LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[Strangelove]

Notice he says "series" and not just "Compilation."

FFVII is a series now as well

Otherwise, is Rinoa or Yuna standing in a field of flowers a reference to Aerith? Or Vaan picking a flower?

Or just the occurrences during FFVII titles, which makes more sense and doesn't turn every single thing remotely connected to FF into Aerith's own personal playground?

That's all I cba'd to add.

 

[Ryushikaze]

FFVII is a series now as well

Otherwise, is Rinoa or Yuna standing in a field of flowers a reference to Aerith? Or Vaan picking a flower?

Or just the occurrences during FFVII titles, which makes more sense and doesn't turn every single thing remotely connected to FF into Aerith's own personal playground?

That's all I cba'd to add.

Aerith is a symbol of Firion's dream. Trufax.

And snow, that's a totally valid point. Because you can write an n with the same number of strokes as an f, they're totally interchangeable, so Tina is yet another Tifa for Cloud to interact with.

 

[Dashell]

Okay someone told me Squall's crystal was a wing and said to be a reference to Riona... so that's not officially stated? I think it's on the FF Wiki.

Drake

 

[OneWingedDemon]

HAPPY NEW YEAR YOU FUCKERS!

Also I'd still like an answer, what do the flowers mean if they are not a reference to Aerith?

Something to do with firion and Cloud's fetish for them? Not everything flowery is a reference to Aeris.
if Cloud enters a bar in a game, it doesn't mean he's thinking of boning Tifa--never mind.

 

[Dashell]

Something to do with firion and Cloud's fetish for them? Not everything flowery is a reference to Aeris.

If it has to do with FFVII and flowers... most people will think Aerith.

 

[Isabella]

HAPPY NEW YEAR YOU FUCKERS!

We love you too, you bitch!

If it has to do with FFVII and flowers... most people will think Aerith.

So do you subscribe to the idea that Cloud riding through fields in the end credits is thinking of Aerith/going out to visit her? Because to me, that scenery represents a world that's found a degree of peace, and a man who has as well. It's not anti-Aerith, nor is it specific to Aerith. The flowers can be a nod to her without being all about her.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

If it has to do with FFVII and flowers... most people will think Aerith.

I had no idea that Dissidia was FFVII centered... Wow. They should maybe write that somewhere... /sarcasm

Although I do agree that the flowers being a passing "hey, look, an Aerith reference", I in no way see them as a 'romantic' symbol. I mean, if Aerith's flowers mean so damn much to Cloud, why the fuck does he GIVE the first one away (to either Tifa or Marlene) and then take Fenrir for a tire spinning assault THROUGH them.

Seriously, Cleriths, THINK about these things. What does that tell you about Cloud's devotion to the very symbols of his 'beloved'?!?

 

[Ryushikaze]

Okay someone told me Squall's crystal was a wing and said to be a reference to Riona... so that's not officially stated? I think it's on the FF Wiki.

Drake

No, Squall catches a feather, and THIS is a reference to Rinoa.
His Crystal is just a cigar.

HAPPY NEW YEAR YOU FUCKERS!

Something to do with firion and Cloud's fetish for them? Not everything flowery is a reference to Aeris.
if Cloud enters a bar in a game, it doesn't mean he's thinking of boning Tifa--never mind.

Cloud breathing means he's thinking of boning Tifa...
And seriously, as I said, Flowers already have an express internal narrative significance. External significance is just reaching.

I had no idea that Dissidia was FFVII centered... Wow. They should maybe write that somewhere... /sarcasm

Although I do agree that the flowers being a passing "hey, look, an Aerith reference", I in no way see them as a 'romantic' symbol. I mean, if Aerith's flowers mean so damn much to Cloud, why the fuck does he GIVE the first one away (to either Tifa or Marlene) and then take Fenrir for a tire spinning assault THROUGH them.

Seriously, Cleriths, THINK about these things. What does that tell you about Cloud's devotion to the very symbols of his 'beloved'?!?

To say nothing of trampling them without second thought to make it to Tifa.
And then he builds an Olympic sized swimming pool for the kiddies in her flowers too.

 

[Dashell]

To say nothing of trampling them without second thought to make it to Tifa.
And then he builds an Olympic sized swimming pool for the kiddies in her flowers too.

Oh for the love of...

So do you subscribe to the idea that Cloud riding through fields in the end credits is thinking of Aerith/going out to visit her? Because to me, that scenery represents a world that's found a degree of peace, and a man who has as well. It's not anti-Aerith, nor is it specific to Aerith. The flowers can be a nod to her without being all about her.

WAIT WAIT WAIT lemme fix my reply here
I think the flowers are saying she's always with him... and yes they do represent Aerith considering she was standing there in the original ending.

I had no idea that Dissidia was FFVII centered... Wow. They should maybe write that somewhere... /sarcasm

Cloud walked through the field... he's from FFVII, see what I did there?

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Okay someone told me Squall's crystal was a wing and said to be a reference to Riona... so that's not officially stated? I think it's on the FF Wiki.

Drake

WTF does the kermit mean?

As for Squall's Crystal - no comment, no interest. Squall's Crystal is just a....thing, it's gotten to the point that it's whatever you say it is. It's the Lunatic Pandora, it's a wing, a feather, a gunblade, a draw point - I've heard all of the above. So I really don't concern myself with what his Crystal is, it's not even really shown all that much. Squall's Crystal is just some silver-gray object, and as I said it looks like whatever you say it does.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Oh for the love of...

Tifa. For the love of Tifa Cloud trampled Aerith's precious flowers.

WAIT WAIT WAIT lemme fix my reply here

You mean because 'Calling' no longer exists...? And therefore that scene is completely irrelevant, even though it was clearly misunderstood from the beginning...?

Cloud walked through the field... he's from FFVII, see what I did there?

Cloud is from FVII? No way.

 

[Isabella]

I think the flowers are saying she's always with him... and yes they do represent Aerith considering she was standing there in the original ending.

So the credits are more about Aerith than they are Cloud?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Cloud walked through the field... he's from FFVII, see what I did there?

I do agree with Que on this one. Obviously flowers in the series in general -- and even other flowers in Dissidia -- are unrelated to Aerith, but given that it's those flowers and that character in that shot of Cloud leaving, they're related to Aerith then. But it doesn't have to be a romantic connection.

Also, while I agree that internal connections to the flowers are where one should look rather than first checking for external relevance, the flowers are given external relevance internally by Dissidia due to Cloud referencing his inability to save someone/people in the past, and his wish to meet Aerith again.

But, again, when he meets Aerith in his mind in Advent Children -- which would occur after Dissidia for him -- it's in a field of flowers that he envisions her. So I still say that the flowers are connected to Aerith for Cloud, but as a symbol of his redemption/atonement/being forgiven.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

So the credits are more about Aerith than they are Cloud?

According to some, all of ACC was more about Aerith than Cloud...

 

[Fairheartstrife]

So I still say that the flowers are connected to Aerith for Cloud, but as a symbol of his redemption/atonement/being forgiven.

Orrrrrr... and I know I'm going out on a limb here... but MAYBE flowers represent 'flower girl'. Maybe, just maybe, THAT could be the connection....

 

[Isabella]

but MAYBE flowers represent 'flower girl'

NO NO NO flowers represent Virgin Mary.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

And the Virgin Mary represents immaculate conception, and conception is pregnancy, and pregnancy is sexual, and sex is a sin, so therefore Flowers=SIN and Aerith is Yuna's father!!

 

[Dashell]

You mean because 'Calling' no longer exists...? And therefore that scene is completely irrelevant, even though it was clearly misunderstood from the beginning...?

No because I originally wrote "yes because..." and it made it sound like I totally agreed with everything Bella said.
... okay what was the question?
The flowers are a nod to Aerith, she's always with him, yadidahdah.

So the credits are more about Aerith than they are Cloud?

You guys are taking what I said way out of context here. I'm saying the flowers are representational of Aerith. I'm not saying that's the ONLY thing they represent, or that the ending is all about Aerith but the flowers are a definite nod to Aerith.

WTF does the kermit mean?

Lol relax, it's a joke, it means... exactly what it looks like

And the Virgin Mary represents immaculate conception, and conception is pregnancy, and pregnancy is sexual, and sex is a sin, so therefore Flowers=SIN and Aerith is Yuna's father!!

I have no idea what you said... but I like it

 

[Fairheartstrife]

No because I originally wrote "yes because..." and it made it sound like I totally agreed with everything Bella said.
... okay what was the question?
The flowers are a nod to Aerith, she's always with him, yadidahdah.

But she's NOT. Always with him. No no no no no. That's completely fucking up the message of Advent Children--which is quite possibly why the frikkin' scene was REMOVED.

You guys are taking what I said way out of context here. I'm saying the flowers are representational of Aerith. I'm not saying that's the ONLY thing they represent, or that the ending is all about Aerith but the flowers are a definite nod to Aerith.

I don't think most of us are arguing AGAINST the Aerith nod. The contention is with the reference in ANY WAY being romantic.

Lol relax, it's a joke, it means... exactly what it looks like

It looks like a constipated green muppet.

 

[OneWingedDemon]

and yes they do represent Aerith

Ugh. These very literal intepretations are starting to become insulting. No offense, Q.

FFVII introduced a world where the very planet was Pandora living organism of sorts, a living entity made up of EVERYTHING."We are ONE," said Simba.
Aaanywhoozle...

You have this move away from nature as the source of evil, the killing of "their mother" in the form of Shinra and Mako reactors. You have a shitload of grey and "no green". Blah blah blah eco terrorists. I should stop making references to Avatar.

Enter AC, which multiplies this x1000. Cloud's inner world is very much reflected in the color scheme and setting. We first see him riding through a barren wasteland. Then we have major action in a city in ruins.
Cloud is bogged down by guilt and fear and everyone is dying of Geostigma.

The end is the break from that, the resolution. Cloud is free, the freakin planet is free. Sephiroth is not terrorizing the Lifestream. Cloud is not being emo. So you have a return to a natural setting, an open field of flowers (a universal symbol of peace) that contrasts with the earlier grey that was fed to you.

Point being: It has nothing to do with Aeris personally. It is not a reference to her as a person, whether she's waiting or watching or scratching her ass. Yes, Aeris was a flowergirl, but the flowers do stand on their own as a symbol without necessarily always calling her into the picture. The Calling sequence certainly does not and seeing as how they changed it for ACC, it was never meant to be viewed as such to begin with.

You could only possibly view that as a nod to Aeris only in terms of her connection to the planet and what she represents as the defender of it.

Aaanyway, I'm gonna explode from insane amounts of food so I can't be arsed to make more sense now. So...WHAT BELLA SAID

 

[Dashell]

But she's NOT. Always with him. No no no no no. That's completely fucking up the message of Advent Children--which is quite possibly why the frikkin' scene was REMOVED.

I'm talking about in spirit. Not that she lives inside of him or anything. Nomura said the dead ones are always with us. She is forever engraved in Cloud's heart. I think it's safe to say she's always with in his heart and what not.

I don't think most of us are arguing AGAINST the Aerith nod. The contention is with the reference in ANY WAY being romantic.

But I agree with this so I'm not sure why we're arguing.

It looks like a constipated green muppet.

There you go.

Ugh. These very literal intepretations are starting to become insulting. No offense, Q.

lol

Everything else you said I mostly agree with, but I just don't think it's so far fetched to say the flowers represent Aerith in a way.... I mean...

"In Aerith's case, she continually has the "flower" image all through-out the series." ~Nomura interview; Dengeki Mao magazine, Oct. 2007

Why say and then show flowers and expect people to believe it's not a nod to Aerith?

Again I'm not saying that's ALL they mean. I'm not saying Cloud is going to have sex with her in a flower field, but the flowers are a nod to Aerith, plain and simple.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Squall has a lion image.

Not all lions are squall.

Same with Aerith.

And it's not 'Aerith is always with Cloud' because goddamnit walking into whitespace MEANS the dead are leaving. At most, it's 'She's always watching over him.'
And they took it out anyways.

And Calling is not the name of that sequence at all. It's Second Credits. Calling, the song, the 20 year old song, happens to play on top of it during AC and non Japanese ACC... for some reason.

 

[Dashell]

And it's not 'Aerith is always with Cloud' because goddamnit walking into whitespace MEANS the dead are leaving. At most, it's 'She's always watching over him.'

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Has the Flower Debate become the new Ribbon Debate or something?

Point being: It has nothing to do with Aeris personally. It is not a reference to her as a person, whether she's waiting or watching or scratching her ass. Yes, Aeris was a flowergirl, but the flowers do stand on their own as a symbol without necessarily always calling her into the picture. The Calling sequence certainly does not and seeing as how they changed it for ACC, it was never meant to be viewed as such to begin with.

I don't disagree with your interpretation of the visual presentation throughout the film, and I doubt that Que does either. That said, as motifs go, the flowers can be both what you just described and also related to Aerith in some fashion.

I mean, look at the snow globe in "Citizen Kane" for an example of a motif that can be connected to multiple things that have a related meaning.

Anyway, I'd argue that the meaning you described and the meaning of the flowers' relationship to Aerith is the same as what I've been saying is their relevance in Dissidia's ending. We know that they're supposed to represent Cloud's dream -- and what did he want more than anything for a while?

Atonement.

To put it another way, to return to the peace that's represented by the visual cues in Advent Children's credits.

 

[Isabella]

Has the Flower Debate become the new Ribbon Debate or something?

Just wait until we rehash the Did Cloud Cry? debate for the fifth time.