LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[Alessa Gillespie]

Pretty much every FF7 character is like that, it's Woobie central. Aerith is the last Cetra and is hunted from childhood by Shinra, Barret had his village destroyed and was blamed for it, Red XIII is also the last of his kind and had daddy issues. Even Yuffie grew up watching Wutai turn from an honorable nation of ninja into a tourist attraction.

Seriously, are there any of the central FF7 cast who *don't* have a reason to angst?

Uh... Sephiroth count? Then again, that's more because I don't want to see his whining because it makes him look even more like a pathetic bitch to me more than anything.

 

[knit_lace]

I really think you're reading too far into that line. I go back to my earlier post: they're just at the beginning stage of their relationship, and she fears too much, too soon will make someone with Cloud's disposition panic. "At the same time, Tifa also thought, he is pushing himself too hard for me." She wants this relationship to go the distance. She does want more -- the whole family thing -- but knows she has to be careful with someone like him.

But at that point in time she isn't worried about the “family” aspect yet -- she’s the mother and Cloud’s the father --at least not until Marlene is left in their charge, and later when Denzel comes along. See, if she starts to worry about things moving too fast, it should be when Barret left and they have to play the parenting role. Then I could see why she thinks Cloud might back out.
I agree with Fighter though that it was there probably as a foreshadowing for things to come. I don’t think it necessary though because we already knew Cloud is going to leave. I also think it was placed too early in the narrative.
And Vendel brought up a good point about them not going through the normal phases of relationship. I can see Cloud jumping into a relationship headlong because he doesn’t know any better, but you’d expect Tifa to be the voice of reason and take things slowly.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Uh... Sephiroth count?

Genetic experiment raised from birth just to fight who finds out (to him anyway) he's the son of an alien who nearly destroyed the planet? He's taking it in stride but yeah, Sephy has his reasons to be bitchy too.

Then again, that's more because I don't want to see his whining because it makes him look even more like a pathetic bitch to me more than anything.

To me he's already a pathetic bitch. Some whining about his cruddy life might actually give him back some of the character he had back in FF7 and seemed to have lost ever since.

That's the thing that really bugs me about Sephiroth, he's so distant now from the FF7 version. FF7 Sephy had actual goals and motivations. Ever since FF7, all Sephiroth seems to do now is fuck with Cloud's head and toss around the words despair, darkness, puppet, etc. "Drown in the darkness of your despair, pathetic puppet". I would very much welcome the return of real character depth. This is why CC intrigues me.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I dunno about Cloud being the type to jump headlong into a relationship. His overall character is of a man who jumps into fights all willynilly and at times against all common sense, but with regards to emotions tends to hang back, hence Tifa being the only one his heart calls out to. I kind of see Tifa having to entice him into taking each new step, just like she did under the Highwind when she found a method of confirming their feelings when neither of them was able to speak them aloud.

And hey, look at that smile she gives him at the end of AC/C. That'd entice me just fine.

 

[Celes Chere]

Uh... Sephiroth count? Then again, that's more because I don't want to see his whining because it makes him look even more like a pathetic bitch to me more than anything.

LOL SERIOUSLY.

Sephiroth: I'm a monster? I GUESS I'D BETTER START ACTING LIKE ONE THEN. *summons meteor*

I really wish CC had explained why Sephiroth went insane in more depth. I understand that he was locked away reading about all that shit in the lab, and Genesis had an influence as well, (and what Drake said) but I wish we could see more inside his head. When exactly did he snap, and for what reason? We can all make our assumptions, but I want to know how his character actually feels. I liked Sephy when he wasn't insane... then his character sadly went to shit.

 

[knit_lace]

I dunno about Cloud being the type to jump headlong into a relationship. His overall character is of a man who jumps into fights all willynilly and at times against all common sense, but with regards to emotions tends to hang back, hence Tifa being the only one his heart calls out to. I kind of see Tifa having to entice him into taking each new step, just like she did under the Highwind when she found a method of confirming their feelings when neither of them was able to speak them aloud.

And hey, look at that smile she gives him at the end of AC/C. That'd entice me just fine.

I don't mean jumping headlong in a good way. I mean he doesn't know how a relationship is supposed to progress. Which is why he's thinking of starting a new life with her even though they just confessed. It's like someone deciding to get marry after a month or two of dating.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

LOL SERIOUSLY.

Sephiroth: I'm a monster? I GUESS I'D BETTER START ACTING LIKE ONE THEN. *summons meteor*

I really wish CC had explained why Sephiroth went insane in more depth. I understand that he was locked away reading about all that shit in the lab, and Genesis had an influence as well, (and what Drake said) but I wish we could see more inside his head. When exactly did he snap, and for what reason? We can all make our assumptions, but I want to know how his character actually feels. I liked Sephy when he wasn't insane... then his character sadly went to shit.

I think he was already a little unbalanced to begin with. Look at how stiff and formal he tends to be with all but his close friends, prior to going nutty. I've noticed a lot of people who act that way in fiction have a tendency to be compensating for urges and thoughts that disturb them. Then, one day a revelation or event occurs that snaps them completely, and they just let it all out. And let's face it, if you were a hybrid of human (not the sanest creatures ever born) and an alien monster so nasty it is called "The Calamity From the Sky" you'd probably have some urges that you didn't like and compensate for them.

Edit: Oops, forgot to mention that his coldly formal manner is probably also partly based on a failure to connect to people and have empathy with them, which just ties in beautifully with his later god complex and such. Dunno where he falls along the line between normal guy and sociopath, but I still posit Sephiroth was never entirely sane.

I don't mean jumping headlong in a good way. I mean he doesn't know how a relationship is supposed to progress. Which is why he's thinking of starting a new life with her even though they just confessed. It's like someone deciding to get marry after a month or two of dating.

Ok, I do understand what you mean then. I will agree, Cloud is likely clueless about what he's supposed to do next, how the process of building a relationship is meant to work. He probably would surge ahead early in some ways, such as the one you pointed out, and hold back until prodded by Tifa in many others as I pointed out.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

LOL SERIOUSLY.

Sephiroth: I'm a monster? I GUESS I'D BETTER START ACTING LIKE ONE THEN. *summons meteor*

I really wish CC had explained why Sephiroth went insane in more depth. I understand that he was locked away reading about all that shit in the lab, and Genesis had an influence as well, (and what Drake said) but I wish we could see more inside his head. When exactly did he snap, and for what reason? We can all make our assumptions, but I want to know how his character actually feels. I liked Sephy when he wasn't insane... then his character sadly went to shit.

Kefka is better, tbqh. Hell, Kuja beats him in the quality villain department with his "WELL MY LITTLE BROTHER WAS MADE TO TAKE MY JOB. :C" and his fucking FAHBULOUSness.

to contribute something to the topic at hand, AerithTifa.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

That latest FFG tirade about guilt

Funny, cause I just finished watching Black Hawk Down and Band of Brothers. Some man orgies going on tehre. Thank you, FFG, for that enlightening view into the human psyche

then his character sadly went to shit.

...
....

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I still like Sephiroth better than Kuja. Kuja was a whiny little toddler throwing a temper tantrum imo, though it was one hell of a tantrum. Kefka I like though, he's so Joker-like you almost wonder if a batch of Joker Venom didn't fall into the Void and wind up in the world of FFVI at a very inopportune moment.

 

[Isabella]

That whole "skipping over the courtship" thing is what I meant by too much, too soon. Confessing their feelings isn't the happy ending, it's just the beginning. And now these two damaged souls have to figure out how to take those feelings and mold them into a functioning relationship. Difficult enough on its own without the pressures of living together, operating a business together and insta-parenthood. They never had a chance to be alone and focused on the initial development of their relationship.

Edit: LOL @ like 3 convos going on at once

 

[Dashell]

I asked allexperts about that quote that some people say means Aerith is in denial. I asked if the word is used in cases of denial or if it's saying she doesn't know...

apparently it was out of this person's area of expertise O_o

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

That whole "skipping over the courtship" thing is what I meant by too much, too soon. Confessing their feelings isn't the happy ending, it's just the beginning. And now these two damaged souls have to figure out how to take those feelings and mold them into a functioning relationship. Difficult enough on its own without the pressures of living together, operating a business together and insta-parenthood. They never had a chance to be alone and focused on the initial development of their relationship.

Edit: LOL @ like 3 convos going on at once

Yeah, even without their repressed personalities that'd be a problematic set of circumstances to build a new life together in. I mean, its like the new life just hits them over the head, they never get a chance to learn the inherent joys and pitfalls of each one before it happens. I can't be sure, never having been in a situation anything like that, but I have a feeling I'd at least start dragging my heels and saying "enough is enough damn it!"

Also, yes three convos at once amuses me too

 

[Vendel]

Gotta love people who will rant on youtube or post mini-essays on the front page here. But alas the forums are deprived of their presence.

 

[knit_lace]

That whole "skipping over the courtship" thing is what I meant by too much, too soon. Confessing their feelings isn't the happy ending, it's just the beginning. And now these two damaged souls have to figure out how to take those feelings and mold them into a functioning relationship. Difficult enough on its own without the pressures of living together, operating a business together and insta-parenthood. They never had a chance to be alone and focused on the initial development of their relationship.

Thanks for clarifying. Which is why I think Tifa should have said no to them moving in, as it would strain their relationship further. But I guess she never has a normal relationship either.

Convo 2: I never felt sad when Sephiroth went insane. I would much prefer that his transition be like Anakin's. For reasons you can sympathize with, and he's sympathetic to begin with.

Convo 3: Which quote are you referring to Quex? The one where it said she doesn't know the truth of Zack's demise?

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Thanks for clarifying. Which is why I think Tifa should have said no to them moving in, as it would strain their relationship further. But I guess she never has a normal relationship either.

You're right, I doubt she has much more experience with a normally paced relationship than Cloud does. Still, her saying no to him living with her might have been a bad move too. For one they'd been living together during the journey anyway, for another considering Cloud's particular type of baggage doing so probably would've hurt and driven him off. Convinced him that she didn't love him after all and such. I think that's one of the reasons Cloud has a bed of his own in his office, it provides a little security, a little potential distance between them even if he doesn't actually use it.

 

[Celes Chere]

but I still posit Sephiroth was never entirely sane.

Hm, perhaps, but there's not really any proof of that idea, since we don't know anything about Sephiroth's past, or childhood. How was he raised, what was he like? What did he go through? Ever since I played FFVII, I have wondered this about Sephiroth, and I was disappointed that CC didn't really answer any of those questions for me, even though they DID let us see the Sephiroth before the true madness. Which I completely liked. He looks surprisingly cute when he smiles! I just really want to know what does on in his head. We have enough explanations about Goddamn Cloud already, let's move on to the other characters, please.

Kefka is better, tbqh. Hell, Kuja beats him in the quality villain department with his "WELL MY LITTLE BROTHER WAS MADE TO TAKE MY JOB. :C" and his fucking FAHBULOUSness.

to contribute something to the topic at hand, AerithTifa.

Kefka is hella better. He was crazy and evil. Demented ftw! I love Kuja too, he was a sadistic bastard, and at least he changed while he was on his death bed, that was sweet and really sad.

@OWD- Lol, sorry. ♥♥♥

Kuja was a whiny little toddler throwing a temper tantrum imo, though it was one hell of a tantrum. Kefka I like though, he's so Joker-like you almost wonder if a batch of Joker Venom didn't fall into the Void and wind up in the world of FFVI at a very inopportune moment.

Wooah, I definitely disagree that Kuja's character was whiney. At least he wasn't obsessed with Mommy.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Hm, perhaps, but there's not really any proof of that idea, since we don't know anything about Sephiroth's past, or childhood. How was he raised, what was he like? What did he go through? Ever since I played FFVII, I have wondered this about Sephiroth, and I was disappointed that CC didn't really answer any of those questions for me, even though they DID let us see the Sephiroth before the true madness. Which I completely liked. He looks surprisingly cute when he smiles! I just really want to know what does on in his head. We have enough explanations about Goddamn Cloud already, let's move on to the other characters, please.

I agree that my prior insanity theory has 0 proofz, but it clicks for me. Still, I also agree that more info on pre-Nibelheim Sephiroth would be great. He's such a cash-cow of a character, I wonder why SE hasn't delved into him, maybe even given him a solo-game in prequel form or something. His fanbase is so rabid it would definitely bring in the cash. Maybe its like the Wolverine: Origin comic, they put it off forever because they were afraid that killing Logan's mystery would kill interest in the character.

Kefka is hella better. He was crazy and evil. Demented ftw!

I'm telling you, Joker Venom got mixed in with the normal Magitek process somehow. The results were excellent. You could switch the Joker and Kefka's places and the main result would be Batman wondering how the Joker got super-powers and the Returners wondering why Kefka is suddenly powerless.

Wooah, I definitely disagree that Kuja's character was whiney. At least he wasn't obsessed with Mommy.

Agree to disagree, Kuja sucks imo Can't help that fact.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

the Returners wondering why Kefka is suddenly powerless.

Nah, if they got the Dark Knight incarnation of the Joker he'd be so good at evading the Returners and keeping them busy fighting mooks and following false information they've never get to him.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Nah, if they got the Dark Knight incarnation of the Joker he'd be so good at evading the Returners and keeping them busy fighting mooks and following false information they've never get to him.

Those are not traits unique to The Dark Knight variation of Mr. J. Not even close.

I think Kefka would be waaaaayyyyy too happy with Harley Quinn as well. But who wouldn't be?

Edit: It occurs to me not everyone knows who the hell Harley Quinn is. Thus, I add pictures and let them speak for themselves.

 

[Tennyo]

Can someone remind me where is says that Tifa's line in the HW scene were risque and that they had to tone the scene down?

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I'd have loved to Tenny my love, but then you came into the thread and I got all dizzy and distracted by your presence.

Plus I don't know and cba to look it up

 

[Dashell]

"How do you know Cloud joined SOLDIER to impress TIfa?"

uh.. cause he says so? O_o

 

[Strangelove]

What do you mean, you don't remember where it came from?

http://thelifestream.net/final-fant...o-13-of-the-ffvii-10th-anniversary-ultimania/

 

[Vendel]

Can someone remind me where is says that Tifa's line in the HW scene were risque and that they had to tone the scene down?

FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania creator interview.

Edit: Dammit hito!