Makoeyes987
Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
- AKA
- Smooth Criminal
Any chance you can share where one might find these leaks?
I literally posted them in the Rebirth thread lol
SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke
- Thread starter The Twilight Mexican
- Start date
I literally posted them in the Rebirth thread lol
KindOfBlue
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Blue
My bad, didn’t even notice that thread updated lmao I’ll check it out
EDIT:
Y’all are too easy. Now behold, the ACTUAL leaks:
Jokes aside, I’m of course reserving judgement for when the game is out. But IF what I read is true, then the internet will surely have a field day with that lol.
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BioTeach
Pro Adventurer
I take leaks like this with a grain of salt. I really can't see both dates being explicitly romantic. I feel like that would really paint Cloud in a bad light to show him getting romantic with both Tifa and Aerith. Whichever side you're on, that's a bad look. For the record, I see it the same way for Aerith if they show her really going after Cloud in one timeline (or whatever it is) and having a happy reunion with Zack in the other. (Yes, I know she is allowed to move on from Zack, but I don't think SE went through all the trouble of getting Zack back to find her only for her to have no more interest in him - assuming she wakes up and they get to interact.) Just my two cents on this hot topic 
Dr Frasier Crane
Pro Adventurer
All right folks: part 2 is out next month. Let’s get back into it.
So I’ve had a mostly peaceful 2 and half years, but the marketing campaign has kicked in and it’s caused both me and apparently a bunch of other people to capture brain worms about this 27-year-old mess. Again. However, while I’ve been lurking all this time, some of the people posting on Twitter and Reddit would do well to heed Cody and Brianna’s advice. Hilariously, the FFVIIRemake subreddit is non stop with shipping posts at the moment despite the protestations.
Here’s one thing I’d appreciate people’s thoughts on: what takes do people have on the phone call at the end of “Reminiscence of Final Fantasy VII”? For any who might be unaware it’s a DVD extra that came alongside Advent Children.
Skip to 5:30 for the good stuff
I mean - doesn’t this provide the closure that was kind of lacking at the end of Advent Children? Cloud’s back on the delivery service grindset, he’s proactively calling Tifa instead of ignoring her calls, and he’s proposing a day off for the whole “family” (I’m sorry Barrett, I really am). I know this didn’t settle the debate way back when, but - I’m kind of surprised that it didn’t to be honest. There must be something special going on if Cloud Strife is taking the initiative about doing stuff like this. Am I off the mark?
So I’ve had a mostly peaceful 2 and half years, but the marketing campaign has kicked in and it’s caused both me and apparently a bunch of other people to capture brain worms about this 27-year-old mess. Again. However, while I’ve been lurking all this time, some of the people posting on Twitter and Reddit would do well to heed Cody and Brianna’s advice. Hilariously, the FFVIIRemake subreddit is non stop with shipping posts at the moment despite the protestations.
Here’s one thing I’d appreciate people’s thoughts on: what takes do people have on the phone call at the end of “Reminiscence of Final Fantasy VII”? For any who might be unaware it’s a DVD extra that came alongside Advent Children.
Skip to 5:30 for the good stuff
I mean - doesn’t this provide the closure that was kind of lacking at the end of Advent Children? Cloud’s back on the delivery service grindset, he’s proactively calling Tifa instead of ignoring her calls, and he’s proposing a day off for the whole “family” (I’m sorry Barrett, I really am). I know this didn’t settle the debate way back when, but - I’m kind of surprised that it didn’t to be honest. There must be something special going on if Cloud Strife is taking the initiative about doing stuff like this. Am I off the mark?
Maidenofwar
They/Them
It only paints Cloud in a bad light if you apply a strict moral code to a video game. With multiple variants and different options it's giving off dragon age/baldur's gate vibes, like from those type of games.
Well C/A date has already been confirmed romantic. The trailer, staff comments, v/a positivity/excitement supports that.
Which would mean the C/T leak is wrong so ehhh.
Dr Frasier you come in here with some logic, logic in my LTD!?, how dare
Only going to comment about Barret and that's to say, Barret will always be Marlene's dad, anyone who plays the game can see how protective he is of her, and especially with Ever Crisis filling in the gaps, their back story, etc. Wee babs even calls the mans Daddy. Marlene seems to have good recall and remembers her formative years.
Well C/A date has already been confirmed romantic. The trailer, staff comments, v/a positivity/excitement supports that.
Which would mean the C/T leak is wrong so ehhh.
Dr Frasier you come in here with some logic, logic in my LTD!?, how dare
Only going to comment about Barret and that's to say, Barret will always be Marlene's dad, anyone who plays the game can see how protective he is of her, and especially with Ever Crisis filling in the gaps, their back story, etc. Wee babs even calls the mans Daddy. Marlene seems to have good recall and remembers her formative years.
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If they're gonna play the "both girls can have explicitly romantic scenes", then I want SE to do what games like the Witcher and Persona 5 offer the main protagonist as well: Negative consequences for whatever choice you make.
Yennefer and Triss can gang up to abandon Geralt if he plays both ends. They can cold shoulder him, be snarky, and scenes with all 3 are genuinely both awful, awkward and a hoot if he picks one over the other.
All the girls can beat up Joker after valentines day if he romances multiple
Have Tifa revoke Cloud's bike in a fit of pettiness and tell him he can set up his business base in the church with no plug points and wifi lol. Have Zack tell Aerith she belongs to the streets for throwing herself at his best friend. It would be hilarious and the FF7 shipper community would explode.
Yennefer and Triss can gang up to abandon Geralt if he plays both ends. They can cold shoulder him, be snarky, and scenes with all 3 are genuinely both awful, awkward and a hoot if he picks one over the other.
All the girls can beat up Joker after valentines day if he romances multiple
Have Tifa revoke Cloud's bike in a fit of pettiness and tell him he can set up his business base in the church with no plug points and wifi lol. Have Zack tell Aerith she belongs to the streets for throwing herself at his best friend. It would be hilarious and the FF7 shipper community would explode.
KindOfBlue
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Blue
My thing is, this whole thing about such and such characters having “explicitly romantic” scenes or whatever feels arbitrary to me if the remake goes in the direction of the OG LTD-wise.
No matter how explicit Cloud and Aerith’s romance is made to be, they do not end up together. No matter how much one might want Aerith to be Cloud’s endgame, she dies. And no matter how much one might want Cloud and Aerith to be exclusive, he and Tifa confirm their feelings for one another to one another in the Lifestream.
That’s just…how the story goes (again, assuming the remake keeps consistent to the OG on this subject.) So I don’t see the point in trying to appease everybody’s ships if it comes at the expense of good character development (nor do I think that’s what’s happening here).
Both ships will get their time to shine, but realistically, I think there’s only so much SE can do to keep an even playing field between both ships when one of them includes a character who dies halfway through the story.
Basically, I don’t want SE to skimp on Cloud and Tifa’s relationship just because they don’t want to let them get too ahead of Cloud and Aerith. If it’s okay for Aerith to move on from Zack to Cloud, it should be okay for Cloud to eventually commit to Tifa, whom he’d loved since childhood anyways.
No matter how explicit Cloud and Aerith’s romance is made to be, they do not end up together. No matter how much one might want Aerith to be Cloud’s endgame, she dies. And no matter how much one might want Cloud and Aerith to be exclusive, he and Tifa confirm their feelings for one another to one another in the Lifestream.
That’s just…how the story goes (again, assuming the remake keeps consistent to the OG on this subject.) So I don’t see the point in trying to appease everybody’s ships if it comes at the expense of good character development (nor do I think that’s what’s happening here).
Both ships will get their time to shine, but realistically, I think there’s only so much SE can do to keep an even playing field between both ships when one of them includes a character who dies halfway through the story.
Basically, I don’t want SE to skimp on Cloud and Tifa’s relationship just because they don’t want to let them get too ahead of Cloud and Aerith. If it’s okay for Aerith to move on from Zack to Cloud, it should be okay for Cloud to eventually commit to Tifa, whom he’d loved since childhood anyways.
Maidenofwar
They/Them
Sure, but it still means Cloud and Aerith were canon, ZA, CA, CT all canon in SE's way of putting it.
But there a lot of arbitrary things in video games that don't lend to the main narrative. Why go all out of your way to do top secrets and hard mode, when the full narrative can be done in 20 hours? Because fans can, and want to grind for it. I see this whole "pandering" as rewarding the most fanatical of fans.
Love the idea of Aerith and Cloud together? Go spend 15 hours side questing, here's your reward - a gratuitous Clerith scene. You win for your efforts. Prefer Tifa? Get an equally gratituous scene because you ground for it. It's all canon - as long as you work for it.
Stick to the vanilla main story? Cloud is very devastated that Aerith died, but confesses his feelings to Tifa and they live together, at the end of it all, he eventually makes efforts to show her that they are a Real family. This probably won't ever change.
My only beef like i said in the above post is that only Cloud/Player preference is taken into consideration with none of the other participants of the love triangle / square / pentagon reacting to those choices like a "true" player's choice game.
10/10 would support an ending that if Cloud expresses his love for Aerith, Tifa yeets out of the triangle and leaves his sorry ass to Geostigma by himself and you get a Nier-Automata like ending H where he just drops dead in the flower bed at church and the credits abruptly roll.
Love the idea of Aerith and Cloud together? Go spend 15 hours side questing, here's your reward - a gratuitous Clerith scene. You win for your efforts. Prefer Tifa? Get an equally gratituous scene because you ground for it. It's all canon - as long as you work for it.
Stick to the vanilla main story? Cloud is very devastated that Aerith died, but confesses his feelings to Tifa and they live together, at the end of it all, he eventually makes efforts to show her that they are a Real family. This probably won't ever change.
My only beef like i said in the above post is that only Cloud/Player preference is taken into consideration with none of the other participants of the love triangle / square / pentagon reacting to those choices like a "true" player's choice game.
10/10 would support an ending that if Cloud expresses his love for Aerith, Tifa yeets out of the triangle and leaves his sorry ass to Geostigma by himself and you get a Nier-Automata like ending H where he just drops dead in the flower bed at church and the credits abruptly roll.
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Maidenofwar
They/Them
Why would Tifa act like that when she and Cloud aren't a couple for most of FFVII. Why would Zack act like that when it's been years and ZA didn't even consummate in the first place (Aerith can rightfully tell him where to go if he does BS like call her a whore or anything like that) I don't understand the scorn for Cloud and Aerith. I mean I guess I'm just a weird that doesn't mind Cloud finding some comfort with Tifa later on when the world is literally ending though despite having something with Aerith before.
KindOfBlue
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Blue
Cloud and Aerith canonically had a romantic interest in each other, but the point is that their relationship is cut short before it could go anywhere beyond that.
To just say they’re “all canon” and leave it there sometimes draws an equivalence between all the ships that simply isn’t there. Do Cloud and Aerith get a moment in which they mutually affirm their feelings to one another? No, she dies before their relationship can get there. That’s the point.
Similarly, does Zack get to live happily ever after with Aerith? No. He dies before he gets to reunite with her. That’s the point. The tragedies of those losses are amplified by the audience’s desire for a happy ending, but ultimately, it’s not meant to be.
There comes a point where the narrative simply cannot accommodate every player’s interests. Imagine playing the OG and saying, “but I want Aerith to live so that her and Cloud can end up together”. Well, that’s just not an option. That’s what happens when the element of death is added to a love triangle. Shippers of the deceased feel compelled to disregard any development between the living because their own chance has been taken away.
Of course, that’s not to say death makes relationships less meaningful. Far from it. But the fact remains that Cloud and Aerith’s relationship did not get the opportunity to advance. Whether they could have been official, whether their date is the canon date, whether she’s completely over Zack, none of that changes the story. If it were Tifa in Aerith’s position, I’d feel the same way.
So I don’t want SE to say “well, since Cloud and Aerith can only go this far, let’s not let Cloud and Tifa’s relationship progress too much either” just to try to appease both sides. The most reasonable shippers can just find solace in enjoying Cloud and Aerith for the brief time they have together, but for the worst of shippers, that will never be enough.
To just say they’re “all canon” and leave it there sometimes draws an equivalence between all the ships that simply isn’t there. Do Cloud and Aerith get a moment in which they mutually affirm their feelings to one another? No, she dies before their relationship can get there. That’s the point.
Similarly, does Zack get to live happily ever after with Aerith? No. He dies before he gets to reunite with her. That’s the point. The tragedies of those losses are amplified by the audience’s desire for a happy ending, but ultimately, it’s not meant to be.
There comes a point where the narrative simply cannot accommodate every player’s interests. Imagine playing the OG and saying, “but I want Aerith to live so that her and Cloud can end up together”. Well, that’s just not an option. That’s what happens when the element of death is added to a love triangle. Shippers of the deceased feel compelled to disregard any development between the living because their own chance has been taken away.
Of course, that’s not to say death makes relationships less meaningful. Far from it. But the fact remains that Cloud and Aerith’s relationship did not get the opportunity to advance. Whether they could have been official, whether their date is the canon date, whether she’s completely over Zack, none of that changes the story. If it were Tifa in Aerith’s position, I’d feel the same way.
So I don’t want SE to say “well, since Cloud and Aerith can only go this far, let’s not let Cloud and Tifa’s relationship progress too much either” just to try to appease both sides. The most reasonable shippers can just find solace in enjoying Cloud and Aerith for the brief time they have together, but for the worst of shippers, that will never be enough.
I'm not saying Zack will, I'm just saying it would be funny to have negative consequences for players choice.MaidenofWar said:
And even if Zack and Aerith didn't uh, consummate in the first place - I honestly wonder how the Cloud/Aerith romance will play out. SE's character bio already says Zack is "hoping to see his love, Aerith" and you'll be having Aerith making googly eyes and kissy faces at Cloud, while Zack searches the world for her? You might argue that it's been years since they were in a relationship, but this will all be playing out simultaneously in real-time to the player. Awkward.
The other thing is the play - the whole crew is there so....Aerith/Rosa is on stage, with Barret, Cait and Nanaki as cast members, and Tifa's just...sitting in the audience watching Cloud kiss Aerith's hand? Awkward
Then once the whole Gold Saucer date shebang is over, Aerith watches Cloud goes OFF wailing his lungs out about Tifa being eaten by a whale? Awkward
Maidenofwar
They/Them
None of those things are awkward.
Why would Aerith care about that, she'd be helping to save Tifa too
The party is going to be working together to save Tifa and Red XIII I assume. People have speculated that takes place at Gongaga anyway.
Tifa will have to watch Cloud go off about Aerith dying, assuming if she still does, but again she's going to care about what happened, not be salty about it.
I mean yeah, Maiden exists and they are clearly drawing from it. Aerith and Zack have some baggage to work through and that includes Aerith cheerleading for Cloud while Zack talks about how she's really something and to call him if she gets lonely.
Zack might be searching for his love Aerith, but she broke it off with him. Yeah, he might be trying to set the record straight as in no he didn't leave her and chose her in the end, but a lot happened since then. He can't just pick up like that.
Why would Aerith care about that, she'd be helping to save Tifa too
The party is going to be working together to save Tifa and Red XIII I assume. People have speculated that takes place at Gongaga anyway. Tifa will have to watch Cloud go off about Aerith dying, assuming if she still does, but again she's going to care about what happened, not be salty about it.
I mean yeah, Maiden exists and they are clearly drawing from it. Aerith and Zack have some baggage to work through and that includes Aerith cheerleading for Cloud while Zack talks about how she's really something and to call him if she gets lonely.
Zack might be searching for his love Aerith, but she broke it off with him. Yeah, he might be trying to set the record straight as in no he didn't leave her and chose her in the end, but a lot happened since then. He can't just pick up like that.
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Was replaying Remake yesterday and today in preparation of Rebirth, and man, that really highlighted to me how messed up it would be to make Aerith and Cloud romantic. Would instantly drop her to the bottom of my rankings when it comes to party members in final fantasy.
This girl would meet Cloud, realize Tifa is special to him, insert herself into a mission to go save her, meet Tifa, pretend to be her friend, confirm her suspicions about Cloud and Tifa when she sees that he gave her the flower. And then stab her friend in the back by trying to get between them, knowing that she has been using him as a stand in for her ex, the ex btw, who we actively see trying to get back to her, AND while having future memories that hint at Cloud and Tifa being destined for each other. Essentially going back in time to try and have sex with her best friends boyfriend by abusing his memory issues......
Just, even setting aside the fact that I would start disliking her more because of how much this would absolutely demolish what would otherwise be an amazing story and turn it into a poorly written, unbelievable self-insert mess, but Aerith would literally be a worse traitor than Caith Sith was.
Ps: I'm fine with her having developed some feelings for him that she refuses to act on. But if she does try to make a move, even if she dies and it all ends up as usual, with Cloud and Tifa professing their feelings for each other, just the mere fact of Aerith even trying it would kill her character for me. Especially if the game tries to somehow equate her feelings for Cloud as equal to those she felt for Zack, or those between Cloud and Tifa, despite the absurd time frame.
This girl would meet Cloud, realize Tifa is special to him, insert herself into a mission to go save her, meet Tifa, pretend to be her friend, confirm her suspicions about Cloud and Tifa when she sees that he gave her the flower. And then stab her friend in the back by trying to get between them, knowing that she has been using him as a stand in for her ex, the ex btw, who we actively see trying to get back to her, AND while having future memories that hint at Cloud and Tifa being destined for each other. Essentially going back in time to try and have sex with her best friends boyfriend by abusing his memory issues......
Just, even setting aside the fact that I would start disliking her more because of how much this would absolutely demolish what would otherwise be an amazing story and turn it into a poorly written, unbelievable self-insert mess, but Aerith would literally be a worse traitor than Caith Sith was.
Ps: I'm fine with her having developed some feelings for him that she refuses to act on. But if she does try to make a move, even if she dies and it all ends up as usual, with Cloud and Tifa professing their feelings for each other, just the mere fact of Aerith even trying it would kill her character for me. Especially if the game tries to somehow equate her feelings for Cloud as equal to those she felt for Zack, or those between Cloud and Tifa, despite the absurd time frame.
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Only if you take it WAAYYYY too literal. He's not a literal baby, he's more on the cusp of adulthood, and only metaphorically, that is where loss of motherhood is usually explored, not with literal children. The entire point of the growing up bit is the "becoming a grown up". It's more like how Wedge said when learning that Cloud doesn't like children "you have so much in common".
Where are you getting that she has future memories that hint at Cloud and Tifa being destined for each other? I don't recall that in Remake and wouldn't say go far as to say Aerith is trying to have sex with Cloud (SquareEnix being so PG13) but I do understand that feeling of, damn Aerith. You sure ain't no girl's girl. It's giving Ariana Grande / Ethan Slater / Lilly Jay vibesStiggie said:
He...died? He didn't leave her purposely? He literally got shot to death?MaidenofWar said:
But like I said, Square Enix will reward Aerith fans who do every tepid flower picking quest, every fetch item, every fight of a color swapped enemy to see her almost kiss Cloud, so
Maidenofwar
They/Them
Look I don't care how extremists anybody is. You are not the developers of the game, they didn't make it to cater to you individually and they care nothing for your interpretations.
@frosty Yeah but Aerith didn't know that. She broke it off in the letters BEFORE that, and she didn't get a proper explanation. What I meant before is they need time to work through that, they aren't just going to start off where they left off I don't think.
You're letting your biases show by denigrating what they have created for Aerith and Cloud, you'll never see me do that to Tifa here nor demean her side quests.
I'll just drop this here (meant to do it earlier but forgot)
Anyone who thinks they're getting to the location of the death scene and the death scene/aftermath itself (if it's there) without Cloud being tender or Cloud and Aerith forming might be going to have a hell of a hard/disappointing time if they can't be objective. They're building upon the character bonds from remake, this includes Cloud and Aerith getting closer and closer until the big event (s) Even if you treat her like dirt and stomp her between your feets character convo and questing wise that's probably not going to change. I'd personally be picking all the good answers for all characters, treating everyone nice and seeing what happens and what date I get which version etc but I expect characters will have non optional moments regardless.
@frosty Yeah but Aerith didn't know that. She broke it off in the letters BEFORE that, and she didn't get a proper explanation. What I meant before is they need time to work through that, they aren't just going to start off where they left off I don't think.
You're letting your biases show by denigrating what they have created for Aerith and Cloud, you'll never see me do that to Tifa here nor demean her side quests.
I'll just drop this here (meant to do it earlier but forgot)
Anyone who thinks they're getting to the location of the death scene and the death scene/aftermath itself (if it's there) without Cloud being tender or Cloud and Aerith forming might be going to have a hell of a hard/disappointing time if they can't be objective. They're building upon the character bonds from remake, this includes Cloud and Aerith getting closer and closer until the big event (s) Even if you treat her like dirt and stomp her between your feets character convo and questing wise that's probably not going to change. I'd personally be picking all the good answers for all characters, treating everyone nice and seeing what happens and what date I get which version etc but I expect characters will have non optional moments regardless.
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null
Mr. Thou
- AKA
- null
Yeah we all had that mindset once. “If only we could reason with them… if only they could be kind to each other…” omae wa mou shindeiru. That’s how the LTD gets you. Like The Raft by Stephen King. It’s over as soon as you get in the water and now we’re all gonna die in the middle of that lake.
Turn back… save yourselves… the English speaking fandom needs you. I don’t wanna go back to the AC cast.
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idk man, I still miss Zack
Not a specific scene, just the overall nature of her knowing the future and constantly saying vaguely meaningful lines to Tifa, like telling her that Aerith will look after Marlene and Tifa should follow her heart, which make Tifa go "wtf?".
If Aerith has any knowledge about the future, sephiroth, and "it not being real", then clearly she has some awareness about her dying, the feelings between Cloud and Tifa, and the events post her death. Which include Tifa and Clouds lifestream revelations, the highwind, and the two years prior to AC.
And that future is literally called "destiny", so yeah, she pretty clearly knows Tifa and Cloud were destined to end up together.
I see this a lot, you are conflating the video game with real life. Irl it is of course completely understandable that you'd start dating someone else after 4 years of not hearing about an other person, doesn't make you immoral or anything. But this is a story, one that chooses to show us certain things to get us in certain mindsets, hint at future developments, etc.
Playing a game about Zack trying to get back to Aerith, and then continuing that story in FFVII remake, and then ending that not by paying of that set-up by having a tearful reunion, but by instead having Aerith reject/replace Zack with Cloud, aka, the guy that slowed Zack down in getting back, and even sacrifices his life for in some timelines, is not exactly a satisfying resolution.
Sure, might be completely understandable irl, but from a storytelling perspective that's not exactly the most rewarding story, it's not fun to watch, it feels pointless, and it doesn't ingratiate the character, realistic as it may be. In stories we might want certain characters to be "better" than realistic. Add to that that Cloud was in some way pretending to be Zack and it becomes weird AF as well.
Here is the thing, if you WANTED to tell that story, you could. But you know what you then don't do? Place any focus on Zack. As long as Zack is the invisible EX it doesn't matter, the audience is willing to blissfully ignore the elephant in the corner as long as they never see it. But the story did put focus on Zack, and it puts a spotlight on Zacks importance and the awkward implications that come with it. When Aerith starts off her interactions with Cloud by trying to recreate her time with Zack, when she asks questions about him and has to take deep breaths before speaking his name, then you as a storyteller are infusing the story with the idea that Zack matters. That what is happening here is about Aerith and Zack, maybe even more so than it's about Cloud and Aerith. What you, as a storyteller are now saying is "here is the story about how Aerith managed to come to terms with Zacks death" rather than saying "here is the story of how Aerith and Cloud fell in love". And that primes the audience, it essentially sets up a goal for the story that we can get invested in achieving. And that doesn't just go away, when that storybeat has been introduced into the story it needs pay-off, this is classic checkovs gun.
If you then end the remake with Aerith talking about hating the sky that took Zack away, echoing Zacks last words about how the sky frightened Aerith, while also having a triumphant shot of Zack surviving and trying to get back to her, you are HEAPING more importance on Zack and reinforcing the idea that Aeriths inner struggles here are about Zack.
When you then have a date (in the OG) where Aerith talks about how she'd been seeing Zack in Cloud you AGAIN reinforce, or hell, even explicitly state, that this journey you've been on hasn't been about falling in love with Cloud, dude hasn't even been himself yet, but about getting to grips with the past. Something which mirrors Clouds internal arc, who needs to come to terms with his failures concerning Tifa.
Now there are two things to consider here, the same event can be seen from two perspectives or framings that determine what story is really being told. 1 is getting over Zack, 2 is falling in love with Cloud, these are potentially the same events, but are vastly different when they come to thematic and narratological implications.
The question is which one of the two is the point? Where is the focus? Like I said before, you totally COULD tell a story with this general premise, about two people coming together and coming to terms with their pasts by falling in love with each other. But the problem with all of this is that this is not a rom-com where you have two people who can just be themselves with each other and having the focus of the events be how much being with each other makes them forget about the other person. Tifa is RIGHT THERE, and the entire point is that Cloud can't be himself, Tifa and Cloud is not something that can be "gotten over", she's a main character, the nibelheim incident is a major focus of the story, the focus will always be "coming to terms with the past" because nibleheim and clouds fake identity is too big to sweep under the rug and too connected with Tifa. And as I laid out above, Zack has also become a much too big of a factor to ignore.
And you have to remember that it's not us that is saying it's weird for Aerith to replace Zack with Cloud so quickly. It's the developers that are saying this. THEY are the ones that decided to have Aerith write letters for FOUR YEARS despite not getting them answered. It's the developers that chose to focus on how much Aerith is still not over Zack. Who inject Aerith talking about the sky into remake, who make audio expositions about Aerith talking about how she sometimes sees someone with Zacks eyes and wants to ask about him, that talk about how her feelings are unchanging and that no matter what she does she can't stop thinking about him.
They're the ones who keep making decision like making it so that Aerith was trying to relive her first date with Zack through Cloud, strengthening the idea that these scenes are about Zack, not Cloud. Hell, they're the ones that make entire games about Zack and Aeriths relationship.
It's because THE DEVELOPERS made these choices we're at a point where, from a storytelling perspective, Aerith getting together with Cloud is extremely uncomfortable and weird, and no amount of "but in real life that could totally happen" can change that.
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Rose Alive
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Always hungry
Hello! Long time lurker here. I've been debating on whether to join or not but decided to go ahead. I don't ever post on any sort of social media, so I'm a little nervous and I'm sorry if I do this wrong.
But I've been reading these forums for years and I feel like the Lifestream respects the story the most and the people here seem level headed.
Some background for me is ff7 has been such a huge part of my life and I love it so much. As a child, I didn't really understand the story, so I rooted for Cloud and Aerith. For some reason the lifestream scene just didn't sink in. As I got older I finally understood the characters and really saw the beautiful story between Cloud and Tifa.
But now that I'm even older, I think I've become a bit jaded. It started after Rebirth and I think I lurked on reddit too much. I'm an author, and for obvious reasons I'm not going to disclose my pen name, but it's so frustrating when people don't see what's right in front of them. The dynamics connecting Zack to Cloud, Zack to Aerith, Cloud to Aerith, Cloud to Tifa . . . And then people are like "It's all up to interpretation". I think it was obvious Aerith began to develop feelings for Cloud once she realized that she shouldn't keep looking for Zack in him, but then she died. And I think Cloud, as confused as he was, loved her but wasn't IN love with her. And then the lifestream scene happened, and I imagine for him, was like seeing a sunrise for the first time. Tifa. There she was all along, what began his journey in the first place.
The park scene in remake was probably the saddest for me. Aerith building up her courage before they got there, asking if Cloud had any war buddies, and then looking into Cloud's eyes, but remembering Zack's. It reflected the scene in Aerith's house where Cloud thought about his mother, and how she was talking about what kind of girl would be good for him. Some would conclude ok it must be Aerith because this is happening at her house, but then as Cloud opens his eyes, you see the starry sky in them, reflecting the promise scene with Tifa, and the music from that scene is playing. It's gorgeous story telling. But now so many people want Aerith to live just so she and Cloud can get married and have thirty-three babies.
My spouse and I were joking last night that if Tifa ends up with Johnny, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. She'd never have a dull day, that's for sure.
But I've been reading these forums for years and I feel like the Lifestream respects the story the most and the people here seem level headed.
Some background for me is ff7 has been such a huge part of my life and I love it so much. As a child, I didn't really understand the story, so I rooted for Cloud and Aerith. For some reason the lifestream scene just didn't sink in. As I got older I finally understood the characters and really saw the beautiful story between Cloud and Tifa.
But now that I'm even older, I think I've become a bit jaded. It started after Rebirth and I think I lurked on reddit too much. I'm an author, and for obvious reasons I'm not going to disclose my pen name, but it's so frustrating when people don't see what's right in front of them. The dynamics connecting Zack to Cloud, Zack to Aerith, Cloud to Aerith, Cloud to Tifa . . . And then people are like "It's all up to interpretation". I think it was obvious Aerith began to develop feelings for Cloud once she realized that she shouldn't keep looking for Zack in him, but then she died. And I think Cloud, as confused as he was, loved her but wasn't IN love with her. And then the lifestream scene happened, and I imagine for him, was like seeing a sunrise for the first time. Tifa. There she was all along, what began his journey in the first place.
The park scene in remake was probably the saddest for me. Aerith building up her courage before they got there, asking if Cloud had any war buddies, and then looking into Cloud's eyes, but remembering Zack's. It reflected the scene in Aerith's house where Cloud thought about his mother, and how she was talking about what kind of girl would be good for him. Some would conclude ok it must be Aerith because this is happening at her house, but then as Cloud opens his eyes, you see the starry sky in them, reflecting the promise scene with Tifa, and the music from that scene is playing. It's gorgeous story telling. But now so many people want Aerith to live just so she and Cloud can get married and have thirty-three babies.
My spouse and I were joking last night that if Tifa ends up with Johnny, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. She'd never have a dull day, that's for sure.
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Maidenofwar
They/Them
So yeah I'm just going to drop this here-
New Rebirth interview dropped.
This matches up about what some have been saying about the unknown, and Remake/Rebirth putting it's own spin on certain things.
Tabata is gone.
All bets are off.
What happens when you tell a story which incorporates more of the original team that praises how effectively they blend with the new additional staff.
Place new bets now.
New Rebirth interview dropped.
"Why isn't Crisis Core Reunion part of the Final Fantasy 7 Remake canon?" Hamaguchi: Because the remake itself is a unique world distinct from the other titles
This matches up about what some have been saying about the unknown, and Remake/Rebirth putting it's own spin on certain things.
Tabata is gone.
All bets are off.
What happens when you tell a story which incorporates more of the original team that praises how effectively they blend with the new additional staff.
Place new bets now.
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null
Mr. Thou
- AKA
- null
Weeeell yeah but he also said he thinks they're being really faithful in the bigger picture. (And honestly "big picture faithful" is the phrasing they should have used all along.) Which is a shame. I was looking forward to our messiah Hamaguchi building a shining new future on the Compilation's corpse.
But... yeah lol. Distinct continuity from the other titles but still leads into Advent Children. I did the Money Pit laugh.
Edit:
But... yeah lol. Distinct continuity from the other titles but still leads into Advent Children. I did the Money Pit laugh.
Edit:
Maidenofwar
They/Them
Dammit null what do you mean the September links aren't true I was about to unbuckle the seat belt loose the breaks and go full throttle into the unknown and burst through the bottom of that lake 
About Aerith, wasn't there the part where she loses pieces of herself when the whispers are encountered, I think that might mean memories. If so then I think as we head out to the grasslands and Kalm maybe Aerith doesn't remember a whole lot and is heading into the unknown as much as we are. Though I think it's silly in this day and age there has to be caveats such as Cloud has to initiate a kiss with Tifa otherwise people will say she's forcing herself on him or Cloud has to initiate the kiss with Aerith else she's *insert derogatory* term here.
About Aerith, wasn't there the part where she loses pieces of herself when the whispers are encountered, I think that might mean memories. If so then I think as we head out to the grasslands and Kalm maybe Aerith doesn't remember a whole lot and is heading into the unknown as much as we are. Though I think it's silly in this day and age there has to be caveats such as Cloud has to initiate a kiss with Tifa otherwise people will say she's forcing herself on him or Cloud has to initiate the kiss with Aerith else she's *insert derogatory* term here.
Basically this, people think I talk about the "LTD" because I am obsessed with Cloud and Tifa or something, when really I don't care that much. Well, I do, but I care about a lot of things and still never argue about them. There are characters and pairings I like a whole lot more but I am not out there arguing about their validity. There is only one constant in every single thing I argue about. And it's that it's always about something that I feel is just mind bogglingly obvious, and yet is somehow not accepted by people.
The smaller and less important the subject the better even, because the less important it is the more baffling it is that people don't accept it.
And rarely have I seen something that I feel is as obvious and yet as misinterpreted as the story of FFVII. And it's not about an obsession with who gets laid or one of these other attempts people do to minimize my stance and justify ignoring me. It's an obsession with the facts and themes of the story itself, which are impacted by the motivations and feelings of the characters. But then you get called a shipper and accused of being obsessed with romance, when 99% of what I am doing is explaining how this is not romance".
How is it that the people who treat this game as if it were a dating sim can accuse others of having romance on the brain? It baffles me.
I wouldn't read into this too much. Seems like a classic example of a developer saying some half thought out off the cusp remark and people treating as though it's gospel. For one it clashes with what other developers have said before. and for 2, this completely depends on what you mean by canon. Could easily be that he was thinking "well, Zack survived in remake so clearly it's not canon to the remake timeline, even though it is obviously still canon to the og timeline that remake continues on from".
Rose Alive
Pro Adventurer
- AKA
- Always hungry
I will admit, I focus a lot on romance when it's present in a story, but that's the genre I write, so I can't help but be invested in it. I just don't want this to turn into Dragon Age. Then it's not about Cloud anymore, it's about the player and how they feel. How can that line up with the lifestream scene? The night under the Highwind is a pivotal and special moment for Cloud and Tifa. I hope that's not taken away and you have to choose who spends the night with Cloud, like Aerith if she lives or her spirit if she dies. Although I will admit, an awkward night with Vincent would be hilarious.