.

But the red Flag was his last statement, 'he can't explain' what Tifa means for him, I mean, if a guy or girl give you that answer about someone of the opposite sex, That's a red Flag, because those are feelings more than friends, not yet lovers, but could become lovers in the future because the feelings are there, and if I were in Aerith shoes I will back off, because it will be a relation of 3 lol.

But I guess people can intérpret things in other ways, but is pretty clear that something is lingering there waiting to emerge.

 

[minami758]

@a_apple 2.0 @RhinoKart

I think it's a combination of both aspects that you're discussing re: jealousy, haha. "Jealousy" as a topic in (English) LTD debates isn't a fun rabbit hole to go down, so I think people do get prickly over it. But also, a lot of Japanese fans do find Tifa's moments of jealousy endearing and cute, as it's a clear indicator of her romantic interest in Cloud. And vice versa, I've found many Japanese fans go nuts over Cloud's protectiveness of Tifa, not to mention the fact that he hugs her in her resolution. Doesn't matter that it takes him a few moments to reciprocate, the fact that he does speaks volumes to his character and their relationship.

Just going off some basic streams/playthroughs, I haven't seen anyone (in Japanese or English) who's reacted negatively to the hug ⁠(unless they're not a fan of CT) — it's all variations of: "Holy shit just hug her already... oh my god HUG HER.... HU⁠- YESSSSS!" Which, I think, is the intended reaction, lol. The payoff is quite deliberate and satisfying in that scene.

 

[shersita007]

My understanding about Aerith invading Cloud with personal questions when they met like 1 day ago, is something normal and usual especially on reserved persons like Cloud to answer and react the way he did.

But the red Flag was his last statement, 'he can't explain' what Tifa means for him, I mean, if a guy or girl give you that answer about someone of the opposite sex, That's a red Flag, because those are feelings more than friends, not yet lovers, but could become lovers in the future because the feelings are there, and if I were in Aerith shoes I will back off, because it will be a relation of 3 lol.

But I guess people can intérpret things in other ways, but is pretty clear that something is lingering there waiting to emerge

 

[Edley]

Cloud can't explain his feelings towards Tifa because he doesn't remember them clearly/Jenova mixing up his thoughts. Tifa is also insecure about everything relating to Cloud as she's yet to properly deal with the trauma of Nibelheim and he's a huge reminder of the thing she's spent the past five years trying to bury. She doesn't remember he was there in the reactor, but he's the only thing still in her life from her past.

I'll be surprised if Aerith doesn't figure out Cloud and Tifa before they do. She doesn't have to have foreknowledge to see the nature of their feelings.

On the other hand, it's pretty clear that Cloud just came back into Tifa's life in remake and Aerith's obviously brand new to the team. I don't think anyone is pushing past unsure feelings of attraction that are taking a back seat to the going's on of the world at this point in the story.

 

[Purple]

Late but I don’t see anything wrong about the localization of the chapter 8 scene. I certainly didn’t come out with a different view even after reading the Japanese version. At the end of the day, if you can’t explain why someone is not special, then chances are they are, indeed, special.

It’s sort of a trope used often in the romance genre.

As for that chapter 9 scene, I think the same thought was sent across. “Aren’t you worried” “Isn’t she important” may sound vastly different but personally, I worry for important people in my life. Maybe the same principle applies to Cloud too.

This is in no way to offend you @odekopeko. I hope I didn’t come off as rude. Lol.

IMO some fans are too harsh on the English localization, some shippers on social media particularly.

 

[odekopeko]

@Purple you were in no way offensive. I meant that this was the same feeling I originally got from the scene in English, but a specific set of shippers who were native English speakers made it seem otherwise.

My last post questioning the translation was framed that way due to their misconceptions that had me doubting my own understanding of the scene, so I wanted to backtrack and double check. I do personally feel that the English localization did a great job overall.