SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Ryeleigh]

I didn't mind the whole multiple Aeriths deal at first, but the more I thought about it, the more it felt like the devs either wrote themselves in a corner cause of conflicting approaches (mainly, highlighting CT and wanting to give CA closure for its fans) or wanting to have their cake and eat it, too. It could even very well be both.

Either way, it makes her feelings a bit harder to pinpoint for certain.

I just hope that they do ZA well in P3. I don't think there were that many scenes between them in Crisis Core, compared to the two whole games that she spent with Cloud. Even if a lot of those two games consisted of mutual pining but it still isn't quite the same as seeing ZA interact with each other, as adults. But I really want them to do justice to that quote "her first love is always by her side", though I think I'm paraphrasing that. So here's manifesting that from the universe too, lol.

This piece of her is a combination of memories, hopes/dreams, personality traits, all she associates with Sector 5, the time she spent with Zack, and what she deeply hoped she could experience for herself in reality.

This got me thinking that the dream date might also be about her putting that "what if" of Cloud to rest? It ended with Cloud telling her that they're friends and her unsure what kind of like it was after all, which I hope will get its definite answer when she reunites with Zack in P3.

Also, this is kind of unrelated to the current discussion but I've seen people mock Zack for this scene so I'll just add this here:

Spoiler

The scene where he thinks about going to Hojo to help Cloud. It's obvious that he's doing it to help Cloud and Aerith because who better to ask questions from than the dude who put Cloud in the condition he's in? It's also obvious that he doesn't really want to do it (the flashback of Hojo), but he resolves to do it anyway because he doesn't know what else to do. So I don't know, seeing the bad faith comments and arguments about that scene was annoying.

Spoilered just in case. Though, I'm sure everyone here has already at least seen a playthrough of Rebirth. xD

 

[pxl_pushr]

I just hope that they do ZA well in P3. I don't think there were that many scenes between them in Crisis Core, compared to the two whole games that she spent with Cloud. Even if a lot of those two games consisted of mutual pining but it still isn't quite the same as seeing ZA interact with each other, as adults. But I really want them to do justice to that quote "her first love is always by her side", though I think I'm paraphrasing that. So here's manifesting that from the universe too, lol.


This got me thinking that the dream date might also be about her putting that "what if" of Cloud to rest? It ended with Cloud telling her that they're friends and her unsure what kind of like it was after all, which I hope will get its definite answer when she reunites with Zack in P3.

Also, this is kind of unrelated to the current discussion but I've seen people mock Zack for this scene so I'll just add this here:

Spoiler

The scene where he thinks about going to Hojo to help Cloud. It's obvious that he's doing it to help Cloud and Aerith because who better to ask questions from than the dude who put Cloud in the condition he's in? It's also obvious that he doesn't really want to do it (the flashback of Hojo), but he resolves to do it anyway because he doesn't know what else to do. So I don't know, seeing the bad faith comments and arguments about that scene was annoying.

Spoilered just in case. Though, I'm sure everyone here has already at least seen a playthrough of Rebirth. xD

That’s what makes me think Zack’s sections are very much about aspects of himself even if he’s existing in a dreamworld based around Aerith. He’s the one being tested and prodded for a majority of it.

In terms of the DD, I think hearing Cloud’s feelings (or at least the feelings of Cloud who’s working half a full deck) was one of the goals. She didn’t want to feel uncertainty towards him like she did with Zack. WE know Zack loves her unflinchingly, but she doesn’t since he vanished on her after promising to come see her. We know why, but she doesn’t.

It’s almost like her mind/heart is asking questions: “did he cherish our time like I did?” “What kind of like do I feel?” “Was he a second chance at what I felt before?”

The reunion pin is an interesting callback to Remake, but my suspicions are more a theory than anything. Could help wrap some of this up in part 3 and still allow for the “koibito” line in CoLW

I think part 3 will close that loop, though I’m not sure when. It can’t take up too much time and I can’t imagine it coming up any earlier than the middle or the final act. I want ZA to get a strong moment, but both characters being dead should mean we don’t see them every other hour.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I’m still not entirely sure we’re dealing with multiple Aerith’s as in “this” Aerith is OG Aerith or “our” Aerith is a brand new Aerith etc

I think it’s all similar to what we’ll see with Cloud in the LSS. His ego is shown through multiple Clouds that represent the pieces of his subconscious that need to be aligned in order to remake Cloud as his true self.

When you shine white light through a prism, it splits into a spectrum of colors. I take this as a visual representation of how minds work in this setting. The Aerith of the DD is simply a fragment of her, whichever fragment needed to experience this in order to align herself with the rest of Aerith.

This piece of her is a combination of memories, hopes/dreams, personality traits, all she associates with Sector 5, the time she spent with Zack, and what she deeply hoped she could experience for herself in reality.

Simplest way I’ve looked at it for now is we’re seeing Aerith setting aside the part of her that’s “Aerith, the flower girl of Sector 5” and embracing “Aerith, the last living Cetra”. You could probably split her into the same pieces as Cloud, but this is simpler in my mind.

I can see the subtle part of her story in part 3 being her accepting that she’s actually both, and it was never a choice between them. One never had to come at the cost of the other.

I’d like to think you can apply the same thinking to Zack and his sections. Him coming to terms with the different desires he felt were left unfulfilled after getting gunned down. We cover them now so we can better understand why the LSS works with Cloud and Tifa later, and what will need to happen at the end of the story.

I do think seeing Dream Aerith as distinct from Forest Aerith is still important because even if both are born from the same mind, and rejoin, they are not the same at that moment. Sort of like- if I may bring up something else nerdy for a moment- how the character Multiple Man works.

For those not familiar, Multiple Man has the power to create duplicates of himself that are distinct, fully independent beings. They share his memories and opinions, but are not mentally linked to him. When his duplicates merge back with him he retains the memories of all of them, but if one of them dies before merging, the unique memories of that duplicate are lost.

 

[Skilganon]

Nonetheless i don't really like having to deal with multiple Aeriths with these scenes. Wish it was just one and the same Aerith who travelled with us instead of doing these weird meta things with OG Aeriths or whatever.

I didn't mind the whole multiple Aeriths deal at first, but the more I thought about it, the more it felt like the devs either wrote themselves in a corner cause of conflicting approaches (mainly, highlighting CT and wanting to give CA closure for its fans) or wanting to have their cake and eat it, too. It could even very well be both.

Either way, it makes her feelings a bit harder to pinpoint for certain.

100% The idea of multiple Aeriths casts a shadow over the entire CA relationship. The two versions we see act different. Cloud even points this out, "Why are you acting so weird? This isn't you." They might as well be different people. So when Dream Aerith confesses her feelings, it isn't relevant. It isn't really closure. Beagle-Aerith's feelings are what matter.

 

[Eerie]

This is not for CA though it gives a closure to it, it is for CoLW Aerith. I think Nojima regrets writing her too Cloud-centric and she needed to go, so he linked that scene to CoLW, but he also killed her. All her worlds died (she hid there behind a maze of worlds that we see Zack going through at some point later on), so it’s safe to assume she died. I am sure she wanted more power and knowledge so she sent her younger self that since she was a kid (visions of the future), because she felt really powerless towards Sephiroth in the Lifestream.

In a way think of CoLW happening before p3 of the trilogy.

 

[eleamaya]

The hate from loud CAs in Zerith tag on Twitter made me vent to ChatGPT. It makes me so relief. It's a long chat and I talk more about CA & ZA as pairings and Aerith's feelings for both guys (because they also attack ZAs not caring about Aerith, we do care!). I copy-paste it on gdrive and share it. Sometimes I mention Cloti but it's not the main focus of the talk. I also mention Seifer X Rinoa.

Venting about Zerith on ChatGPT

Can you help me prompting the ideas of Couple Event Week? The couple name is Zack x Aerith (Zerith). And they're star-crossed lovers, Zack died first and Aerith follows later on, both are being murdered though, not suicide like Romeo x Juliet. But when they're together, they're a happy couple wit...

docs.google.com

(Actually, it starts from me asking ChatGPT to make prompt suggestion for Zerith Week. But its answer is so beautiful that make me crying so I talk more and vent)

 

[Skilganon]

Given that Cloud thinks Aerith is still alive, I think the real closure is coming in part 3. There's still things unresolved between them. Makes you wonder what the point of the dream date is.

 

[Eerie]

Still things unresolved? Like what? I think we will see what truly happened at the end of Rebirth, and we’ll get Cloud mourning her but what else is there to say? They’ve had all the time to say everything they needed, there is no promise to keep. Literally this is why this song is so sad it’s because it’s the end for Aerith and her relationships with everyone.

 

[pxl_pushr]

Given that Cloud thinks Aerith is still alive, I think the real closure is coming in part 3. There's still things unresolved between them. Makes you wonder what the point of the dream date is.

The only two things are:

Cloud acknowledgment that she’s dead: he already knows, he’s just detached from the emotions of it and going off of a delusion to keep him moving. Did the same with Zack in Nibelheim. This will be handled on the second visit to FC

Aerith never meeting the real Cloud: you may get a greeting as a goodbye, but I can’t see any more than that happening. Part of the tragedy here is that Aerith dies before getting to know him for himself. The resolution is “I can meet her there” which really means meeting all the people they’ve lost.

Dream date already gave you the answer to Cloud’s feelings: He considers her a friend, and he would like to spend more time with her.

 

[Skilganon]

Cloud acknowledgment that she’s dead: he already knows, he’s just detached from the emotions of it and going off of a delusion to keep him moving. Did the same with Zack in Nibelheim. This will be handled on the second visit to FC

This is pretty much what I'm talking about. But, referring to my previous post, we need to learn Beagle-Aerith's feelings before the end. The Aerith in the dream date was from the future(maybe), therefore we don't know our Aerith's feelings. That's why the dream date is kind of a fake-out (at least to me).

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

I think.

A few things.
I do think:
The devs are connecting this to COLW definitely.
But I do think it's also a non response. I honestly see nothing "solved" nor confirmed with the dream date regarding Aerith's romantic feelings honestly. The scene is constructed in a way where Aerith isn't sure herself of her feelings. She's not having any realization there on that specific subject other than wondering what liking she feels. She doesn't say "oh I like you but it's not liking liking" nor "I like you like you" she literally says "I wonder what kind of like this is?" "But there's a difference between liking and liking". Which one? She doesn't figure it out at that moment. And I really think people don't realize that that's no confirmation and that's why that scene may feel like having a cake and eating it too. At least in that department.

It can go either way but it really honestly doesn't tell you which she actually feels in a concrete way. Which was why I was saying I don't think any of those scenes are as much about resolving her feelings as acknowledging them. Acknowledging that she has them in the first place later on confirmed very clearly in COLWthat she had them. And giving her a farewell where she realizes this: that no matter where they stand the point is they cherish each other anyway, regardless he appreciated her regardless, he came for her regardless and she has a duty to fulfill so she will see it through regardless.

Because the bond they share is way more important than "oh do I like this guy as a potential boyfriend or not? Does he like me back or not?" That's literally not the point. That's literally not the most important question. As someone said the question is does he also cherish his time with me? Did this time spent mean as much to him as it does to me?" His answer is based on exactly that. "Next time".

So yes he wants to spend time with her, yes he cherishes her. And she's Happy with that answer. Because the point is the memories shared, the point is living and meeting people she cherishes the point is making sure the Planet is saved for the sake of those living.. because the point is until that point everyone she's loved she has lost so is it all worth it? And she realizes that yes it is that's why there's no Promises to Keep. Because she knows they'll be a next time, they'll meet again. Every bond she has made is now certain. Especially this one.

And I think that's always been the case and the intention. Because even in COWL her focus is she cherishes him and she's worried about him and she wants to stop Sephiroth.

Honestly I bet you the main point of that scene is not "okay guys well they're just friends that's the most important takeaway here" I don't even think the point is to answer what her feelings are either beyond having them. It's an Aerith arc thing more than anything.

Because especially based on Cloud's answer that's not even the focus. "Next time" "Because we're friends" "I'm coming for you" all these replies are focused on the fact it's a cherished bond. Of spending time together. Of him being there for her. Regardless of the nature of it. That's why no matter what he says no matter the affection level she is happy and accepting of it. Even in her resolution she says it.
They put it there to show that's truly what matters here. It doesn't matter if he's just her friend, or if she sees him as a boyfriend prospect and it doesn't matter what kind of like this. It matters that this is a cherished bond for both of them. And that is where they stand. That's the answer.

And so in that sense I do think the dream date helped tie some loose ends. But it's the scenes afterwards that kind of go off the rails for me because you just established all this to throw it away for a mystery suspense of keeping theories going and diluting this beautiful idea. Because we already had closure in this sense. Closure for her arc. Closure for their bond.

And now you basically Shrodinger's box her fate so that sense of closure is basically gone. And the themes highlighted all this time are pretty much ignored for shock value and generating hype than being allowed to stand on their own. To the point people are mostly just talking about the dream date in terms of theories of other worlds or arguing over proof of feelings or lack of etc when that was not really the most important part. Because the constant need to string people on and keep them guessing is making it hard to appreciate the themes that are already there. And that's where my concerns lie with this whole thing.

 

[Ryeleigh]

But I do think it's also a non response. I honestly see nothing "solved" nor confirmed with the dream date regarding Aerith's romantic feelings honestly. The scene is constructed in a way where Aerith isn't sure herself of her feelings. She's not having any realization there on that specific subject other than wondering what liking she feels. She doesn't say "oh I like you but it's not liking liking" nor "I like you like you" she literally says "I wonder what kind of like this is?" "But there's a difference between liking and liking". Which one? She doesn't figure it out at that moment.

I probably won't be able to gather my thoughts into a proper "argument" so I'm not even going to try, but to me that "liking and liking" feels like something that will get resolved when Aerith and Zack meet again. I think that from Cloud's side, the answer has already been given: "they're friends" and "there's not a thing he doesn't cherish". But I think Aerith will figure out that "liking and liking" when she finally meets Zack again. But who knows, I might be wrong.

I do agree about Schrödinger's Aerith, though. But I haven't really been feeling it for the Whispers and everything else that comes with them either.

 

[lyingbanana]

I keep asking myself what is the point of "multiple" Aeriths. Even if its one Aerith at different times and not multiple universes, I still dont understand how that services the story.

Edit: I guess my question is narratively, what is the point?

 

[Eerie]

I'm going to agree and disagree with you @LunarTarotGirl xD It's going to be a bit long so bear with me...

First, I rewatched the scene, in French and this is roughly the part that interests us:
When Cloud mentions they'll create memories, she looks happy ("Thank you, it's nice. I needed to hear it.") and smiles, but then a realisation comes to her. "You know Cloud, I care about you. But well, how to say this? It's complicated. I don't really know... what feeling I feel"
"Aerith, what's wrong? You're really weird today."
(I looked up a French let's play on YT, at around 19 minutes here, and he had a low affection scene; I'm also ignoring the blatant mistranslation "because I'm your bodyguard" instead of "because I'm your friend", especially since the VA said it cold tone when I feel it should've been more playful).

The devs are connecting this to COLW definitely.

I agree xD

I honestly see nothing "solved" nor confirmed with the dream date regarding Aerith's romantic feelings honestly. The scene is constructed in a way where Aerith isn't sure herself of her feelings. She's not having any realization there on that specific subject other than wondering what liking she feels. She doesn't say "oh I like you but it's not liking liking" nor "I like you like you" she literally says "I wonder what kind of like this is?" "But there's a difference between liking and liking". Which one? She doesn't figure it out at that moment. And I really think people don't realize that that's no confirmation and that's why that scene may feel like having a cake and eating it too. At least in that department.

Yes... and no. It's true that there is no realisation but! This is a setting up situation. Why is Aerith checking her feelings, after a romantic date? Because it's a setup for part 3. Aerith has no answer because the answer will be given with Zack; and people can see that, they're only on part 2 after all so things are not going to wrap up nicely, this is not the time for that.

Which was why I was saying I don't think any of those scenes are as much about resolving her feelings as acknowledging them. Acknowledging that she has them in the first place later on confirmed very clearly in COLW that she had them.

See, that is where you and I differ: I think this Aerith is from after CoLW. Why? Because here, she tried to voice her feelings for Cloud, but was rejected before she could (he tells her on the spot that she's his friend, that's why he wants to make more memories with her; she knows there is more to her feelings than just friends, but she also realises that maybe she doesn't know what, as everything turned wrong). In CoLW, it feels that she never had to chance to, that she came to realise her feelings as she thought about him. But the dream date, in itself, is the realisation of her strong wish to tell him about her feelings, one of the numerous things she had to tell him (it's a world where hopes, feelings, dreams come together, so this is basically it). However it's a wish that only comes in CoLW, not before, so this Aerith has to come from a time where CoLW already happened.

And giving her a farewell where she realizes this: that no matter where they stand the point is they cherish each other anyway, regardless he appreciated her regardless, he came for her regardless and she has a duty to fulfill so she will see it through regardless.

I agree with that; it's a way to show us that their bond, albeit not romantic, is important to both characters and the story. It's also a way to setup the "Aerith that lives on in everyone's hearts". They have that memory thing going on, because Aerith is about to become a memory for them, which is bittersweet if you think about it.

Because the bond they share is way more important than "oh do I like this guy as a potential boyfriend or not? Does he like me back or not?" That's literally not the point. That's literally not the most important question. As someone said the question is does he also cherish his time with me? Did this time spent mean as much to him as it does to me?" His answer is based on exactly that. "Next time".

I do think that to Aerith, this was the point until she realised that it wasn't. If that wasn't the point, then why is it that in her world, Tifa doesn't exist? The point for her was to reunite with Cloud, alone so she could have a romantic date with him. I beg of you, really, this was Aerith's point as much as giving him the white materia. She thought about saving the world, but she also thought how she wanted to be embraced by him (or she wouldn't say "sorry!" before hugging him: she knows she is overstepping there, and that's right at the end of the sequence, which shows that Aerith already knows that her feelings are romantically coded. If it was just her about hugging a dear friend before being killed, she wouldn't have to say "sorry!". It's the fact that she does it that gives you the hint that, high or low affection, things did not go her way during the moment they shared there in her dream world.

So yes he wants to spend time with her, yes he cherishes her. And she's Happy with that answer.

I agree that she is happy, she smiles and says that she needed to hear it and I believe it's true. But also she makes a face right after as she realises that it won't go anywhere else and starts to reconsider her feelings for Cloud in the light of the whole date plus what just happened in the church. To Aerith, it was definitely more important than what she let on.

Honestly I bet you the main point of that scene is not "okay guys well they're just friends that's the most important takeaway here" I don't even think the point is to answer what her feelings are either beyond having them. It's an Aerith arc thing more than anything.

I agree it's Aerith's arc but Aerith's arc does not end with Cloud, it ends with "at all times, her first love is by her side" which is deeply important to understand that this scene is a hyphen between her CoLW self and her reunion with Zack. This Aerith definitely, definitely hasn't reunited with Zack yet. But it was important as a scene to reevaluate her own feelings, both for Cloud, and implicitly for Zack that we keep seeing in this scene. The whole thing isn't very subtle, to be honest.
In a more meta way, this is definitely a setup for memories that link them all, how the Lifestream is made of memories, how her memories of Cloud brought him there etc. As Cloud said, it's not only Aerith who's weird, it's everyone; because those are all memories of people Aerith knew but made sure they'd all act like that when the world would end. It's I think going to get used against the real people and how they act in front of the upcoming end of their planet (aka Meteor).

And so in that sense I do think the dream date helped tie some loose ends. But it's the scenes afterwards that kind of go off the rails for me because you just established all this to throw it away for a mystery suspense of keeping theories going and diluting this beautiful idea. Because we already had closure in this sense. Closure for her arc. Closure for their bond.

You know at first I wasn't really happy with the following scenes: you get the date (CA closure), then Aerith tells Cloud goodbye another time in the Sleeping Forest, like in the OG, then she fights Sephiroth with him, then she tells him goodbye again.

Like, that's a lot of goodbyes, are all of these necessary, especially when the first one closes literally the CA chapter?

Also, Aerith is definitely aware of the dream. There's no escaping it, because she knew about the white materia, and she knew about it before because I still think she's the one who sent her Lifestream self Cloud thanks to the key Cloud gave to Sephiroth. So she also knows about the outcome, which makes one wonder just how much she still knows during the whole game? I surely hope that things got unlocked at the ToA and not before, or else it'd mean she kept lying until then... which I don't think is the devs' goal. But it also means that this Aerith, contrarily to her future self, already knows something her future self was unaware of at the time of dying (give me back Doctor Who, the writing is tighter for future stuff).

So when she tells Cloud goodbye, she already knows where they stand. But she's still worried about him, and decided to pray for everyone - I think that's the missing link for many. She went from very Cloud-centric in the dream date to "for everyone" in her prayer because her CoLW self was Cloud-centric, but "our" Aerith always had developped more "for everyone" and the beginning of her being Cloud-centric (starting her GS date) literally has just been killed by this dream date.

When she comes back, Sephiroth aknowledges her. Why? It's one of the two ways for the devs to show that CoLW Aerith doesn't exist anymore: she's been killed by Sephiroth (and all her worlds crumble), but he didn't think that him killing "our" Aerith... would mean she'd come back, even more powerful because she has finally her missing knowledge. At the end of the fight, we see her back to back with Cloud but... Cloud doesn't move at all, doesn't aknowledge her... because she is not there. Cloud doesn't feel her hand either because she's dead and he can't feel her as she's a ghost, either because... she's a figment of his imagination and maybe has even been that for the whole fight. I personally took it that he can't see her anymore as she's dead and can't feel her because I think it's "our" Aerith telling him goodbye, giving CA the ultimate closure.

As for the last scene, I still think that when Cloud looks and focuses, he sees her (imaginary Aerith powered by Jenova, including their whole conversation which is a show of how Cloud sees Aerith, not how Aerith herself is), but when he doesn't we see the real Aerith as a ghost who tours Yuffie, Tifa and Red. What is going on in her head as she sees them mourning her, while also knowing the future? It's hard to know, really.

So I don't really see it as diluting it anymore, those are interesting scenes to think about but the fact that their deep meaning is hidden to any newcomer and even to old fans is a bit eyebrow raising to me. These are definitely threads for Aerith in p3, as for Cloud well, it already shows a lot of things we knew but are going to get developped a lot.

 

[Skilganon]

Because the bond they share is way more important than "oh do I like this guy as a potential boyfriend or not? Does he like me back or not?" That's literally not the point. That's literally not the most important question. As someone said the question is does he also cherish his time with me? Did this time spent mean as much to him as it does to me?" His answer is based on exactly that. "Next time".

First of all, I liked your entire post. However, I do think it's the writer's intention for the player to wonder exactly what Cloud means to Aerith in this moment. Otherwise, they wouldn't have had Aerith say the "Liking or liking" line. The player's going to wonder if her feelings are romantic because that's the ambivalence Aerith is expressing.

It's similar to when Jessie asks Cloud if he and Tifa are close. Also when Aerith asks Cloud if Tifa is his girlfriend. So yeah, Cloud cherishes all his friends, but the romantic nature of certain relationships is still important.

So the question is "why?" Like @Eerie said, I think it's to set up relationships with Zack and Tifa respectively. I do think they are going to have Cloud's feelings for Aerith remain somewhat ambiguous. I've always disliked the platonic/romantic binary. The CA relationship is rather unique and I don't think it needs to be put into a box in order to explain it.

I keep asking myself what is the point of "multiple" Aeriths. Even if its one Aerith at different times and not multiple universes, I still dont understand how that services the story.

Edit: I guess my question is narratively, what is the point?

Good question, I've been wondering that myself.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

First of all, I liked your entire post. However, I do think it's the writer's intention for the player to wonder exactly what Cloud means to Aerith in this moment. Otherwise, they wouldn't have had Aerith say the "Liking or liking" line. The player's going to wonder if her feelings are romantic because that's the ambivalence Aerith is expressing.

It's similar to when Jessie asks Cloud if he and Tifa are close. Also when Aerith asks Cloud if Tifa is his girlfriend. So yeah, Cloud cherishes all his friends, but the romantic nature of certain relationships is still important.

So the question is "why?" Like @Eerie said, I think it's to set up relationships with Zack and Tifa respectively. I do think they are going to have Cloud's feelings for Aerith remain somewhat ambiguous. I've always disliked the platonic/romantic binary. The CA relationship is rather unique and I don't think it needs to be put into a box in order to explain it.

Good question, I've been wondering that myself.

Yeah when I say that's not the point I think that in the beginning yes there is that intention to question things. But I think also Aerith at the end of this realizes that there's no easy answer to her own feelings in the moment, just knowing where they stand is good enough for her. She goes in wondering what these feelings could mean but as I said in that moment there's no clear cut answer and we see despite that she accepts that there may never be because what matters is the time they spent together.

And as people said it does set things up for later with Zack for example. I think that's definitely one of the writers intentions. And she could find her answer later on and have the same question with Zack too. And find her answer there too.

But I also think it goes way beyond that. It's not just set up. In the moment she's with Cloud and this is about her bond with him specifically. She wonders about feelings about him specifically and about his answer about her bond with him. And basically she's realizing that the nature of that bond is less important than the time spent. She's conflicted sure, but I pointed out she moves past that to accepts the bond as is. Because up to that point she's shown she isn't sure if he cherishes their bond the same way. In her resolution she's literally surprised he is worried that she got kidnapped. So more than anything I think she needed to hear from him that this bond is as important to him as it is to her.

All that other stuff I feel is in the background sure but is secondary in this particular moment. Like does she want to confess maybe, but then notice how the scene doesn't even have her actually confess and how it doesn't linger on the topic even when he answers her and even when she brings up liking. Because there's just a lot more important things going on.

And that's why I say it's not the point. Yeah I think a lot of these scenes really among a lot of these characters are more about bonds first, everything else later.

At least how it seems to me.

I do think that to Aerith, this was the point until she realised that it wasn't. If that wasn't the point, then why is it that in her world, Tifa doesn't exist? The point for her was to reunite with Cloud, alone so she could have a romantic date with him. I beg of you, really, this was Aerith's point as much as giving him the white materia. She thought about saving the world, but she also thought how she wanted to be embraced by him (or she wouldn't say "sorry!" before hugging him

So here's my hottest take on that. I don't think Aerith's intention here was to actually confess or get any romantic gestures in return. I can see it as she wanted to know how she felt sure and she probably thought it would have been nice for if Cloud did buy her a gift for example etc because yes she likes him but I still don't think it was this whole grand plan. I think yes she wanted one last date but not really bc she thought anything would come from it. Which is why she accepts whatever he says so easily. She was again surprised here and happy to find Cloud does want to see her again, even though their won't be any next time because of her fate.

I also will point out this Aerith always confuses me because it seemed to me OG and COWL Aerith were more sure of their feelings than this one who is literally wondering what she feels. Which is so different from both COWL and "I want to meet you" that I can't really get behind it. So if she's COWL which I think she is she is definitely acting weird and not her usual self.
But I do think if she doesn't know what she feels I definitely don't think she had any sort of grand plan beyond giving him the White Materia and was more indulging in the moment because of said feelings. Other than maybe some nice memories and candy in terms of her wish fulfillment but I don't think she expected anything to happen to actually be disappointed by. She has definitely conflicted feelings hence her very uncertain and honestly every unlike her usual self response.

But considering every time since Remake when Cloud voices even concern for her she is surprised. I just can't see it as she was actually expecting anything from him here if she's surprised even by that. She basically tells him to humor her too.
So I stand by her main goal was first her mission but because of her feelings she did try to indulge in that dream for a bit. But her reaction isn't the broken up reaction you'd expect if she really had any expectations at all. I don't know about the hug. I think she's saying goodbye but because of her feelings is trying not to cross any boundaries. I don't think she was fantasizing of hugging him in that sense before this but it's a goodbye and her last chance to say goodbye , so a more impulsive action than again a planned one.

 

[Eerie]

I do think they are going to have Cloud's feelings for Aerith remain somewhat ambiguous.

Cloud literally says he wants to spend time with her because she’s his friend. Literally he cannot be clearer about his feelings for her. The fact that some translations (namely English and French) botched this is not my problem. He looks uncomfortable enough when she tries to voice her feelings.

Which is so different from both COWL and "I want to meet you" that I can't really get behind it.

See I disagree because I think that before Cloud says she’s his friend, there is no hesitation from her. She is 100% sure that she wants to spend romantic time with him. She brought him to the church, an important place to her, because in her head she wanted to voice her romantic feelings to him. It’s only when she realises that she’s only a friend to him but that he still cherishes her that she becomes uncertain and that maybe romance isn’t the point. When she starts talking about her feelings, Cloud clearly becomes uncomfortable, which also might have stopped her.

The hug is clearly her saying goodbye to Cloud but also to her feelings for him, I think. She’s overstepping his boundaries because her feelings are not returned, hence why she says sorry.

As I see it, Aerith most probably is in a tunnel vision after her death for Cloud: she thinks she is romantically interested, which maybe she is maybe she isn’t, but at this point she’s spent several months trying to move on from Zack so she focuses on the fact that Cloud is important to her - which, he is, regardless of the nature of her feelings for him. But since she is in a tunnel vision, it also means that she thinks her feelings are romantic, that she loves him as koi. The whole date and church scenes are about showing the player that maybe Aerith has different feelings than what she believes herself, sending back to her resolution where she wishes to not fall for Cloud and the whole illusion theme with CA: maybe not only Cloud’s feelings for her are an illusion (since it’s the player’s input), but also her own feelings for him are also an illusion to herself.

 

[LunarTarotGirl]

She brought him to the church, an important place to her, because in her head she wanted to voice her romantic feelings to him. It’s only when she realises that she’s only a friend to him but that he still cherishes her that she becomes uncertain and that maybe romance isn’t the point. When she starts talking about her feelings, Cloud clearly becomes uncomfortable, which also might have stopped her

See I still don't think she was actually planning to confess. For many reasons.

I do think was going to say goodbye, give him the materia. And in the meantime yes get wishfullfilment of spending time with him like the date she wished she could have and get a goodbye gift. But it's all very final. With a constant reminder of her fate the entire time. And nothing really indicates to me she ever planned on going farther than that. I think she was bringing him there to give him the White Materia because that is what she rushed to do.

Especially when she's surprised he wants to see her again and in the resolution she's surprised he is worried about her. So that's why I really don't think she expected him to hear a confession if she keeps getting surprised over these basic things. She tells him to play along too. But playing along indicates it's just for the moment.

So in that case what would confessing serve her?
It would be confessing just for the moment and when she knows times running out.

Especially if the intention is to let him know her feelings when she's running out of time.

Also there is the fact I just can't get my head around that if she was going to confess then she just took his answer way too well. She is not broken up over it for more than one second like someone who is about to confess would be and seems to be frustrated more with not knowing how she feels than his actual response. That's why I don't think she expected anything from him from the start because she so easily accepts the situation. She also easily voices her I really like you which I is as close to a confession as we were going to get.

So I don't see what it would benefit her to confess to someone whose response she is clearly not really phased by.

I don't know. To me it just doesn't add up if that's the case.

As for COWL. I see it this way. Koibito means beloved that's why it's translated to for she had loved him. This sentence to me sounds like these are feelings she's accepted and made peace with and now she's more worried about her mission and Geostigma than her love life.

So I don't see the need to confess.

 

[Maidenofwar]

It's interesting to me how different interpretations can be heheh, see to me when Aerith said "I really like you" Cloud's immediate reaction, he looked shocked/stunned, like it was a wonder someone would say that to him, for me, I didn't feel uncomfortable.

 

[Eerie]

So in that case what would confessing serve her?

This to me is the moment where we go "ah, she is going to confess" because she starts getting nervous (hence the camera on her hands, what's more she's hiding them), and she starts as such but as she speaks she realises it's different so her tone changes.

The more I think about this date, the more I wonder if, rather than wanting to say goodbye to Cloud, it was more her own way of gathering courage for what was to come. So this would fit with her wanting to confess - hell I'd even argue that when she starts being nervous she's also gathering her courage to talk about her feelings to Cloud - but knowing that in the end, it wouldn't go anywhere.

@Maidenofwar it's the way he blinks fast that shows his discomfort to me, until he finally goes "uh wait up, what's wrong with Aerith?". I don't think he's really surprised - he just senses that her half baked confession aside, there is something wrong with her and he gets worried (he's not wrong). But the idea of being confessed by his best friend's girlfriend is certainly not a comfortable position for him.

 

[Skilganon]

What made that scene particularly emotional for me was just how oblivious Cloud is. This Aerith has already died/knows she will die. Cloud doesn't suspect a thing. So when Aerith says, "I really like you" I always get chills. The delivery of that line is phenomenal. But juxtaposed with Cloud's confusion, the whole situation becomes that much more tragic. We know Aerith is probably going to die, we know she has only a short time to say what's on her mind. So when she has this one chance to sum up their relationship, to tell Cloud exactly what he meant to her, the character who always seemed bright, cheerful, witty, now at the end of things can't find the right words. It's like we're already feeling the loss with her.

I know I said earlier I wish they didn't have the dream date... maybe I'm contradicting myself.