SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Maidenofwar]

All I'm going to say is because I appreciate it and the composer and others wanted people to enjoy it, I am showing appreciation and enjoyment for it. I'm going to keep talking about it and what's being said about it and the new comments released about it and the extra events being held sorry.

Alright so after talking in Nibelheim Aerith’s smilie went from yellow to green while Tifa's remained at yellow (I let the game auto pick answers for me and it picked the second best answers for both here), so I guess I'm doing c12 with Aerith?

If anyone's curious on my run (mandatory story only, no side quests done yet) -

*Game picked second best answer for Aerith in Kalm
*Game picked second best answer for Tifa in Under Junon
*I did well enough to raise affection in the parade for both, and got a President's commendation which impressed Tifa and deepened the relationship with her.
*In Costa Del Sol I did chocobo outfit for Cloud and got matching outfits for both girls raising affection for both
*I chose to fight with Tifa and Red
*Got Tifa in Chapter 8
*Game picked best answer for Aerith in Gongaga
*Game picked best answer for everyone in Cosmo Canyon
*Game picked second best answers in Nibelheim
*All synergy skills/abilities used with both

I think I remembered everything. I was a bit biased including talking to Tifa in Cosmo Canyon and both girls in Nibelheim (you can ignore one) but I wanted to be fair as I could possibly be and keep them both on a more or less even keel for as long as possible and this is where my personal journey took me. Just how it worked out on my run though.

 

[Eerie]

That would be the water tower, right? But Cloud doesn't know that Tifa liked him way back then. I dunno if that would be obvious enough for Cloud try to kiss her.

I mean it doesn't matter, Tifa got ahead of herself there; she thought he would confess but he didn't, so she thought her feelings were only one way (even though they weren't). Here, she thinks something might happen in the romantic context, but she feels unsure suddenly, because he talked about Aerith before and didn't talk much, maybe he didn't see that as romantic, maybe he wasn't interested in her romantically? Did she once again get ahead of herself? Which is why he basically confessed and went in for the handhold (trap), hug and kiss.

It wasn't Gongaga I think because both were leaning for that kiss. But someone who hasn't read ToTP might think about Gongaga, that's true.

 

[Rin]

One thing I like about the way the LTD is being portrayed is that Tifa isn't threatened by CA's dynamic. Other than her confused "huh?" in Kalm, Tifa does not care if she sees CA hanging out and going on a date--this is especially true in GS when they bump into her if you got Aerith the first time.

This is in direct contrast to Aerith who does get jealous and a bit petty if she sees Cloud and Tifa spending time alone together at GS. This seems like meta commentary since the fans always assumed Tifa was the jealous one (and in the OG I'd argue she was definitely portrayed to be jealous) but now it's like rain off her back.

I think this is a good change bc when CT is endgame, no one can ever say Tifa was a second choice and that she was jealous of Aerith from the start. It would be the opposite for CA, as Aerith is a bit resentful of CTs friendship (by her own admission).

 

[r_monk]

But someone who hasn't read ToTP might think about Gongaga, that's true.

Which, IMO, means it's Gongaga. I don't think the writers would lean on any player having read ToTP to make that connection. That would just be shoddy writing. TOTP is bonus material; they want to make things clear in the game, given the majority of the players haven't consumed all the extra media (which happily reinforces things for us who have).

The only scene that's even remotely romantic prior to the GS date would be that one. If you revisit the almost kiss, it's pretty clearer that she's making the gesture and leaning in more than he is. Which is why it's beautiful and fitting that he takes the initiative on the date; they're meeting each other in the middle, in a way.

 

[Eerie]

Aerith does say at least twice that she's envious of their bond so yeah. But honestly I don't think she was jealous at the GS - the talk was pretty neutral there from what I remember.

 

[Rin]

Aerith does say at least twice that she's envious of their bond so yeah. But honestly I don't think she was jealous at the GS - the talk was pretty neutral there from what I remember.

She actually says she's jealous, I'm pretty sure but let me go rewatch the scene cause maybe I'm misremembering.

EDIT: Yeah she says, "Not gonna lie, I'm a teensy bit jeaaalousss" in a teasing tone and then makes a joke about how there must be someone out there who wants to hang out with a cool girl like her to make Cloud get protective--which Tifa finds funny and giggles at.

 

[Eerie]

Which, IMO, means it's Gongaga. I don't think the writers would lean on any player having read ToTP to make that connection. That would just be shoddy writing. TOTP is bonus material; they want to make things clear in the game, given the majority of the players haven't consumed all the extra media (which happily reinforces things for us who have).

The only scene that's even remotely romantic prior to the GS date would be that one. If you revisit the almost kiss, it's pretty clearer that she's making the gesture and leaning in more than he is. Which is why it's beautiful and fitting that he takes the initiative on the date; they're meeting each other in the middle, in a way.

Given the number of references ToTP has in this game, I'm not sure about that lol. It's totally SE-style, just like they reference the rest of the Compilation: either you get it, either you don't and they don't really care lol.

@Rin in French I think she only says envious, I know in Kalm she uses envious. I am, however, not sure if Aerith completely understood what is their relationship, since she got "precious memories" taken from her. In Remake, she definitely knew, but in Rebirth, mmh. Sometimes I do wonder if she realises (or maybe refuses to realise).

 

[Rin]

Given the number of references ToTP has in this game, I'm not sure about that lol. It's totally SE-style, just like they reference the rest of the Compilation: either you get it, either you don't and they don't really care lol.

@Rin in French I think she only says envious, I know in Kalm she uses envious. I am, however, not sure if Aerith completely understood what is their relationship, since she got "precious memories" taken from her. In Remake, she definitely knew, but in Rebirth, mmh. Sometimes I do wonder if she realises (or maybe refuses to realise).

Yeah there's about 3x Aerith is jealous/envious of their friendship. Kalm, 1st GS date, and Nibelheim. This isn't a bad thing, nor do I think it reflects negatively on her I just like that Tifa doesn't consider Aerith a threat. And I also like Aerith showing signs of jealousy or envy, because it makes you wonder which one she's jealous of since her feelings are based around her childhood loneliness.

Like in Kalm you can read it as she's jealous of Cloud bc she wants Tifa to be her childhood friend and not his lmao

 

[r_monk]

either you get it, either you don't and they don't really care lol.

I would argue that if they can't get their main points through in the game—which, again, will be the majority of what most people actually experience—then they have failed as writers. "Either you get it or you don't" would be pretty ungenerous of them towards their audience if they really cared about their story and their characters, which they clearly do.

I think some of us maybe live in a bubble of assumed knowledge, when most of the millions who play and love this game don't, in actuality, have the deep b-side cuts. I have a ton of friends who love the original game and the new remake and rebirth games. Literally none of them have consumed the outside material. That's fine. Which is why I like to see stuff like ToTP as annotations that reward the rest of us with a nice little wink wink.

 

[Empyrea]

Like in Kalm you can read it as she's jealous of Cloud bc she wants Tifa to be her childhood friend and not his lmao

Don't give me and the Aerti shipper in me ideas, my guy. It's not good for my health

 

[Empyrea]

I think some of us maybe live in a bubble of assumed knowledge, when most of the millions who play and love this game don't, in actuality, have the deep b-side cuts. I have a ton of friends who love the original game and the new remake and rebirth games. Literally none of them have consumed the outside material. That's fine. Which is why I like to see stuff like ToTP as annotations that reward the rest of us with a nice little wink wink.

raises both hands

I "ship" Cloti with only the og FF7, ACC, and CC as basis (and now Remake and Rebirth). I know the summaries somewhat, but I've never read any of the novellas and I sure as hell never sought out interviews and the like. I also have zero clue what's in any other extra game outside of DoC.

 

[Rin]

Don't give me and the Aerti shipper in me ideas, my guy. It's not good for my health

Hahahaa mood. I also ship Aerti & Zakkura pretty hard! I don't rly go for the polyshipping aspect in FF7 because I don't think Cloud would be into it. Like, someone else kisses Tifa in front of him and he's gonna have a menty b for sure lmao but if Cloud were a less jealous man, I'd OT4 ship them all.

 

[Empyrea]

Hahahaa mood. I also ship Aerti & Zakkura pretty hard! I don't rly go for the polyshipping aspect in FF7 because I don't think Cloud would be into it. Like, someone else kisses Tifa in front of him and he's gonna have a menty b for sure lmao but if Cloud were a less jealous man, I'd OT4 ship them all.

Mood! Remake put me off the idea of an OT3 because Cloud can get really jealous xP Like, really, Cloud? You reacted really strongly over the mention that someone gave Tifa flowers.

Edit to add: I'm not a Zakkura shipper (my sister is big one, though), but they're my BroTP #1 -- #2 being Zack and Tifa xD

 

[null]

This is starting to get really entertaining lol
View attachment 14848

Optional non-kisses > optional kiss

Actually optional non-kisses + non-optional koi_bito tsunagi > optional Seymour kiss + optional non-kiss + non-optional interrupted but tensionless non-kiss

I failed LTD algebra last semester but my TI-84 plus says it checks out (hope the Ultimania has the answers in the back)

 

[Rin]

Edit to add: I'm not a Zakkura shipper (my sister is big one, though), but they're my BroTP #1 -- #2 being Zack and Tifa xD

Aw, Zifa as besties is my fave concept bc they remind me a lot of the Clerith dynamic but flipped (as seen in Cloud's fucked up version of the Nibelheim massacre). Tifa is just aggravated by that boy but she clearly doesn't hate him (I noticed they changed her line about hating SOLDIERs which was interesting, too), which reminds me of Cloud's exasperation toward Aerith but he in no way hates her either.

This is, potentially why, I don't ship Zifa either even though some people do. But I just can't imagine them romantically the same way I can't imagine Clerith lol one-sided flirtatiousness? Sure, maybe but given the fact that Zack is a supremely loyal man to Aerith he's not gonna flirt with Tifa, anyway. Pre-Aerith, he would've and Tifa would've ignored it haha.

 

[Rin]

All I'm going to say is because I appreciate it and the composer and others wanted people to enjoy it, I am showing appreciation and enjoyment for it. I'm going to keep talking about it and what's being said about it and the new comments released about it and the extra events being held sorry.

Alright so after talking in Nibelheim Aerith’s smilie went from yellow to green while Tifa's remained at yellow (I let the game auto pick answers for me and it picked the second best answers for both here), so I guess I'm doing c12 with Aerith?

If anyone's curious on my run (mandatory story only, no side quests done yet) -

*Game picked second best answer for Aerith in Kalm
*Game picked second best answer for Tifa in Under Junon
*I did well enough to raise affection in the parade for both, and got a President's commendation which impressed Tifa and deepened the relationship with her.
*In Costa Del Sol I did chocobo outfit for Cloud and got matching outfits for both girls raising affection for both
*I chose to fight with Tifa and Red
*Got Tifa in Chapter 8
*Game picked best answer for Aerith in Gongaga
*Game picked best answer for everyone in Cosmo Canyon
*Game picked second best answers in Nibelheim
*All synergy skills/abilities used with both

I think I remembered everything. I was a bit biased including talking to Tifa in Cosmo Canyon and both girls in Nibelheim (you can ignore one) but I wanted to be fair as I could possibly be and keep them both on a more or less even keel for as long as possible and this is where my personal journey took me. Just how it worked out on my run though.

Interesting! Be sure to update us on which date you get for the big GS date, it seems like they're fairly equal!

 

[GamerSkull]

I would argue that if they can't get their main points through in the game—which, again, will be the majority of what most people actually experience—then they have failed as writers. "Either you get it or you don't" would be pretty ungenerous of them towards their audience if they really cared about their story and their characters, which they clearly do.

I think some of us maybe live in a bubble of assumed knowledge, when most of the millions who play and love this game don't, in actuality, have the deep b-side cuts. I have a ton of friends who love the original game and the new remake and rebirth games. Literally none of them have consumed the outside material. That's fine. Which is why I like to see stuff like ToTP as annotations that reward the rest of us with a nice little wink wink.

I actually disagree. You can reference supplementary material in a story, as long as people that haven’t partaken don’t feel lost as a result.

Meaning their reference to Traces of Two Pasts works because people that have read it understand that reference, but people who haven’t have multiple other events that happen in the story that they can reference.

So it works both ways.

 

[Rin]

I actually disagree. You can reference supplementary material in a story, as long as people that haven’t partaken don’t feel lost as a result.

Meaning their reference to Traces of Two Pasts works because people that have read it understand that reference, but people who haven’t have multiple other events that happen in the story that they can reference.

So it works both ways.

I agree with this. The supplemental material just gives more depth to the scenario, but without it you can still grasp what's happening/being talked about. Cloud's newest story is a great example cause it gets referenced in Rebirth and Cloud tells Barret the story (albeit not factually) and those of us who read it know that Cloud is misremembering but players who haven't read it still get enough exposition to understand why Cloud always asks for $2k.

 

[GamerSkull]

I agree with this. The supplemental material just gives more depth to the scenario, but without it you can still grasp what's happening/being talked about. Cloud's newest story is a great example cause it gets referenced in Rebirth and Cloud tells Barret the story (albeit not factually) and those of us who read it know that Cloud is misremembering but players who haven't read it still get enough exposition to understand why Cloud always asks for $2k.

Yeah, that was neat. Perfect timing for that short story too.

 

[Eerie]

(I noticed they changed her line about hating SOLDIERs which was interesting, too)

No it's an actual SENA fck up on this one, she actually says she hates them all. It was already the case in Remake, it's probably the very same line too.

 

[Rin]

No it's an actual SENA fck up on this one, she actually says she hates them all. It was already the case in Remake, it's probably the very same line too.

Ah, I see. Though, one note: It's not SENA. Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine lol but SENA doesn't handle translations. All localizations are done in-house at the SE HQ in Tokyo.

 

[Eerie]

Only the NA one, though I do wonder if this time they didn't give some of the EN script to the FR (and apparently SP) teams to save money (since it's cheaper to hire EN translator than JP ones).

 

[null]

I actually disagree. You can reference supplementary material in a story, as long as people that haven’t partaken don’t feel lost as a result.

Meaning their reference to Traces of Two Pasts works because people that have read it understand that reference, but people who haven’t have multiple other events that happen in the story that they can reference.

So it works both ways.

It’s also a problem when the audience doesn’t realize how lost they are. Like Advent Children dropping us cold into a story missing its first several chapters. I can’t blame fans for getting the wrong impression when OTWTAS wasn’t even officially translated for a few years, even for those aware that it existed at all.

 

[Rin]

Only the NA one, though I do wonder if this time they didn't give some of the EN script to the FR (and apparently SP) teams to save money (since it's cheaper to hire EN translator than JP ones).

Ya idk their process completely, I just know that Square Enix has an in-house translation team that works out of HQ. The only thing SENA does is get the script into the hands of the VAs, and sometimes they will change the script if the actor points out something problematic. For example, SENA works closely with Barrets VA to relay any potential racial sensitivities in the script back to HQ so that Barret is coming across correctly to NA audiences. But the actual translation itself is done at their head office.

 

[BooSmokeySandy]

I don't know why you keep going back to NPTK. Surely few actually doubt that Aerith has feelings for Cloud?

NPTK can be a good old fashioned love song sung by Aerith exclusively for Cloud and that would still not change a thing (I'd argue it isn't that, if for no other reason than it's lyrics are themselves from Loveless, but say for the sake of argument it is). The crux of the LTD has never been about who loves Cloud, but rather, who does Cloud himself love.

NPTK does nothing to demonstrate that the answer to that question is Aerith and, in fact, an argument could be made that it adds weight to the answer being Tifa. If it is a love song, if it is a confession, then Cloud is thus now aware of Aerith's feelings and that makes the lack of reciprocation a quiet rejection. You may not see it that way, but Aerith certainly does by her disappointment and re-evaluation of her own feelings as a result.

Again, one must note, Cloud is not afraid to be flirty, romantic or passionate as demonstrated with Tifa - but with Aerith, if the romanticised arguments about NPTK and the Sector 5 date are to be believed, he's literally being told again and again "I love you" but shows indifference at best or outright rejection at worst.

If we’re talking about songs that demonstrates how Cloud feels, why does nobody talk about Midgar Blues? I know that song isn’t as popular (read:marketed) as Hollow or NPTK, but it’s definitely about Cloud’s feeling and love for Tifa when he left Midgar. If Cleriths want to talk about how songs are written to be love confessions from each character’s POV, they have to acknowledge the legitimacy of this song too, I mean, it’s clear as day.