SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

minami758

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Miiwoo
Man, I wish they'd stuck with the "we won't tell you what to think", but some people aren't happy until every last ambiguity and nuance is explained to them.

Helloooo, been lurking since the new stuff came out.

I kind of want to push back a little at this sentiment, not that I don't think it's valid, but more that I don't think the information that's been revealed in the new Traces novel (not sure about the Ultimania yet I haven't really delved into it) really changes that much of Cloud and Tifa's relationship in the larger scheme of things. Also that, while I don't love being told what to think or how to interpret something either, the misunderstandings that stem from the OG — which imo isn't actually that ambiguous — due to mistranslations or otherwise, are so prevalent among FFVII fans that I think it does a disservice to the characters. It's different from reading a novel or watching a film where themes or plot points are left purposefully vague, here I don't think it was ever purposeful.

As a fan of Tifa's characterization, it's often been frustrating to read how she was a bully or how she deliberately excluded Cloud from her friend group. While we obviously know that's not the case, this point of view is still so common; and I don't believe it'll go away with this novel release either because not everyone consumes everything FFVII and it's not widely available to an international audience, but at least it's some indication that they're working to correct these misunderstandings that actually have a large impact on how people see the characters. And we can see they do this in the Remake itself too.

I have seen some annoyance elsewhere that the new novel "retcons" Cloud and Tifa not really having been friends and that it cheapens the reveal from the OG and the development of their relationship as adults, which I don't really think is the case.

At least from the tidbits and summaries I've seen floating around, it doesn't seem like they were BFFs/inseparable or anything, just that they were playmates as young children before Tifa's mother died, which makes sense because they were neighbors and the village had, like, less than 20 people living in it. And as kids it's not like they were baring their souls to each other, they just kinda bopped around having fun sometimes, like finding Tifa's cat. Cloud had a crush on her, but we already knew that.

And once Tifa's mother died they drifted apart, which also makes sense since all the adults thought Cloud was a bad influence on her due to the other kids' lies. So Cloud was relegated to admiring Tifa from afar, and Tifa was left confused but still interested in Cloud because she always felt the explanation of him forcing her up the mountain was weird. She thought he was handsome and admired his attitude (and like a lot of teenage girls refused to admit it was because she had a crush), but never really approached him again until he asked her to the water tower.

I actually like this explanation because it's in line with her expressions and response to his declaration that he was going to leave for Midgar. In the Remake, you can see that she looks briefly upset when he says he's leaving before pivoting to the promise. I don't think she'd agree to meet him at the water tower at all (even in the OG) if she weren't already marginally interested in him as a person, nor would she have made that promise if she didn't want him to keep in touch.

She clearly didn't know that much about him because this is the moment she realizes that he's just an ordinary boy with big dreams, so it doesn't contradict the idea that she didn't know him well or that they weren't close friends, imo. It just illuminates a bit more of what Tifa thought of Cloud at the time, and it's not drastically different from what I would've expected already. And then of course she began to think of him even more once he left.

I do agree that the romantic-ness of it all is a bit much, but I dunno it's kinda cute too because it's like the ruminations of a teenage girl.
 

KindOfBlue

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Blue
I think it’s going to be tricky to really place what Aerith is feeling until we see how exactly Zack factors into this new version of the story…as far as Cloud goes, I don’t think his current condition precludes him from bonding with Aerith but the unfortunate reality is that he cannot truly be with anybody until he rediscovers himself and by the time that happens, well…
 

kathy202

Pro Adventurer
Looking at the original Japanese text that Eerie shared, and after a lot of pain trying to decipher it with my dysfunctional command of that language, I'm still confused by this line and would appreciate it if anyone could clarify:

それでも失望しなかったのは星降る夜の魔法のおかげだろうか。それとも、少し気負ったクラウドが愛おしく思えたからだろうか。

These are Cloud's thoughts right? Not Tifa's? Ugh the lack of explicit changes of subject in this language kills my brains. I read it as Cloud rather minding the fact that Tifa wasn't disappointed and making a mental excuse to attribute it to the magic of the starlit night (ugh this sounds so corny). That sounds so like Cloud, but I don't trust my knowledge of the language at all.

And I'm now very curious how an official translation is going read like. Are they gonna go with "sappy teen novel" style? Or is there some other way to write this without the "sappy" part of it, i.e. is it the contents or the language that makes it so?

But yeah, all this aligns with my headcanon of their childhood too. Probably because they're like that even as adults. Both having a thing for each other but never saying it.
 
Well, here's how deepl translates it:
"Was it the magic of the starry night that kept me from being disappointed? Or maybe it was the fact that Cloud was a little too self-conscious for my liking?"
I can't tell you if Cloud is referring to himself in the 3rd person here, or whether it's someone else thinking about him.
 

minami758

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Miiwoo
それでも失望しなかったのは星降る夜の魔法のおかげだろうか。それとも、少し気負ったクラウドが愛おしく思えたからだろうか。

These are Cloud's thoughts right? Not Tifa's? Ugh the lack of explicit changes of subject in this language kills my brains. I read it as Cloud rather minding the fact that Tifa wasn't disappointed and making a mental excuse to attribute it to the magic of the starlit night (ugh this sounds so corny). That sounds so like Cloud, but I don't trust my knowledge of the language at all.

From my rudimentary understanding, it reads like Tifa's thoughts in response to Cloud's declaration that he's leaving — she thought he was going to confess to her, so the fact that he doesn't should disappoint her. But she wonders if it's the atmosphere/magic of the starry night that keeps her from being disappointed or if it's because she finds Cloud's shyness/self-consciousness endearing.

I could be completely wrong though I am not an expert, lol.
 
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loozzer

Pro Adventurer
i feel like the novel is basically the beginning of the end of the LTD. if the translations are accurate, then tifa literally tells aerith that she loves cloud. i can't imagine aerith entertaining cloud's feelings for her after she learns about how tifa feels.

but i guess people can still argue about which girl cloud loves more lol. still, it really seems like they're moving towards making cloti/zerith the endgame couples

edit: ok it seems as if tifa was just lost in thought and didn't actually say that part to aerith out loud. but aerith has been very perceptive in the remake, i'd bet good money that she's already aware of tifa's feelings
 
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The Twilight Mexican

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From my rudimentary understanding, it reads like Tifa's thoughts in response to Cloud's declaration that he's leaving — she thought he was going to confess to her, so the fact that he doesn't should disappoint her. But she wonders if it's the atmosphere/magic of the starry night that keeps her from being disappointed or if it's because she finds Cloud's shyness/self-consciousness endearing.
This is definitely it. She finds his anxiousness here a positive rather than a negative.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Yeah I find it really endearing that she feels that she can love Cloud because he's normal. It shows this girl has her feet on earth (now I'm realising this is a French saying and no clue if it exists in English lol).

Spotted those from the Ultimania Plus:


As we already knew, when Aerith mentions that, we get Cloud turning to Tifa and the Ultimania makes clear that yes, he's looking at her.

But also:


I did not catch that Aerith felt a pang of jealousy here! As I was saying earlier, it's hard to protect yourself from feelings, uh, Aerith dear? ;)
 

a_apple 2.0

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a_apple
Yeah I find it really endearing that she feels that she can love Cloud because he's normal. It shows this girl has her feet on earth (now I'm realising this is a French saying and no clue if it exists in English lol).

Spotted those from the Ultimania Plus:


As we already knew, when Aerith mentions that, we get Cloud turning to Tifa and the Ultimania makes clear that yes, he's looking at her.

But also:


I did not catch that Aerith felt a pang of jealousy here! As I was saying earlier, it's hard to protect yourself from feelings, uh, Aerith dear? ;)
I don't think Aerith is jealous here, at this point she is pretty removed from her "ordinary girl side" and is in full protector of the Planet mind set, it would be kinda weird for her to suddenly care about shit like that.
The Cloud looking at Tifa after Aerith speech over "having someone You want to protect" part makes sense tho
 

MelodicEnigma

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Yeeeah, I'm inclined to agree, especially considering there's no actual reaction from Aerith in the cutscene anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong, but "hot" in this case is from 熱い atsui (what's written is adverb form 熱く atsuku), which given the context, I believe "passionately" fits better, which would refer to the next part of her speech. So like: "Aerith becomes a little more passionate" or something, is the idea. Has nothing to do with jealousy as far as I'm concerned, but all I saw was a screenshot of the text in the book, so maybe there's something missing?
 

a_apple 2.0

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a_apple
Yeeeah, I'm inclined to agree, especially considering there's no actual reaction from Aerith in the cutscene anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong, but "hot" in this case is from 熱い atsui (what's written is adverb form 熱く atsuku), which given the context, I believe "passionately" fits better, which would refer to the next part of her speech. So like: "Aerith becomes a little more passionate" or something, is the idea. Has nothing to do with jealousy as far as I'm concerned, but all I saw was a screenshot of the text in the book, so maybe there's something missing?
Yeah that's my interpretation too. But I'm glad it confirms that he was actually looking over at Tifa, since even though that was kinda mine impression of that scene in general, I never was sure if that actually was what was happening there or if Cloud was just looking down or something
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Oh yeah I forgot, I talked with @odekopeko about this quote and she said it could also mean that Aerith is uncomfortable when she sees Cloud looking at Tifa.
 

Phantasia

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I don't think Aerith is jealous here, at this point she is pretty removed from her "ordinary girl side" and is in full protector of the Planet mind set, it would be kinda weird for her to suddenly care about shit like that.

Yeah, I agree 100%. Sometimes our shipping glasses makes us interpret things in baffling ways.

"Character A talks to character B = Soulmates destined to be together"

It's kinda funny sometimes, considering the age range of fans in this fandom.
 

MelodicEnigma

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Oh yeah I forgot, I talked with @odekopeko about this quote and she said it could also mean that Aerith is uncomfortable when she sees Cloud looking at Tifa.

Really? It doesn't seem to fit really with the different ways the word is defined. But, perhaps it all depends on whether the text is actually in response to what's describing Cloud looking at Tifa, or, if it's acting as a segue into the next part of her speech, which would match how the cutscene unfolds. I don't have the book though and can't see the full page, though.
 

Eerie

Fire and Blood
The text is a consequence of Cloud looking at Tifa. This is how Aerith feels: a bit jealous/uncomfortable. Which makes sense: she is starting to develop feelings for him and clearly sees that the person he wants to protect is her new best friend. I mean we can turn that however we want but that’s what’s written and how Japanese fans interpret it soooooo *shrugs*
 

MelodicEnigma

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I don't know those fans, but I see not everyone sees it that way anyway. lol If I was going by the text, "jealous/uncomfortable" is not really what's written—that sounds more like a mistake in reading it contextually, I'd say, which anyone, even JPN fans can do. If the red text is showing what Aerith is feeling in correlation to what she's doing, it being about her speech is a better bet imo. But I'll agree it's hard to know what it's referring to—it'd be a lot easier if I had the book, admittedly.
 

MelodicEnigma

Pro Adventurer
Yup, that's what I've seen! But that's my point, considering what actually happens in the cutscene, which right after Cloud looking at Tifa, is Aerith continuing on her speech, the placement of that text could be a segue to what should be the script of the next part of her speech. Which, saying she's becoming a little more passionate fits not only what the actual text is saying, but that of the context of the scene and script itself. If this is from the Voice Script section, then that's something that normally happens based on other examples I've seen. It gives introspection, but it's in flow with what's happening in the scene.
 
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