LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[Isabella]

Zack's death and Aerith's death are hardly identical. There's nothing he could have done for Zack. I think his guilt with regard to Zack comes more from not fulfilling his promise to make Zack's sacrifice worth it.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Wtf is a"mere friend" anyway? I've never had a mere friend. I've had friends that were better than others, but none of them were so unimportant that I would belittle them with a term like mere.

I assume if I was in love with one friend who died, and not another, there'd be some pretty strong differences in what kind of grief I experienced. But I'd still grieve for them both. That's human nature right?

I can only conclude that the person who made this point is a cold-hearted bastard who should gtfo.

 

[Althea]

Her argument is that his great grief and guilt is proof that he loves her, because one wouldn't feel that way over the death of a "mere friend."

And call me crazy, but "mere friend" rubs me the wrong way. Friendship can be very powerful.

Oh and like you said earlier Isabella, even the death of a stranger can have a powerful impact. Just look at survivors of disasters etc, many report the intrusive images of strangers dying and the guilt of not being able to save them. Most good trauma research will highlight that fact. In fact, trauma can be very dehabilitating and isolating, such as it was for Cloud.

Add to that the fact that both Aerith and Zack were people whom cloud knew personally and already he will have another level of trauma to contend with.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Zack's death and Aerith's death are hardly identical. There's nothing he could have done for Zack. I think his guilt with regard to Zack comes more from not fulfilling his promise to make Zack's sacrifice worth it.

Exactly. Cloud's failure to Zack is not living out both their lives. Cloud's failure to Aerith is the failure to prevent her death and nearly being complicit in it himself. Beating the crap out of her right beforehand -willingly or not- isn't doing him any mental favors.

I mean, I'm sure everyone has heard of the scenario of someone having a fight with a friend or relative right before they died, and feeling responsible? Cloud's guilt is very much like that combined with survivor's guilt. He even says 'but I let you die,' which while not word for word what Pete feels about uncle Ben, is the exact same Sentiment- but for my failure, you would still be alive.

 

[Madame Mayor]

I can only conclude that the person who made this point is a cold-hearted bastard who should gtfo.

Either they have a lot of life lessons to learn (and painful ones at that), or they just legitimately aren't thinking what they are saying through. I like to think they are just crazy and not actually heartless.

 

[Althea]

^^Indeed, also Cloud is a person who has had to contend with feeling a failure all his life, from an early age of being unable to protect Tifa, to not being eligible for SOLDIER, unable to control his body when Aerith is praying for that split second...This would further lower his resilience to a traumatic event, especially once again when he felt he was unable to do anything or unable to protect the ones he loved, ie Zack and Aerith.

I mean the amazing thing about trauma survivors is that they tend to have this insurmountable guilt and fear. I mean Cloud fears he will be unable to protect his family once again and he retreats and isolates himself from them..

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Either they have a lot of life lessons to learn (and painful ones at that), or they just legitimately aren't thinking what they are saying through. I like to think they are just crazy and not actually heartless.

That's entirely possible too. Either way, I stick with my gtfo that ended my statement.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Either they have a lot of life lessons to learn (and painful ones at that), or they just legitimately aren't thinking what they are saying through. I like to think they are just crazy and not actually heartless.

Oh, they're definitely crazy, though I'm still not sure they're not heartless.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

As usual Ryu speaks truth. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Isabella]

Good posts, Althea. As for the individual in question being heartless, I'd like to believe that she's just checking her knowledge at the shipping door. It seems to happen a lot when you passionately want to believe something. I'm assuming she would feel differently outside the realm of the LTD. After all, she claims to be a doctor. I don't know much about what's required in med school these days, but you'd think some psychology courses would be required, and some basic understanding of the effects of trauma on the human psyche.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Good posts, Althea. As for the individual in question being heartless, I'd like to believe that she's just checking her knowledge at the shipping door. It seems to happen a lot when you passionately want to believe something. I'm assuming she would feel differently outside the realm of the LTD. After all, she claims to be a doctor. I don't know much about what's required in med school these days, but you'd think some psychology courses would be required, and some basic understanding of the effects of trauma on the human psyche.

You'd think a doctor would know the risks of imbibing the kool-aid.

 

[Ryushikaze]

She's a shipper first, everything else second.
She even agonized about her wedding because FFXIII was coming out the same month.
I mean... SERIOUSLY?

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I think you just defined batshit crazy for me Ryu. And now I wish I had my ignorance back.

 

[Madame Mayor]

I think you just defined batshit crazy for me Ryu. And now I wish I had my ignorance back.

It's what happens in these threads. You wish sometimes you could go back to a more simple time where you didn't know all these morons existed and that people could go so far for a ship.

 

[Dashell]

She's a shipper first, everything else second.
She even agonized about her wedding because FFXIII was coming out the same month.
I mean... SERIOUSLY?

I think she should have an FFXIII wedding, that would solve everything

 

[Isabella]

Or maybe a clerith wedding? I wonder if her bride's maids will be wearing pink?

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I think she should have an FFXIII wedding, that would solve everything

Dude, combine that with Clerith. Lots of pink at the wedding, and the honeymoon is spent playing FFXIII and not getting down with the shmex, thus causing further insanity and pinkness.

 

[Madame Mayor]

The sex doesn't have to be withheld. Combine it with playing FFXIII. [/kinky]

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

They must multi-task pretty well if that's the plan. I dunno about you but I get a little too occupied with the sex to play a video game in the middle of the deed.

And that was TMI wasn't it?

 

[Madame Mayor]

No what's too much information is that I'm going to highly recommend learning to do some creative "multi-tasking". XP

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

No what's too much information is that I'm going to highly recommend learning to do some creative "multi-tasking". XP

Dude, I didn't say I cannot do some creative multi-tasking during sex. It just doesn't Final Fantasy.

 

[Shadowfox]

After all, she claims to be a doctor. I don't know much about what's required in med school these days, but you'd think some psychology courses would be required, and some basic understanding of the effects of trauma on the human psyche.

From my experiences with doctors (both my father and sister are doctors, and my work requires me to be in contact with doctors almost constantly), having a basic knowledge of the workings of the human mind is absolutely essential if you want to be a good doctor. After all, you're dealing with people here, and people are more than the just the sum of their body parts.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Dude, I didn't say I cannot do some creative multi-tasking during sex. It just doesn't Final Fantasy.

As well it shouldn't, unless you his your limit break, of course.

@Shadow: Of course, there is the unerring idea that she's not actually a person doctor, but a horse doctor, a large animal veterinarian... but nevermind connecting the dots of the available evidence. She certainly never does.

 

[Shadowfox]

@Shadow: Of course, there is the unerring idea that she's not actually a person doctor, but a horse doctor, a large animal veterinarian... but nevermind connecting the dots of the available evidence. She certainly never does.

Even veterinarians need to know how to understand how their patients' minds/emotions work. In fact, I'd venture to say that empathy for your patients may be even more vital if you're a veterinary doctor since your patients can't really communicate to you what their ills are, and in many cases they're even more sensitive to external influences than humans.

 

[Isabella]

But to play devil's advocate, I've encountered my share of doctors with a God Complex. "I'm the doctor, you're one of the unwashed masses, how DARE you question my conclusion?"