SPOILERS LTD Remake — It's like New Coke except ... no, it's exactly like New Coke

[Gym Leader Devil]

Inexorable Inevitability is the name of the game.

Another excellent band name. I'm thinking something experimental, like industrial metal with a theremin added in and a really weird counterpoint baseline that's oddly low in the mix. Signature song: Pink Hell is on Fire (Who Brought the Marshmallows?)

Fair. Pay no attention to how I'm sailing uphill across dry land somehow.

We're this literal rather than metaphorical, I'd guess you put wheels under the ship

Ba-dum-tish

I took will be here all week and longer ladies, gents, and those of nonstandard gender identity. Try the squid guy pasta, and we'll be back for our next set in five.

I mean, we were very much infested for a time.

I'm picturing TLS as a tented apartment structure, with you in an exterminator's jumpsuit.

A card game I love has said "We cannot for legal reasons ever admit to looking at fan created content and we HATE THAT FACT."

That sounds lovable.

We need more of Cloud having to deal with Yuffie and Kyrie at the same time.

On the surface he looks cold and annoyed, inside he's melting and grinding ear to ear.

Like the homage put into the test enemies they put into rebirth. Perfectly reasonable statement about "escaped due to developer oversight" in their bio, but for those in the know...

Wonderful example. It's that kind of thing that makes folk what get it feel special, but does no real harm if it slips past you.

Ahh, homebrew settings. The one I made where the entire planet was covered by a fog that allowed sea creatures to swim through sky as easily as water was a fun one.

Oh that's good. Nothing like the thought of a Kraken attack 200 miles inland to keep people from sleeping soundly. Though I must ask, could gill breathing creatures survive in the sky as well? And how does this interact with player races with a swim speed?

Most likely. In a previous job I had the unofficial duty of "getting the manager's reference" because no one else did.

I'm jealous, I got the unofficial duty of "reminding the managers that making extremely sexual jokes at work is inviting an eventual sexual harassment suit" every friggin' day. They weren't even fun or witty.

I'll make sure the credit goes elsewhere.

See that you do, I like my kindness to surprise people and possibly make them suspicious.

Yep. So's Logan. I'd be fine with him giving up the name and taking a new one, but editorial seems to want them sharing it.

Weird. And yeah, Logan's been around so long he's had who knows how many names. You'd think he'd be chill to try out a new one.

It is odd he's the only member of the NY Spider-crew without a unique monicker.

True. At least he's not famous out of universe under a name he'd never use in universe. Poor "Spider-Gwen," she still using Ghost-Spider?

I really wish they'd gone with the Ben was really a time-displaced Pete idea and had the Clone saga end with the Cosmic entity resposible (Might have been mephisto) picking Pete up, throwing him back in time, and "Ben" suddenly remembering everything.

That does in fact sound loads better than the Clone Saga. I wonder if Peter and MJ got to keep the baby in that draft.

Cable, perhaps? Color scheme's different but themes are fairly on point.

Cable's not half bad. Even the techno-organic virus sorta fits as the dangerous monster that has to be kept under control ala Chaos.

You notice we're heavily drawing from X-books? Outside of Spidey and Shellhead, it's all X-characters up in here.

Not even a Sinister/Hodge fusion wants a Sinister/Hodge fusion to exist.

That would be a smoking pile of self-hatred.

You could always go to the ruins of Old New York, or the lost city of Atlanta.

Ooo rent free mobile apartments. Now we're back on track.

Indeed. You'd think with the idea of Balance that eventually they'd realizing it was okay to be a little less of a pure goody two shoes.

It always bothered me, you'd have books and comments mics clearly show that even legendary Jedi weren't as saintly and perfect as they wanted the Galaxy to see, but they'd never let them explore it.

The Sith creed is still superior though. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to power, power leads to victory.

I'll believe it. Never played forces.

It's a rarity for me, a game that lets me create an in universe OC that has little to no interest from me. Infinite was the new super-powered Eggman minion that Sonic jobs to at the beginning of the game only to in turn do nothing but be cartoonishly evil and job to everyone for the rest of the game.

I always pretend the opposite. Area we have no information on are actually totally fine and dandy. Thriving, even. Because it's silly.

Unless it's not, as if national stereotypes are to be believed Australians would be just too damn tough and jolly to go extinct. Fallout deals heavily in deconstructing or lamp shading national stereotypes. Ergo it follows that Australians ended up being what The Master wanted Super Mutants to be just by being. Boom, thriving.

Or make absurd lore, like the singular Florida Man who is actually a beacon of wisdom, mercy, and compassion.

Good old Florida Man. I'm so glad I have a family agreement to never approach Florida.

I was thinking Trauma center, but Surgeon Sim works just as well. Maybe get both in there somehow.

I think that's a gap that could be bridged. Man I was bad at Trauma Center though.

Now do you want to be on tripping duty or sharpie duty?

I'll do the tripping, I have an excellent plan. I just need to shout "Hi Aerith" and wave at someone behind him and take the shot when he spins in that direction. Besides I trust your attention to detail to get us candy skull markings that really appear to be laden with symbolism. We're gonna need pink sharpies.

 

[Maidenofwar]

Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth Confirms What Cloud Was Saying at the End of the Game

Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth's co-director provides clarity on what Cloud was saying at the end of the game, sparking discussions among players.

gamerant.com

Maybe some wanted to see Cloud crying with tears streaming down his face and some wanted the speech ... so they just kind of decided to try ... both?

Anyway I do still find things emotional personally, and even some streamers cry.

 

[GamerSkull]

I pretty much called what Cloud was mouthing at the end. It does mean that it on some level he is aware Aerith died.

 

[Sacky]

I pretty much called what Cloud was mouthing at the end. It does mean that it on some level he is aware Aerith died.

I do wish they would just stick to what they want to do instead of trying to please people though

 

[nepheneethedestroyer]

I think one of the things I'm most interested to see how they play out is the fact that compared while Cloud's primary issue in the OG heading into where we are now was one of self-identity and doubting if he was real vs. a created Sephiroth clone, now we have, seemingly, two separate issues to deal with. One being the self-identity/fractured sense of self issue, and the other being the Aerith is alive "delusion" (I honestly have some doubts as to whether it is Cloud's mind creating the delusion, or if it's Aerith "shielding" him somehow). I do think it would be weird to solve both issues in the Lifestream sequence, but having two fixing Cloud's head sequences also seems kind of excessive...I don't know.

 

[GamerSkull]

I think one of the things I'm most interested to see how they play out is the fact that compared while Cloud's primary issue in the OG heading into where we are now was one of self-identity and doubting if he was real vs. a created Sephiroth clone, now we have, seemingly, two separate issues to deal with. One being the self-identity/fractured sense of self issue, and the other being the Aerith is alive "delusion" (I honestly have some doubts as to whether it is Cloud's mind creating the delusion, or if it's Aerith "shielding" him somehow). I do think it would be weird to solve both issues in the Lifestream sequence, but having two fixing Cloud's head sequences also seems kind of excessive...I don't know.

I think the Aerith “delusion” will be solved at the Northern Cave when Cloud has his breakdown. We’ll still get the same scene but this business with Aerith will also be dealt with there. At that point, Cloud will be at his lowest point.

Once that is taken care of, we’ll be dealing with his self-identity as normal in the Lifestream sequence.

 

[LNK]

I pretty much called what Cloud was mouthing at the end. It does mean that it on some level he is aware Aerith died.

For sure. My interpretation is he knows deep down she's dead, but his been gaslit so much by Sephiroth that he's unintentionally blocked it out

 

[nars305]

or if it's Aerith "shielding" him somehow).

I feel like if I had to pick a theory I want to pick this one. If Sephiroth can manipulate the lifestream and appear to Cloud, I like the idea of Aerith being able to do the same, as she seems to be able to do anyway.

The “lifestream magic” stuff floats around her when she tells Clouds it’s okay and makes him stop crying. I like to think that’s not Cloud’s delusion but Aerith TRYING to reach Cloud again and have him not blame himself.

As opposed to delusion, like I said, the lifestream wispies float around her, so I feel like some power was at play instead.

 

[Sacky]

I think the Aerith “delusion” will be solved at the Northern Cave when Cloud has his breakdown. We’ll still get the same scene but this business with Aerith will also be dealt with there. At that point, Cloud will be at his lowest point.

Once that is taken care of, we’ll be dealing with his self-identity as normal in the Lifestream sequence.

I think Sephiroth will use Aeriths death aswell as Nibelhiem obviously but also show the party and Cloud Gongaga with him attacking Tifa and all this will break him. The rest of the team don't know what happened at Gongaga fully

 

[Yoru]

I feel like if I had to pick a theory I want to pick this one. If Sephiroth can manipulate the lifestream and appear to Cloud, I like the idea of Aerith being able to do the same, as she seems to be able to do anyway.

I don't know... Cloud see Sephiroth because he literally has his cells in him. It's not really a LS shenanigan. That's why Cloud is so important to Sephiroth. Bro is a Horcrux.

 

[nars305]

I don't know... Cloud see Sephiroth because he literally has his cells in him. It's not really a LS shenanigan. That's why Cloud is so important to Sephiroth. Bro is a Horcrux.

Even when Sephiroth seems to be able to go to the other worlds on his own? I can’t remember if they all were in connection to Cloud.

I was also thinking more along the lines of Advent Children, where Cloud could be around Aerith, unless that’s more of just a creation of his inner thoughts.

 

[Yoru]

I was also thinking more along the lines of Advent Children, where Cloud could be around Aerith, unless that’s more of just a creation of his inner thoughts.

Staff itw is kinda in that sense yes.

 

[Stiggie]

I think the Aerith “delusion” will be solved at the Northern Cave when Cloud has his breakdown. We’ll still get the same scene but this business with Aerith will also be dealt with there. At that point, Cloud will be at his lowest point.

Once that is taken care of, we’ll be dealing with his self-identity as normal in the Lifestream sequence.

My take on this is as follows.
We have certain storybeats in the OG, and thematic concepts that apply to them.

There is the concrete plotpoint of Clouds psyche breaking
There is the concrete plotpoint of Clouds psyche being restored
We have inner story of Cloud no longer knowing who he is
We have the inner story of Cloud losing Tifas faith in him.

And if we simplify this we have a time of Clouds situation worsening, the moment of climax where things are at their worst and he breaks, a timespan where Cloud is broken, then a moment of healing and revelation that gives Cloud the power to deal with reality.

In general we should expect moments to fall into the area where they fit. For instance, post lifestream, when Cloud has the strength to deal with reality, he should no longer have to come to grips with Aeriths death. If a scene happens post lifestream where Cloud confronts Aerith it will be with him already in a state of acceptance of that fact.

That means that the realization of Aeriths death can essentially take 2 forms.
1: it is a moment of breaking where the realization of Aeriths death is the catalyst for Cloud breaking. In this version he sees what really happened prior to breaking, and post lifestream we'd see him accept Aeriths death.

2: It is a moment of accepting, where the mystery of what's going on with Aerith as well as Clouds identity issues cause Cloud to break, and it is through accepting the past and what really happened with Tifa in Nibelheim that he is able to honestly face what happened with Aerith. Which would probably place the scene where we see Aeriths death being a part of the lifestream sequence itself, with Tifa guiding him or something.

My gut feeling is that the first is more likely.

 

[Yoru]

I know it sounds sus' from a Cloti POV, but I really hope they don't use the LS sequence to give a bone to every sides of the fandom. If Aerith is really dead, I hope they don't push her to much into the OG story. That's what scares me the most about Part 3. That they don't really dare to go all the way and to keep everyone happy, keep bringing her in again and again.

That doesn't mean I hate Aerith and want to get rid of her. But if she's really gone, she needs to do things on her own and really start to help Zack.

 

[GamerSkull]

My take on this is as follows.
We have certain storybeats in the OG, and thematic concepts that apply to them.

There is the concrete plotpoint of Clouds psyche breaking
There is the concrete plotpoint of Clouds psyche being restored
We have inner story of Cloud no longer knowing who he is
We have the inner story of Cloud losing Tifas faith in him.

And if we simplify this we have a time of Clouds situation worsening, the moment of climax where things are at their worst and he breaks, a timespan where Cloud is broken, then a moment of healing and revelation that gives Cloud the power to deal with reality.

In general we should expect moments to fall into the area where they fit. For instance, post lifestream, when Cloud has the strength to deal with reality, he should no longer have to come to grips with Aeriths death. If a scene happens post lifestream where Cloud confronts Aerith it will be with him already in a state of acceptance of that fact.

That means that the realization of Aeriths death can essentially take 2 forms.
1: it is a moment of breaking where the realization of Aeriths death is the catalyst for Cloud breaking. In this version he sees what really happened prior to breaking, and post lifestream we'd see him accept Aeriths death.

2: It is a moment of accepting, where the mystery of what's going on with Aerith as well as Clouds identity issues cause Cloud to break, and it is through accepting the past and what really happened with Tifa in Nibelheim that he is able to honestly face what happened with Aerith. Which would probably place the scene where we see Aeriths death being a part of the lifestream sequence itself, with Tifa guiding him or something.

My gut feeling is that the first is more likely.

Yeah, I think it will likely be the first of those too.

But it will be in addition to Tifa basically losing faith in him as well.

All the dominoes will begin to fall.

 

[abzy1200]

That means that the realization of Aeriths death can essentially take 2 forms.
1: it is a moment of breaking where the realization of Aeriths death is the catalyst for Cloud breaking. In this version he sees what really happened prior to breaking, and post lifestream we'd see him accept Aeriths death.

2: It is a moment of accepting, where the mystery of what's going on with Aerith as well as Clouds identity issues cause Cloud to break, and it is through accepting the past and what really happened with Tifa in Nibelheim that he is able to honestly face what happened with Aerith. Which would probably place the scene where we see Aeriths death being a part of the lifestream sequence itself, with Tifa guiding him or something.

My gut feeling is that the first is more likely.

See, this is where my original worries came from, shoving Aerith into Cloud and Tifa moments will devalue said moments from an LTD perspective.

Therefore it adds ambiguity and only makes more fuel for Cleriths to use.

Fuck sake.

 

[GamerSkull]

See, this is where my original worries came from, shoving Aerith into Cloud and Tifa moments will devalue said moments from an LTD perspective.

Therefore it adds ambiguity and only makes more fuel for Cleriths to use.

Fuck sake.

To be fair, Aerith showing up as a flashback in the LS sequence could still happen while still making it a Cloti moment. It’s not impossible. She’s not actually gonna show up to help.

However, I don’t think it should… nor do I think it will.

That’s why I expect the Aerith stuff to come to a head when Cloud loses it at the Northern Cave. And then Tifa can help him piece himself together later like normal.

 

[abzy1200]

To be fair, Aerith showing up as a flashback in the LS sequence could still happen while still making it a Cloti moment. It’s not impossible. She’s not actually gonna show up to help.

However, I don’t think it should… nor do I think it will.

That’s why I expect the Aerith stuff to come to a head when Cloud loses it at the Northern Cave. And then Tifa can help him piece himself together later like normal.

But then it makes a Clerith argument of "Look! Cloud didn't want to accept her death and lost his mind when he realised she was gone, he didn't do that for Tifa in Gongaga"

So fucking annoying. I can practically smell the twitter posts about it already.

 

[Yoru]

To be fair, Aerith showing up as a flashback in the LS sequence could still happen while still making it a Cloti moment. It’s not impossible. She’s not actually gonna show up to help.

However, I don’t think it should… nor do I think it will.

That’s why I expect the Aerith stuff to come to a head when Cloud loses it at the Northern Cave. And then Tifa can help him piece himself together later like normal.

Thing is... even a flashback has nothing to do here I think. Cloud knows about loss. He experienced it again and again. His mom is dead. Avalanche is dead. Sure he loved Aerith but I don't see it as a break point. I don't know. Maybe they'll make it look good and I'll experienced it in full and will agree to their vision, but for now... meh. Aerith death has never been the FF7 main plot. I just want to let it go now and see something else.

I just don't like it when you overdo it.

 

[GamerSkull]

But then it makes a Clerith argument of "Look! Cloud didn't want to accept her death and lost his mind when he realised she was gone, he didn't do that for Tifa in Gongaga"

So fucking annoying. I can practically smell the twitter posts about it already.

Well, you can’t really stop hardcore shippers. They’ll do that even if Aerith doesn’t appear.

Thing is... even a flashback has nothing to do here I think. Cloud knows about loss. He experienced it again and again. His mom is dead. Avalanche is dead. Sure he loved Aerith but I don't see it as a break point. I don't know. Maybe they'll make it look good and I'll experienced it in full and will agree to their vision, but for now... meh. Aerith death has never been the FF7 main plot. I just want to let it go now and see something else.

I just don't like it when you overdo it.

I think the Lifestream will primarily focus on Cloud’s past in Nibelheim like it does in the OG, so Aerith probably won’t show up.

They’re already setting it up with the infantryman from Cloud’s version of the story.

 

[Yoru]

Maybe a hot take and people will be pissed but for me Cloud never had a problem letting Aerith go. I'm sorry but in OG, she died and that's that. The team is sad, they "burry" her and they hardly talk about it until the end. It's the same with Advent Children. He never had a problem accepting her death. What depresses him is feeling useless and unable to save the people he loves. He couldn't save the people he loved before, and he still can't now. Basically, according to him, he hasn't evolved and is back to being a teenager lacking confidence. That's why he feels useless and undeserving of happiness. That's why he's looking for forgiveness.

Obviously they're changing things with Rebirth. Aerith became something too big to ignore. And I'm pretty sure they're gonna bring her there and there. I'm not totally okay with that. But whatever. I still think she shouldn't be here for the LS. If they really wanna push it, she should just be the one guiding Tifa to Cloud. But stay at the front door.

 

[Sacky]

Maybe a hot take and people will be pissed but for me Cloud never had a problem letting Aerith go. I'm sorry but in OG, she died and that's that. The team is sad, they "burry" her and they hardly talk about it until the end. It's the same with Advent Children. He never had a problem accepting her death. What depresses him is feeling useless and unable to save the people he loves. He couldn't save the people he loved before, and he still can't now. Basically, according to him, he hasn't evolved and is back to being a teenager lacking confidence. That's why he feels useless and undeserving of happiness. That's why he's looking for forgiveness.

Obviously they're changing things with Rebirth. Aerith became something to big to ignore. And I'm pretty sure they're gonna bring her there and there. I'm not totally okay with that. But whatever. I still think she shouldn't be here for the LS. If they really wanna push it, she should just be the one guiding Tifa to Cloud. But stay at the front door.

I don't think she or a flashback of her will be in the lifestream at all and the main reason is That Whole sequence is meant to be a celebration of real Cloud coming back, showing he doesn't need to be a Solider to be a hero. Its the biggest hype and feel good moment of the whole game after so much angst and suffering the characters go through. To have that moment be where Cloud starts grieving is not tonally correct. It doesn't actually help him at all to know about the death here since hes meant to not feel like he failed to piece his mind back together. Theres already so many Cloud and Tifa memories and possibly new ones to go through by the fact Seventh Heaven and Stargazer are seen in the lifestream and possibly a fight sequence since Sephiroths Whispers are interfering. Instead it would be much better if after Clouds mind is fixed when we go back to Forgotten Capital he sees the death in full and then gets to grieve, Either that or it happens earlier at crater

 

[GamerSkull]

I don’t think we have much to worry about regarding the LS sequence. The devs have repeatedly stated it’s like their favorite part and they understand why. Not to mention the copious amounts of doubling down on why Cloud wants to join Soldier. And the fact that Rebirth has quite a bit of CT all tells me that they aren’t gonna shaft Tifa in her big moment.

 

[Stiggie]

For fun, can we figure out how many days there are in between gongaga and Aeriths death?

I'd love to know the time frame between when Aerith admits to still having feelings for Zack, and her supposedly, according to Clerith. Having totally replaced him for Cloud.

We presumably have an evening in gongaga, which Cloud spends with Tifa. (Also where Aerith witnesses Cloud almost killing her best friend)
Then they go to Cosmo canyon where Cloud potentially shouts at Aerith and nothing else of note happens. One night is spent there. Next day they go to nibelheim, where Cloud talks about sitting on the water tower simping over Tifa, and then they split up. And I think they don't even spend an evening there do they? After that it's off to the gold saucer where Cloud potentially kisses Tifa, which then leads to the temple the next morning where once again Cloud and Aerith are separated. Am I missing anything? So essentially 3 days.

 

[GamerSkull]

For fun, can we figure out how many days there are in between gongaga and Aeriths death?

I'd love to know the time frame between when Aerith admits to still having feelings for Zack, and her supposedly, according to Clerith. Having totally replaced him for Cloud.

We presumably have an evening in gongaga, which Cloud spends with Tifa. (Also where Aerith witnesses Cloud almost killing her best friend)
Then they go to Cosmo canyon where Cloud potentially shouts at Aerith and nothing else of note happens. One night is spent there. Next day they go to nibelheim, where Cloud talks about sitting on the water tower simping over Tifa, and then they split up. And I think they don't even spend an evening there do they? After that it's off to the gold saucer where Cloud potentially kisses Tifa, which then leads to the temple the next morning where once again Cloud and Aerith are separated. Am I missing anything? So essentially 3 days.

I would say your guess is pretty decent. I would say 3 or 4 days tops, maybe a couple more if you like to think some sidequest-related things caused a couple of days to pass (in an off-screen manner). Definitely less than a week.

Also, I'm not sure how aware the party is that Cloud almost murdered her. In fact, I can easily believe Tifa did not tell anyone, and they maybe assumed she fell because of the Whispers. But who knows...

Another thing to note is, NPTK was written directly after Tifa tells Aerith that Cloud remembered Zack. Which I believe is earlier in the night to the Gondola dates.