SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryeleigh]

Just something else here regarding the sidequests, it's really annoying to me when people say Cloud and Tifa "have no chemistry", because it proves to me that they haven't seen their frog side quest in Junon...if that's not chemistry I don't know what is.

Just to be pedantic, I've been reading this blog that's by a screenwriter and she looks at tv shows/films/pairings from the point of view of chemistry. She wrote that fictional characters don't have chemistry because chemistry is a human phenomenon, how actors onscreen click and feed off each other's energies. It's interesting stuff even if I don't agree with her on everything.

So ever since then it has lowkey bothered me when people talk about chemistry between fictional characters, lol. But that was just a meaningless aside, I'll let the thread carry on.

But I guess it's easier to say chemistry than "development" and "narrative weight" when talking about these things.

 

[abzy1200]

Just to be pedantic, I've been reading this blog that's by a screenwriter and she looks at tv shows/films/pairings from the point of view of chemistry. She wrote that fictional characters don't have chemistry because chemistry is a human phenomenon, how actors onscreen click and feed off each other's energies. It's interesting stuff even if I don't agree with her on everything.

So ever since then it has lowkey bothered me when people talk about chemistry between fictional characters, lol. But that was just a meaningless aside, I'll let the thread carry on.

But I guess it's easier to say chemistry than "development" and "narrative weight" when talking about these things.

Well, obviously. But I kinda just mean characters getting along in a flirty way, that's my criteria for "chemistry" here.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Well, obviously. But I kinda just mean characters getting along in a flirty way, that's my criteria for "chemistry" here.

Yeah when people say “chemistry” that usually translates to banter and open flirting. Not every couple needs to do that in fiction to have chemistry imo.

Cloud and Tifa may not do that too much, but they’re always there to support the other and somehow say what needs said. For example, Cloud talking Tifa up when she’s feeling discouraged about convincing people to help save the planet. That’s the type of stuff I enjoy between them.

 

[abzy1200]

Yeah when people say “chemistry” that usually translates to banter and open flirting. Not every couple needs to do that in fiction to have chemistry imo.

Cloud and Tifa may not do that too much, but they’re always there to support the other and somehow say what needs said. For example, Cloud talking Tifa up when she’s feeling discouraged about convincing people to help save the planet. That’s the type of stuff I enjoy between them.

Cloud and Tifa definitely get along with each other in their own fun way. Case of Tifa feels the need to mention that her and Cloud have silly conversations.

I think it's just that the compilation is so heavy on Cloti angst that people refuse to believe it when the idea of Cloud and Tifa having that kind of dynamic/relationship is brought up. The compilation only ever feels the need to cover rough portions of Cloud and Tifa's life, and this loops back around to us needing some kind of epilogue where Cloud and Tifa aren't caught up in something that prevents them from being happy together in that kind of way.

 

[Yoru]

Just to be pedantic, I've been reading this blog that's by a screenwriter and she looks at tv shows/films/pairings from the point of view of chemistry. She wrote that fictional characters don't have chemistry because chemistry is a human phenomenon, how actors onscreen click and feed off each other's energies. It's interesting stuff even if I don't agree with her on everything.

So ever since then it has lowkey bothered me when people talk about chemistry between fictional characters, lol. But that was just a meaningless aside, I'll let the thread carry on.

But I guess it's easier to say chemistry than "development" and "narrative weight" when talking about these things.

We live in a time where “fictional characters” are played by both motion and voice actors. Something even more significant with FF7 when you consider that they kept the same actors for several years.

So yes, I see what you're getting at, but I find her vision a little reductive. Especially when you see how much these actors talk about their characters and how precise the guidelines are.

And I'm not even talking about the Japanese actors who have been playing these same characters for more than 20 years.

So yes, personally I think it's a bit more nuanced than saying “chemistry is impossible in video games”.

 

[pxl_pushr]

We live in a time where “fictional characters” are played by both motion and voice actors. Something even more significant with FF7 when you consider that they kept the same actors for several years.

So yes, I see what you're getting at, but I find her vision a little reductive. Especially when you see how much these actors talk about their characters and how precise the guidelines are.

And I'm not even talking about the Japanese actors who have been playing these same characters for more than 20 years.

So yes, personally I think it's a bit more nuanced than saying “chemistry is impossible in video games”.

Yeah, if I could pick out two examples:

Tony Stark in the MCU is a fan favorite, but he’s only tolerable because he has characters written to balance him out. In Avengers movies it’s usually Cap, but in his solo films it’s between Rhodes and Pepper to take him back down a peg. That’s why he’s funny and endearing.

Loop this back to FF7, and that’s why Cloud and Barret work so well in ReTrilogy. It starts off antagonistic, but over time you feel it subtly shift to a more friendly tone. By the time of the GS date between the two, they admit they’ve grown a degree of respect between each other and they balance the other out.

In the original game, that didn’t come across as well but with all the VA and character acting, it’s a joy to watch.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

You mean you didn't memorize it in the three seconds it was visible beforehand?

I guess that's my bad then, oh well

Here's hoping it all sticks, then.

My fingers remain crossed.

In this case I feel it would be thematically appropriate, given the narrative of Brian.

Absolutely.

Maybe a third could help us synthesize the ideas.

That too would be quite helpful.

It was just a perfect setup for it.

Especially since they also made the neurotoxin.

All I need is a box. A cat. And some neurotoxin.

With fans like these, who needs detractors?

Honestly, I've seen actual Aerith haters that'd leave you with a better view of the poor girl than her worshippers do.

It's a very good reconstruction.

If ever the chance comes up I'll nan that then.

Oof.

More in the sense of "fire all armaments" really.

Yeah, heat/beat/repeat implies you can make something useful out of it.

Discords and forums have distinct and different purposes. I come to TLS for forum purposes.

Same.

Always in the distance, a Waaaahhh...

Yeah no. Gotta go watch the SMBZ reboot again so I can see Waluigi get beaten up and let this nightmare go.

Oh almost certainly.

No lie.

I believe it's the part where they blame it on another nation that it officially jumps to "war crime" there. It's unethical at all levels, mind, we're just talking about the scope and type of laws being broken.

Yeah I think you're right. The main contention here seems to be that several folks have used war crime/criminal in a more general way, while you rightly and as ever are using it in a direct way according to it's specific and proper definition.

I mean the incoherent fuming is also fun.

I like when they speak Angrish.

Yep.

Yup.

Much better plan.

The reduced risk of prion disease alone says you're right.

Come visit sometime, then.

Visits are nice.

 

[eleamaya]

He always gets accused of being a war criminal...but that's kinda the whole point. Zack - a young man wanting to be a hero and do the right thing, only to be manipulated into doing evil for a military serving as a higher power - almost sounds like real life, no?

Yes. He's a soldier. In the most basic sense of the word. He is sent to conflict zones to attack armies and military targets. He's following military orders.

He doesn't use this as an opportunity to attack civilians, loot, rape and commit other abuses. That's what war criminals do.

War criminal.... What's on earth these people equalize Zack to Netanyahu (Israel PM)?
There's a character who clearly has that role in this universe: accusing the rebellion/terrorist for killing the civilians when it's them who do that (President Shinra).

 

[Yoru]

I know it's a bit childish to say so, but they have gone super far.

What's the hardest thing you can find in Cloti? The homewrecking accusation? The accusation of using someone's mental distress to seduce them?

Clerith go straight for war criminals, body shaming, prostitution and mental abuse.

Like bruh. It's really harsh.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I know it's a bit childish to say so, but they have gone super far.

What's the hardest thing you can find in Cloti? The homewrecking accusation? The accusation of using someone's mental distress to seduce them?

Clerith go straight for war criminals, body shaming, prostitution and mental abuse.

Like bruh. It's really harsh.

I’ve seen some pretty rough interpretations of Aerith in ReTrilogy that pretty much equate her to Sephiroth. That’s about the worst I’ve seen.

While I do think SE needs to be careful about what she has and hasn’t had a hand in when all cards are on the table, I’d be completely gobsmacked if their intentions were remotely close to the worst read of her actions.

 

[Eerie]

I’ve seen some pretty rough interpretations of Aerith in ReTrilogy that pretty much equate her to Sephiroth. That’s about the worst I’ve seen.

Nah, the devs don't want fans to think about any of the heros in a negative way, and that includes both Tifa and Aerith. You're supposed to see them in a sympathetic way but I think it's trickier with Aerith than with Tifa because what she does can really rub off people the wrong way. I hope next game we'll have more insight about her that will make people understand why she did what she did etc.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Nah, the devs don't want fans to think about any of the heros in a negative way, and that includes both Tifa and Aerith. You're supposed to see them in a sympathetic way but I think it's trickier with Aerith than with Tifa because what she does can really rub off people the wrong way. I hope next game we'll have more insight about her that will make people understand why she did what she did etc.

For sure, I just want someone in the writers room with an eye for something that could be misinterpreted too easily. Powerful characters are easy to mess up, which is why I always prefer avoiding the issue all together

 

[MissMDusk]

Why is it when I go on Twitter, I see extreme shippers trying to discredit the CT almost kiss scene AGAIN, acting like Cloud is just standing there watching Tifa... The devs literally went out of their way to have Yuffie chant "Kiss! Kiss!" For you to understand it's a romantic moment between them, what's not clicking?

And again with the CT date... Now I'm seeing people say that Tifa is begging Cloud to kiss her when she says "Or am I getting ahead of myself again?".... Like what? And even if she did (she didn't), do they miss the fact that Cloud not only makes the move to kiss her, he literally says "Not one bit." This is acceptance of her feelings, people... It's really not rocket science.

For a ship that seems to say that they won in this "debate", they sure seem to not be able to shut up about Tifa or her CT scenes. Lol.

Gotta start blocking these people, there's no hope for them.

Edit: Let me add, not to be mean but to make a point, Aerith confessed to Cloud twice in this game... Twice. And yet Tifa is the one they say is begging? And I'm not even saying Aerith is begging, it's literally characters trying to get across their feelings. Shippers like these ruin my enjoyment in this fandom...

Also sorry for ranting, I'm just tired of this... And it's gonna be for another 4 years lol.

 

[nars305]

Also sorry for ranting, I'm just tired of this... And it's gonna be for another 4 years lol.

Lmao I totally relate to your post cause I almost got lost in the sauce reading some things. There’s no argument to be had, and I can’t understand delusion. I refuse to take a lot of the things I read seriously anymore.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Earlier in the thread there was some discourse about the possibility of jealous Cloud but it was reported when Cloud's mocap played through Gongaga he said Cloud's intentions were pure. Since I had heard something along the lines that he favoured Cloti I was something like I'll take that with pinch of salt in case of possible bias then. I really should do more research sometimes. I might not have been particularly harsh but I was wrong anyway. Apparently he got the Yuffie date.

I mean, I suspect given Japan's intense PR industry and how tightly controlled a lot of actors are he's not allowed to say anything factually incorrect.

You know when Tifa was showing Cloud her scar in Gongaga and Jenova headfuckery made everything static-y and blocked Cloud from actually noticing it? Yeah, I suspect Cleriths have this happen to them whenever something pro-CT comes out, even if not official.

Only in the sense that it hurts them. The refusal to see what's there is entirely willful.

I chalk that up to me not being a 4 legged creature myself.

No, there are definitely two leggers way into four leggers. I don't know why but they exist.

Much obliged.

Welk.

Smash too, she's a mii fighter costume.

Although, Tifa and Barret also are, but it still doesn't change the fact.

I make the specific point for Dissidia 012 because in spite of having no real world impediment to it- Maaya Sakamoto was signed up to the game to play Lightning - they chose to NOT include Aerith in any way to the plot or even the combat outside of an assist character.

Aren't they all?

You aren't wrong, Angelalex just was a source of a lot of sillier as opposed to outright infuriating ones. Like Flower Field Spirit Sex with Aerith.
He legit believed that happened in AC's credits and wrote fanfic about it.

Leaked image of your car after you drive down the Clerith lane.
View attachment 17074

Are the rabid weasels nesting inside?

"Yuffie has complex feelings towards bugenhagen"

She's Jealous of him and that means Bugeria is the true ship of FF7!

Guys, new triangle just dropped!

Well, I'm mainly talking about the personality of Cloud. Obviously you should have figured out at least by the time of ToTA that he's unhinged.

I'm not really observant enough to catch small details on my first run through of things, so when playing the original I probably missed a lot of these signs you're talking about.

Which is absolutely fair, they're part of the twist, and the game wants you focusing on Aerith primarily so it can do its double rug pull, the direct one of her death and the second one they used her to hide in plain sight, Cloud's true identity, motivations, etc.

Google has literally been poisoned. Just out of curiosity I googled "who does Cloud love" and the first result was a post on Reddit: "It has never been stated anywhere that Cloud loved Tifa"

Forget the Crisis Core Ultimania that claims Cloud has began to fall in love with Tifa. No similar quote for Aerith, if I remember correctly.

Google's AI is fucking terrible and has been using the Onion as a source. Never confuse a search aggregate with a source.

Just something else here regarding the sidequests, it's really annoying to me when people say Cloud and Tifa "have no chemistry", because it proves to me that they haven't seen their frog side quest in Junon...if that's not chemistry I don't know what is.

I would take all accusations like "Tifa is boring" or "they have no chemistry" as the whining of those who didn't get what they wanted and thus need to shit on the cool toy another kid got.

I guess that's my bad then, oh well

Don't worry. You will be punished appropriately. And inappropriately if there's time in the schedule for it.

That too would be quite helpful.

Any takers for the third in our Dumb but amazing idea hive mind?

All I need is a box. A cat. And some neurotoxin.

Well, I can't authorize the box or the cat...

Honestly, I've seen actual Aerith haters that'd leave you with a better view of the poor girl than her worshippers do.

The things they've said and done in "support" of Aerith just boggles. I saw an image recently that Anastar apparently made in 2017 that makes me wonder about that woman's sanity. Moreso than usual.

If ever the chance comes up I'll nan that then.

There's always a chance your local library might have the collected volumes.

Yeah, heat/beat/repeat implies you can make something useful out of it.

We'd need to smelt to get usable metal out of these.

Yeah I think you're right. The main contention here seems to be that several folks have used war crime/criminal in a more general way, while you rightly and as ever are using it in a direct way according to it's specific and proper definition.

I like to be as the prophecies of Agnes Nutter, nice and accurate about these things.

I like when they speak Angrish.

Comes up quite a lot, when you get down to it.

The reduced risk of prion disease alone says you're right.

Thank you.

Visits are nice.

So visit, get some good food.

I know it's a bit childish to say so, but they have gone super far.

What's the hardest thing you can find in Cloti? The homewrecking accusation? The accusation of using someone's mental distress to seduce them?

Clerith go straight for war criminals, body shaming, prostitution and mental abuse.

Like bruh. It's really harsh.

It's not so much the harshness of the accusations, but the frequency of it among the fandom. Like the hottest average take about Aerith from Camp CT is that she is unintentionally 'using' Cloud as a stand in for Zack even though she's consciously trying to move on from Zack with him, and that it can seem like she's trying to make moves on Cloud despite knowing what Tifa feels, though I do think we might be supposed to take this as Aerith hoping she had a place in his heart even though she knew she couldn't really compete so she could be let down easy and suffer a heartbreak to move on, problem being Cloud is so laser focused he never understood that Aerith was even flirting with him.

Why is it when I go on Twitter, I see extreme shippers trying to discredit the CT almost kiss scene AGAIN, acting like Cloud is just standing there watching Tifa... The devs literally went out of their way to have Yuffie chant "Kiss! Kiss!" For you to understand it's a romantic moment between them, what's not clicking?

Nothing isn't clicking. It's all clicking. That's why they're so mad about it.

And again with the CT date... Now I'm seeing people say that Tifa is begging Cloud to kiss her when she says "Or am I getting ahead of myself again?".... Like what? And even if she did (she didn't), do they miss the fact that Cloud not only makes the move to kiss her, he literally says "Not one bit." This is acceptance of her feelings, people... It's really not rocket science.

For a ship that seems to say that they won in this "debate", they sure seem to not be able to shut up about Tifa or her CT scenes. Lol.

Gotta start blocking these people, there's no hope for them.

If they shut up about CT scenes, they can't run interference about those scenes. And while I understand the desire to block them, someone needs to stay watching them to debunk the bullshit.

Edit: Let me add, not to be mean but to make a point, Aerith confessed to Cloud twice in this game... Twice. And yet Tifa is the one they say is begging? And I'm not even saying Aerith is begging, it's literally characters trying to get across their feelings. Shippers like these ruin my enjoyment in this fandom...

Also sorry for ranting, I'm just tired of this... And it's gonna be for another 4 years lol.

If we're lucky it's for another 4 years. If not, it's another 27.

Oh, right, I want to jump back to the media literacy topic a bit. A little while ago, I saw a clerith react to a short little animation where Aerith and other FF7 characters were put into the Ouran High Host club opening animation in place of the regular characters, and the clerith was exulting over Aerith being made the main character and Tifa being "a side character like she's supposed to be." Setting that latter part aside, they seemed to think Aerith was put in the role of Haruhi as commentary on her being the romantic lead, and not, you know, sharing her voice actor.

The other thing, that I saw earlier today that I need to talk about it this monstrosity.



Apparently by Anastar, I have to wonder... does she think these characters have wills and voices outside what their creators and writing teams give them? Does she think there's a "real" Cloud and Aerith out there? There were fucking Sephiroth and Snape Wives who believed they existed on another plane of existence. I would not put it past this woman and it would actually explain some things.

 

[pxl_pushr]

I mean, I suspect given Japan's intense PR industry and how tightly controlled a lot of actors are he's not allowed to say anything factually incorrect.


Only in the sense that it hurts them. The refusal to see what's there is entirely willful.


No, there are definitely two leggers way into four leggers. I don't know why but they exist.


Welk.


I make the specific point for Dissidia 012 because in spite of having no real world impediment to it- Maaya Sakamoto was signed up to the game to play Lightning - they chose to NOT include Aerith in any way to the plot or even the combat outside of an assist character.


You aren't wrong, Angelalex just was a source of a lot of sillier as opposed to outright infuriating ones. Like Flower Field Spirit Sex with Aerith.
He legit believed that happened in AC's credits and wrote fanfic about it.


Are the rabid weasels nesting inside?


She's Jealous of him and that means Bugeria is the true ship of FF7!

Guys, new triangle just dropped!


Which is absolutely fair, they're part of the twist, and the game wants you focusing on Aerith primarily so it can do its double rug pull, the direct one of her death and the second one they used her to hide in plain sight, Cloud's true identity, motivations, etc.


Google's AI is fucking terrible and has been using the Onion as a source. Never confuse a search aggregate with a source.


I would take all accusations like "Tifa is boring" or "they have no chemistry" as the whining of those who didn't get what they wanted and thus need to shit on the cool toy another kid got.


Don't worry. You will be punished appropriately. And inappropriately if there's time in the schedule for it.


Any takers for the third in our Dumb but amazing idea hive mind?


Well, I can't authorize the box or the cat...


The things they've said and done in "support" of Aerith just boggles. I saw an image recently that Anastar apparently made in 2017 that makes me wonder about that woman's sanity. Moreso than usual.


There's always a chance your local library might have the collected volumes.


We'd need to smelt to get usable metal out of these.


I like to be as the prophecies of Agnes Nutter, nice and accurate about these things.


Comes up quite a lot, when you get down to it.


Thank you.


So visit, get some good food.


It's not so much the harshness of the accusations, but the frequency of it among the fandom. Like the hottest average take about Aerith from Camp CT is that she is unintentionally 'using' Cloud as a stand in for Zack even though she's consciously trying to move on from Zack with him, and that it can seem like she's trying to make moves on Cloud despite knowing what Tifa feels, though I do think we might be supposed to take this as Aerith hoping she had a place in his heart even though she knew she couldn't really compete so she could be let down easy and suffer a heartbreak to move on, problem being Cloud is so laser focused he never understood that Aerith was even flirting with him.


Nothing isn't clicking. It's all clicking. That's why they're so mad about it.


If they shut up about CT scenes, they can't run interference about those scenes. And while I understand the desire to block them, someone needs to stay watching them to debunk the bullshit.


If we're lucky it's for another 4 years. If not, it's another 27.

Oh, right, I want to jump back to the media literacy topic a bit. A little while ago, I saw a clerith react to a short little animation where Aerith and other FF7 characters were put into the Ouran High Host club opening animation in place of the regular characters, and the clerith was exulting over Aerith being made the main character and Tifa being "a side character like she's supposed to be." Setting that latter part aside, they seemed to think Aerith was put in the role of Haruhi as commentary on her being the romantic lead, and not, you know, sharing her voice actor.

The other thing, that I saw earlier today that I need to talk about it this monstrosity.

View attachment 17075

Apparently by Anastar, I have to wonder... does she think these characters have wills and voices outside what their creators and writing teams give them? Does she think there's a "real" Cloud and Aerith out there? There were fucking Sephiroth and Snape Wives who believed they existed on another plane of existence. I would not put it past this woman and it would actually explain some things.

Closest you get to that in reality are the voice actors and uh… well, I personally find Zack and Aerith’s VA situation pretty cute tbh

And if nothing of note happened under the Highwind… then why single out the scene? Hmmmm

 

[MissMDusk]

I know it's utterly ridiculous, but I can't help but fear the next game, just to cater to this group of people, will leave the ending ambiguous. It's an honestly horrible feeling that I try to disassociate from FF7 to lessen my anxiety about it lol. Even though I know Nojima has said he wants less up for interpretation, sometimes I wish they just said it plain and simple to the camera and be done with it.

It wouldn't end the "debate", but it would certainly end my torment

 

[Yoru]

I know it's utterly ridiculous, but I can't help but fear the next game, just to cater to this group of people, will leave the ending ambiguous. It's an honestly horrible feeling that I try to disassociate from the FF7 to lessen my anxiety about it lol. Even though I know Nojima has said he wants less up for interpretation, sometimes I wish they just said it plain and simple to the camera and be done with it.

It wouldn't end the "debate", but it would certainly end my torment

They've targeted them for two years of marketing and we've seen the numbers. They represent nothing. It's not going to change the game.

They're the only ones who don't want to see or understand that the game has already made its intentions very clear. The devs won't go back now.

Most of them aren't even consumers. They're just there to spout their bullshit.

 

[Sacky]

I know it's utterly ridiculous, but I can't help but fear the next game, just to cater to this group of people, will leave the ending ambiguous. It's an honestly horrible feeling that I try to disassociate from the FF7 to lessen my anxiety about it lol. Even though I know Nojima has said he wants less up for interpretation, sometimes I wish they just said it plain and simple to the camera and be done with it.

It wouldn't end the "debate", but it would certainly end my torment

They actually can't not have a talk about Cloud and Tifa's feelings in PART 3, I'm thinking lifestream with how they have written the story.
Theres been too much focus on Cloud's feelings with Tifa mentioned too many times by other characters (Jessie,Marle,Yuffie,Aerith,Andrea and
probably more) and each time we either have Cloud say i can't explain or the conversation gets interrupted or changed. But there is no point of these scenes in the last 3 games if there wasn't an actual confession, which again, im thinking lifestream, since and call me crazy Cloud and Tifa already know they weren't as close as they remembered; they had a talk about it. So instead, the lifestream sequence will double down on the romance between them and especially Tifa always loving him when he wasn't a SOLDIER. with this Cloud will then show Nibelhiem and then when Cloud is back they talk about their feelings and im gonna say a kiss since its too iconic to not have that. Theres also all the animation differences that had to be decided by devs and the whole team that show very different stuff. The gold saucer date with Tifa being the only one at the door in which he doesn't mention the others and if you had her earlier has unique dialogue saying we didn't get a chance to ride the gondoloa. Also with Zack and all of Tifa's scenes theres no reason at all to have anymore CA stuff especially with Zacks reunion with Aerith needing to happen.

 

[MissMDusk]

They've targeted them for two years of marketing and we've seen the numbers. They represent nothing. It's not going to change the game.

They're the only ones who don't want to see or understand that the game has already made its intentions very clear. The devs won't go back now.

Most of them aren't even consumers. They're just there to spout their bullshit.

You're absolutely right, though it's unfair this minority of people (on both sides of the LTD mind you) poison the FF7 discussion on Twitter. It's why I steer clear most of the time.

On a lighter note, I showed some people Cloud's infamous reaction to Aerith's confession in the sector 5 date to see what they thought he was feeling at that moment. Most did say he looked like he understood what he heard but either didn't know how to take it or didn't like it and felt uncomfortable. Made me feel better that I wasn't going insane lol.

Though my partner said he looked slightly constipated, which I don't think was a feeling the mo-cap actor wanted to convey in that scene but hey, just another possibility to think about I guess.

 

[Nancy]

Why is it when I go on Twitter, I see extreme shippers trying to discredit the CT almost kiss scene AGAIN, acting like Cloud is just standing there watching Tifa... The devs literally went out of their way to have Yuffie chant "Kiss! Kiss!" For you to understand it's a romantic moment between them, what's not clicking?

And again with the CT date... Now I'm seeing people say that Tifa is begging Cloud to kiss her when she says "Or am I getting ahead of myself again?".... Like what? And even if she did (she didn't), do they miss the fact that Cloud not only makes the move to kiss her, he literally says "Not one bit." This is acceptance of her feelings, people... It's really not rocket science.

For a ship that seems to say that they won in this "debate", they sure seem to not be able to shut up about Tifa or her CT scenes. Lol.

Gotta start blocking these people, there's no hope for them.

Edit: Let me add, not to be mean but to make a point, Aerith confessed to Cloud twice in this game... Twice. And yet Tifa is the one they say is begging? And I'm not even saying Aerith is begging, it's literally characters trying to get across their feelings. Shippers like these ruin my enjoyment in this fandom...

Also sorry for ranting, I'm just tired of this... And it's gonna be for another 4 years lol.

It's trash takes that those shippers recycle the same bs time after time so don't pay attention to them

 

[pxl_pushr]

You're absolutely right, though it's unfair this minority of people (on both sides of the LTD mind you) poison the FF7 discussion on Twitter. It's why I steer clear most of the time.

On a lighter note, I showed some people Cloud's infamous reaction to Aerith's confession in the sector 5 date to see what they thought he was feeling at that moment. Most did say he looked like he understood what he heard but either didn't know how to take it or didn't like it and felt uncomfortable. Made me feel better that I wasn't going insane lol.

Though my partner said he looked slightly constipated, which I don't think it was a feeling the mo-cap actor wanted to convey in that scene but hey, just another possibility to think about I guess.

I kinda understand the concern that they’ll pull their punches, but considering just how much we’ve gotten during the part of the story that was much more subtle towards Cloud and Tifa, I’m chilling.

The only part of the third game that’ll go bananas is likely the endgame world state. The original kinda speed runs to the end so I expect them to more comfortably lead up to the final fight.

If anything happens between Cloud and Aerith, I can see her finally getting to properly meet the real Cloud before she departs for the Lifestream.

 

[Yoru]

Aerith is dead. She's not supposed to appear anymore.

Something they changed with part 3. That's the devs catering to them. "You love Aerith ? Fine, have some more"

But that's all they'll get. So they don't need to cry, they already gave them fanservice.

Not the one they were hoping for. But that's on them. Sorry we're just following this 27 years old story.

 

[Shadowfox]

Apparently by Anastar, I have to wonder... does she think these characters have wills and voices outside what their creators and writing teams give them? Does she think there's a "real" Cloud and Aerith out there? There were fucking Sephiroth and Snape Wives who believed they existed on another plane of existence. I would not put it past this woman and it would actually explain some things.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is how some think. I've seen this kind of mindset in other fandoms too. ATLA has a sizable fandom that ships Zuko and Katara together and they regularly rant that their ship would totally have happened in the cartoon except that the writers wanted Katara to be with Aang instead. Every time I see that kind of thing being said, I can't help but wonder how people can make themselves forget that that's exactly how fiction works -- the authors write what they want to happen. The characters aren't real people; they don't just do what they want and the author is simply consigned to record it all down like some kind of witness's testimony.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I mean, I suspect given Japan's intense PR industry and how tightly controlled a lot of actors are he's not allowed to say anything factually incorrect.

NGL, that sounds both infuriatingly stifling and absurdly useful all at once. It's very Japan.

Only in the sense that it hurts them. The refusal to see what's there is entirely willful.

I'm sure there are a few who genuinely just don't get it, but true CAltists? Willfully all the way down.

No, there are definitely two leggers way into four leggers. I don't know why but they exist.

In that note, I'm sure Nanaki is attractive by his species' standards. He's well muscled with good teeth and claws, his dark mane speaks of good testosterone levels, his tail flame is bright and steady, etc. Even his injured eye doesn't hurt him over-much, as it clearly isn't hindering him much as a tracker and fighter. Comparing him to Seto he just needs to fill out a bit as he grows up, and he's likely a looker to others of his kind. He ticks the boxes for physical fitness in wild carnivores very well, with his appearance being a giant billboard of honest indicators.

I make the specific point for Dissidia 012 because in spite of having no real world impediment to it- Maaya Sakamoto was signed up to the game to play Lightning - they chose to NOT include Aerith in any way to the plot or even the combat outside of an assist character.

This. It'd be so easy and not terribly more expensive, and they chose not to take advantage there. Because 012 is there to say "no Cloud isn't looking for Aerith, it's Tifa, it's always been Tifa."

Are the rabid weasels nesting inside?

They took the picture.

Which is absolutely fair, they're part of the twist, and the game wants you focusing on Aerith primarily so it can do its double rug pull, the direct one of her death and the second one they used her to hide in plain sight, Cloud's true identity, motivations, etc.

A good twist, as we've discussed, should please both sides of the coin. The satisfaction of saying "I knew it" in the moment, or the "no way!" of the twist catching you by surprise, both of whom can now look back on the hints and enjoy them dearly.

Google's AI is fucking terrible and has been using the Onion as a source. Never confuse a search aggregate with a source.

That's still mental, of course.

I would take all accusations like "Tifa is boring" or "they have no chemistry" as the whining of those who didn't get what they wanted and thus need to shit on the cool toy another kid got.

Yeah, that's pretty much just an attempt to bury Tifa in salt. Again, there undoubtedly are people out there that legit don't find Tifa interesting and engaging, and that's fine. It's when they claim such should be the universal truth if all and demand Aerith get the extra screentime/attention that it becomes CAltist behavior.

Don't worry. You will be punished appropriately. And inappropriately if there's time in the schedule for it.

The moment it occured to me that a trainer with a single well trained Pokemon could probably tear Apeture to pieces in their way out if they deal with the deadly neurotoxin first.

If course, that makes me remember that there's no logical reason GLADoS didn't flood the facility as soon as Chell escaped the resting track in Portal 2, long before she could bring neurotoxin levels to dangerously nonlethal levels.

Any takers for the third in our Dumb but amazing idea hive mind?

Dumb not required but certainly not looked down on.

Well, I can't authorize the box or the cat...

Well then, science will make due.

The things they've said and done in "support" of Aerith just boggles. I saw an image recently that Anastar apparently made in 2017 that makes me wonder about that woman's sanity. Moreso than usual.

Oh? Which one was that? Cause it's difficult to imagine Anastar seeming more unhinged.

There's always a chance your local library might have the collected volumes.

Might be worth checking, even tiny rural libraries can surprise ya.

We'd need to smelt to get usable metal out of these.

Yeah too much effort, fire all weapons it is.

I like to be as the prophecies of Agnes Nutter, nice and accurate about these things.

Precisely.

Comes up quite a lot, when you get down to it.

Distressingly often even.

Thank you.

No worries.

So visit, get some good food.

I forget where roughly you're even located I really hate travelling as of my two cross country migrations. Still, tempting if ever I had cash free for plane tickets to make someone else do it and do it faster.

It's not so much the harshness of the accusations, but the frequency of it among the fandom. Like the hottest average take about Aerith from Camp CT is that she is unintentionally 'using' Cloud as a stand in for Zack even though she's consciously trying to move on from Zack with him, and that it can seem like she's trying to make moves on Cloud despite knowing what Tifa feels, though I do think we might be supposed to take this as Aerith hoping she had a place in his heart even though she knew she couldn't really compete so she could be let down easy and suffer a heartbreak to move on, problem being Cloud is so laser focused he never understood that Aerith was even flirting with him.

Frequency may be more indicative, but do remember severity definitely biases the memory towards the worst takes.

Nothing isn't clicking. It's all clicking. That's why they're so mad about it.

CT clicks like a perfectly machined set of parts coming together. CA clicks like the chambers on a revolver what have no bullets.

If they shut up about CT scenes, they can't run interference about those scenes. And while I understand the desire to block them, someone needs to stay watching them to debunk the bullshit.

It's just silly, since blocking CT doesn't make CAltists right, even if they convince newbs or casuals they still know themselves that they are wrong.

It's like people playing online shooters with aimbot. Even if you dominate, you didn't really win. I don't see the point if either.

If we're lucky it's for another 4 years. If not, it's another 27.

50+ years is too much LTD. Way too much.

Oh, right, I want to jump back to the media literacy topic a bit. A little while ago, I saw a clerith react to a short little animation where Aerith and other FF7 characters were put into the Ouran High Host club opening animation in place of the regular characters, and the clerith was exulting over Aerith being made the main character and Tifa being "a side character like she's supposed to be." Setting that latter part aside, they seemed to think Aerith was put in the role of Haruhi as commentary on her being the romantic lead, and not, you know, sharing her voice actor.

Business as usual.

The other thing, that I saw earlier today that I need to talk about it this monstrosity.

View attachment 17075

Kill it with fire?

Apparently by Anastar, I have to wonder... does she think these characters have wills and voices outside what their creators and writing teams give them? Does she think there's a "real" Cloud and Aerith out there? There were fucking Sephiroth and Snape Wives who believed they existed on another plane of existence. I would not put it past this woman and it would actually explain some things.

Coming from most people a "characters acting as if they're real and acting out their own story" thing would be a joke. Coming from Anastar, who I remember as utterly humorless, it's concerning. Her mental state may be worsening.