LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[Eerie]

The argument about whether Cloud was Cloud seems irrelevant when you remember that it's about arguing if fake Cloud's romantic feelings for Aerith would continue on to the real Cloud, because you first need to prove even fake Cloud had those feelings.

No Clerii or otherwise has yet been able to do so. People just seem pissed that they fell for the Aerith and Cloud potential that was suppose to make her death more shocking rather than actual be anything beyond that.

Actually, to further that point, while I was playing, I remember clearly Aerith chasing after Cloud, and Cloud being "......." most of the time. If anything, that's not how a guy wanting to make out acts.

Him helping and saving her? That's expected, from a hero, right? It never occurred to me while playing that it was anything remotely romantic, or because he was attracted to her that he went to save her on the Shinra tower; more like, isn't it natural? She helped them, why wouldn't he? He was kind of a jerk in the first disc, but not that bad, really

And even if you want to take on Cloud's fake personality, you have then to also take what he says to Tifa too (no matter what, if you want to take the flirtiest replies, then take the ones he makes to the other girl too, since it's up to the player's choice; it's not because my Cloud never paid attention to Aerith that the Cloud in the compilation never did). And in that case, Tifa's the girlfriend, the one who you steal panties from, etc, etc [the list goes on]. Then it becomes another ridiculous list VS list

 

[Ryushikaze]

The argument about whether Cloud was Cloud seems irrelevant when you remember that it's about arguing if fake Cloud's romantic feelings for Aerith would continue on to the real Cloud, because you first need to prove even fake Cloud had those feelings.

No Clerii or otherwise has yet been able to do so. People just seem pissed that they fell for the Aerith and Cloud potential that was suppose to make her death more shocking rather than actual be anything beyond that.

It does seem quite a lot of people don't want to admit that the entire first and some of the second disc are just red herrings and the reveal that they were, and that they need to be re-examined in light of the revelation of latter disc 2.

It really all comes down to seeing what they want to see, and not seeing what they don't, like with the insistence that 'koibito' must mean 'nice person', that Cait she is inerrant despite being officially and easily observably unreliable (and correct even when his predictions contradict each other!), Aerith being a Mako parasite in Cloud but not in all her other friends whose heart she lives on in (and the related Zack not living inside argument as well), and all the other 'No, no no it's NOT the reasonable, rational, parsimonious, common sense explanation, it's THIS!'

It's about seeing what they want to see, not what can be seen or what we are told is there.
And I dare say, it always has been.

Addendum: I have just been told about how the pinkers have their word from on high about how this can't possibly mean 'want/desire' and how the HA version isn't canon, even though the pinker from whom word on high came confirmed not less than a week ago that it's the only version in the Memorial Album. It's like she posted her screed JUST to prove the point I made here.
Seriously, anyone wanting to give the pink screed a public flogging, do it here. I grant you permission. Hell, I encourage it.

 

[Vendel]

Seriously, anyone wanting to give the pink screed a public flogging, do it here. I grant you permission. Hell, I encourage it.

It seems like they are not even trying anymore. I mean did anyone else read that essay about Zack in ACC?

That combined with what I am hearing about their responses to want/desire.

Although I must ask one thing. Why do they insist the HA highwind scene can't be canon? According to them at most C/T confirm they are friends. And they still hold Cloud may have outright rejected her. So why would this be a threat?

 

[Homura Akemi]

Did cloud get back to him self ...I know that he found out his past...but I remember Reading somewhere that he could never go back to the real cloud. I don't know

 

[Vendel]

Did cloud get back to him self .

Yes.

 

[Dashell]

Quex, go ahead and restore that post. The lurker needs to be told such things, so tell them.

I put it on TNC

Seriously, anyone wanting to give the pink screed a public flogging, do it here. I grant you permission. Hell, I encourage it.

Hey! Hey you, FFG! Your mother is older than you! ...

...

ugn I'm so bad at this

 

[Fairheartstrife]

Addendum: I have just been told about how the pinkers have their word from on high about how this can't possibly mean 'want/desire' and how the HA version isn't canon, even though the pinker from whom word on high came confirmed not less than a week ago that it's the only version in the Memorial Album. It's like she posted her screed JUST to prove the point I made here.
Seriously, anyone wanting to give the pink screed a public flogging, do it here. I grant you permission. Hell, I encourage it.

Wait, wait,wait. What fuckery is this... word spread from on high? So, no one deigned to comment until Captain Pinkie McNumbshits and Co. declared the 'ultimate truth' ? And they are doing this by refusing to accept ACCURATE translation and single selection portrayals from with-in the game itself... Have these people even actually played the game?

Are they aware of how retarded they look?

Not even confused or clamoring, anymore, but eating-the-glue-retarded?

 

[Dashell]

Heh, one of their members actually said the statement WAS romantic but brushed it off with "That scene isn't canon."

I'm gonna ask again:
http://www.utadanet.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4312
is there ANYTHING wrong with that translation at all? Except that maybe desire is want...

 

[Ryushikaze]

That scene IS canon.

Memorial Album- FFG Helped us confirm it was a moment ago
UO- It's in there.
U20 Scenario- It's in there.

Low version? Nowhere.

 

[Dashell]

And in all those, they don't mention the low version at all?

 

[Loxetta]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Low vs High sort of like Advent Children vs ACC? The Low version is still canon, but doesn't show everything while the High version is more 'complete' and has what the Low version had, only more information?

...If that made any sense.

 

[Ryushikaze]

At best, they mention it exists. That's it.

And Lox, you could see the two as 'half of it/ all of it' but that's not how most people insist on seeing it. The two are slightly different, but at most it's 'positive version' and 'more positive version.'

 

[Loxetta]

Ah, okay. So comparing the two that way probably wouldn't fly all to well

 

[Dashell]

I want to point something out here.. I've seen a lot of Cleriths say that when Tifa asks Cloud "Do you love me?" the only possible explanation is that Cloud never showed he loved Tifa. So here's a question:

You don't like being with me?

Does this mean that Cloud never indicated that he liked being with her?

 

[Vendel]

I want to point something out here.. I've seen a lot of Cleriths say that when Tifa asks Cloud "Do you love me?" the only possible explanation is that Cloud never showed he loved Tifa.

As opposed to showing us that Cloud and Tifa's established relationship has hit a rough patch because Tifa even has to worry about this.

I swear the people who say C/T were never in a relationship because they are not shitting rainbows have never been in one nor witnessed one themselves.

It's been nearly two years people. Cloud and Tifa both work full time and raise two children. If they had been portrayed as some super happy, lovey-dovey, sickeningly sweet couple, it would have been horrible.

 

[Celes Chere]

And in all those, they don't mention the low version at all?

The picture of the date scene is also on Tifa's profile page (in the U20), but on Aerith's profile page the date scene isn't there at all, which seems weird considering how important it apparently is... right? Of course, I don't know what any of the Japanese says sooo...

 

[Isabella]

I'm wondering why she'd be asking the question if they weren't in a relationship. What, she sneaks into her roommate's room as he sleeps and asks him if he loves her? That's so creepy.

 

[Vendel]

I'm wondering why she'd be asking the question if they weren't in a relationship. What, she sneaks into her roommate's room as he sleeps and asks him if he loves her? That's so creepy.

It's all so clear to me. Tifa is Edward.

 

[Tennyo]

EW *gouges eyes*

Also lol Bella. That's a funny image.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I'm wondering why she'd be asking the question if they weren't in a relationship. What, she sneaks into her roommate's room as he sleeps and asks him if he loves her? That's so creepy.

Hey, in a world where a man has a relationship with a dead woman who parasitically lives in his head, that's downright healthy.

 

[Dashell]

I'm wondering why she'd be asking the question if they weren't in a relationship. What, she sneaks into her roommate's room as he sleeps and asks him if he loves her? That's so creepy.

http://z14.invisionfree.com/The_Northern_Crater/index.php?showtopic=900&st=0#entry5553277
For you

(And Christ, Cloud didn't respond but if I were him in that situation I'd be like "wtf" and kick her out)

 

[Carlie]

Why would you kick Tifa out of your room?

 

[Vendel]

Why would you kick Tifa out of your room?

Purely hypothetical situation of Tifa barging into Cloud's room and watching him sleep. In which case it would be a really creepy event that would warrant Cloud having some sort of reaction other than just going back to sleep.

Also Cloud would have to be gay.

 

[Tennyo]

http://z14.invisionfree.com/The_Northern_Crater/index.php?showtopic=900&st=0#entry5553277
For you

(And Christ, Cloud didn't respond but if I were him in that situation I'd be like "wtf" and kick her out)

I actually never thought of that. I was actually inspired to reply. You've broken my streak of not having anything to do with that place. lol

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

I can't leave you cock monkeys alone for five minutes, can I? You ran this thing into the fucking ground for ten fucking pages and spent most of that time spewing bile at one another. Jesus.

Your penance for making me read all this -- and post so much to catch up once again -- is the tl;dr shitstorm in the posts ahead.

But first:

Celes, in her benevolent hawtness, has provided me with several scans from the FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania File 1: Character guide. What do they say? Well:

-FFIV's: Cecil and Rosa are identified with "koui"/"favors," meaning the chart doesn't include the end of the game, where they're married
-FFVI's: "Koui" runs between Celes and Locke
-FFVIII's: "Koui" runs between Squall and Rinoa
-FFIX: "Taisetsu na sonzai"/"important existence/person" runs between Zidane and Dagger; "koibito" runs between Freya and Fratley; "rivals (later, favors)" runs between Steiner and Beatrix
-FFX: "Important person" again, this time between Yuna and Tidus; "osananajimi"/"childhood friends" () between Wakka and Lulu

As we already know, FFVII's chart uses incomplete data in that it says Cid still treats Shiera cruelly. As well, FFIV's chart doesn't seem to mention the fact that Cecil and Rose are married by the end of the game.

Further, FFIX and X's charts don't use ideas that are necessarily romantic to connect Zidane with Dagger and Tidus with Yuna. So, yeah, I'm going with the idea that these charts don't always feature end-of-game data, and don't always even call out romantic relationships.

While we're on the subject, it would be rather hilarious to try reconciling these charts with the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania's charts, where the one for the original game lacks arrows indicating that Aerith and Tifa like Cloud, where the one for AC only mentions that Cloud has a "sense of guilt" for Aerith (Zack is simply "former best friend"), and the one in DC, where there are no lines or arrows running from anyone to Cloud.

Though I do encourage you all to have fun with how most charts -- including AC's -- describe Cloud and Tifa as "childhood friends," while the FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania's chart does the same for Wakka and Lulu.


Alright, now to get to replying to peeps.