SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

MissMDusk

MissMDusk

Lv. 25 Adventurer
AKA
Mari
I also personally feel the same about the Water Tower scene. Their "date" really could have been anywhere else but they decided to have Aerith sit right where Tifa did and have Cloud talk about his honest feelings to her and it... Just didn't feel great to watch tbh. Like I guess I get it, but I also definitely believe Nojima when he said it was hard to write this scene (believe it was in the Ultimania) overall lol.

I just hope they compensate with CT and put some new and extra scenes between them in the next game? Though with a big chunk of the plot left to chew I'm not sure how they'd even fit new content in like that lol. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
 
nars305

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
Eerie said:
And I would argue that Cloud would never admit this. Because he never opens up to those feelings to anyone, since they must remain a secret. I do believe that the actual true Cloud answer to Aerith there should be the one where he denies it.

It also makes more sense for Aerith to be comfortable to take him on a date (whether ch12 or the dream date) if he never admits it too. Otherwise it would scream desperate and I don't believe Aerith is desperate.
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I do get what you mean, and I still think it’s janky due to one of my one biggest gripes about the game. Tifa and Aerith are in a love triangle on the outside of the game but not inside of the game. It causes these weird moments. In this scene she is teasing him about his feelings for Tifa and then in a later scene she is trying to figure out her feelings. It can be argued she can be aware of Tifa’s feelings and still like Cloud, but that is not what is alluded to in the story. It’s almost as if that answer is there for the player wanting Cloud to admit that about Tifa OR, wanting Cloud to be honest with Aerith. So it’s janky.

That was a tangent that kind of went off point, but yes I see what you mean and I agree it was a strange answer. But with that scene and it being the best choice I can only assume it’s to show him opening up to Aerith. I agree the more awkward response is more Cloud to me.

It reminds me of the Cosmo Canyon bonfire speech. I chose smile because it seems like that’s what Cloud would do to me and it turned out being the most awkward smile ever.
 
Eerie

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Stiggie said:
Yeah, while there is stuff that I feel was taken from CT I don't think the water tower is one since imo that scene 100% revolved around tifa so it was strengthened.

What I do absolutely hate....is no promises to keep. "The promise" is THE cloti theme, and undermining it like that just sickens me. For me these writing decisions do make me dislike Aerith as a character, because I think what defines a good character is when they exist in service to the story. When they add to it and Improve it. And what I hate is when I feel like the story is in service to them, and that's what rebirth and the whole defying destiny thing feels like in regards to aerith. Like the game is not about the story of ffvii, but about Aerith and her death.
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I thought au contraire that the song title was very evocative of how CA wasn’t meant to be; I also didn’t think it would be good if it was going to be about Zack either. In FF, promises are often strong romantic tropes, so saying there was no promise to keep was basically saying there was nothing left to await from the pairing. To me the song fits infinitely better at the end of the game too.
nars305 said:
I do get what you mean, and I still think it’s janky due to one of my one biggest gripes about the game. Tifa and Aerith are in a love triangle on the outside of the game but not inside of the game. It causes these weird moments. In this scene she is teasing him about his feelings for Tifa and then in a later scene she is trying to figure out her feelings. It can be argued she can be aware of Tifa’s feelings and still like Cloud, but that is not what is alluded to in the story. It’s almost as if that answer is there for the player wanting Cloud to admit that about Tifa OR, wanting Cloud to be honest with Aerith. So it’s janky.

That was a tangent that kind of went off point, but yes I see what you mean and I agree it was a strange answer. But with that scene and it being the best choice I can only assume it’s to show him opening up to Aerith. I agree the more awkward response is more Cloud to me.

It reminds me of the Cosmo Canyon bonfire speech. I chose smile because it seems like that’s what Cloud would do to me and it turned out being the most awkward smile ever.
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Toriyama and Nojima did comment that Cloud’s answers could be OOC and they didn’t like this much so I still believe he smiles to Aerith at the bonfire (introvert would never make a fuss) and that he denies watching Tifa from the water tower.
 
imach0c0

imach0c0

Pro Adventurer
Regarding the Water Tower Scene --

I think what makes it a bit disjointed is the scene is addressing too many things at once in a short period of time without a clear focus. One one hand, Cloud is opening up to Aerith as he recollects his memories. (This holds more weight knowing the context that Nibelheim is a place of trauma for him). On the other side, it becomes about Aerith as she expresses envy about the CT relationship and how she wishes she had a friend to reminisce with. On top of that, the CT relationship looms over the scene due to how iconic the Water Tower is and Aerith teasing Cloud about it.

At first glance, it can seem like the CT promise scene is being replaced or shared with CA. However, I think the sacredness of the CT promise scene is protected because of how the CA scene is presented:

-The best answer is for Cloud to admit that he probably kept lookout to have Tifa wave at him
-This Water Tower is a replica, not the original
-Cloud does not sit beside Aerith despite her inviting him to sit next to her (He chooses to sit in his original spot)
-The scene occurs in the daytime (Promise scene occurs under the starry night)
-When Tifa waves, Cloud makes a shy expression (indicating his emotional connection to her)

Having said that, it requires the player to analyze and look past the surface to detect these nuances.
 
Sacky

Sacky

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AKA
SackyBoy
overheat28 said:
Haha, I was just reading it. The seethe is real over on hardcore CA side, hive has been overturned. Brilliant thread and analysis, though.
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i don't understand why they are so angry some of those tweets are disgusting. Its rich coming from people saying wow too long while tweeting 100 times a day saying omg im crying ahekrkkfgksfkaf
 
overheat28

overheat28

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Overheat
Sacky said:
i don't understand why they are so angry some of those tweets are disgusting. Its rich coming from people saying wow too long while tweeting 100 times a day saying omg im crying ahekrkkfgksfkaf
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I feel they are angry because It directly addresses some of their most dearly held arguments about the church scene. No, Aerith's "confession" was not an outright declaration of love, she was confused and said as much. Cloud was not, in fact, acting like a gormless anime protagonist while the girl was trying to confess, he knew perfectly well what was going on and he deflected. Showing Zack sitting at the church right after she said "our place/place of memories" was intentional. LA version appears to match more close with events in a shot by shot comparison etc.

Their main argument appears to be that in whatever scene Aerith appears confused, sad or uncomfortable - it's because she knows Sephiroth is coming. Well yes, that's part of it for sure, but you have to ask why this sequence was framed as a date in the first place if it wasn't about her feelings.

A lot of "you don't mention Sephiroth, but have the nerve to mention Zack, who she already rejected" energy coming from them. It's funny.
 
nars305

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
I can’t help but feel like the dream date is pretty easy to understand. As soon as I heard “there’s liking, and then there’s liking” I immediately understood what was being conveyed. Apply the rest of the context and it’s really all there that Aerith is confused about her feelings for Cloud, still has feelings for Zack, and Cloud does not have the same feelings as Aerith because he’s already in love with someone else.

It just drives me nuts because it’s very blatant to me. Like if Cloud and Tifa had this conversation I’d be like oh…
 
Yoru

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
nars305 said:
I can’t help but feel like the dream date is pretty easy to understand. As soon as I heard “there’s liking, and then there’s liking” I immediately understood what was being conveyed. Apply the rest of the context and it’s really all there that Aerith is confused about her feelings for Cloud, still has feelings for Zack, and Cloud does not have the same feelings as Aerith because he’s already in love with someone else.

It just drives me nuts because it’s very blatant to me. Like if Cloud and Tifa had this conversation I’d be like oh…
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I hope they never confess to anyone, because we need to call the police immediately for attempted molestation. We don't have the same notion of reciprocity.
 
nars305

nars305

🎵 I am so, so bored 🎶
Yoru said:
I hope they never confess to anyone, because we need to call the police immediately for attempted molestation. We don't have the same notion of reciprocity.
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It’s really interesting honestly. I feel like I’ve said it a million times…I understand interpretation, I really do. But come on now, the way Aerith phrases her confession is not the first time it has been used. “I like you like you” is a playground confession. She couldn’t say that!

The relationship they have is special. But I can’t even say anymore that’s it’s a “what could have been” type of romance because TIFA and all the development they put in that. Also…ZACK and the development they put in that. There is no what could have been.

Maybe I just need to accept it as different interpretations, or just mind my own business. FF7 is a cool story, it’s great in the way it’s told, but it is not a story that is hard to understand.
 
Yoru

Yoru

Pro Adventurer
They have to get it into their heads that all the scenes are built from a bare-bones version. In other words, the LA or HA scene must indicate the same basic message. The game must take each player into account, and keep a coherent overall version so that everyone has the same experience.

LA = HA. It's as simple as that. It's the same thing, but more intimate.

And the basic message is clear. Her feelings are too uncertain and Cloud is in deflection mode.
 
Yoru

Yoru

Pro Adventurer

x.com

x.com x.com

Bro, they're spending millions to animate this pretty face. In any given situation.

Shady's thread is full of close-up. It's not complicated to see something is wrong about this "confession"
 
P

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
Yoru said:

x.com

x.com x.com

Bro, they're spending millions to animate this pretty face. In any given situation.

Shady's thread is full of close-up. It's not complicated to see something is wrong about this "confession"
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Cloud is no stranger to being hit on and pursued, but he handles those pretty harshly because he usually doesn’t care about the other person, but here you see him handle it when he DOES care about that person, just in a different way.

Tifa wouldn’t get this cagey reaction. That’s the face of a guy who knows it’s a “no” but doesn’t want to hurt her feelings.
 
Sacky

Sacky

Pro Adventurer
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SackyBoy
i accidentally got into a twitter war, by explaining, "have we lost to our memories"
and it spiralled into every clerith take possible from every major clerith now its on to important woman vs koibito
these arguments from 2007 popping up now is mad XD
x.com if you want to read this long thread of pain here you go XD
 
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