LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[Son Goku]

Sorry, i forgot!

 

[null]

So what, we need commentary now to understand a video game? A body of work stands on its own, and the game says nothing about who Cloud loves. Fact.

 

[Son Goku]

So what, we need commentary now to understand a video game? A body of work stands on its own, and the game says nothing about who Cloud loves. Fact.

Some people need commentary, others get it without Cloud saying: „I love you in a romantic way, you know! “

 

[null]

Some people need commentary, others get it without Cloud saying: „I love you in a romantic way, you know! “

Right. I don't need commentary to see that Cloud could love either one.

 

[Son Goku]

Right. I don't need commentary to see that Cloud could love either one.

"The page says IF the scene is the high affection version the romance happens, so it's OPTIONAL!"

If the creator says on the relevant page :

Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match.

Then this definite and clearly said thing happened!
Even if the Linked (pg. 232 "story summary") talks about versions that exist. This section (story summary) talks about everything that can happen. When there are deviations /several versions of an event , then it mentions them, too. Canon or not Canon, it is all mentioned there!

I saw what the creator said.
Either you need commentary or this:

"I don't care if it was romantic, I didn't see any romance so it didn't happen! CxA had a ton of romance though!"

Being delusional does not affect the reality. Even not the fictional canon reality!

 

[null]

So if the "creator" decided Barret is white, would it make it true?

A work stands on its own. Commentary is irrelevant.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

So if the "creator" decided Barret is white, would it make it true?

A work stands on its own. Commentary is irrelevant.

Commentary by the creator is NOT irrelevant. Saying so makes you sound like one of the 'new criticism' twats I hate so much...

however, regardless, that retarded statement, the fact is that the game does stand on its own and as such Cloud's feelings are VERY CLEARLY indicative of ONE preference. The idea that 'ehn, he could love either girl' is utter and complete bullshit, and I'm calling you on it.

If you were to argue that your view/stance/preference were such, I'd give you some slack, but the arrogant assertion that the 'work speaks clearly for itself **mmmuffmuffsnicker** ' while producing a claim that is completely counter to what the 'work' actually stands for makes me do two things. One, shake my head, and two, it gets me to giggle a bit, and go "awwwww, someone new to play with in the sandbox."

So, because you seem certain that the game itself supports either woman as romantic interest, (and it is not just your opinion as such), then I ask that you provide factual evidence of this, from within the game. Please and thanks.

 

[Son Goku]

So if the "creator" decided Barret is white, would it make it true?

If the creator decided that Barret is white now, he would turn white, yes!
Has nothing do to with the “commentary” tough.

A work stands on its own. Commentary is irrelevant.

Things like the Ultimanias are there to tell you what definitely happened.
They don`t change there anything!
And it is relevant, because the creator says that!
…
What you didn`t get probably:
In the Lifestream event and the following HW scene (either the more or less romantic one) we have been clearly shown the process of realizing their mutual feelings.

She ventured into Lifestream together with Cloud. Amidst the course of him trying to ascertain his memories, they became aware of the
thoughts/feelings which each other was holding.

+

She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC

We saw that. The creator showed plus told that!
And if you still don`t get it:

"I don't care if it was romantic, I didn't see any romance so it didn't happen! CxA had a ton of romance though!"

Being delusional does not affect the reality. Even not the fictional canon reality!

ps.: I`m beginning to understand Ryu...

 

[Vendel]

So if the "creator" decided Barret is white, would it make it true?

A work stands on its own. Commentary is irrelevant.

Commentary is only relevant when morons can't seem to grasp some basic concepts of the story. Take our pinker friends. For them Cloud was mostly himself on disk 1. Aerith barely knew this guy called Zack. Tifa practically abused Cloud as a child. They never knew each other at all. Cloud never really had a thing for her. Tifa never understood Cloud. Aerith did. The lifestream sequence is nearly meaningless. And the night under the Highwind at best meaningless and at worst a rejection.

That is why you need 'commentary'.

Edit: Damn two of you beat me. *shakes fist*

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Edit: Damn two of you beat me. *shakes fist*

**hugs Vendel**

I can go back to my observing, and let you fight the common sense fight. You do it so well. <3

 

[DrakeClawfang]

FHS, why does it say "wioll" in your sig pic?

 

[Fairheartstrife]

FHS, why does it say "wioll" in your sig pic?

Because I'm a frikkin idiot and typed too fast. **curses Drake and his observational skillz**

EDIT: ICHIRUKI FTW

happy, now?

 

[Winter]

Re: Death Note

There is actually a sporadically-enforced rule about not spoiling stuff (other than FFVII things), unless things have changed without me being aware.

That would imply that Death Note is worth watching/reading.

BUT TO HUMOR YOU

Spoiler

Death Note is a shitty anime and you should feel shitty

(see how I put it in spoiler tags)

pinker

jfc

 

[Strangelove]

That would imply that Death Note is worth watching/reading.

BUT TO HUMOR YOU

Spoiler

Death Note is a shitty anime and you should feel shitty

(see how I put it in spoiler tags)

I've only read it

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Because I'm a frikkin idiot and typed too fast. **curses Drake and his observational skillz**

EDIT: ICHIRUKI FTW

happy, now?

No, you still got the hair color wrong. The girl Cloud's hugging should have brown hair.

 

[Winter]

I've actually never read it, but I find the anime to be horridly boring and the cast male-heavy and thusly I have no interest.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

No, you still got the hair color wrong. The girl Cloud's hugging should have brown hair.

....

If Cloud was hugging anyone in that pic, I'd agree. You finicky bastard.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Well I'm assuming it's Cloud and Tifa, that or a couple from an anime I've never seen.

 

[null]

Commentary by the creator is NOT irrelevant. Saying so makes you sound like one of the 'new criticism' twats I hate so much...

Answer the question. If a creator says Barret is white, outside of the work, does it make it true?

YOU sound like one of those snatches who criticizes new criticism with baseless opinions. But you're not a snatch... right?

however, regardless, that retarded statement, the fact is that the game does stand on its own and as such Cloud's feelings are VERY CLEARLY indicative of ONE preference. The idea that 'ehn, he could love either girl' is utter and complete bullshit, and I'm calling you on it.

Hoookay, so I should accept it as bullshit on your say-so? I call bullshit on your calling bullshit. Bring a real rebuttal, not some weak ass smack.

If you were to argue that your view/stance/preference were such, I'd give you some slack, but the arrogant assertion that the 'work speaks clearly for itself **mmmuffmuffsnicker**

LOL whatever. Works do stand on their own, you just haven't grown up enough to stop needing your hand held by cliff notes. Don't judge others by your special needs.

while producing a claim that is completely counter to what the 'work' actually stands for makes me do two things.

You're doing it again. Tell me what the work actually stands for before saying my claim goes against it. Go on.

someone new

So, because you seem certain that the game itself supports either woman as romantic interest, (and it is not just your opinion as such), then I ask that you provide factual evidence of this, from within the game. Please and thanks.

Nope. You have a problem with my claim, you have to back it up. I'm not doing your homework.

If the creator decided that Barret is white now, he would turn white, yes!
Has nothing do to with the “commentary” tough.

Ok, if he does that in the work, that's completely different.

The commentary is not the work. It has no effect on what the work presents.

Again, answer the question. If some dude from the FF7 team says Barret is white in some magazine, does it make it true?

ps.: I`m beginning to understand Ryu...

He likes video games, logic, and boobs. I figured that out real quick.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Well I'm assuming it's Cloud and Tifa, that or a couple from an anime I've never seen.

The second.

 

[null]

*replying*

Don't keep me in suspense!

 

[Fairheartstrife]

YOU sound like one of those snatches who criticizes new criticism with baseless opinions. But you're not a snatch... right?

Oh, yes, absolutely. I have baseless opinions and nothing to back them up. Should make us on equal footing in a debate, ja? And new criticism is an excuse for making wrong/bad conclusions and then inserting reader opinion/interpretation over authorial intent. It's bullshit.

Hoookay, so I should accept it as bullshit on your say-so? I call bullshit on your calling bullshit. Bring a real rebuttal, not some weak ass smack.

Sweetie, I haven't even begun to smack. You're barely a chew toy, but I'm glad you think you've managed to call bullshit. My rebuttal is FFVII itself. I am saying that the game makes a clear and distinct statement. YOU are the one saying that the statement is open to either/neither option and that Cloud's emotions are never stated in the game. I believe you even added "fact." after your statement, which is crap based on a number of theings throughout the narrative, but I'll just use one, and that is that we--the player-- are told--several times, in fact, that Cloud had romantic interest in Tifa, and then at the culmination of the game and the scene they share he tells her--and us--that for him, nothing has changed. Read: STILL has feelings.

LOL whatever. Works do stand on their own, you just haven't grown up enough to stop needing your hand held by cliff notes. Don't judge others by your special needs.

I...I don't know what you said there. Do you have an abridged version? Something maybe with a yellow jacket and asterisked so that I can follow. Me with my special needs and all...

You're doing it again. Tell me what the work actually stands for before saying my claim goes against it. Go on.

First and foremost FFVII is not a love story, so to get into the long winded version of corruption and psychological trauma/finding self that is actually what the game symbolizes in the LTD thread is a bit much, so I'll keep my answers specific to that little portion... which I already did. The game doesn't leave anything ambiguous. The answer to whom Cloud loves is Tifa.

So, maybe not new. Don't care. You may be as old as moses or a fifteen year old freshman in Honors classes that thinks he's special. Whatever.

Nope. You have a problem with my claim, you have to back it up. I'm not doing your homework.

Hello, strawman. You need to back up your claim. I already have mine. It's called compilation. I'll provide examples, and have, actually--there are countless in this thread alone--but you need to assert at least ONE indication that Cloud loved Aerith before making the claim his emotions could go either way. Or, you need to shut the fuck up.

 

[Fairheartstrife]

He likes video games, logic, and boobs.

Who doesn't?

 

[Son Goku]

Ok, if he does that in the work, that's completely different.
The commentary is not the work. It has no effect on what the work presents.
Again, answer the question. If some dude from the FF7 team says Barret is white in some magazine, does it make it true?

Understanding what you read is important!
Unfortunately you are a bit slow. (no offense, we all have our flaws.)
Even if you didn`t understand it, I say it again.

I said:
If the creator decided that Barret is white now, he would turn white, yes!
(Like in a future work, not commentary! They don`t do that there!)

Has nothing do to with the “commentary” tough.
(Here I said they wouldn`t do that in a commentary.)


Things like the Ultimanias are there to tell you what definitely happened.
(Ultimanias(==commentary) tell you what happened…)
+
They don`t change there anything!
(…without changing anything what happened... )
+
And it is relevant, because the creator says that!
(…,in order that even the “slow ones”get it! )
=
Ultimanias(==commentary) tell you what happened, without changing anything what happened, in order that even the “slow ones” get it!


And:

It doesn`t matter what a random guy in a random magazine says.
THE ULTIMANIAS ARE CANON!

He likes video games, logic, and boobs. I figured that out real quick.

I meant what he said about the kinds of you. Even if i`m willing to bring you to common sense.


I strongly recommend doing this:
1. Stay away from LTD or „shipping“ forums/Sites for a week, at least 3 days.

2. Solve Sudokus in the meantime, if you don`t know how, learn it!
(Even if „hypothetically“ doesn`t have to affect your opinion, it’s still good for you!)

3. Solve at least 5 Sudokus per day (only the right done ones count!)

4. When you have withdrawal symptoms and your hands tremble, get some fresh air! While walking, think about how to solve Sudoku better.
(Science: It is said, that you can best think while you are walking outside!)

5. Solve some more Sudoku! (I tell you to do so for a reason.)

6. After this look at that above again. If you still don`t get it, then there is only one thing left to say:



"Being delusional does not affect the reality. Even not the fictional canon reality!"

 

[null]

Oh, yes, absolutely. I have baseless opinions and nothing to back them up. Should make us on equal footing in a debate, ja? And new criticism is an excuse for making wrong/bad conclusions and then inserting reader opinion/interpretation over authorial intent. It's bullshit.

I don't think you even remember what I wrote in the first place. Get it together.

Sweetie, I haven't even begun to smack. You're barely a chew toy, but I'm glad you think you've managed to call bullshit. My rebuttal is FFVII itself. I am saying that the game makes a clear and distinct statement. YOU are the one saying that the statement is open to either/neither option and that Cloud's emotions are never stated in the game. I believe you even added "fact." after your statement, which is crap based on a number of theings throughout the narrative, but I'll just use one, and that is that we--the player-- are told--several times, in fact, that Cloud had romantic interest in Tifa, and then at the culmination of the game and the scene they share he tells her--and us--that for him, nothing has changed. Read: STILL has feelings.

Yep, fact. The game never says who Cloud loves. The burden's on you to say where it does. Several times, my ass. Prove it.

But if you're not up to real debate, don't feel like typing, realize you said something incredibly fucking dumb and you're in way over your head, it's ok. I know you just can't resist responding, even if you have NOTHING but weak smack. It's not your fault I basically have this conversation and, in fact, you yourself, under my complete control. _I_ am doing the chewing here. You're just my tennis ball, my rubber toy here to amuse me while I wait for the Spurs/Mavericks game to start, which kinda drags here on the east coast. Dance, my puppet, dance!

I...I don't know what you said there. Do you have an abridged version? Something maybe with a yellow jacket and asterisked so that I can follow. Me with my special needs and all...

No, I'm a grownup. I don't keep those silly things around, what grownup needs to read books about books.

First and foremost FFVII is not a love story,

So love stories can't have love?

so to get into the long winded version of corruption and psychological trauma/finding self that is actually what the game symbolizes in the LTD thread is a bit much,

*snore*

so I'll keep my answers specific to that little portion... which I already did. The game doesn't leave anything ambiguous. The answer to whom Cloud loves is Tifa.

More claims, lying about backing them, yeah back to ... *zzzzzz*

So, maybe not new. Don't care. You may be as old as moses or a fifteen year old freshman in Honors classes that thinks he's special. Whatever.

You cared enough to respond. Control, puppet, etc. Already covered that.

Hello, strawman.

Hello, Google/Wikipedia/dictionary/education. Look up straw man. You don't seem to get what it is.

You need to back up your claim.

Doesn't running in a circle get old?

I already have mine. It's called compilation.

It's called lazy + hiding behind other posters as your champions. I'm not wading through all that crap (unless I was part of the conversation, then I find it engaging)

I'll provide examples, and have, actually--there are countless in this thread alone--but you need to assert at least ONE indication that Cloud loved Aerith before making the claim his emotions could go either way.

Sure. He reached for her hand and smiled. Romance!

Or, you need to shut the fuck up.

Look, Larry Bird - er, FFG is not walking through that door. I'm the best you're gonna get in this forum, sweetheart. And you jumped on my posts pretty quick, so don't lie and say y'all aren't DYING for someone to lock horns with.