SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Pasuwado]

I don't wish lol. Zack falls to the trope a man strong among men but can be weak in his woman's arms. I saw that meme on Twitter but not saving it.

And with Cloud's personality, I also dont think he can console Zack in reverse. Better Kunsel than Cloud, but Zack dont share it to Kunself although Kunsel has offered himself to be someone to talk. Somehow, I dont feel like Zack & Cloud is best friends; more like mentor or big brother.


The game theme song shall match with the ending scene.
If you illustrate the ending like me here, then that song would fit.

I liked the ending you proposed.

I really hope they do a well-made epilogue.

One of the things that bothers me the most about the OG is how the game ends and doesn't show what happens to the characters.

I really want them to advance some time in Part 3 and show how the characters are living, preferably with the Advent Children outfits.

I need to see the Seventh Heaven rebuilt.

 

[Hix]

I found one from 2022. Interestingly, the post did not have Zidane and Garnet, but had Beatrix and Steiner?

6 unforgettable Square Enix love stories | Square Enix Blog

Love is in the air here at Square Enix - or more accurately, love is in the games! Here are some of the most memorable romances, from FINAL FANTASY, Life is Strange and more!

www.square-enix-games.com

So does that mean Zidane and Garnet were never together?

Actually, the social media intern who did that blog did a similar one in 2019 and had Zack/Aerith listed, but ended up getting serious harassment on Twitter from Cleriths which no doubt led to Final Fantasy VII being left out entirely on the most recent one you linked.

Somewhat tangentially, it's obvious Cloud/Tifa is canon and this fact should not need to be shouted from the rafters, because it's been shown time and again even louder.

The latest CA line, as an example, is that the kiss in Rebirth isn't real because Cloud wouldn't do that, is a shy fella and needs to be dragged around into things. This is how he's shown with Aerith - literal dragging in her case - and CA fans are simply unable to get their collective head around the fact that Cloud isn't a self-insert and relates to people differently. While he may need forced into things by Aerith, he has no problems being forward and flirty when it comes to Tifa. One doesn't even need to know Nojima said Cloud would "just go for it" with Tifa to know that he would, he's been shown to.

Similarly, we don't need announcements, blog posts or unambiguous statements - that ultimately are avoided because of the backlash, as mentioned above - to know that Cloud loves Tifa and ends up with Tifa. It's the story and that should be enough.

No, they never got married. If they did, it was not in game

Technically they did get married, no? In Conde Petie.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Do I come across passive aggressive and twitterish? I've literally never used Twitter in my entire existence, but I know that's not something I want to be. I was just asking if I was seeing someone, not for the first time, using Cloud's lack of romance during AC/C in an argument. You know, that time when he was suffering crippling guilt from "letting" Zack and Aerith die, guilt and helpless grief because he failed to find a way to cure his son's terminal illness, and then up and contracted the same terminal illness. I wasn't exaggerating when I said "waiting to die" in that earlier post, until the climax of the movie Geostigma was a death sentence.

Put all that together, you get the sort of depression that convinced you everyone is better off without you around, that there's no sense in making them watch you suffer and then die. The fact that one talk from Tifa got him up and moving to the Forgotten Capital is another showing of "Tifa is Cloud's reason to be strong." Marlene dragged him over the finish line, but Tifa got him to get on the chocobo and start the damn race.

It is a shame we only get to see Cloud and Tifa during a crisis of some kind, when the world's maybe ending or someone is mentally broken. Usually both, honestly. I'd love more moments like CoT (wherein a couple goes downhill for very understandable reasons) and TKAA (wherein we see that they got through it). Moments where the world's not at risk and everyone is healthy.

 

[Graymouse]

Also this forum was kind of dead and turning into an echo chamber and at times I tried to get some opinions and thoughts on this matter from you guys to see other peoples perspective and Im glad I did

I think the very fact that this thread has become an echo chamber is because:

1: The LTD is dead. The LTD is double dead after Rebirth.

2. Everyone is slowly coming to a realization that the LTD is dead.

3. The only people who refuse to acknowledge that the LTD is dead are the extreme C/A

4. The LTD is dead since OG, since the LS scene where C/T (confirm their mutual feelings) and especially since the HW scene.

5.The LTD is dead. C/A never confirms their mutual feelings.

6.The LTD is dead.

 

[thetriplerhyme]

There probably won’t be a sex scene. I expect a kiss, fade to black and MAYBE them lying under sheets or just seeing them put the last of their clothes back on.

hate to expect things right now but my take on it like the GS date ( if they're gonna do the same affection rates ) - i'm still hoping it gonna be remove there shouldn't be a high / low affection rates by HW scene.. Cloud's not being controlled now. IT WAS HIS DECISION NOW.

GS date cloti - standard intimacy ( hug ) high intimacy ( hug + kiss ) -
HW ( maybe - standard intimacy ( kiss ) high intimacy ( kiss + seeing them almost lying down before faded black )

so technically its the same thing

and well probably see a cutscene ( let your imagination takes it)

 

[thetriplerhyme]

Maybe it can work in reverse. Tifa needs to get high Cloud affinity lol.

HMMMM - LIKE CLOUD HAS WOO HER?? AAAAAAAHH sorry my imagination is taking me what do you mean? did i got the point right? hehehehe

 

[Empyrea]

Finally caught up! That was quite the back and forth there. Anyway, welcome to the new peeps!

Re: The thread being an echo chamber... It might be just me, but I don't think so? The only thing we all agree on is that CT is canon because the story has said as much. Not of all us agree on whether or not Cloud had feelings for Aerith, for one, far as I could tell. All the same, just because the differences are small doesn't mean there aren't any.

I liked the ending you proposed.

I really hope they do a well-made epilogue.

One of the things that bothers me the most about the OG is how the game ends and doesn't show what happens to the characters.

I really want them to advance some time in Part 3 and show how the characters are living, preferably with the Advent Children outfits.

I need to see the Seventh Heaven rebuilt.

I like this, too! They've brought up rebuilding Seventh Heaven a handful of times and I would love to see them end there!

 

[Empyrea]

HMMMM - LIKE CLOUD HAS WOO HER?? AAAAAAAHH sorry my imagination is taking me what do you mean? did i got the point right? hehehehe

Cloud is so super awkward that I can't imagine that working for him if it's anyone but Tifa

 

[c.lupara]

I think the very fact that this thread has become an echo chamber is because:

1: The LTD is dead. The LTD is double dead after Rebirth.

2. Everyone is slowly coming to a realization that the LTD is dead.

3. The only people who refuse to acknowledge that the LTD is dead are the extreme C/A

4. The LTD is dead since OG, since the LS scene where C/T (confirm their mutual feelings) and especially since the HW scene.

5.The LTD is dead. C/A never confirms their mutual feelings.

6.The LTD is dead.

You miss One point:

7th.) LTD Is Dead.

 

[Ryeleigh]

Honestly, I don't know how this LTD still exists, especially since we already know the end of the story.

The LTD most likely won't ever fully die since some people can't accept that the story wasn't for them and live in full denial instead of just enjoying their fanon. For example, Supernatural still has an "LTD", Gossip Girl still has an "LTD", ATLA still has an "LTD" (in which people still keep regurgitating that Aang is a r*pist, Katara was his mum or trophy wife, Kataang was never romantic or forced etc), Buffy the Vampire Slayer still has an "LTD", and so on.

If by "LTD" we mean that people are still out there repeating points that are completely contradictory to canon and have been proven incorrect time and again.

Do people forget they're playing a Final Fantasy? The developers want their main characters to have a happy ending after all the trials they face.

When I first started playing FF7 OG, I thought Cloud/Aerith was canon because I'd read it online and I didn't really have a reason to doubt it. I also knew that Cloud was still alive at the end of the game. Then I got to the point where Aerith died and I immediately realised, ah, it was a total lie. I didn't even need to see Cloud/Tifa. I knew from prior experience that the Japanese rarely write stories where the main character ends his story pining for his dead lover. They usually reserve the pining for the losing rival. (Luckily I haven't seen that much anymore either.)

 

[shady]

My bets are on a song for the Lifestream moment, don’t know if it will be specifically from anyone’s POV, if it will be a love song, if it will be a song akin to Suteki Da Ne for a kiss, all I know is it’s considered the narrative apex of FF7 by many and it’s the favourite sequence of many of the developers including Nomura I believe.

I reckon they will feel it too good an opportunity to pass up.

 

[Deleted member 26496]

I actually read somewhere that Nojima wanted the movie about the Cloud, Tifa, Marlene and Denzels daily life domestic life and it was gonna be very short but then he was told that wouldn't sell and that he needed to introduce more action.

 

[shady]

Top pic - You can check the stalls as Zack in Chapter 8 apparently
Bottom pic - S5 dream date later on

Now it could just be nothing but a bit weird that Zack related items just suddenly appear in Aerith's dream date isn't it?

 

[c.lupara]

View attachment 15146View attachment 15147

Top pic - You can check the stalls as Zack in Chapter 8 apparently
Bottom pic - S5 dream date later on

Now it could just be nothing but a bit weird that Zack related items just suddenly appear in Aerith's dream date isn't it?

Not so strange if you see the dream as a reflection of what Aerith and Zack have experienced;
she would like to have it again.

 

[Sacky]

My bets are on a song for the Lifestream moment, don’t know if it will be specifically from anyone’s POV, if it will be a love song, if it will be a song akin to Suteki Da Ne for a kiss, all I know is it’s considered the narrative apex of FF7 by many and it’s the favourite sequence of many of the developers including Nomura I believe.

I reckon they will feel it too good an opportunity to pass up.

or if they go maiden logic, we can have a song from the lifestream perspective /s

nah im expecting a stamp song at this point XD

 

[GamerSkull]

HMMMM - LIKE CLOUD HAS WOO HER?? AAAAAAAHH sorry my imagination is taking me what do you mean? did i got the point right? hehehehe

I meant, that as Tifa, we have to raise Cloud’s affinity.

 

[Rose Alive]

The LTD is dead. The LTD is double dead after Rebirth.

Imagine presenting these scenarios to one hundred strangers with no knowledge of FFVII regarding the Skywheel:

Man goes on a date with a woman he has known for less than a month. She invites him to sit next to her. He doesn't and sits across from her. Later on, she falls into him and he catches her. They both have the opportunity to kiss one another, but they both back away. They sit next to one another now. The woman then proceeds to tell him that he reminds her of her dead boyfriend, and that she saw the dead boyfriend in him, but she's trying to get past that and see him for who he really is. She then scoots close to him, grabs onto him, and lays her head on his shoulder. He says her name in a questioning tone. She says just until the ride is over. He gives her this, removing her hand from his arm and holds her hand with his, intertwining their fingers.

Same man goes on a date with another woman, one he has known his whole life. He joined the military to impress her as a young teenager. They have already almost kissed once but were interrupted prior to this date. When fireworks go off, she looks at them. But he looks at her. When she catches this, he is clearly embarrassed. She mentions she can't remember a time when they were this close, but then she hesitates, wondering if she's getting ahead of herself again regarding their relationship. She closes in on herself, but he holds out his hand to her and says not one bit. He then gives her a small, encouraging nod. She places her hand in his. He immediately pulls her to him and holds her. He then places his hands on her shoulders, leans in, and kisses her.

Now, who is this man more interested in? Who would he choose?

Even with this small piece of the story, it's obvious what an overwhelming majority would conclude.

 

[Eerie]

I meant, that as Tifa, we have to raise Cloud’s affinity.

Nah real Cloud is already a total simp for her, I don't know if we could make him simp MORE LOL.

 

[c.lupara]

I have to be honest;
What worries me, scares me and makes my skin crawl is seeing Aerith's death romanticized...

I mean really? How deeply perverted can a human being be and find that whole scene romantic?

It's extremely disturbing just to think that it could be (and fortunately it isn't... at least I pray for it).

 

[Ryushikaze]

The LTD most likely won't ever fully die since some people can't accept that the story wasn't for them and live in full denial instead of just enjoying their fanon. For example, Supernatural still has an "LTD", Gossip Girl still has an "LTD", ATLA still has an "LTD" (in which people still keep regurgitating that Aang is a r*pist, Katara was his mum or trophy wife, Kataang was never romantic or forced etc), Buffy the Vampire Slayer still has an "LTD", and so on.

At least in Buffy's case the argument is between two men she definitively liked and slept with and the actual resolutiion to it is at the end of years and years worth of extra comics.

When I first started playing FF7 OG, I thought Cloud/Aerith was canon because I'd read it online and I didn't really have a reason to doubt it. I also knew that Cloud was still alive at the end of the game. Then I got to the point where Aerith died and I immediately realised, ah, it was a total lie. I didn't even need to see Cloud/Tifa. I knew from prior experience that the Japanese rarely write stories where the main character ends his story pining for his dead lover. They usually reserve the pining for the losing rival. (Luckily I haven't seen that much anymore either.)

So it's not the same by any means, but there's one example I can think of off hand where the main character pines for his missing lover for an excruciatingly long time, and that's Jetman where main dude Ryu spends a long time not getting over his lost lover Rie, but A: They were a couple planning on being married at the start of the show and his response is to throw himself into his work and ignore romance and B: By the way she's actually alive, just brainwashed and transformed into a villain and most of his obsession is with trying to rescue her and he finally does snap out of his obsession when she finally dies. He then ends the series marrying his other teammate after a 3 year time skip.

I actually read somewhere that Nojima wanted the movie about the Cloud, Tifa, Marlene and Denzels daily life domestic life and it was gonna be very short but then he was told that wouldn't sell and that he needed to introduce more action.

The original version was a very short movie about Tifa sending a message to Cloud through a collection of kids, which included Marlene and who would become Denzel.

View attachment 15146View attachment 15147

Top pic - You can check the stalls as Zack in Chapter 8 apparently
Bottom pic - S5 dream date later on

Now it could just be nothing but a bit weird that Zack related items just suddenly appear in Aerith's dream date isn't it?

Not even remotely. Aerith is pulling in stuff from her memories of her home, and she's trying ro recreate a date with Zack that happened in those places.

Imagine presenting these scenarios to one hundred strangers with no knowledge of FFVII regarding the Skywheel:

Man goes on a date with a woman he has known for less than a month. She invites him to sit next to her. He doesn't and sits across from her. Later on, she falls into him and he catches her. They both have the opportunity to kiss one another, but they both back away. They sit next to one another now. The woman then proceeds to tell him that he reminds her of her dead boyfriend, and that she saw the dead boyfriend in him, but she's trying to get past that and see him for who he really is. She then scoots close to him, grabs onto him, and lays her head on his shoulder. He says her name in a questioning tone. She says just until the ride is over. He gives her this, removing her hand from his arm and holds her hand with his, intertwining their fingers.

Same man goes on a date with another woman, one he has known his whole life. He joined the military to impress her as a young teenager. They have already almost kissed once but were interrupted prior to this date. When fireworks go off, she looks at them. But he looks at her. When she catches this, he is clearly embarrassed. She mentions she can't remember a time when they were this close, but then she hesitates, wondering if she's getting ahead of herself again regarding their relationship. She closes in on herself, but he holds out his hand to her and says not one bit. He then gives her a small, encouraging nod. She places her hand in his. He immediately pulls her to him and holds her. He then places his hands on her shoulders, leans in, and kisses her.

Now, who is this man more interested in? Who would he choose?

Even with this small piece of the story, it's obvious what an overwhelming majority would conclude.

I finally got to the date last night, and Cloud was even more interested than previously indicated. Like, any time there's a lull, Cloud starts staring at Tifa.
But even before that, he takes her hand during NPTK, he encourages Tifa to be on stage after she gushes about being friends with a famous singer, the little awkward "No you go first" leading to the rush into the gondola and the impromptu hug. Bringing up telling Aerith about Zack to fill the silence but also bringing up "still having feelings" as a way to broach the subject of feelings, both of them being very worried about rejection, and then when Cloud finally starts getting it he's the one to reach out his hand, he pulls her in for the hug, he goes in for the kiss, and then afterwards the two of them clearly enjoyed it but they aren't sure what to say.

 

[Graymouse]

I have to be honest;
What worries me, scares me and makes my skin crawl is seeing Aerith's death romanticized...

I mean really? How deeply perverted can a human being be and find that whole scene romantic?

It's extremely disturbing just to think that it could be (and fortunately it isn't... at least I pray for it).

Another disturbing thought is the fact that Cloud would be so selfish to go off and die in a dead women's church so that they can be together in the afterlife.

Pretty much saying screw the family who is alive and worried sick about him, and that a dead girl is more important to Cloud is preposterous.

For the love of all things (materia) Holy! The man just lost a precious person in his life at the end of the battle for the planet. He barely makes it out of the fight. Then his son gets sick, then he gets sick with what they thought was an incurable disease and he completely felt defeated in every which way of the word. He was in a dark dark place.

The man hasn't had time at all to grieve over everything that has happened to him and his friends over the past month. With everything that has happened it takes a lot for someone to process that much grief and pain.

For the extreme C/A to completely and I imagine purposely miss the entire point of ACC is blasphemous and honestly intellectually dishonest.

 

[c.lupara]

Another disturbing thought is the fact that Cloud would be so selfish to go off and die in a dead women's church so that they can be together in the afterlife.

Pretty much saying screw the family who is alive and worried sick about him, and that a dead girl is more important to Cloud is preposterous.

For the love of all things (materia) Holy! The man just lost a precious person in his life at the end of the battle for the planet. He barely makes it out of the fight. Then his son gets sick, then he gets sick with what they thought was an incurable disease and he completely felt defeated in every which way of the word. He was in a dark dark place.

The man hasn't had time at all to grieve over everything that has happened to him and his friends over the past month. With everything that has happened it takes a lot for someone to process that much grief and pain.

For the extreme C/A to completely and I imagine purposely miss the entire point of ACC is blasphemous and honestly intellectually dishonest.

There is one thing to be said about ACC though.

When they developed the film, they could have avoided inserting Aerith in this macabre context of "there's me who's dead (Zack too obviously but I'm excluding him from the equation to highlight the fallacy of those who want CA at all costs) which I'm here for you and I'll help you resolve your existential dramas."

Of course I understand that showing Aerith still pleases the fans, but I say really couldn't they have put her in at least a more pleasant context?


Obviously this is just my point of view and I am no one to judge whether it can be right or not.

 

[Graymouse]

There is one thing to be said about ACC though.

When they developed the film, they could have avoided inserting Aerith in this macabre context of "there's me who's dead (Zack too obviously but I'm excluding him from the equation to highlight the fallacy of those who want CA at all costs) which I'm here for you and I'll help you resolve your existential dramas."

Of course I understand that showing Aerith still pleases the fans, but I say really couldn't they have put her in at least a more pleasant context?


Obviously this is just my point of view and I am no one to judge whether it can be right or not.

very well said.

They could have done Aerith's character a lot better.

I do truly like how at the end Aerith and Zack walk into the light together as it should be.

That smile Tifa gives to Cloud says to me, I will be jumping your bones tonight!

 

[c.lupara]

very well said.

They could have done Aerith's character a lot better.

I do truly like how at the end Aerith and Zack walk into the light together as it should be.

That smile Tifa gives to Cloud says to me, I will be jumping your bones tonight!

Eeehm

 

[Ryeleigh]

At least in Buffy's case the argument is between two men she definitively liked and slept with and the actual resolutiion to it is at the end of years and years worth of extra comics.

I've never read the comics but there are still definitely people out there in the BtVS fandom who try to prove each other's ships "the more toxic one" which is a funny way to waste time, lol.

So the point still stands: LTD never ends. Even if they're completely made up like in the case of Supernatural and ATLA, lol.