SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[GamerSkull]

Honestly, I am curious what the CA think endgame is going to be, exactly, especially given Hamaguchi confirmed Aerith is dead and is not planned to return.

Cloud and Aerith will be together, either by revival or afterlife lifestream.

Tifa will move on and just be Cloud's friend. Zack can just be a cuckold.

That's their preferred ending. They will also accept the story not making sense as long as CA is canon.

In fact, if the entire game was pro-Cloti and then Cloud kisses Aerith out of nowhere in the last ten seconds, I guarantee they'd be happy even if it makes no sense. This doesn't apply to all of them, of course, but in my experience to a lot of them narrative cohesion is less important than the ship sailing.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Well they (the devs) also said that people would have to play part 3 to find out what happened to Aerith.

Doesn't seem fair the mind games but eh.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Cloud and Aerith will be together, either by revival or afterlife lifestream.

Tifa will move on and just be Cloud's friend. Zack can just be a cuckold.

That's their preferred ending. They will also accept the story not making sense as long as CA is canon.

In fact, if the entire game was pro-Cloti and then Cloud kisses Aerith out of nowhere in the last ten seconds, I guarantee they'd be happy even if it makes no sense. This doesn't apply to all of them, of course, but in my experience to a lot of them narrative cohesion is less important than the ship sailing.

I mean, there were people who thought Cloud was going to find the nearest tall cliff before AC came out and those who thought he'd be having sex with a ghost after it did, so yeah, would not be surprised at all.

Well they (the devs) also said that people would have to play part 3 to find out what happened to Aerith.

Doesn't seem fair the mind games but eh.

I mean, we need to figure out the method of time travel she's using to communicate backwards through time, but it seems fairly straightforward in broad strokes what her and Zack's narrative role are confined to in part 3.

 

[Shadowstorm]

I see a lot of them still absolutely convinced Aerith will be fine so I think they're still holding out hope for that complete rewrite the devs clearly have no intention of doing

 

[Eerie]

I mean, we need to figure out the method of time travel she's using to communicate backwards through time

I think it's the Lifestream right? The Lifestream is past present and future at once; those mini-worlds are right outside it but must also present the same features. The Aerith using this world is simply an Aerith who has already lived through CoLW I think, because it's really the Aerith she reminds me of (the way Sephiroth talked to her, the way she wanted to talk to Cloud but didn't know how to present herself to him, etc.).

Then, she dies, but she dies right before 'our' Aerith dies and is able to "take over", with her memories too since they're in the Lifestream. Aerith will soon know everything about that Aerith who died. That's why Sephiroth realised he was outsmarted, because even though he's killed Aerith in the world, by killing Aerith, she came back.

That's also why there's the disconnect between Aerith in CoLW (more Cloud-centric) and ACC (visibly happy with Zack). I think Nojima wrote it that way so he could connect everything.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I think it's the Lifestream right? The Lifestream is past present and future at once; those mini-worlds are right outside it but must also present the same features. The Aerith using this world is simply an Aerith who has already lived through CoLW I think, because it's really the Aerith she reminds me of (the way Sephiroth talked to her, the way she wanted to talk to Cloud but didn't know how to present herself to him, etc.).

Then, she dies, but she dies right before 'our' Aerith dies and is able to "take over", with her memories too since they're in the Lifestream. Aerith will soon know everything about that Aerith who died. That's why Sephiroth realised he was outsmarted, because even though he's killed Aerith in the world, by killing Aerith, she came back.

That's also why there's the disconnect between Aerith in CoLW (more Cloud-centric) and ACC (visibly happy with Zack). I think Nojima wrote it that way so he could connect everything.

Sorry, I should have been clearer- we need to learn about how she learns to to send information back.

The idea that it's an Aerith from just before Advent Children is an interesting one. It sort of makes Remake project an interquel for Aerith specifically but just a retelling for everyone else (Save Sephiroth). Curious where in the personal timeline she re-encounters Zack, then, since it seems Pt 3 is gearing up to have them reunite, but will it be standard Aerith or future Aerith?

 

[GamerSkull]

I mean, there were people who thought Cloud was going to find the nearest tall cliff before AC came out and those who thought he'd be having sex with a ghost after it did, so yeah, would not be surprised at all.

Yeah, I find it pretty ridiculous that the series could be arguing in favor of Cloud taking such an action. Sends a pretty shitty message about grief and acceptance.

Well, who knows... maybe Square Enix truly wanted to tell us that a loved one dying is a hole that can never be healed and we are all better off just offing ourselves if we experience it.

 

[Eerie]

Sorry, I should have been clearer- we need to learn about how she learns to to send information back.

The idea that it's an Aerith from just before Advent Children is an interesting one. It sort of makes Remake project an interquel for Aerith specifically but just a retelling for everyone else (Save Sephiroth). Curious where in the personal timeline she re-encounters Zack, then, since it seems Pt 3 is gearing up to have them reunite, but will it be standard Aerith or future Aerith?

I think future!Aerith is dead, only ours is left with memories of future!Aerith. So it makes her whole, but different from future!Aerith. I guess we'll have to see for p3 and see how much the devs are ready to answer questions regarding her role though.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Yeah, I find it pretty ridiculous that the series could be arguing in favor of Cloud taking such an action. Sends a pretty shitty message about grief and acceptance.

Well, who knows... maybe Square Enix truly wanted to tell us that a loved one dying is a hole that can never be healed and we are all better off just offing ourselves if we experience it.

Yeah, it's like we are playing fundamentally a different game than they are, which is, in a sense, correct.

I think future!Aerith is dead, only ours is left with memories of future!Aerith. So it makes her whole, but different from future!Aerith. I guess we'll have to see for p3 and see how much the devs are ready to answer questions regarding her role though.

So then the timeline would go something like OG Aerith- COLW - Remake - Split off during the rift and Hiding in the worlds - Dies but smuggles herself/ memories back to Rebirth Aerith - Enters the lifestream again 'normally' -Pt 3, ACC?
Is that what you're proposing, basically?

 

[Eerie]

No I think it's Remake!Aerith - Rebirth - CoLW!Aerith (dream world edition, dies there in the LS) - Rebirth (dies there in our world) - Remake (resolution, she does go back in time aware that his or maybe her feelings are an illusion) - Part 3 (Lifestream edition) - ACC.

I don't think OG!Aerith especially exists, she is just Remake Aerith, an expanded version of OG!Aerith. But CoLW exists after the Remake trilogy too. The insertion of CoLW Aerith exists because Aerith needs to question her own feelings for Cloud, to not get stuck. The church there was her Promised Land and that's why she ultimately met Cloud there, because it was her wish, but she realised her error. This is why the church where Zack landed is Rebirth!Aerith's Promised Land, because it will be her wish to meet Zack there, I think, and as a Cetra, it will become reality.

In short the end of p2 exists for CA to get their ending, and for Aerith to be able to transition back to Zack, most probably. Without it, we see her circling around Cloud (CoLW), but Nojima clearly wants to detach that Aerith, that used to be closer from her OG self, to the one we see at the end of ACC (yes, you're supposed to draw romance from ZA there and it's a clash with CoLW so it has to be explained).

So our Aerith does a nearly whole round before ACC before getting killed by Sephiroth, but outwits him as she sent herself back in the Lifestream "earlier" than her own death, which means that by dying... Aerith comes back into the Lifestream.

I'm not sure I'm clear but it does make sense in my head.

 

[Nancy]

I see a lot of them still absolutely convinced Aerith will be fine so I think they're still holding out hope for that complete rewrite the devs clearly have no intention of doing

That probably stem from Otakon panel when Briana was talking about Aerith bring dead or not & Hamaguchi stop her

 

[GamerSkull]

I see a lot of them still absolutely convinced Aerith will be fine so I think they're still holding out hope for that complete rewrite the devs clearly have no intention of doing

Interesting. But why would they even want a rewrite if the OG implies that CA is the endgame ship?

Yes, I know it's that they want Aerith alive but it makes me wonder....

If ReTrilogy ends with Cloti, then they'll claim only the OG exists. But they also simultaneously would like a rewrite... as if they're subconsciously aware that the OG doesn't end with CA either. Because after all, didn't they think they reunited in the LS?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.................................

 

[Ryushikaze]

No I think it's Remake!Aerith - Rebirth - CoLW!Aerith (dream world edition, dies there in the LS) - Rebirth (dies there in our world) - Remake (resolution, she does go back in time aware that his or maybe her feelings are an illusion) - Part 3 (Lifestream edition) - ACC.

I don't think OG!Aerith especially exists, she is just Remake Aerith, an expanded version of OG!Aerith. But CoLW exists after the Remake trilogy too. The insertion of CoLW Aerith exists because Aerith needs to question her own feelings for Cloud, to not get stuck. The church there was her Promised Land and that's why she ultimately met Cloud there, because it was her wish, but she realised her error. This is why the church where Zack landed is Rebirth!Aerith's Promised Land, because it will be her wish to meet Zack there, I think, and as a Cetra, it will become reality.

In short the end of p2 exists for CA to get their ending, and for Aerith to be able to transition back to Zack, most probably. Without it, we see her circling around Cloud (CoLW), but Nojima clearly wants to detach that Aerith, that used to be closer from her OG self, to the one we see at the end of ACC (yes, you're supposed to draw romance from ZA there and it's a clash with CoLW so it has to be explained).

So our Aerith does a nearly whole round before ACC before getting killed by Sephiroth, but outwits him as she sent herself back in the Lifestream "earlier" than her own death, which means that by dying... Aerith comes back into the Lifestream.

I'm not sure I'm clear but it does make sense in my head.

So is there a cycle where Aerith goes through the events of Dec 9 - her death without her future self involved? Because that's more what I meant by OG rather than an Aerith who experienced the 1997 game specifically. I'd been assuming essentially a two cycle Aerith, one who went through the events of the game's plot, started going back in time and making stops here and there- Possible in reverse order to chronology- then hopped into the Aerith we would call ;ours' right at the start of Remake and that's why the Whispers start going aggro with her.
Though that doesn't fully explain where Red's future memories come from.

Interesting. But why would they even want a rewrite if the OG implies that CA is the endgame ship?

Yes, I know it's that they want Aerith alive but it makes me wonder....

If ReTrilogy ends with Cloti, then they'll claim only the OG exists. But they also simultaneously would like a rewrite... as if they're subconsciously aware that the OG doesn't end with CA either. Because after all, didn't they think they reunited in the LS?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.................................

What's interesting is that from what I'm seeing, no CA online is really thinking of the plot beyond the end of Rebirth, and those that are are doing things like making arguments about why Aerith should have the Lifestream or Highwind sequences, two sections of the game indelibly linked to Tifa.

 

[Cloudonachocobo]

Interesting. But why would they even want a rewrite if the OG implies that CA is the endgame ship?

Yes, I know it's that they want Aerith alive but it makes me wonder....

If ReTrilogy ends with Cloti, then they'll claim only the OG exists. But they also simultaneously would like a rewrite... as if they're subconsciously aware that the OG doesn't end with CA either. Because after all, didn't they think they reunited in the LS?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.................................

They’re very good at contradicting themselves. They’ll say OG is CA, yet will complain about the story of the remake trilogy remaining faithful. They know what’s gonna happen in part 3 and are afraid of that.

 

[Cloudonachocobo]

So is there a cycle where Aerith goes through the events of Dec 9 - her death without her future self involved? Because that's more what I meant by OG rather than an Aerith who experienced the 1997 game specifically. I'd been assuming essentially a two cycle Aerith, one who went through the events of the game's plot, started going back in time and making stops here and there- Possible in reverse order to chronology- then hopped into the Aerith we would call ;ours' right at the start of Remake and that's why the Whispers start going aggro with her.
Though that doesn't fully explain where Red's future memories come from.


What's interesting is that from what I'm seeing, no CA online is really thinking of the plot beyond the end of Rebirth, and those that are are doing things like making arguments about why Aerith should have the Lifestream or Highwind sequences, two sections of the game indelibly linked to Tifa.

They want part 3 to have CA be endgame more than anything which shows they don’t care about FFVII for what it actually is. Whereas everyone else just wants to see favorite moments like Lifestream happen.

 

[Ryushikaze]

They want part 3 to have CA be endgame more than anything which shows they don’t care about FFVII for what it actually is. Whereas everyone else just wants to see favorite moments like Lifestream happen.

It's interesting to see people arguing things like "Aerith in the Ch14 deam is only sad because she knows she's about to die" when that's not even the same Aerith as the one we've been travelling with. They don't care about the story of FF7 and they don't even care about Aerith either, when you get down to it.

Also Welcome to the boards, Noel. I've seen you on Twitter here and there.

 

[Sacky]

See what happens with them saying OG is canon. Is you can just say Nah it isn't but im gonna enjoy remake aswell as OG. Then they can't say anything to that since right now they think remake trilogy is some promised happy ending they feel they deserved since 1997, Due to and i quote "final fantasy tactics" easter egg

 

[Ryushikaze]

See what happens with them saying OG is canon. Is you can just say Nah it isn't but im gonna enjoy remake aswell as OG. Then they can't say anything to that since right now they think remake trilogy is some promised happy ending they feel they deserved since 1997, Due to and i quote "final fantasy tactics" easter egg

You mean the easter egg where Cloud sees a girl that looks like Aerith, saves her from some thugs and then proceeds to not give a shit about her ever again?
And where the game talks about someone waiting for Cloud back home? Cloud's FFT cameo is kind of shitty for CA, because this is a Cloud from after Aerith dies, and his only response to seeing her doppleganger is "Well okay then, stay out of trouble, I guess."

 

[Cloudonachocobo]

It's interesting to see people arguing things like "Aerith in the Ch14 deam is only sad because she knows she's about to die" when that's not even the same Aerith as the one we've been travelling with. They don't care about the story of FF7 and they don't even care about Aerith either, when you get down to it.

Also Welcome to the boards, Noel. I've seen you on Twitter here and there.

Oh you know me?

 

[pxl_pushr]

All this talk of COLW Aerith makes me suspect that one major goal of hers was to get Zack to the LS church, or her Promised Land. That’s why she pulls in a Cloud with the maximum amount of time spent with her and she goes on a replica of her date with Zack.

Not only would this help put her own feelings to rest, it would also serve as one final attempt to separate Cloud and Zack in her own mind by seeing how Cloud differs from him in a near exact situation. Maybe the date is the gambit she mentions in COLW, and the end result is Zack being with her in the church at the end of ACC?

Almost like the reverse of Maiden, and it’d be intentionally to “summon” Zack.

 

[GamerSkull]

They’re very good at contradicting themselves. They’ll say OG is CA, yet will complain about the story of the remake trilogy remaining faithful. They know what’s gonna happen in part 3 and are afraid of that.

Yeah, that's my point. If the original is CA endgame, why even want things to change really? Especially if they believe they reunite in the Lifestream.

They can pretend ReTrilogy isn't canon if they want but there is also quite a bit of evidence that favors CT endgame in the original game as well.

 

[Hellenic]

The chances of Aerith NOT being playable to some degree in part 3 seem very slim. She never got her strongest weapon (Princess guard) or her strongest limit break (Great Gospel) and she canonically needs to obtain the latter to heal the children and Cloud in Advent Children.

They kinda have written themselves into a wall with this. They have teased Aerith having some form of playtime in part 3 doing something. But they also need her to not be in it too much or impact of loss is gone, but also other characters lose development if she gets more Who desperately need it like Vincent and Cid. So i would guess they have a Aerith Zack interlude but for 1 chapter or something?

I imagine she's gonna get a similar gameplay treatment to Zack from Rebirth, including some VR optional challenge battles too to let you play around with her kit past Rebirth.

If ReTrilogy ends with Cloti, then they'll claim only the OG exists. But they also simultaneously would like a rewrite... as if they're subconsciously aware that the OG doesn't end with CA either. Because after all, didn't they think they reunited in the LS?

They can only hope that another remake series happens in like another 30 years that might finally give them what they truly desire (probably wouldn't but hey people can dream right?).

 

[Reaper3Delta]

See what happens with them saying OG is canon. Is you can just say Nah it isn't but im gonna enjoy remake aswell as OG. Then they can't say anything to that since right now they think remake trilogy is some promised happy ending they feel they deserved since 1997, Due to and i quote "final fantasy tactics" easter egg

Can you explain that "easter egg" If you don't mind?, I played FFT like 14 years ago and stopped like halfway the game and never got to finish it.

 

[Reaper3Delta]

Oh you know me?

I have seen your posts on X too. Welcome.

 

[null]

Can you explain that "easter egg" If you don't mind?, I played FFT like 14 years ago and stopped like halfway the game and never got to finish it.

Hello, TV-san. Hello, Lamp-san.