SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Ryushikaze

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
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Tim, Ryu
LNK said:
Oh, I have that. I thought you were talking about an ff7 novel
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No, you brought up liking 15 and I was curious what you thought of the novel and its expanded/ altered version of the ending.
 
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LNK

LNK

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Nate
Ryushikaze said:
No, you brought up liking 15 and I was curious what you thought of the novel and its expanded/ altered version of the ending.
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Ohhhhh, jeezus lol. I definitely still like 15 even with the books release. They never said it was meant to override the games ending, so I like the idea of it. The games ending is definitely my favorite in the series. I love how even through all the death/loss throughout, Noctis still sacrifices himself cause he believes its the right thing to do. It was very powerful
 
shady

shady

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Ryushikaze said:
The difference is that if Aerith lived and Cloud picked Tifa, there wouldn't be a horde of shippers claiming he only did so because he had no choice. I agree, the outcome is the same IN NARRATIVE, it's outside the narrative I'm discussing.


I've said it many times, the LT is solved, it's the debate that continues despite that.


The FF15 Novel is called Dawn of the Future and includes what was meant to be in the game as various DLCs including a "true ending" where Noct, Luna and Ardyn join forces to fight Bahamut for rigging the game from the start.
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GamerSkull said:
See, I don’t think it would make much difference. I think the LTD would basically be the same had Aerith survived. Possibly worse because people could just head canon that he left Tifa for her post-AC.
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In this game Cloud does a lot of things with Tifa that would heavily suggest he likes/loves her in a romantic sense regardless of Aerith being alive. The narrative of "Tifa is just second choice because Aerith isn't around" is out of the window now.
 
GamerSkull

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shady said:
In this game Cloud does a lot of things with Tifa that would heavily suggest he likes/loves her in a romantic sense regardless of Aerith being alive. The narrative of "Tifa is just second choice because Aerith isn't around" is out of the window now.
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That’s good to hear. However, I just don’t think it matters tbh. The LTD will always rage on.

In this instance, it will now be because Cloud is jealous Aerith is still thinking about Zack or he’s doing it as a second choice because Aerith is emotionally unavailable.
 
Hix

Hix

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shady said:
In this game Cloud does a lot of things with Tifa that would heavily suggest he likes/loves her in a romantic sense regardless of Aerith being alive. The narrative of "Tifa is just second choice because Aerith isn't around" is out of the window now.
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Yeah, though I would argue this was already apparent in Remake (things like Cloud giving the flower to Tifa without option, the train roll, the hug, their constant invasion of each others spaces, intense body language and emotions etc). Further, had Aerith survived in OG, she'd have just stood around while Tifa - and only Tifa - had pieced together Cloud's broken mind (in which it is revealed he always loved her)

GamerSkull said:
That’s good to hear. However, I just don’t think it matters tbh. The LTD will always rage on.

In this instance, it will now be because Cloud is jealous Aerith is still thinking about Zack or he’s doing it as a second choice because Aerith is emotionally unavailable.
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In fact we're already seeing the "Cloud is distant because he's just jealous of Zack" takes, which is a remarkable admission because until now the narrative was that Aerith didn't care about him at all anymore.
 
shady

shady

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GamerSkull said:
That’s good to hear. However, I just don’t think it matters tbh. The LTD will always rage on.

In this instance, it will now be because Cloud is jealous Aerith is still thinking about Zack or he’s doing it as a second choice because Aerith is emotionally unavailable.
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Funny that you've already pointed out what Cloud and Aerith supporters have already started saying across social media now that the...

Gondola Kiss between Cloud and Tifa is out in the open.
Apparently Cloud is a monumental asshole that only kisses Tifa in revenge and jealousy because he thinks Aerith still has feelings for Zack, and how Tifa hopefully finds someone who loves her properly, but that Cloud needs to be with Aerith, she'll understand.
 
GamerSkull

GamerSkull

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shady said:
Funny that you've already pointed out what Cloud and Aerith supporters have already started saying across social media now that the...

Gondola Kiss between Cloud and Tifa is out in the open.
Apparently Cloud is a monumental asshole that only kisses Tifa in revenge and jealousy because he thinks Aerith still has feelings for Zack, and how Tifa hopefully finds someone who loves her properly, but that Cloud needs to be with Aerith, she'll understand.
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Well, I’ve seen these takes so I’ve mentioned them. Thing is… that’s kinda my point. Cope will always exist to some degree. If it turns out it’s not because he’s jealous of Zack, it’ll be something else…

Wasn’t there people saying that them interlocking fingers was more romantic than a kiss? You can’t make this up lol
 
L

loozzer

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I think one reason that the LTD never ends is that cloud/aerith scenes would be construed as quite cute and romantic if you view them on their own. like for example their GS date can be read as cloud being super awkward and distant because he's a super dork who is nervous about going on a date with a girl he likes. their last date together could potentially read as a doomed romance or an us against the world type of thing. he's super concerned about her safety at various points across the games. if tifa didn't exist, i would probably think that they were going for a slow, slow burn with cloud and aerith. it's only when you watch comparable scenes that he has with tifa and learn about his history with her that you realize oh, maybe this guy actually doesn't view aerith romantically.
 
r_monk

r_monk

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RM
GamerSkull said:
That’s good to hear. However, I just don’t think it matters tbh. The LTD will always rage on.

In this instance, it will now be because Cloud is jealous Aerith is still thinking about Zack or he’s doing it as a second choice because Aerith is emotionally unavailable.
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For sure, I don't think anything will stop the LTD from raging on, even if it's only a handful of particularly vocal stragglers by the conclusion of the game.

I've learned that literally nothing will stop shippers from doing their thing. Even if the creators explicitly come out and say "x couple is canon" (in the case of, say, Legend of Korra which was particularly annoying considering the couple in question was queer and therefore unprecedented), that still isn't enough.

That being said, I'm not going to let anyone diminish my enjoyment of how Cloud and Tifa's story plays out, much less the rest of this beautiful, sweepingly epic game. Preserving my peace, however, may require uh, muting and blocking a ton of people.
 
starcape91

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So now people are thinking that
Aerith 2 will end up with Cloud 2 in the Terrierverse somehow even though my boy Zack is there
Poor Zack lol
 
billy22

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GamerSkull said:
See, I don’t think it would make much difference. I think the LTD would basically be the same had Aerith survived. Possibly worse because people could just head canon that he left Tifa for her post-AC.
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If Aerith had not died, and the HA Highwind scene still happened, there would be no debate because it would beg the question why Cloud was plowing one girl instead of the other, when he clearly had two options readily available.

In this case, there was only a debate pre-compilation because one died, and there is very little direct romance in the OG. There was a large sub-section of the fandom that treated the game like a Shakespearean romantic tragedy, that Cloud was in love with Aerith and only her, and that he spent the remainder of his days either pining for her OR died via the meteor and they happily joined together in lifestream goo.

Of course, everything since the compilation started has quashed that notion completely, heavily pushing Cloud/Tifa and Zack/Aerith. Mercifully.

Not gonna lie though, if Aerith had indeed lived in the trilogy, while I would have been extremely upset by the trashing of the OG's themes, the one positive that would have come out of it is we could have had an ending with Cloud/Tifa and Aerith/Zack off and together...oh wait that might still be able to happen. Because now Zack is around. And because we have the Tifa date to reference. A date that was almost meaningless in the OG.
 
starcape91

starcape91

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starcape91
I still think that the Terrierverse could still be lifestream related somehow. And that Coud will disappear from there after his mind is pieced back together.
 
r_monk

r_monk

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RM
billy22 said:
If Aerith had not died, and the HA Highwind scene still happened, there would be no debate because it would beg the question why Cloud was plowing one girl instead of the other, when he clearly had two options readily available.

In this case, there was only a debate pre-compilation because one died, and there is very little direct romance in the OG. There was a large sub-section of the fandom that treated the game like a Shakespearean romantic tragedy, that Cloud was in love with Aerith and only her, and that he spent the remainder of his days either pining for her OR died via the meteor and they happily joined together in lifestream goo.

Of course, everything since the compilation started has quashed that notion completely, heavily pushing Cloud/Tifa and Zack/Aerith. Mercifully.

Not gonna lie though, if Aerith had indeed lived in the trilogy, while I would have been extremely upset by the trashing of the OG's themes, the one positive that would have come out of it is we could have had an ending with Cloud/Tifa and Aerith/Zack off and together...oh wait that might still be able to happen. Because now Zack is around. And because we have the Tifa date to reference. A date that was almost meaningless in the OG.
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It is pretty wild how much they changed the
GS date from OG. Especially considering Aerith's date was, I thought, the most plot-relevant whereas Tifa's was just a standard "I have feelings, but I can't get it out."

I'm so curious about the kinds of conversations they had in the writers' room to arrive at these changes. So far, it seems so thoughtfully pieced together, seeded, developed... And again, am so struck by how brave they are for going so hard on narrative and characterization. Like, damn.
 
GamerSkull

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starcape91 said:
I still think that the Terrierverse could still be lifestream related somehow. And that Coud will disappear from there after his mind is pieced back together.
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I agree. People wonder how alive characters could still exist there if it is the Lifestream but my theory is that it exists outside of time and everything that occurs there is not exactly chronological with the real world. /
 
starcape91

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Because if they’re doing all of this so that Tifa can have Cloud in one world and Aerith can have Cloud in another…that really diminishes the rest of the plot lol
 
L

loozzer

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GamerSkull said:
I agree. People wonder how alive characters could still exist there if it is the Lifestream but my theory is that it exists outside of time and everything that occurs there is not exactly chronological with the real world. /
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in one of philly leaker's write ups he mentions that when the party gets on the boat one passenger is left behind. that passenger turns out to be kyrie. i wonder if that is at all connected to fact that kyrie is in zack's world. kinda weird to show that if it's unrelated.
 
GamerSkull

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starcape91 said:
Because if they’re doing all of this so that Tifa can have Cloud in one world and Aerith can have Cloud in another…that really diminishes the rest of the plot lol
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I’m pretty sure they’re gonna go for Zerith there. Ultimately, it seems pretty unlikely they’d go through the trouble of bringing Zack back, reaffirming that he wants to reunite with Aerith and not following through on that.
 
faefolk

faefolk

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loozzer said:
I think one reason that the LTD never ends is that cloud/aerith scenes would be construed as quite cute and romantic if you view them on their own. like for example their GS date can be read as cloud being super awkward and distant because he's a super dork who is nervous about going on a date with a girl he likes. their last date together could potentially read as a doomed romance or an us against the world type of thing. he's super concerned about her safety at various points across the games. if tifa didn't exist, i would probably think that they were going for a slow, slow burn with cloud and aerith. it's only when you watch comparable scenes that he has with tifa and learn about his history with her that you realize oh, maybe this guy actually doesn't view aerith romantically.
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The trouble is that people with shipping goggles on will never look at it in the full context. They refuse to see the Tifa/Cloud scenes as they are and refuse to see the logic in the narrative. So the wars will never end - even if SE gives us (more) explicit confessions and a Zerith end. People will see what they wanna see.
 
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