SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

Eerie

Fire and Blood
Interesting to note, the mocap artist for Cloud has been playing the game and he got to the ch14 sector 5. He knows the script from the backend, and he was actually a bit confused, because he was expecting a full sentence there, both the Mochiron and the Nakama parts.
Interestingly, a CT back then theorised that in Japanese it felt very much like "of course, we're friends" should be one sentence - literally how it felt while playing. I feel they should definitely be one sentence, and the fact that no one still knows exactly how to get HA/LA church scenes also feels very random. People have been getting both Tifa dates AND HA Aerith scene, for example. It almost feels like a bug, since, why is it not described in the Ultimania? xD That's the kind of feature that should be in the Ulti, just like how to get the dates etc.
 

Nancy

Pro Adventurer
Tifa expresses doubts in Cosmo Canyon that Cloud is really Cloud, and in Gongaga her reaction to Zack being brought up is similar ( not sure if this is true for Gongaga in EC, so anyone playing it can verify )

Yeah, it's true. Tifa still does the same as in the OG in EC.

I guess the only difference from OG and EC would be after you talk with the party in Cosmo Canyon they got up and left.
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
nteresting to note, the mocap artist for Cloud has been playing the game and he got to the ch14 sector 5. He knows the script from the backend, and he was actually a bit confused, because he was expecting a full sentence there, both the Mochiron and the Nakama parts.
this is interesting, do you have a source or citation or something for this because this would be pretty important imo but can't take your word for it unfortunately, these things too often become a game of telephone after all.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
this is interesting, do you have a source or citation or something for this because this would be pretty important imo but can't take your word for it unfortunately, these things too often become a game of telephone after all.
Completely understandable. Provenance etc.

Thank you for finding it so I didn't have to go searching.
 

Roundhouse

Pro Adventurer
Does anyone else find the name of this thread grating? Like people who post here must see it again and again and again, with the line about Coke and new Coke imprinting in your minds forever. Hell it might even be helping the marketing for Coke in general with the amount of attention and posts here.

It's like new coke except...no it's exactly like new coke but it's old coke except it's nothing like old coke and it's like new coke except arggghh!
 

Stiggie

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Stiggie
that does give off that vibe doesn't it?

In general, the sentence "Nakama Dakarana" is weird to me as a response to Aerith, since it lacks a confirmation.
Aerith asks for confirmation, but Cloud instantly say "because we're friends", without a "yes...because we're friends" or something like that. I know the nuance is likely to be different in japanese, perhaps the lack of a confirmation is less weird there, but its still noticeable.
"Mochiron, nakama dakarana" feels a lot more natural.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
I take off for a couple of months and I find everything exactly the same as when I left. It's nice to know things haven't changed (actually, I'm quite appalled at some of the takes I just saw catching up on this thread).

I saw someone earlier say how much of great guy Zack is for sleeping without a blanket so Aerith could have a pillow. I also want to add that Zack decides he needs to do what he can to fix Cloud so Aerith can be saved. It shows that he cares about Aerith's well-being and happiness to the exclusion of his own happiness, which is quite romantic in my opinion. And characters that are that pure are typically rewarded in some way when it comes to narratives.

Also, I audibly laughed for a good few minutes when I saw that tweet from some years past saying that Cloti fans would call a Clerith kiss something done out of jealousy. That's incredibly ironic.
 

abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
It shows that he cares about Aerith's well-being and happiness to the exclusion of his own happiness, which is quite romantic in my opinion. And characters that are that pure are typically rewarded in some way when it comes to narratives.
Much like Tifa and her decision to put Cloud before herself in Mideel, that she is rewarded for this. I have no doubt Zack will be the same.

actually, I'm quite appalled at some of the takes I just saw catching up on this thread).
uuuuuuh...they weren't any of mine were they?

Also, I audibly laughed for a good few minutes when I saw that tweet from some years past saying that Cloti fans would call a Clerith kiss something done out of jealousy. That's incredibly ironic.
It just shows they don't believe what they're saying. How do you know a Clerith is lying? Their lips are moving.

and welcome back, if you plan to stay, that is.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Much like Tifa and her decision to put Cloud before herself in Mideel, that she is rewarded for this. I have no doubt Zack will be the same.


uuuuuuh...they weren't any of mine were they?


It just shows they don't believe what they're saying. How do you know a Clerith is lying? Their lips are moving.

and welcome back, if you plan to stay, that is.

None were from anyone in this thread, just some of the outlandish tweets and youtube comments people posted earlier.

And let's be real, it's cope. If Aerith got an optional kiss and Tifa didn't, then they most certainly would lord it over the Cloti fandom.

Also, thanks... I do plan to stay. I just took off because I wanted a much needed detox from the LTD.

EDIT: Grammar
 
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Ryeleigh

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Rye
I saw someone earlier say how much of great guy Zack is for sleeping without a blanket so Aerith could have a pillow. I also want to add that Zack decides he needs to do what he can to fix Cloud so Aerith can be saved. It shows that he cares about Aerith's well-being and happiness to the exclusion of his own happiness, which is quite romantic in my opinion. And characters that are that pure are typically rewarded in some way when it comes to narratives.
And yet I've seen people call that moment his "cuck shed".

You know, at some point you have to wonder if people even like the story they're talking about or if they like the version of the story they wholesale made up in their heads.
 

abzy1200

Pro Adventurer
You know, at some point you have to wonder if people even like the story they're talking about or if they like the version of the story they wholesale made up in their heads.
Y'know, the wording of this has reminded me of a really funny, really true twitter post that I think of 24/7 on ff7twt.

"Cleriths just wholesale deny canon parts of the story. You could say Cloud and Tifa had sex under the airship and they'd be like 'you idiot! FF7 doesn't HAVE an airship'"

And let's be real, it's cope. If Aerith got an optional kiss and Tifa didn't, then they most certainly would lord it over the Cloti fandom.
Same thing with living together, running a business, raising a child etc etc.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
And yet I've seen people call that moment his "cuck shed".

You know, at some point you have to wonder if people even like the story they're talking about or if they like the version of the story they wholesale made up in their heads.
People are weird or they need some reason to clown on the character. Zack is just a good person, and therefore he’ll do the right thing regardless of his own happiness. For example, he could have abandoned Cloud after Nibelheim. He most assuredly would be alive and reunited with Aerith if that were the case… but he didn’t because that’s not who he is.

Also, a cuck is someone who gets off on their partner having relationships with others or they are people who have been cheated on, neither of which actually apply here as Zack isn’t particularly happy with the idea that Aerith might have feelings for Cloud. Moreover, Aerith and Cloud haven’t kissed or had sex, they’ve only talked (and the dialogue indicates that neither are exactly sure about their feelings) so he hasn’t exactly been cheated on either.

It’s just another method to downplay Zack’s importance to Aerith.
 
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Ryeleigh

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Rye
People are weird or they need some reason to clown on the character. Zack is just a good person, and therefore he’ll do the right thing regardless of his own happiness. For example, he could have abandoned Cloud after Nibelheim. He most assuredly would be alive and reunited with Aerith if that were the case… but he didn’t because that’s not who he is.
"But he's meeeeaaaan! Zack wanted to become mercenaries with his comatose buddy!" (Actual takes I've seen, lol.)

Which makes me wonder if these people have never played any other Japanese RPG. "Mercenaries" and "rangers" in JRPGs mean "jack-of-all-trades". Which includes killing monsters around the neighbourhood, fixing houses, finding pets and things, doing laundry, picking and selling flowers etc. Which is, unsurprisingly, what Cloud does in Re-trilogy. And not, like, a literal sellsword.

Hence why I increasingly keep asking if they even like FF7 or if they like the FF7 they made up in their heads, lol.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
"But he's meeeeaaaan! Zack wanted to become mercenaries with his comatose buddy!" (Actual takes I've seen, lol.)

Which makes me wonder if these people have never played any other Japanese RPG. "Mercenaries" and "rangers" in JRPGs mean "jack-of-all-trades". Which includes killing monsters around the neighbourhood, fixing houses, finding pets and things, doing laundry, picking and selling flowers etc. Which is, unsurprisingly, what Cloud does in Re-trilogy. And not, like, a literal sellsword.

Hence why I increasingly keep asking if they even like FF7 or if they like the FF7 they made up in their heads, lol.
That's so dumb. Zack wanted to become mercenaries together because that's what he was gonna do and he didn't want to abandon Cloud so he thought they could do it together. This is a fantasy setting, do people think that anyone that doesn't want to work a 9-5 job is some sort of bad guy. What does that make Barret then, because by their logic, he should be the biggest piece of shit ever.

I'm convinced they either haven't played the game, or their brains were on autopilot after Disc 1. They also have made up versions of the characters in their head that aren't compatible with what we see.

Take the jealousy argument for instance.

1) It makes Cloud a douchebag.

2) If Aerith ever found out that Cloud did this, she'd be super upset on Tifa's behalf.

They fail to realize that Aerith herself would be offended by such a thing. Not to mention the rest of the cast would be very disappointed with Cloud. It’s almost as if it makes Cloud a bad person to do something like that.

Also, calling Zack mean; when it’s pretty easy to see that all he ever wants to do is help people is pretty ick.

Edit: I added the last two paragraphs.
 
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GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Does anyone else find the name of this thread grating? Like people who post here must see it again and again and again, with the line about Coke and new Coke imprinting in your minds forever. Hell it might even be helping the marketing for Coke in general with the amount of attention and posts here.

It's like new coke except...no it's exactly like new coke but it's old coke except it's nothing like old coke and it's like new coke except arggghh!
I agree. A new name is needed now that Rebirth has been out for a while.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
Does anyone else find the name of this thread grating? Like people who post here must see it again and again and again, with the line about Coke and new Coke imprinting in your minds forever. Hell it might even be helping the marketing for Coke in general with the amount of attention and posts here.

It's like new coke except...no it's exactly like new coke but it's old coke except it's nothing like old coke and it's like new coke except arggghh!
I mean, it was an attempt at being funny and helping split out the argumentation between OG only, OG and Compilation Only, Remake only, and All in channels. Given the age of the thread we probably could do with a new thread and a lock.

If I still had mod/ admin powers I might do that. I might also move some of the archived LTD threads back into this subforum to make them easier to search.

None were from anyone in this thread, just some of the outlandish tweets and youtube comments people posted earlier.

And let's be real, it's cope. If Aerith got an optional kiss and Tifa didn't, then they most certainly would lord it over the Cloti fandom.

Also, thanks... I do plan to stay. I just took off because I wanted a much needed detox from the LTD.

EDIT: Grammar
Which was your 'favorite' of the takes you saw?

People are weird or they need some reason to clown on the character. Zack is just a good person, and therefore he’ll do the right thing regardless of his own happiness. For example, he could have abandoned Cloud after Nibelheim. He most assuredly would be alive and reunited with Aerith if that were the case… but he didn’t because that’s not who he is.
It's that they need to tear him down because he gets in the way of their ship. They do the same to Tifa too. It's hilarious when they do the same to Cloud in the name of their ship as well.

Also, a cuck is someone who gets off on their partner having relationships with others or they are people who have been cheated on, neither of which actually apply here as Zack isn’t not particularly happy with the idea that Aerith might have feelings for Cloud. Moreover, Aerith and Cloud haven’t kissed or had sex, they’ve only talked (and the dialogue indicates that neither are exactly sure about their feelings) so he hasn’t exactly been cheated on either.

It’s just another method to downplay Zack’s importance to Aerith.
So, even in the situation where Cloud and Aerith had done something it wouldn't be cuckoldry because Zack was dead. It would be weird and fucked up for them to have done anything so soon after meeting especially when it's obvious Aerith isn't over Zack, but it would not, technically, be cuckoldry.

Thread pedant, at your service.

"But he's meeeeaaaan! Zack wanted to become mercenaries with his comatose buddy!" (Actual takes I've seen, lol.)

Which makes me wonder if these people have never played any other Japanese RPG. "Mercenaries" and "rangers" in JRPGs mean "jack-of-all-trades". Which includes killing monsters around the neighbourhood, fixing houses, finding pets and things, doing laundry, picking and selling flowers etc. Which is, unsurprisingly, what Cloud does in Re-trilogy. And not, like, a literal sellsword.

Hence why I increasingly keep asking if they even like FF7 or if they like the FF7 they made up in their heads, lol.
Mercenary is definitely one of those words or phrases, like "Bounty Hunter" that means something entirely other than its literal english meaning in Japanese media. This is not to say the concept doesn't exist, but if they use the english word as opposed to the Japanese one, you expect something entirely different.
Like "ranger" is almost indelibly associated with clean cut heroic types as opposed to forest management, thanks to Super Sentai.
 

Ryeleigh

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Rye
Mercenary is definitely one of those words or phrases, like "Bounty Hunter" that means something entirely other than its literal english meaning in Japanese media. This is not to say the concept doesn't exist, but if they use the english word as opposed to the Japanese one, you expect something entirely different.
Like "ranger" is almost indelibly associated with clean cut heroic types as opposed to forest management, thanks to Super Sentai.
The only Japanese game series I've seen so far where mercenaries were, well, mercenaries was Fire Emblem. And even in FE, it was more of a job class and an indication that the character is recruitable. And that they usually liked fighting to hone their sword skills, lol.

Otherwise, the words are just cool-sounding titles for "does odd jobs and occasionally kills monsters". Which is pretty much what every RPG protagonist does, whether Western or Japanese.

But if people are going to hate Zack, they might as well hate the actual character instead of the character they made up in their heads, you know? XD
 

pxl_pushr

Pro Adventurer
AKA
Pixel
The only Japanese game series I've seen so far where mercenaries were, well, mercenaries was Fire Emblem. And even in FE, it was more of a job class and an indication that the character is recruitable. And that they usually liked fighting to hone their sword skills, lol.

Otherwise, the words are just cool-sounding titles for "does odd jobs and occasionally kills monsters". Which is pretty much what every RPG protagonist does, whether Western or Japanese.

But if people are going to hate Zack, they might as well hate the actual character instead of the character they made up in their heads, you know? XD
FF Tactics also comes to mind. Main character is technically a mercenary before he decides to do things beyond just money ( but he really wasn’t profit driven to begin with so… )

Speaking of which, I wonder if Remake Part 3 will wink at Cloud’s cameo in Tactics at all. Maybe in what he’s mumbling in Mideel or something.

The whole “Cloud is jealous in his GS Date with Tifa” saga has been interesting, and by interesting I mean comedic. All the dates are well crafted and in good faith.
 

GamerSkull

Pro Adventurer
Which was your 'favorite' of the takes you saw?
I’m particularly fond of that Twitter screenshot from back in 2021, claiming that when Cloud kisses Aerith, CT fans will deny it by saying he was just doing it out of jealousy.

The irony is too juicy. It’s almost poetic in a sense.

Also, I agree with you regarding Zack’s status as a “cuck”. None of the scenarios really apply. It really just feels like a cheap shot insult so they can further denigrate the character.
The only Japanese game series I've seen so far where mercenaries were, well, mercenaries was Fire Emblem. And even in FE, it was more of a job class and an indication that the character is recruitable. And that they usually liked fighting to hone their sword skills, lol.

Otherwise, the words are just cool-sounding titles for "does odd jobs and occasionally kills monsters". Which is pretty much what every RPG protagonist does, whether Western or Japanese.

But if people are going to hate Zack, they might as well hate the actual character instead of the character they made up in their heads, you know? XD
The only example of mercenaries I can think of in Japanese media that is close to what “mercenary” actually means is the Band of the Hawk/Falcon in Berserk. I’m sure there are more but I can’t think of any right now.

But yes, mercenary is just a cooler way of saying Adventurer. Just someone who completes quests for money.
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
The only Japanese game series I've seen so far where mercenaries were, well, mercenaries was Fire Emblem. And even in FE, it was more of a job class and an indication that the character is recruitable. And that they usually liked fighting to hone their sword skills, lol.

Otherwise, the words are just cool-sounding titles for "does odd jobs and occasionally kills monsters". Which is pretty much what every RPG protagonist does, whether Western or Japanese.

But if people are going to hate Zack, they might as well hate the actual character instead of the character they made up in their heads, you know? XD
FE actually has several notable Mercenary companies in its cast (The nation of Ilia, Gerrik, Greil, and Jeralt companies) in addition to the "mercenary" job class, though again I am not sure if the JP script uses the word "mercenary" or if it uses a JP word that means the same as mercenary. It's also rare in that it is very realistic about what Mercenaries actually do and how their lives often went.

FF Tactics also comes to mind. Main character is technically a mercenary before he decides to do things beyond just money ( but he really wasn’t profit driven to begin with so… )
I'd have to look up if he's called that or sell-sword.

Speaking of which, I wonder if Remake Part 3 will wink at Cloud’s cameo in Tactics at all. Maybe in what he’s mumbling in Mideel or something.
It's possible. I mean he commented about Xenogears the first time around.

The whole “Cloud is jealous in his GS Date with Tifa” saga has been interesting, and by interesting I mean comedic. All the dates are well crafted and in good faith.
Yes, and that's the problem, as far as the Clerith side is concerned. Given an even playing field, they lose, hence the need to kneecap the opposition with "optional!" "Jealousy" "Fanservice" etc.

I’m particularly fond of that Twitter screenshot from back in 2021, claiming that when Cloud kisses Aerith, CT fans will deny it by saying he was just doing it out of jealousy.

The irony is too juicy. It’s almost poetic in a sense.
Oh that one was so hilarious. Every accusation a confession, and all.

Also, I agree with you regarding Zack’s status as a “cuck”. None of the scenarios really apply. It really just feels like a cheap shot insult so they can further denigrate the character.
Yep!

The only example of mercenaries I can think of in Japanese media that is close to what “mercenary” actually means is the Band of the Hawk/Falcon in Berserk. I’m sure there are more but I can’t think of any right now.

But yes, mercenary is just a cooler way of saying Adventurer. Just someone who completes quests for money.
It's not the idea of them doesn't exist, it's everywhere, it's about the use of specific words to denote it as opposed to another idea with a different- usually foreign- word. A really good example of this is how 'Cowboy' got used in place of 'Bounty Hunter' in Cowboy Bebop.
 
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