SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[pxl_pushr]

And then we can all ride Hailey's comet to eternity. Wait, wrong cult.


At least this one is external?


But when you have the map rotated 180 degrees, the A is first and so it must mean Aerith.


Maybe make him from NZ instead of an Aussie, too.


Exactly. Manners Heavy can be a southern lady in a giant hat. Still with a giant rotary cannon, mind.


And he will have no one to blame but himself.


Yes. Allow superheroes to grow, including growing old, having kids, and retiring.
Then have them freak out when their kids become superheroes.



I think there's only the universe where every member of the Avengers has a fabulous beard.


I shall make it so.


You mean the phoenix force or the character assassination from editorial?


If he could still talk, he could sing us a happy tune about looking on the bright side.


I do think every major logical fallacy has been hit with both obvious and subtle examples, so, yes.


That's a rather common plea, all told.


Just make sure you do so with intellectual rigor.


I have to wonder what the endgame was when the post history was just right there, ready to read.


Yeah. It's not the shipping that's maddening, it's the making shit up.
Like someone talked about Kingdom Hearts and how Sora kept meeting pricnesses and princes of various world as a comparison to him and Kairi and it was "obvious" Aerith was the princess of the world all the FF people came from (Radiant Garden), except for 2 major problems.
1. Not all the princesses of Heart Sora meets have princes, certainly not ones Sora himself meets.
2. Kairi is the princess of Heart of Radiant Garden. Not Aerith. And then there's the whole "Tifa is Cloud's light" thing...

I also saw an argument about "thematically matching names" as evidence, which was funny because they picked out Tidus and Yuna and Noctis and Luna as examples of this, and then forgot all about Cecil and Rosa, Locke and Celes, Squall and Rinoa, Zidane and Garnet/ Dagger, Vaan and Penelo, Snow and Serah and Clive and Jill and that's not even the full list of "not thematically linked" names, since I only did the most main pairing from the main series.


Not consciously, but I think she suspects, given she reacts at the end of CC.


Yeah, she wants to try and be fair (ba dum tish) to Cloud and to her memory of Zack. The problem is she's emotionally conflated the two of them and can't quiiiite extricate them.


"I want to meet the real you" essentially, same as she said back in 97. Not a quote, since I'm being lazy, just that is what I remember of the quote. Looking at the line, yeah, "Want to meet you" is the literal translation and I think the emphasis is on the you -anata - in the spoken line.

I mean she doesn’t know the circumstances, sorry wasn’t clear on that. She may have felt him die, but she doesn't know he died right outside of Midgar on his way to see her.

Though I wonder if she felt him after Remake too.

 

[abzy1200]

Though I wonder if she felt him after Remake too.

She has to have felt something. iirc afterwards she says "the steel sky, I miss it" or "I don't like this sky"straight afterwards or something along those lines, essentially it represents uncertainty (if I had to hazard a guess?) and it's also a reference to Angeal taking Zack to the afterlife. So yes, that interaction is 100% about Zack almost in it's entirety.

It definity feels like she felt something that prompted that response from her right after that interaction.

 

[Yoru]

Though I wonder if she felt him after Remake too.

It reminds me of the sentence they patched at the end of the Remake to make it 1:1 with the Japanese

“This sky... I don't like it.”

If they had to patch it... I'm 100% sure it's because she can literally see the scratch in the sky when the others can't.

So yes, in my opinion, she senses more than we think... and it's a real shame that they kept it quiet for most of the game. Their writing of Aerith in Rebirth is really super strange.

 

[Legend45]

Anyone else feel like they turned the Retrilogy into a sort of "teen drama" in the English Localization?

 

[ViolaaFox]

Anyone else feel like they turned the Retrilogy into a sort of "teen drama" in the English Localization?
View attachment 16978

Yes, especially after replaying it in german.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Anyone else feel like they turned the Retrilogy into a sort of "teen drama" in the English Localization?
View attachment 16978

Unfortunately, yes. I’m curious how many people even care about the LT in general and would’ve preferred it not “return” at all. That’s what I liked about Remake, felt like it hinted at it not being part of the story at all.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Late, but thanks Ryu.

Forum rules are one thing, I have no beef with the staff at TLS, feel people worked hard to keep spoilers contained in the lead up to and during release of the games and keep an eye on this section, I will always defend Lex, Yop, Mage, Ghost, etc from criticism (not that they need my help but yeah) and things that happen like in YouTube thread. Sometimes bizarre things happen. I don't really have beef with many in here personally. I will stay true to myself.

 

[Eerie]

It reminds me of the sentence they patched at the end of the Remake to make it 1:1 with the Japanese

“This sky... I don't like it.”

If they had to patch it... I'm 100% sure it's because she can literally see the scratch in the sky when the others can't.

So yes, in my opinion, she senses more than we think... and it's a real shame that they kept it quiet for most of the game. Their writing of Aerith in Rebirth is really super strange.

Nomura said she hates the sky because it took away her mother Ifalna and Zack.

 

[Yoru]

Nomura said she hates the sky because it took away her mother Ifalna and Zack.

Sure. But if that's all it was, they could keep the original translation. The fact that they're forced to stick to the Japanese indicates that it's important for the sentence to be exactly the same.

To me it's pretty obvious that they had their “oh boy” moment because they thought it was a metaphor when it was a phrase to be taken literally.

And the fact that the sky comes back into the discussion again at the end of Rebirth, to me that's clearly related.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

And then we can all ride Hailey's comet to eternity. Wait, wrong cult.

No worries, they all blend together after a bit. I mean, they're all just so cult-y.

At least this one is external?

And more predictable.

But when you have the map rotated 180 degrees, the A is first and so it must mean Aerith.

And if you fold the map shut and put it away none of its real

Maybe make him from NZ instead of an Aussie, too.

Funny you should mention, Sniper is in fact a born New Zealander raised in Australia, hence his lack of huge muscles and moustache. So the Manners Sniper should be an Australian raised in NZ Also they can keep "Thanks for standing still" and just sound genuine I stead of mocking.

Exactly. Manners Heavy can be a southern lady in a giant hat. Still with a giant rotary cannon, mind.

Can she name her equivalent of Sasha something like Junior and fire on it like a living grandma?

And he will have no one to blame but himself.

Won't stop him from trying to blame everyone else until they blow up at him mind you.

Yes. Allow superheroes to grow, including growing old, having kids, and retiring.
Then have them freak out when their kids become superheroes.

For real Marvel, you love trying to make Peter all dangerous and scary. Nothing makes Pete get dangerous like his kid being threatened.

I think there's only the universe where every member of the Avengers has a fabulous beard.

Truly the multiverse is a marvel.

I shall make it so.

Excellent.

You mean the phoenix force or the character assassination from editorial?

Yes.

If he could still talk, he could sing us a happy tune about looking on the bright side.

Angelus tried to do it for him, but everything suddenly got brighter. And hotter. It was a whole thing, but he just smiled wider.

I do think every major logical fallacy has been hit with both obvious and subtle examples, so, yes.

A greatest hits list of logical fallacies from the years of LTD threads would be longer than this thread.

That's a rather common plea, all told.

I think it's commonality makes it more special in the right way.

Just make sure you do so with intellectual rigor.

First sight and second thoughts folks.

I have to wonder what the endgame was when the post history was just right there, ready to read.

I've met enough of these yahoos that my guess is: there was no endgame, just reactionary dumb.

Yeah. It's not the shipping that's maddening, it's the making shit up.
Like someone talked about Kingdom Hearts and how Sora kept meeting pricnesses and princes of various world as a comparison to him and Kairi and it was "obvious" Aerith was the princess of the world all the FF people came from (Radiant Garden), except for 2 major problems.
1. Not all the princesses of Heart Sora meets have princes, certainly not ones Sora himself meets.
2. Kairi is the princess of Heart of Radiant Garden. Not Aerith. And then there's the whole "Tifa is Cloud's light" thing...

Man they make KH sound so much shittier than it is. And I don't even care for it.

I also saw an argument about "thematically matching names" as evidence, which was funny because they picked out Tidus and Yuna and Noctis and Luna as examples of this, and then forgot all about Cecil and Rosa, Locke and Celes, Squall and Rinoa, Zidane and Garnet/ Dagger, Vaan and Penelo, Snow and Serah and Clive and Jill and that's not even the full list of "not thematically linked" names, since I only did the most main pairing from the main series.

You are more committed than I, I'd have just laughed at how fundamentally wrong they are.

 

[pxl_pushr]

No worries, they all blend together after a bit. I mean, they're all just so cult-y.



And more predictable.



And if you fold the map shut and put it away none of its real



Funny you should mention, Sniper is in fact a born New Zealander raised in Australia, hence his lack of huge muscles and moustache. So the Manners Sniper should be an Australian raised in NZ Also they can keep "Thanks for standing still" and just sound genuine I stead of mocking.



Can she name her equivalent of Sasha something like Junior and fire on it like a living grandma?



Won't stop him from trying to blame everyone else until they blow up at him mind you.



For real Marvel, you love trying to make Peter all dangerous and scary. Nothing makes Pete get dangerous like his kid being threatened.



Truly the multiverse is a marvel.



Excellent.



Yes.



Angelus tried to do it for him, but everything suddenly got brighter. And hotter. It was a whole thing, but he just smiled wider.



A greatest hits list of logical fallacies from the years of LTD threads would be longer than this thread.



I think it's commonality makes it more special in the right way.



First sight and second thoughts folks.



I've met enough of these yahoos that my guess is: there was no endgame, just reactionary dumb.



Man they make KH sound so much shittier than it is. And I don't even care for it.



You are more committed than I, I'd have just laughed at how fundamentally wrong they are.

KH as evidence confused me so much for the longest time but because KH2 is about as blatant as it gets, even more so with dev commentary turned on. That and it cracks me up that Tifa looks for Cloud the same way you look for a lost cat.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Late, but thanks Ryu.

Forum rules are one thing, I have no beef with the staff at TLS, feel people worked hard to keep spoilers contained in the lead up to and during release of the games and keep an eye on this section, I will always defend Lex, Yop, Mage, Ghost, etc from criticism (not that they need my help but yeah) and things that happen like in YouTube thread. Sometimes bizarre things happen. I don't really have beef with many in here personally. I will stay true to myself.

Y'welcome.
And absolutely stay true to yourself, just don't get mad us us staying true to ourselves and don't assume malice. Most people here are also Aerith fans and want the best for her, even if we don't think she and Cloud are an item in the narrative.

No worries, they all blend together after a bit. I mean, they're all just so cult-y.

There is a basic cult playbook, when you get right down to it.

And more predictable.

So predictable you might even be able to get some restful sleep.

And if you fold the map shut and put it away none of its real

Map, what map?

Funny you should mention, Sniper is in fact a born New Zealander raised in Australia, hence his lack of huge muscles and moustache. So the Manners Sniper should be an Australian raised in NZ Also they can keep "Thanks for standing still" and just sound genuine I stead of mocking.

I remember that now. Yeah, we definitely need a huge moustached Kiwi as the Manner sniper.

Can she name her equivalent of Sasha something like Junior and fire on it like a living grandma?

Hmmm, something Jr. Like Eustace or Isaac.

Won't stop him from trying to blame everyone else until they blow up at him mind you.

That is also a Matt Murdock classic.

For real Marvel, you love trying to make Peter all dangerous and scary. Nothing makes Pete get dangerous like his kid being threatened.

You want to see Pete right about to turn into a monster, threaten his family.

Truly the multiverse is a marvel.

Indeed.

Angelus tried to do it for him, but everything suddenly got brighter. And hotter. It was a whole thing, but he just smiled wider.

Such a helpful dragon.

A greatest hits list of logical fallacies from the years of LTD threads would be longer than this thread.

If we're including explanations of how to recognize them, how they are fallacious and examples of non fallacious arguments, absolutely.

I think it's commonality makes it more special in the right way.

Everyday special.

I've met enough of these yahoos that my guess is: there was no endgame, just reactionary dumb.

Very well could be.

Man they make KH sound so much shittier than it is. And I don't even care for it.

I also recall seeing someone, maybe in response to the comment, talking about "Cloud searching various worlds for something" and concluding it was Aerith, but forgetting he keeps searching even when Aerith is right fucking there in KH2.

You are more committed than I, I'd have just laughed at how fundamentally wrong they are.

It's a consequence of how the brain works.

KH as evidence confused me so much for the longest time but because KH2 is about as blatant as it gets, even more so with dev commentary turned on. That and it cracks me up that Tifa looks for Cloud the same way you look for a lost cat.

It's also something of a pattern, or the start of one. If there is an appearance by Cloud in a non FF7/ Compilation work, and the fandom makes an assumption that his motivation is Aerith in that work, a sequel happens where it is clarified that, no, it was Tifa. KH is happened, Dissidia it happened. Not that it helps, necessarily, as people still claim he was searching for Aerith in KH and Dissidia. It's especially notable that they swerved into Tifa for Dissidia 012 because there was no real world reason to not swerve Aerith if they wanted to. They literally had her official VO on hand and under contract because she's also Lightning and she was the poster child for 012. But they didn't.
I've been considering doing a multi part essay on why C/T just makes sense in the narrative and the chronology of FF7, but it might also be worth looking at the external chronology too. Like, times in which despite there being no reason to avoid it if they wanted, SE chose to swerve away from the pairing, even in AUs, party games, etc.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

There is a basic cult playbook, when you get right down to it.

At the least they all write their playbooks via the same outline. Isolate members from dissenting viewpoints, etc, etc.

So predictable you might even be able to get some restful sleep.

That did finally happen last night. Git a solid eight hours and everything, in case anyone was worried. Which is great, I didn't make it to literal fucking hallucinations this time.

Map, what map?

There is none, as the journey is clearly open to interpretation But really its a road trip to Aerith.

I remember that now. Yeah, we definitely need a huge moustached Kiwi as the Manner sniper.

Agreed. It'll be a lovely little yin/yang thing.

Hmmm, something Jr. Like Eustace or Isaac.

You're right, just Junior is a tad too white trash feeling. Eustace Jr. has a nice ring to it though.

That is also a Matt Murdock classic.

Can't convince Matt shut is his own damn fault without a fight, can't convince Peter anything isn't his fault period.

You want to see Pete right about to turn into a monster, threaten his family.

RYV was so good every time a villain learned Peter wasn't gonna hold back and play friendly neighbor anymore. Just the look on everyone's face as he tears off Ock's arms is chef's kiss and a half.

Indeed.

Now if only editorial would stop using it to hand wave dumb shit.

Such a helpful dragon.

Legna and Michael/Mikhail are great, but Angelus is the OG of Drakengard.

If we're including explanations of how to recognize them, how they are fallacious and examples of non fallacious arguments, absolutely.

No doubt. A full course covering all pertinent and examples would run away in terms of page count.

Everyday special.

Let us be untied, not just by our many typos but also our plea for this nonsense to just stop already.

Very well could be.

T'would surprise no one, at least no one here.

I also recall seeing someone, maybe in response to the comment, talking about "Cloud searching various worlds for something" and concluding it was Aerith, but forgetting he keeps searching even when Aerith is right fucking there in KH2.

It takes a special kind of commitment to hang onto and reiterate a point while seeing it debunked before your very eyes. CAltists have that kind of commitment.

It's a consequence of how the brain works.

Fair.

It's also something of a pattern, or the start of one. If there is an appearance by Cloud in a non FF7/ Compilation work, and the fandom makes an assumption that his motivation is Aerith in that work, a sequel happens where it is clarified that, no, it was Tifa. KH is happened, Dissidia it happened. Not that it helps, necessarily, as people still claim he was searching for Aerith in KH and Dissidia. It's especially notable that they swerved into Tifa for Dissidia 012 because there was no real world reason to not swerve Aerith if they wanted to. They literally had her official VO on hand and under contract because she's also Lightning and she was the poster child for 012. But they didn't.
I've been considering doing a multi part essay on why C/T just makes sense in the narrative and the chronology of FF7, but it might also be worth looking at the external chronology too. Like, times in which despite there being no reason to avoid it if they wanted, SE chose to swerve away from the pairing, even in AUs, party games, etc.

It definitely deserves its own section of such an essay at least. I mean, it's an AU or party game, we could do whatever and not affect canon at all... still swerving hard into Tifa.

 

[Sacky]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasyVII/comments/1d6ffet/_/l6sat0g i Do not understand how people keep saying Aerith guided Tifa into the lifestream wasn't this only in Maiden. Please tell
me people still don't believe Madien is canon.

 

[ViolaaFox]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasyVII/comments/1d6ffet/_/l6sat0g i Do not understand how people keep saying Aerith guided Tifa into the lifestream wasn't this only in Maiden. Please tell
me people still don't believe Madien is canon.

Was just about to ask if this is from Maiden. I think the problem is that SE has never really distanced itself from Maiden in statements and therefore it is assumed by parts of the community that it is canon.

 

[Eerie]

Was just about to ask if this is from Maiden. I think the problem is that SE has never really distanced itself from Maiden in statements and therefore it is assumed by parts of the community that it is canon.

It is not part of the canon Compilation, and Benny has said already it was only his view of the thing. Maiden has been contradicted by the Compilation, many times.

The fact that people keep referencing it is stupid. CAs are all over it when it proves CT and Aerith is jealous of Tifa lol, is this really how they want this to go?

 

[Yoru]

https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasyVII/comments/1d6ffet/_/l6sat0g i Do not understand how people keep saying Aerith guided Tifa into the lifestream wasn't this only in Maiden. Please tell
me people still don't believe Madien is canon.

You know... why not ? I can see it happening. Personally, I'd like to see Aerith take care of Tifa. If she really exists in the third game, I'd rather see her take care of everyone than just help Cloud.

If what we see at the end of Rebirth isn't just a metaphor but actually Sephiroth attacking Cloud's subconscious, Tifa will need help. Someone has to open a passage for her before Cloud can agree to let her in.

 

[ViolaaFox]

It is not part of the canon Compilation, and Benny has said already it was only his view of the thing. Maiden has been contradicted by the Compilation, many times.

The fact that people keep referencing it is stupid. CAs are all over it when it proves CT and Aerith is jealous of Tifa lol, is this really how they want this to go?

Yeah but people will still turn an blind eye on it until SE themselves make a offical statement. And even then some will say that evil Cloti's forced them to deny Maiden being canon.

You know... why not ? I can see it happening. Personally, I'd like to see Aerith take care of Tifa. If she really exists in the third game, I'd rather see her take care of everyone than just help Cloud.

If what we see at the end of Rebirth isn't just a metaphor but actually Sephiroth attacking Cloud's subconscious, Tifa will need help. Someone has to open a passage for her before Cloud can agree to let her in.

That doesn't sound so bad to me. I mean in the end Aerith will be included in some way in part 3 and if they go back to the connection she and Tifa have built that would be cool too.

 

[Sacky]

You know... why not ? I can see it happening. Personally, I'd like to see Aerith take care of Tifa. If she really exists in the third game, I'd rather see her take care of everyone than just help Cloud.

If what we see at the end of Rebirth isn't just a metaphor but actually Sephiroth attacking Cloud's subconscious, Tifa will need help. Someone has to open a passage for her before Cloud can agree to let her in.

i can see it happening but i don't get how people keep claiming this is 100 percent what did happen from OG

 

[Eerie]

You know... why not ? I can see it happening. Personally, I'd like to see Aerith take care of Tifa. If she really exists in the third game, I'd rather see her take care of everyone than just help Cloud.

If what we see at the end of Rebirth isn't just a metaphor but actually Sephiroth attacking Cloud's subconscious, Tifa will need help. Someone has to open a passage for her before Cloud can agree to let her in.

In the OG I found it cute that Cloud heard her and saved her; the fact that they hear each other and save each other is a theme I hold dear but honestly they've already stripped out nearly all the themes CT has so I guess this is possible. I wouldn't like it personally, but given how Tifa was sent in the Lifestream in Rebirth, it's possible: although they will use those Weapons again rather than Aerith personally, because it's very probable that Aerith summoned them herself.

Yeah but people will still turn an blind eye on it until SE themselves make a offical statement. And even then some will say that evil Cloti's forced them to deny Maiden being canon.

I mean... there is a list of canon things in the Compilation. CTs have accepted that Last Order was taken out and this was made with SE supervision, unlike Maiden.

 

[pxl_pushr]

You know... why not ? I can see it happening. Personally, I'd like to see Aerith take care of Tifa. If she really exists in the third game, I'd rather see her take care of everyone than just help Cloud.

If what we see at the end of Rebirth isn't just a metaphor but actually Sephiroth attacking Cloud's subconscious, Tifa will need help. Someone has to open a passage for her before Cloud can agree to let her in.

Sounds plausible, so I wouldn’t mind it either. I do wonder if they’ll make it clear she’s protecting Tifa or if they’ll add some ambiguity that could also just be the planet keeping an eye out for them in general.

 

[Yoru]

i can see it happening but i don't get how people keep claiming this is 100 percent what did happen from OG

I don't know about this "dude" but most of the time we're talking about people who talk about revenge kiss, Tifa trying to rape Cloud in Gongaga or of a double confession of love in the church.

We don't play the same game. We'll never do.

Just let them in their weird fantasy world.

In the OG I found it cute that Cloud heard her and saved her; the fact that they hear each other and save each other is a theme I hold dear but honestly they've already stripped out nearly all the themes CT has so I guess this is possible. I wouldn't like it personally, but given how Tifa was sent in the Lifestream in Rebirth, it's possible: although they will use those Weapons again rather than Aerith personally, because it's very probable that Aerith summoned them herself.

I mean... there is a list of canon things in the Compilation. CTs have accepted that Last Order was taken out and this was made with SE supervision, unlike Maiden.

I prefer this moment to be private for the both of them. But as you said, they already changed things.
So if I have to choose, I'd rather see Aerith help her friend than just be Cloud Strife's exclusive guardian angel. The game keeps telling me that she wants to protect her friends. Show it.

I don't think she should be in the last game, but they obviously changed their plan. But if they went that route, yes, it has to be indirect help (especially the Weapons, as you said).

Quick note : Before I hear that I hate Aerith and wish her dead. Don't bother. Aerith's my character too. I want her to be happy too. But I don't want it to be at the expense of the story. Like it or not, in OG she's gone. So inevitably they're going to have to “invent” a way to bring her in. For me, she and Cloud were never a thing. So yes, I want to see her do something else.

 

[Ryeleigh]

In the OG I found it cute that Cloud heard her and saved her; the fact that they hear each other and save each other is a theme I hold dear but honestly they've already stripped out nearly all the themes CT has so I guess this is possible.

If you don't mind, I'd like to hear more about what themes they've already stripped out of CT? Unless I misunderstood the sentence, lol.

 

[Eerie]

If you don't mind, I'd like to hear more about what themes they've already stripped out of CT? Unless I misunderstood the sentence, lol.

Basically, things we can't claim 100% as CT as we did before: stars motif, water tower motif and even Tifa calling Cloud cute like a little chocobo (and have him subsquently styling his hair every time we'd stop by the Costa del Sol house). I know people are like "but it got way better for CT!" and I will agree on this, but it's like losing spice in your buffet. I know a lot of CTs are a little sad because of this.

 

[Yoru]

Basically, things we can't claim 100% as CT as we did before: stars motif, water tower motif and even Tifa calling Cloud cute like a little chocobo (and have him subsquently styling his hair every time we'd stop by the Costa del Sol house). I know people are like "but it got way better for CT!" and I will agree on this, but it's like losing spice in your buffet. I know a lot of CTs are a little sad because of this.

I know what you mean but I think people are over-exaggerating a bit with the water tower. Because they forget that it's primarily a knockoff. And that's a pretty strong meaning. Not to mention Cloud's reaction + the dialogue with Aerith, which is still a Clotifest.

Of course, it's not the same as something exclusive. But the message is still very strong.

Especially since it's not a secret place to begin with. It's already been said that it's the place used in the village for couples.