LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[Dashell]

On a different forum I got someone saying that every single thing that has been put out since is a retcon.

At least she admits Cloti's canon, she just has a very hard time accepting it

So... feelings of desire

 

[Strangelove]

So... feelings of desire

Hasn't that been debunked yet?

 

[Dashell]

Not to my knowledge, but they're aware of it. Also when you look up 互いが求める気持ちon google, you get no results

The other one though does yield this:
http://www.utadanet.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4312&forum=6&post_id=110587

 

[Winter]

Hasn't that been debunked yet?

Give them a week or so, they'll think of something.

I really don't care if Cloti is canon, as long as SE still throws us Cleriths a bone sometimes. Which they do.

So I'm good.

 

[Shadowfox]

The other one though does yield this:
http://www.utadanet.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4312&forum=6&post_id=110587

When the degree of good impression for the cloud of [teihua] is high, the cover [ri] which remains in flying airborne assault to verify the feeling which seeks each other.

'Flying airborne assault to verify the feeling which seeks each other'? Wow. Now I've got visions of Cloud and Tifa literally launching themselves at each other.

 

[Strangelove]

Needs time to gather the Evil League of Evil

Not to my knowledge, but they're aware of it. Also when you look up 互いが求める気持ちon google, you get no results

The other one though does yield this:
http://www.utadanet.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4312&forum=6&post_id=110587

Try harderer. Although it's still only three. And one is here. And I made that up so what does it matter?

I'm sure that Utada site came up before when looking for this stuff, asking again about FFVII (I lie, LTD) stuff. Hikaru Utada fans are obviously the people to go to for this.

Edit; also I like the "but I'm not sure" there. As if that's ever going to be right. Really.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

'Tifa is like a mother, a comrade, and a pretty cool guest house.'

I dunno about that last one. If she stayed over would she let me watch her sleep?

*rimshot*

 

[Madame Mayor]

Q, might want to remind the person you're debating with that running off and saying I don't have anything to counter your argument is the same as admitting defeat. And in a debate competition it would mean you get to do your victory fanfare. XD

 

[Dashell]

I'm sure that Utada site came up before when looking for this stuff, asking again about FFVII (I lie, LTD) stuff. Hikaru Utada fans are obviously the people to go to for this.

Sally seems to know her stuff

 

[Celes Chere]

http://www.utadanet.com/modules/newb...post_id=110587

 

[Lily Ella]

Hasn't that been debunked yet?

Can't be that hard to "debunk." So feelings of desire and/or wanting is it? Well, this just further proves that Cloud & Tifa are all about the physical. All sex, no heart. Unlike the other pairing, which is all about ~*heart and soul*~.

 

[Shadowfox]

Sally seems to know her stuff

Speaking of this Sally person's post, I find her translation quite interesting, because it tells us that the affection value isn't about Cloud's affection for Tifa, but rather Tifa's affection for Cloud. Which is something that some of us have been saying for a long time -- that the affection scores only tell us what the girls are feeling, not Cloud.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Can't be that hard to "debunk." So feelings of desire and/or wanting is it? Well, this just further proves that Cloud & Tifa are all about the physical. All sex, no heart. Unlike the other pairing, which is all about ~*heart and soul*~.

To which the obvious response are 'I heard your heart calling out to mine' and 'Opened his heart only to Tifa'
And the obvious response to what will inevitably follow is the 'Aerith lives on in the hearts of all her friends' quote.

Speaking of this Sally person's post, I find her translation quite interesting, because it tells us that the affection value isn't about Cloud's affection for Tifa, but rather Tifa's affection for Cloud. Which is something that some of us have been saying for a long time -- that the affection scores only tell us what the girls are feeling, not Cloud.

1. That's not that hard to prove through very very simple examples.
2. Barret's a girl?

 

[Dashell]

Speaking of this Sally person's post, I find her translation quite interesting, because it tells us that the affection value isn't about Cloud's affection for Tifa, but rather Tifa's affection for Cloud. Which is something that some of us have been saying for a long time -- that the affection scores only tell us what the girls are feeling, not Cloud.

I didn't know this was an issue XD

But god this news is so huge, I wanna know how it went unnoticed for so long. Haven't people been studying the Ultimanias for years? ... I still don't get how we just noticed this now XD And I think anyone can tell the high affection version is canon...

Really there's only one thing left to do.

Spoiler: (this is for you Vendel)

 

[Ryushikaze]

I didn't know this was an issue XD

But god this news is so huge, I wanna know how it went unnoticed for so long. Haven't people been studying the Ultimanias for years? ... I still don't get how we just noticed this now XD And I think anyone can tell the high affection version is canon...

Really there's only one thing left to do.

Spoiler: (this is for you Vendel)

It got lost in the shuffle of various other very similar quotes. There are so many it's hard to remember them all all the time.

 

[Shadowfox]

I didn't know this was an issue XD

I'd have agreed with you, but apparently it is an issue to some.

With the affection value being an indicator of Tifa's feelings, then if there's any rejection to be done in any of the HW scenes, it'd have to be by Tifa, not Cloud.

2. Barret's a girl?

Sure, why not? I'm sure hito's still keeping that picture of Barret as Aerith somewhere.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

Proof I spend too much time here - I'm surfing TV Tropes and come across "Red String of Fate" and "Strangled by the Red String". Guess was immediately jumps to mind?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I didn't know this was an issue XD

But god this news is so huge, I wanna know how it went unnoticed for so long. Haven't people been studying the Ultimanias for years? ... I still don't get how we just noticed this now XD And I think anyone can tell the high affection version is canon...

I think Ryu is right. It's just that there are so many instances of "communicated their feelings to each other" (one in the CC Ultimania, two in the Ultimania Omega) or "disclosed their feelings to each other" (one in the Ultimania Omega, one in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania), that this one -- which actually appears in the paragraph below an instance of "communicated their feelings to each other" on pg. 27 of the UO -- just got overlooked.

So, yeah, there's six quotes like this in total, and this one was just easy to miss. I blame myself, really. I started to translate the whole page once and didn't do it.

In any case, this version of the scene is definitely canon, I believe. Not only is it the only version that really fits all those descriptions, and not only is it also the only one talked about in the FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania Scenario book's summary of the story, but I just asked FF_Goddess to check her FFVII Memorial Album (published by DigiCube/Square way back in 1999) to see which version of the scene it included in its script of the whole game.

She said it only mentions the high affection version, and that it's across pp. 241 through 242 in a section called "Highwind."

So, yeah. I think for those who Cloud and Tifa sexing it up that night is the grand indication of Cloud's romantic desire, this will resolve things. I'm sure there will still be some folks who feel it isn't enough, but that's what the Compilation is for.

 

[Isabella]

So I can finally retire from TLS feeling victorious? (Not that I didn't already.) Phew!

 

[Ryushikaze]

You could have done that YEARS ago, Bella. Like I've said time and again, this is the 'but the crying' phase of conflict.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

So I can finally retire from TLS feeling victorious? (Not that I didn't already.) Phew!

Yes, you can retire at ease knowing Clerith won, as always.

 

[Isabella]

You know what, Drake? I'm sure somebody somewhere will try to spin this as a victory for Clerith, somehow.

 

[Winter]

You know what, Drake? I'm sure somebody on CxA will try to spin this as a victory for Clerith, somehow.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Isabella]

Well, I wasn't gonna name names, but ...

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

At this point, the only refutation that really remains to be dealt with more is the relationship chart matter from the FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania. We already know what Zidane and Dagger's arrows say ("taisetsu na sonzai"; "important existence/person," which isn't exclusively romantic), so once we know what Squall/Rinoa and Tidus/Yuna say, we can hopefully put that matter to rest as well.

I think Celes' and Locke's do say "likes" ("suki"), but it's hard to tell:
http://s429.photobucket.com/albums/qq18/20thannivultimanias/FFVI/?action=view&current=Scan20005.jpg

Hito, can you make it out?

Of course, FFVII's chart is irrelevant for other reasons, but as long as the refutation is there, I believe in countering it on its own terms if possible.