LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

The one he lives with or the dead one?

  • Living

    Votes: 96 88.9%
  • Dead

    Votes: 12 11.1%

  • Total voters
    108
Status
Not open for further replies.

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
First, Fairheartstrife:
Fairheartstrife said:
That's an awful lot of assuming and insertion of story by the audience/player for that scenario to work... just sayin'...

I don't disagree. But, then, we faced the same challenge with Advent Children's super acrobatics. And we met the challenge. :monster:

Fairheartstrife said:
Semantic quibbling with the King of Anal (and yes, that's your new title) is just fun. ;)

Glad I could provide you entertainment. :awesome:

Fairheartstrife said:
Nope, that's from me realizing you wrote all that shit to begin with. :P

Fair enough.

Fairheartstrife said:
But consistency is a standard, and aside from minor tweaks, CC in no way outright contradicts any events in FFVII. Elaborated, tweaked, altered a bit, sure, but nothing is completely ignored or changed in order to shoehorn it into compilation. Which is my point.

I think we're defining "contradiction" differently then. Because, to me, CC is dripping with outright contradictions/inconsistencies.

Fairheartstrife said:
I'm sorry but "Life signs detected" on a handheld PDA-device-thing still doesn't mesh with computer fragmented soul bits. Just, no. There, again, would have to be a lot of assumption about the technology in Yuffie's hand.

True that. We don't know the exact mechanics behind its detection capabilities, but I offered what I thought seemed the most reasonable explanation given the circumstances.

Fairheartstrife said:
He just happens to be sitting dead at the terminal that the fail safe program activates on? On the Sister Ray? Not in a lab, or an office, or an underground bunker? But on the Sister Ray? Sure...why not?

Well, why not? Why wouldn't it make as much sense for him to have activated it there as anywhere else?

Fairheartstrife said:
And I always sound pissed. It's my 'tone'. Just ask my husband.

Fair enough.

Fairheartstrife said:
Sooooo...she meets him at 15, dates him, but isn't attracted to him until she's 17...? Okay, then.

But it's not saying that it was what initially attracted her in any obvious capacity. It comes from a passage where the things Aerith liked in the past are being compared to the things she likes in the present.

So, at 17, she'd found Zack's carefree smile attractive. At 22, it didn't have quite the same effect.

Fairheartstrife said:
By using an outside source not even of the same genre to exemplify a point that was understood as it was, but held in contention? Ok, gotchya.

That's why it's an illustration. :monster:

Fairheartstrife said:
And Nomura worked WITH Nojima to make sure everything was cohesive.

You have evidence that Nojima had input on the battle prowess of the characters?

In any case, even if they did work together to make things cohesive, they failed miserably: Once again, throwing a large, metal shuriken the distance of several city blocks after running up a wall and backflipping off it dozens of feet, launching oneself through the air after landing on one's hands, etc. -- all of this is more impressive than not being able to move a young guy her own age. Or to kick down a door.

Fairheartstrife said:
Wait, what story? Maiden? The one I say is full of shit? That story? Or am I missing a key element of compilation?

We were talking about whether the notion of gleaning stuff from Cloud or Tifa should be applicable in Maiden. I'm just saying that it is because of her getting their memories of her father.

Fairheartstrife said:
*shrug* I saw something interesting enough to comment on, so I commented. I tend to do that.

Sounds good. XD

Fairheartstrife said:

Aye!
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
I agree that it's not on the same level, but I'm thorough.

TresDias said:
I agree that it's not on the same level, but I'm thorough anal.

Fixx'd that for ya :wackymonster:

:awesome:!

Mako Eyes said:
Wtf? Its the same circumstance. Both times regarding Cloud and Zacks' escape, they wait for lunch, and Zack then knocks the shit out of the stupid fuck who thought he could feed them and not get their teeth smashed. How is it different?

It's not the same circumstance at all. In one, Zack apparently breaks the glass open during a bad dream and knocks out the technician who walks by. In the other, they use the plan he and Cloud had.

Mako Eyes said:
Yeah, some of the circumstances are different, but CC doesn't say "IGNORE FFVII AND LOOK AT THIS FOREVER IF ITS NOT HERE."

Seems like it.

Mako Eyes said:
LOL, I could say the same to you regarding gameplay XD

Hey, I point out that FFIX is bad because of that too. :awesome:

Mako Eyes said:
I'm pretty sure Reno said something too, but I mean. We know they thought about it. They were just mum on it in FFVII. What were they supposed to say or do? Maybe they did think/say something to themselves that we hadn't seen.

Maybe so. You'd just think that when they first saw him they'd have had a reaction.

The most we get from Reno is, "They were...... Mako eyes." Which sounds more like he's commenting on Cloud apparently looking like a SOLDIER than on it being Cloud himself. And Tseng. Well, Tseng's too busy laughing like a bad guy and slapping the shit out of Aerith to care. :monster:

Of course, I do like the explanation for his behavior in that scene that Nojima wrote into Case of Shin-Ra. That was really well done on his part.

Mako Eyes said:
CC is hardly the most egregious offender though. That's reserved for BC and DC.

BC by far, but DC not by much. But, yes, it's not the worst offender.

Mako Eyes said:
Of course, and Shinra made Midgar a police state. I'm sure there was some serious intimidation and media black outs that ensured no one spoke of Genesis and anyone who had too much info on it were either killed or silenced. I mean, no where in the Compilation or DC say that no one in the world knew who Genesis was. It just stated that records of "G" had been destroyed and he was considered a taboo, and never spoken of by the company again. They even specifically state that those in Midgar's slums remembered him and said "G sleeps in Midgar." Now again, where's the inconsistency? What's wrong with that? We're basically being told Shinra wrote him out of their records. The world didn't suddenly pull a KH: Chain of Memories and forget he ever existed :monster:

The problem is more with the idea that a comment like "his existence might be a fabrication" could even be taken seriously. I mean, what, people don't keep newspapers? Magazines? Record TV shows?

Not even the newspaper where it was publically announced that Genesis had been killed in action? Because such a statement was issued.

Not to even mention how fucking stupid the idea is that the public would forget a figure Shin-Ra had molded into a celebrity.

Mako Eyes said:
...You were one of those English professors who circled every single misused comma in a paper, when grading it, weren't you?

You better fucking believe it. :monster:

But, really, something like that isn't such a big deal to me. XD Honestly.

Mako Eyes said:
Dude, if I convince myself I turned the stove off when I left home, even though I have a feeling I left it on, and then I come back from work to see my house on fire. I'll be surprised yes, but I won't be shocked at the fact its on fire. Seriously. There's surprise and dismay that Zack is dead, but that's not the same as "Zack?! WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE!!!!"

I just find that shit ridiculous.

I thought we'd already established that Aerith is batshit insane when in the Lifestream? :awesome:

Fair enough. I still don't see the line quite the way you do, I'm afraid, but that's alright.

Mako Eyes said:
Well both make sense. I see what you're saying but if he really did it before hand, why the hell did he bother sitting at the computer, and do the uploading to the network, filled with bullet holes and cut up? He was just finishing uploading his fragments so...he had to have just done it then with his dying breath.

Ah, you're saying that's why he was sitting at the console at the time? Hm. Honestly, never thought of that. :monster:

Just figured he was still trying to get the cannon to work when he died.

Really, though, that calls into question some things and makes DC's opening look even more retarded. In the first place, I can't imagine Vincent walking away from there without having made sure the guy was dead to begin with, but given that -- until Case of Shin-Ra was written -- DC's opening was intended to have taken place a week after that fight, how the hell was it ever supposed to make sense that his last act was distributing his neurodata into the network?

I guess my view of that opening scene has been influenced all this time by the timing of its original placement. I couldn't picture Hojo taking a week to crawl to the panel.

With the new timing of the event, yeah, I can buy that Hojo may not have died right away. Still think Vincent would have probably shot him, reloaded, and then shot him again after the fight was already over, but, yeah, I can see that working.

But, then, I think my way makes sense too. :awesome:

Mako Eyes said:
Lucrecia's fragments helped guide Shelke and Vincent, but they didn't literally take a life of their own and like...start moving around and shit like Hojo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EiYWciFX0w :monster:

Mako Eyes said:
Dude, how could it be a hologram though? Look at how it acts when Nero possesses Weiss. It definitely acts ethereal. He's as ghost-like as Nero.

...

Hmm..the flickering is an interesting point that does make it appear more digital, I'll give you that... but I seriously don't know how a hologram is going to constantly be broadcast all over the place, and rise out of Weiss's body.

Well, the image that rose out of his body does appear to be a ghost. It's not flickering like the hologram was, and it doesn't have those recurring gaps running along it.

But, as we've agreed, thoughts/consciousness equate to spirit energy. Given that this data had possessed Weiss' body, whatever consciousness was in there would be the body's spirit.

Mako Eyes said:
I mean, in the end..Hojo's fragments are still spirit energy. It's made of the same thing spirit energy is. Memories, consciousness, etc.

I agree with you. It doesn't make a difference in the end. It might as well be Hojo, because it's him in every other respect. I just don't think it's the original "data."

Mako Eyes said:
Eh, I dunno. If the guy was trying to make himself fly off the planet to be his own god and shit, it doesn't sound like he wanted to be part of his son in the end. He only wanted to help him. Not...sacrifice himself to him.

I don't disagree. I'm just saying that once he was dead and didn't have any other choice, he'd have said, "Fuck it. Let me make the best of this."

Mako Eyes said:
Dude, that's a lie! :monster:

I'm not gettin' down behind a fanfic that depicts Zack as a liar for an incredibly stupid reason. He never had to lie to impress Aerith before, why all of a sudden does he feel the need to now in death, when she could probably since his ass lying thanks to being a Cetra and being of spirit energy? It's just so ridiculous.

Again, if he was just being a flirt and knew she knew he wasn't serious, he wasn't lying.

Mako Eyes said:
What the fuck? If he was laughing, he'd appear to be laughing.

Are you going to help me fanwank a fix for this or not? :monster:

Mako Eyes said:
Why would he have an expression of getting fucked up the ass with a pineapple while laughing his ass off maniacally?

Because he's Sephiroth, dude. He got fucked up the ass with the Fusion Swords in AC/C and still took the time to boast before vanishing.

For that matter, his visual depiction didn't correlate with the fact that he was fucked there.

And don't you hold the opinion that he was fighting Cloud with all the swordsmanship ability he had in AC/C, despite Nomura saying they deliberately made sure that he "never shows any sign of exertion" (Reunion Files; pg. 61)?
In other words, you think he was trying hard even while his image didn't portray it?

So, again, when everything in a different scenario is telepathic, what's to stop something similar from taking place?

Mako Eyes said:
Well with the way Maiden said it, Aerith's cry shook the whole planet's consciousness (i.e. the lifestream) and it all moved to Midgar to help. That ain't right.

But, again, waking the whole planet's consciousness only means the whole thing was available. Not that all of it actually went.

Again, in all depictions of the incident, you still see more tendrils way off in the distance at the moment Holy defeats Meteor. I don't see how Maiden would have ever implied differently.

Mako Eyes said:

Don't get used to it. :monster:
 

The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Everybody else (including some more Mako and FHS):
Like Vines said:
Sephiroth is insane. That's what I'm saying -- is Aerith just crazy or was Cloud her lover?

If Aerith wanted to say "I loved Cloud" she would have. But she didn't. She said "Cloud was my sweetheart/lover/harblgarbl".

Well, technically, that is all that was said. "Koibito" just means "desired person," not "one part of a mutual relationship." That's the understanding in which it's often used, but it is not by any means its only meaning, nor the only connotation that it has.

Quexinos said:
Those feelings were still there when he became his normal self right? If they weren't, he would have acted very differently. Aerith's death probably wouldn't have bothered him nearly as much.

I don't think romantic feelings have anything to do with Cloud's reaction to Aerith's death. I mean, look at his reaction to Zack.

Quexinos said:
Mako Eyes said:
Then you and various members missed a fundamental point that's been stated repeatedly regarding context, and how Nomura speaking outside of the universe regarding Tifa's character as a koibito, can't exist in a vacuum. The very context of her being called a lover in a third person quotation by said director, must mean she is a lover to someone. If said my character Joe, was a husband/lover to someone, that must mean he's in a relationship.
Then I say
But why is she a lover and not just desired by someone?

I think I see Mako's point here. He's saying that Nomura's use of "koibito" in the Reunion Files is different because it shows up alongside identification of two very important roles for her within AC/C, and roles which she herself finds important to her at that (being like a mother, and being an ally in battle).

It would be rather like saying "is like a mother, is a brunette, and is an ally in battle" if it weren't referring to something more than just "somebody -- I'm not saying who; could be Johnny -- likes her."

For the record, I do think Cloud was attracted to Aerith, though.

Quexinos said:
It's funny how Clotis and Cleriths alike use the context argument to prove their koibito statement is more important.

Also this really has become "our koibito statement can beat up your koibito statement!"

It's just ridiculous now. :(

Mako Eyes said:
Like Vines said:
If Aerith wanted to say "I loved Cloud" she would have. But she didn't. She said "Cloud was my sweetheart/lover/harblgarbl".
She stated what Cloud and how he was symbolic.

She/the narrator reflecting her feelings still called him her koibito, though. Which he was. Because he was her "desired person."

Zee said:
Mako Eyes said:
Its a word implying romance. In a novella about Aerith's feelings.
Mutual is a part of the definition.




I guess Nojima and Nomura just forgot to call each other about this little issue.

"Mutual" is not part of the definition.


Seriously, guys -- and that goes for all of you -- there's two meanings for this word. Stop embarrassing me by association.

For future reference:

Definition 1: One part of a mutual relationship.
Zee, this is most likely the way that Nomura was using it in the Reunion Files quote. I wouldn't really worry about it that much, though, and don't argue it for proof myself.

Definition 2: Someone who is desired.
Mako, this is most likely how it was being used in Case of the Lifestream White.

Ryushikaze said:
[Lots of all caps]

Dude. Those make you sound so angry. :'(

Makes me uncomfortable sometimes.

my that's a lot of capslock

please stop abusing the letters.

also, for a bunch of people who hate the "die hard pinkers" you sound just like them lolol

Mako Eyes said:
!Fallacy Check

Zee +1 Ad Hominem, +1 False Dilemma

Sometimes some of us here can be overzealous, though. This clusterfuck of a debate being an example.

Emotions got way too high way too fast.

Zee said:
For the sake of clarity, all anyone is really saying right now (I'm pretty sure) is just that Cloud and Aeris had some sort of mutual romantic feelings for each other when she was alive. Not that they were in eternal tru wuv, but there was something there that they both felt. Cloud doesn't have to be aware of Aeris' feelings to feel something for her. This has nothing to do with his current relationship with Tifa.

However, it does seem to be enough for some people to flip their shit over.

A-fucking-men.

I seriously can't leave you people alone, can I?

Mako Eyes said:
And for the sake of clarity, I'm asking for when the heck these romantic feelings were manifested by Cloud.

Why has no one answered me yet?

In fairness, a line like, "But I'm..... we're here for you, right?" may not establish a romantic relationship, but it does sound like a classic line you'd see from someone with an interest backpedaling mid-sentence to cover it up.

Zee said:
D.) Well strip me naked, and call me Bruce. Do we have a consensus here?!

I said this since I started posting here, you just never pay attention. You can actually feel something for someone and not date them. I know this is shocking, so I'll give you a minute to chew on it.
If they both had romantic feelings for each other (how much you can determine on your own, idc) when she was alive, that's a mutual feeling and hence, koibito. c:

Ryushikaze said:
Except A: That's not a proper usage of Koibito's primary meaning. To love someone who loves you back but who is UTTERLY UNAWARE of your love is not sufficient to be a 'mutual' type Koibito. You have to actualize somehow. Elsewise, you are still both 'Beloved' type koibitos of each other.
B: You haven't said when he showed romantic feeling. You're still asserting it as so without validating the assumption.

Ryu's right. It would only fit the second definition, not the first.

And Ryu still needs to turn off his caps lock. :awesome:

Cissy said:
Quexinos said:
The issues was that Tres quoted PYT's posts from the private Clerith forum. I don't really think the topic needs to be closed but that was the issue...

Oh, no! Not that! Anything but that! Tres, you shit-stirring Cloti, you. xD The topic did not need to be closed because of that, especially because we were discussing shiz in there. Hey, let's close the only section getting posts in the Forum. That's the smart thing to do. /annoyed/

Believe it or not, I didn't even realize that the private sections were literally private. I'm always logged in to my account on there, same as here, so I'd never noticed that the private sections were invisible to anyone who wasn't categoried into the Clerith or mod groups. I didn't even realize Invision had such a capability. XD

Quexinos said:
Well I guess this stems from my belief that if someone is that messed up in the head, they aren't really themselves. Like if I were to go off my meds and kill a bunch of people because I think they're evil smurfs or something, then I wasn't really myself.

How likely is that to occur? Just asking. No reason.

Quexinos said:
But in all honesty I asked 5 people I know who speak Japanese about this statement. One of them said the statement was ambiguous, another one said it was ambiguous at first, then when I questioned about the meaning of Motomeru and he changed his mind with like, "Well I only said it wasn't romantic because I thought it was supposed to be ambiguous." and yet a third person and I went through:

"I think it's feelings of understanding."
"Where are you getting understanding?"
"Well I didn't look at the whole thing you sent me."
"Can it be feelings of want?"
"Well that's what I though at first but that's leaning too much to one side"
"... thats the point..."

So I wonder if this sentence is like... ambiguous when you first look at it and then you realize it isn't because IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE.

I think you need to stop asking people who assume that people asking for a translation is supposed to influence how they translate it.

That, or stop asking people who pretend they're not part of the fandom but actually are. :awesome:

Ok, even if we take out the feelings of want--and desire--and return to "mutual feelings" we KNOW for a fucking FACT that Tifa wants Cloud. This is made obvious through the ENTIRE fucking game, so much so that she sees Aerith as a rival and Clerith fans call her a clingy bitch, so, then, even with the removal of the accurate translation, we KNOW Tifa's feelings are romantic, so if, in that scene they reveal their MUTUAL feelings they would HAVE to be romantic in nature based on that alone. ONE can't 'want' and the other 'not' and those feelings be considered mutual. It makes no sense and twists logic in ways that Aerith's side curls would envy.

Seriously well said.

Isabella said:
I'm wondering why she'd be asking the question if they weren't in a relationship. What, she sneaks into her roommate's room as he sleeps and asks him if he loves her? That's so creepy.

I agree. The scene makes less sense if they aren't together.

Fairheartstrife said:
Guys, come on. They are clearly in a relationship of un-actualized, un-realized and un-revealed love. I mean, duhr, that's the BEST kind of love, and OF COURSE it's mutual. That's just a given, based on the aforementioned un-revealed. Just because they don't SHARE it with one another doesn't negate mutuality... I mean, look up the word mutual in the dictionary. It's right after Koibito--which is a SYNONYM for mutual. So, yeah, why are we arguing? It's pretty simple really.

Mako Eyes said:
Well, it's the type of love we have, so I can appreciate it. It's truly special. Just like you. :kiss:

We may not share it, it may only be from my end, and hell, you may have only just heard about my confession in this post. But that doesn't make you my koibito any less. Which IS a synonym for mutual. No matter what.

We're together forever. Whether you know about it or not.

Fairheartstrife said:
Except you DID just reveal it, and in doing so--by the standards set in the LTD--I must take your revealed romantic feelings as rejection. How could you, Mako?!? :(

Mako Eyes said:
Oh God....no! What have I done?!

128676027329078533.jpg




*kills himself with a spoon*

Fairheartstrife said:
Wait, wait, wait.... that's brilliant!!

If you are dead, then we are destined to love one another for eternity! Had you remained alive, then of course nothing would have worked out between us, but with you dead and our feelings unresolved that negates the reveal and therefore we are MEANT TO BE!! :joy:

**runs to find flowerfield**

Get a room and get off my LTDs. :monster:

KisstheRain said:
GAWD, I'm getting so sick of this thread I mean there is no LTD anymore. Tifa accepted that Cloud loves AERITH so why are we discussing this...? I mean Cloud wanted forgiveness from AERITH not Tifa, and Cloud is in parallel games with AERITH (KH > KHII) and for goodness sake Cait Sith even said that Cloud and AERITH were compatible so why do you delusional Cloti's think this? And Cloud and AERITH had sex more likely in the gondala then TifaxCloud did on the highwind. Jeezz....

I think I'm hot for you.
 
Last edited:

Isabella

Your Mom
http://z14.invisionfree.com/The_Northern_Crater/index.php?showtopic=900&st=0#entry5553277
For you :monster:

(And Christ, Cloud didn't respond but if I were him in that situation I'd be like "wtf" and kick her out)

I actually brought that point up at TNC more than a year ago. :monster: The kid I was discussing it with said Tifa must have said it because she wanted to start a relationship. To which I responded that Tifa has the most lousy timing ever. She doesn't bring up pursuing a relationship when they first start living together and Cloud's happy and blushing at her. No, Tifa brings it up when Cloud is sullen and pulling away from her and everyone else. Way to go, Tifa. XD Maybe gloomy, distant men are a turn-on for her.

Furthermore, if she wanted to pursue a relationship then one can assume she'd want Cloud to actually hear the question. But she didn't. She waited until he was asleep to ask it. I'd argue that's because she was seeking reassurance while at the same time fearing she might not get it. You know, as happens when relationships get rocky.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
It's not the same circumstance at all. In one, Zack apparently breaks the glass open during a bad dream and knocks out the technician who walks by. In the other, they use the plan he and Cloud had.

....I never took the scene that way. But wow, I see what you're getting at now. Okay, yeah. That's what it does look like in Crisis Core.

Because, if I remember in FFVII. The stupid nerdy attendant, opened the door to Zack's cell first, then Zack beat the shit out of him, right?

Oh well, again. Crisis Core doesn't change the fact they planned for it, or passed each other messages in regards to how to escape. They only subtly changed its implementation in order to make room for the expanded characterization of Zack and his connection to Angeal. It's not really that big of a change, and it's not like they're saying FFVII's version didn't happen.

But I do see your point in how it was changed. It isn't the same.



Seems like it.

Not...really. If that were the case, the CC Guidebooks wouldn't make any reference to FFVII, or say "here, CC didn't show this, or how it happened, but look at FFVII and you'll see the answer there!" That's not indicative of them tossing away FFVII's depiction of events, at all.



Hey, I point out that FFIX is bad because of that too. :awesome:

Eh, FFIX's battle system wasn't the best but it wasn't downright boring or unplayable. It got annoying but it didn't past the threshold of playability and downright aggravation.



Maybe so. You'd just think that when they first saw him they'd have had a reaction.

The most we get from Reno is, "They were...... Mako eyes." Which sounds more like he's commenting on Cloud apparently looking like a SOLDIER than on it being Cloud himself. And Tseng. Well, Tseng's too busy laughing like a bad guy and slapping the shit out of Aerith to care. :monster:

Well considering the Compilation's emphasis of Cloud and Zack's connection to Shinra, and them having met the turks, yeah. You'd expect more of a mention of it in FFVII, proper. The only way it can remotely be justified is by the fact we don't see all the innermost thoughts and feelings of the "enemy" or their conversations regarding the past and previous members of the country. We don't see Tseng, Reno, or Rude speak about Zack. We don't hear anyone from Shinra speak about having to capture Zack. Nothing. It's just all left behind the veil of the story.

Of course, I do like the explanation for his behavior in that scene that Nojima wrote into Case of Shin-Ra. That was really well done on his part.

Oh yes, me too.



BC by far, but DC not by much. But, yes, it's not the worst offender.

Glad we agree there. But I still think DC is pretty bad. :awesome:



The problem is more with the idea that a comment like "his existence might be a fabrication" could even be taken seriously. I mean, what, people don't keep newspapers? Magazines? Record TV shows?

Not even the newspaper where it was publically announced that Genesis had been killed in action? Because such a statement was issued.

Not to even mention how fucking stupid the idea is that the public would forget a figure Shin-Ra had molded into a celebrity.

Dude..take it up with the crazy, conspiracy-theory author who wrote the G-Reports! All they are, are cryptic, haphazardly written reports by some outside investigator, who clearly is either young and unfamiliar with Midgar and Shinra those 10 years ago, or deliberate obfuscation of the facts. But the G-Reports aren't that big of a deal.

Look at the previous Ansem Reports of KH1. They're pretty damn stupid too, now that we know the truth, and who really wrote them. :monster:



You better fucking believe it. :monster:

But, really, something like that isn't such a big deal to me. XD Honestly.

LOL, good.



I thought we'd already established that Aerith is batshit insane when in the Lifestream? :awesome:

ROTFL, you're cold, you know that? XD



Ah, you're saying that's why he was sitting at the console at the time? Hm. Honestly, never thought of that. :monster:

Just figured he was still trying to get the cannon to work when he died.

Really, though, that calls into question some things and makes DC's opening look even more retarded. In the first place, I can't imagine Vincent walking away from there without having made sure the guy was dead to begin with, but given that -- until Case of Shin-Ra was written -- DC's opening was intended to have taken place a week after that fight, how the hell was it ever supposed to make sense that his last act was distributing his neurodata into the network?

If he was really trying to get the cannon to work, why would the last actions he did before dying, result in the Balrog Fragment Program initializing? Clearly its implied that his last actions were the uploading of his fragments there. You can see the monitor and the status for the fragment upload and everything. Somehow, with his dying strength, he uploaded himself into the network, before he shed his mortal coil.

I guess my view of that opening scene has been influenced all this time by the timing of its original placement. I couldn't picture Hojo taking a week to crawl to the panel.

With the new timing of the event, yeah, I can buy that Hojo may not have died right away. Still think Vincent would have probably shot him, reloaded, and then shot him again after the fight was already over, but, yeah, I can see that working.

But, then, I think my way makes sense too. :awesome:

The original timing of it happening is stupid. But wait, why do you say a week? It wasn't a week between the fight against Diamond Weapon/Helletic Hojo, and then fighting Sephiroth. Between the time Cloud defeated Proud Clod, and Hojo...told everyone to find what they were fighting for, and the finally whooped Sephiroth..was not a week.

Well he does have Jenova cells in him now, and mutated into a monster... he was badly damaged, and wounded, but still had enough vigor to keep going before finally expiring. With that in mind, and the current placement of the event, through Case of Shinra, it makes perfect sense.

...As for your way... Pffah.






Hmm..okay. Well I see your point. Fair enough.



Well, the image that rose out of his body does appear to be a ghost. It's not flickering like the hologram was, and it doesn't have those recurring gaps running along it.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm talking about. *nodnod*

But, as we've agreed, thoughts/consciousness equate to spirit energy. Given that this data had possessed Weiss' body, whatever consciousness was in there would be the body's spirit.

I agree with you. It doesn't make a difference in the end. It might as well be Hojo, because it's him in every other respect. I just don't think it's the original "data."

Pretty much. But why do you think its not the original? If he's uploading his entire mind, and dying at the same time...his spirit energy...his soul, is being taken out of his body, and put inside the network. DC never tells us he "copied" himself. It tells us he literally uploaded, and put his entire being into it. I think the plot would tell us for sure if the Hojo we saw was just a copy or what not. Hojo certainly doesn't say he's a copy.


I don't disagree. I'm just saying that once he was dead and didn't have any other choice, he'd have said, "Fuck it. Let me make the best of this."

Ahh, okay. Guess that's not *that* inconceivable. But I don't think his spirit energy would end up in the Lifestream AND Network at the same time. That just strikes me as presumptuous, especially given that it never even states so in DC. I don't think Hojo's profile in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania refers to Hojo as some copy either. It wasn't fully done or anything, but from what I remember back on AC.net it merely refers to him being in the network itself. As if his spirit never joined the lifestream in the first place.



Again, if he was just being a flirt and knew she knew he wasn't serious, he wasn't lying.

Aerith doesn't know about Zack's training, or if he and Cloud ever trained together or anything. Aerith didn't even know shit about SOLDIER. So that doesn't quite work. For all she knew, maybe he did teach it to him. It just seems ridiculously unnecessary and out of character. In regards to Zack resorting to having to flirt with his own previous girlfriend like she were a stranger, and Aerith coldly rebuffing him. It's just ridiculous given the Compilation proper's depiction of the two. It doesn't fit.



Are you going to help me fanwank a fix for this or not? :monster:

NO!



Because he's Sephiroth, dude. He got fucked up the ass with the Fusion Swords in AC/C and still took the time to boast before vanishing.

Bullshits. While being anally raped by Cloud you could see the anger, and pain on his face. After the subsequent curbstomping was over, and his body was already disappearing, he used his last moment to quip about his legacy, but he wasn't laughing and giggling while being cut up by Cloud. And he certainly was NOT laughing while his face gave off the expression of pain and hatred. I see through your attempts at fanwanking that away!!!!

And don't you hold the opinion that he was fighting Cloud with all the swordsmanship ability he had in AC/C, despite Nomura saying they deliberately made sure that he "never shows any sign of exertion" (Reunion Files; pg. 61)?
In other words, you think he was trying hard even while his image didn't portray it?

That's not the same thing. Sephiroth in essence, makes fighting look easy due to his superb swordsmanship and overwhelming power. He doesn't have cognitive dissonance where his face shows pain, yet his voice laughs hysterically. That's a mental schism of emotions. The Reunion Files are speaking of his amazing talent and superhuman strength.


So, again, when everything in a different scenario is telepathic, what's to stop something similar from taking place?

Why would Sephiroth project an image of himself in pain and torment, after being defeated wholeheartedly by Cloud, while he's apparently laughing and not even phased at being completely defeated?

Hell, it doesn't even match with Lifestream Black's depiction of Sephiroth's attitude and emotions of defeat. He was angry. Pissed. Hurt, and wounded. He was not laughing or finding his defeat amusing in any way.



But, again, waking the whole planet's consciousness only means the whole thing was available. Not that all of it actually went.

Again, in all depictions of the incident, you still see more tendrils way off in the distance at the moment Holy defeats Meteor. I don't see how Maiden would have ever implied differently.

Why would it bother implying Aerith awoke the entire consciousness of the planet and moved it, if it wasn't implying she was rallying the entire lifestream. The way its written leaves it heavily implied that she's working with all of the planet proper's spirit energy (i.e. consciousness) to erradicate Meteor.

Yeah, in all depictions of the ending, you see more tendrils way off in the distance, the moment Meteor's destroyed. But this is Maiden. The same Maiden who shows a stupidly different depiction of Sephiroth getting beaten by Cloud. You know...the part of the ending, where in all depictions, it shows Sephiroth being defeated, broken and bloody, and looking pained before vanishing into spirit energy. :monster:

So yeah. We can't just take for granted the fact that its one way in FFVII and Maiden wouldn't try to change it. It already did before.
 
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The Twilight Mexican

Ex-SeeD-ingly good
AKA
TresDias
Oh, and Tres?

1263193978.jpg

:monster:

Just for you. <3

....I never took the scene that way. But wow, I see what you're getting at now. Okay, yeah. That's what it does look like in Crisis Core.

Because, if I remember in FFVII. The stupid nerdy attendant, opened the door to Zack's cell first, then Zack beat the shit out of him, right?

Oh well, again. Crisis Core doesn't change the fact they planned for it, or passed each other messages in regards to how to escape. They only subtly changed its implementation in order to make room for the expanded characterization of Zack and his connection to Angeal. It's not really that big of a change, and it's not like they're saying FFVII's version didn't happen.

But I do see your point in how it was changed. It isn't the same.

Victory!

I accept your defeat and apology, and assume this means there's no reason to read the rest of your post. Good debate, sir, good debate. :monster:



Oh, there's more?

Mako said:
Not...really. If that were the case, the CC Guidebooks wouldn't make any reference to FFVII, or say "here, CC didn't show this, or how it happened, but look at FFVII and you'll see the answer there!" That's not indicative of them tossing away FFVII's depiction of events, at all.

I see the CC Complete Guide mentioning stuff like that as an acknowledgement that "Yeaaah, we sort of fucked the goose on this one, but we don't really give a shit." Sort of like how they tried to bullshit their way out of LO's inconsistencies with the claim that it was all just Tseng's ideas about what probably happened, in open defiance of the text on the files in front of him.

And I don't think I was the only one to notice. Next time LO was addressed, it was said to no longer be part of the Compilation.

As I've said before, fans can make a difference! And with more than just the size of Star Destroyers.

Mako said:
Eh, FFIX's battle system wasn't the best but it wasn't downright boring or unplayable. It got annoying but it didn't past the threshold of playability and downright aggravation.

My point was more that with FFIX I don't forgive bad gameplay for the sake of an excellent story -- in its case, I call out the shit characters and the shit gameplay.

Mako said:
Well considering the Compilation's emphasis of Cloud and Zack's connection to Shinra, and them having met the turks, yeah. You'd expect more of a mention of it in FFVII, proper. The only way it can remotely be justified is by the fact we don't see all the innermost thoughts and feelings of the "enemy" or their conversations regarding the past and previous members of the country. We don't see Tseng, Reno, or Rude speak about Zack. We don't hear anyone from Shinra speak about having to capture Zack. Nothing. It's just all left behind the veil of the story.

I know. And I don't like it.

BC had no problems with showing the Turks get emotional left and right. Hell, look at Reno when he thinks that Tseng really killed Veld and Elfe. It was like Cloud after Seph stabbed Aerith.

Mako Eyes said:
But I still think DC is pretty bad. :awesome:

You have every right to be wrong about whatever you wish to be wrong about. :awesome:

Mako said:
Dude..take it up with the crazy, conspiracy-theory author who wrote the G-Reports!

You seem to know a lot about this author. Something you want to tell us, Mako?

Mako said:
All they are, are cryptic, haphazardly written reports by some outside investigator, who clearly is either young and unfamiliar with Midgar and Shinra those 10 years ago, or deliberate obfuscation of the facts. But the G-Reports aren't that big of a deal.

They're fucking dumb.

But look who's defending DC at the moment. :awesome: Where's your Jesus now?

Mako said:
Look at the previous Ansem Reports of KH1. They're pretty damn stupid too, now that we know the truth, and who really wrote them. :monster:

Were all of them written by Xehanort's Heartless, though? I thought at least some were by the genuine Ansem.

Mako said:
ROTFL, you're cold, you know that? XD

Not my fault she forgets who was her koibito and whether she thought Zack was dead. :awesome:

Mako said:
If he was really trying to get the cannon to work, why would the last actions he did before dying, result in the Balrog Fragment Program initializing?

Well, like I mentioned before, I assumed -- the fragment program being a fail-safe and all -- that he copied his neurodata and had it set to activate at a certain time in the event that he didn't prevent it prior. Basically, like an alarm clock.

You set it to wake you at a certain time, and if you don't wake up before then to disarm it, it's going to activate.

Mako said:
The original timing of it happening is stupid. But wait, why do you say a week? It wasn't a week between the fight against Diamond Weapon/Helletic Hojo, and then fighting Sephiroth. Between the time Cloud defeated Proud Clod, and Hojo...told everyone to find what they were fighting for, and the finally whooped Sephiroth..was not a week.

Red XIII says his jii-san says otherwise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8yLvY4Hwyo#t=6m

I know you aren't calling Red a liar, Mako. I will fuck your shit up. :monster:

Or are you calling Bugen the liar? 'Cause then I'll just end you.

Mako Eyes said:
Well he does have Jenova cells in him now, and mutated into a monster... he was badly damaged, and wounded, but still had enough vigor to keep going before finally expiring. With that in mind, and the current placement of the event, through Case of Shinra, it makes perfect sense.

Yeah, with the new timing, it's workable, but it took a guy who didn't even write the goddamn game to fix that shit. What does that tell you?

Mako said:
...As for your way... Pffah.

Apology accepted! Good talk! :monster:



Oh, there's still more?

Mako said:
Hmm..okay. Well I see your point. Fair enough.

Sweet.

Mako said:
Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm talking about. *nodnod*

Aight.

Mako said:
Pretty much. But why do you think its not the original? If he's uploading his entire mind, and dying at the same time...his spirit energy...his soul, is being taken out of his body, and put inside the network.

Well, like I said, I think Hojo copied his data prior to the battle, same as Lucrecia copied hers and was still alive.

Mako said:
DC never tells us he "copied" himself. It tells us he literally uploaded, and put his entire being into it. I think the plot would tell us for sure if the Hojo we saw was just a copy or what not. Hojo certainly doesn't say he's a copy.

Well, what did he do it with is my question. There was all kinds of equipment back at the Shinra Mansion for Lucrecia to do that with, but there wasn't dick on the Sister Ray.

Mako said:
Ahh, okay. Guess that's not *that* inconceivable. But I don't think his spirit energy would end up in the Lifestream AND Network at the same time. That just strikes me as presumptuous, especially given that it never even states so in DC.

Well, they are two separate places. You could have the original Hojo's spirit in the Lifestream while the copy is in the network.

Mako said:
I don't think Hojo's profile in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania refers to Hojo as some copy either. It wasn't fully done or anything, but from what I remember back on AC.net it merely refers to him being in the network itself. As if his spirit never joined the lifestream in the first place.

Would be interesting to take a look at that again. I'm going to check it out when my copy of the 10th AU gets here, which should hopefully be in the next week or so.

Mako said:
Aerith doesn't know about Zack's training, or if he and Cloud ever trained together or anything. Aerith didn't even know shit about SOLDIER. So that doesn't quite work. For all she knew, maybe he did teach it to him.

I guess it's just the way I always heard him saying the line in my head. "Well, ya know Aerith, that one was totally mine."

Mako said:
It just seems ridiculously unnecessary and out of character. In regards to Zack resorting to having to flirt with his own previous girlfriend like she were a stranger, and Aerith coldly rebuffing him. It's just ridiculous given the Compilation proper's depiction of the two. It doesn't fit.

I don't think she responded to him at all when he said it, actually. EDIT: Just checked. She didn't.

And, in any case, I'm not arguing that it's canon. Just that it could work.

Mako said:

Well, fuck you too then. :monster:

Mako said:
Bullshits. While being anally raped by Cloud you could see the anger, and pain on his face. After the subsequent curbstomping was over, and his body was already disappearing, he used his last moment to quip about his legacy, but he wasn't laughing and giggling while being cut up by Cloud. And he certainly was NOT laughing while his face gave off the expression of pain and hatred. I see through your attempts at fanwanking that away!!!!

His expression when he was fading wasn't one of pain and hatred. It was calm, as was his voice.

And I really don't see much of a difference between laughing while dying in one instance and making an empty promise to come back like Freddy Krueger in another.

Mako said:
That's not the same thing. Sephiroth in essence, makes fighting look easy due to his superb swordsmanship and overwhelming power. He doesn't have cognitive dissonance where his face shows pain, yet his voice laughs hysterically. That's a mental schism of emotions. The Reunion Files are speaking of his amazing talent and superhuman strength.

But you've said that you thought he was really exerting himself, only he wasn't allowing his image to reflect it.

Mako said:
Why would Sephiroth project an image of himself in pain and torment, after being defeated wholeheartedly by Cloud, while he's apparently laughing and not even phased at being completely defeated?

Well, he was in pain and torment. But given that there's no voice acting, I can fanwank this shit as much as I like. :monster:

Mako said:
Hell, it doesn't even match with Lifestream Black's depiction of Sephiroth's attitude and emotions of defeat. He was angry. Pissed. Hurt, and wounded.

And confident that the world was his to rule. :awesome:

Mako said:
Why would it bother implying Aerith awoke the entire consciousness of the planet and moved it, if it wasn't implying she was rallying the entire lifestream. The way its written leaves it heavily implied that she's working with all of the planet proper's spirit energy (i.e. consciousness) to erradicate Meteor.

I really don't see it as such. It just reads as uplifting and inspiring to me that she rallied the entire spirit of the planet to repel a threat. Doesn't mean she used all its energy to do that.

Mako said:
Yeah, in all depictions of the ending, you see more tendrils way off in the distance, the moment Meteor's destroyed. But this is Maiden. The same Maiden who shows a stupidly different depiction of Sephiroth getting beaten by Cloud. You know...the part of the ending, where in all depictions, it shows Sephiroth being defeated, broken and bloody, and looking pained before vanishing into spirit energy. :monster:

"In all depictions"? You mean all one of them? :awesome:

Mako said:
So yeah. We can't just take for granted the fact that its one way in FFVII and Maiden wouldn't try to change it. It already did before.

I can and will.

Wow, that was easy. :monster:
 
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Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
Oh and I forgot how about those charts. Lulu and Wakka = childhood friends is the best thing ever :monster:
 

Isabella

Your Mom
Who cares about mutual feelings of desire when Cloud's standing in a flower field at the end of Dissidia?

You guys really need to learn how to rate your love nuggets. They aren't all worth one point, you know.
 

Dashell

SMILE!
AKA
Sonique, Quexinos, Pinkie Pie, Derpy Hooves
I actually brought that point up at TNC more than a year ago. :monster: The kid I was discussing it with said Tifa must have said it because she wanted to start a relationship. To which I responded that Tifa has the most lousy timing ever. She doesn't bring up pursuing a relationship when they first start living together and Cloud's happy and blushing at her. No, Tifa brings it up when Cloud is sullen and pulling away from her and everyone else. Way to go, Tifa. XD Maybe gloomy, distant men are a turn-on for her.

*Tifa sneaks into Cloud's room*
Tifa: Cloud wanna go out?
Cloud: Hmm.. wha...?...
Tifa: wannagoout?
Cloud: Hmm.. yeah... sure...w/e lemme sleep...
Tifa: :joy:

but anyway...
 

Alessa Gillespie

a letter to my future self
AKA
Sansa Stark, Sweet Bro, Feferi, tentacleTherapist, Nin, Aki, Catwoman, Shinjiro Aragaki, Terezi, Princess Bubblegum
I agree with Zee's statement wherever the fuck you put it about Cloud/Aerith being past lovers/desire to be lovers/whatever the fuck you wanna say about that and Tifa and Cloud being current lovers.

With that, I'm going to hope the rabid clitosmore assertive folks who disbelieve in a Clerith relationship will not berate me for zomg proofz on that because I am tired and working two million hours a week. :awesome:
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
I accept your defeat and apology, and assume this means there's no reason to read the rest of your post. Good debate, sir, good debate. :monster:
Oh, there's more?

You're in quite the cheeky mood I see...


I see the CC Complete Guide mentioning stuff like that as an acknowledgement that "Yeaaah, we sort of fucked the goose on this one, but we don't really give a shit." Sort of like how they tried to bullshit their way out of LO's inconsistencies with the claim that it was all just Tseng's ideas about what probably happened, in open defiance of the text on the files in front of him.

And I don't think I was the only one to notice. Next time LO was addressed, it was said to no longer be part of the Compilation.

As I've said before, fans can make a difference! And with more than just the size of Star Destroyers.

Well isn't that persistently pessimistic of you. I love how you assume such bad faith in them! I don't think they're quite so inept, dude.



My point was more that with FFIX I don't forgive bad gameplay for the sake of an excellent story -- in its case, I call out the shit characters and the shit gameplay.

I'm getting sick of your mouth dude. I'm going to have to take care of it if you keep it up.

Internettoughguys.gif


I know. And I don't like it.

BC had no problems with showing the Turks get emotional left and right. Hell, look at Reno when he thinks that Tseng really killed Veld and Elfe. It was like Cloud after Seph stabbed Aerith.

BC is about intimate details of Shinra and the Turks.

FFVII is about Cloud and the intimate details of his life and friends.



You have every right to be wrong about whatever you wish to be wrong about. :awesome:

:@ :@ :@ :@ :@ :@ :@ :@ :@ :@ :@



You seem to know a lot about this author. Something you want to tell us, Mako?


Yuffie wrote them.


They're fucking dumb.

But look who's defending DC at the moment. :awesome: Where's your Jesus now?

I'll defend what I think isn't assfucking ridiculous :monster:



Were all of them written by Xehanort's Heartless, though? I thought at least some were by the genuine Ansem.

Only the first one. But yes, they were written by Xehanort's Heartless. That's how they explained the fact that they painted Ansem the Wise as this sadistic, sociopathic ruler of a world who was evil and insane.

A subsequent explanation is likely to occur in regards to who wrote those reports. We should at least wait and see what their context in the story is before decrying them as ridiculous and stupid.



Not my fault she forgets who was her koibito and whether she thought Zack was dead. :awesome:

ROFL.



Well, like I mentioned before, I assumed -- the fragment program being a fail-safe and all -- that he copied his neurodata and had it set to activate at a certain time in the event that he didn't prevent it prior. Basically, like an alarm clock.

You set it to wake you at a certain time, and if you don't wake up before then to disarm it, it's going to activate.

Wha? Where do you get that from? The program just clearly states "Start Fragmentation Program" and then something along the lines of "Upload complete." Why would he need to initialize it, or even bother with it, if he already uploaded his mind to the network in the first place? That's just so convoluted and redundant. If he backed his mind up in the Shinra Network..whats the point of just waiting and not letting it upload? If he didn't need it, he could delete it from the network.


Red XIII says his jii-san says otherwise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8yLvY4Hwyo#t=6m

I know you aren't calling Red a liar, Mako. I will fuck your shit up. :monster:

Or are you calling Bugen the liar? 'Cause then I'll just end you.

My mistake :monster:



Yeah, with the new timing, it's workable, but it took a guy who didn't even write the goddamn game to fix that shit. What does that tell you?

2vuhd91.jpg



Well, like I said, I think Hojo copied his data prior to the battle, same as Lucrecia copied hers and was still alive.

That'd work, but the opening shows us Hojo just finishing copying and uploading his fragments to the network. :monster:



Well, what did he do it with is my question. There was all kinds of equipment back at the Shinra Mansion for Lucrecia to do that with, but there wasn't dick on the Sister Ray.

Are we sure about that? We don't know or see what all the instruments and panels on that Sister Ray is, or what they can do. Clearly it isn't just one huge ass cannon strapped to all the mako reactors in Midgar. Apparently the damn thing has internet fucking access to all the computers in Midgar and all the way to fucking Junon. So :monster:



Well, they are two separate places. You could have the original Hojo's spirit in the Lifestream while the copy is in the network.

That's a pretty big claim to have only supported by a stupid fan fic that's not even referenced or looked at ever again by the creators.



Would be interesting to take a look at that again. I'm going to check it out when my copy of the 10th AU gets here, which should hopefully be in the next week or so.

Good! I want to know what it says about this too. I can't wait to be proven right. :monster:



I guess it's just the way I always heard him saying the line in my head. "Well, ya know Aerith, that one was totally mine."



I don't think she responded to him at all when he said it, actually.

Still pretty stupid. And yeah, that's totally cool of her to treat the guy she loved so much like shit in the after life. Cold shoulder and all. Yeeeeah.

And, in any case, I'm not arguing that it's canon. Just that it could work.

You could work. What do you think of that?



His expression when he was fading wasn't one of pain and hatred. It was calm, as was his voice.

Cause he was already dead, and he knew he was about to give up the ghost and go back to the hell he came back from. So he was at peace with it and didn't care anymore. His attitude is definitely going to change when going from being brutally beaten senseless, to finally actually passing on.

And I really don't see much of a difference between laughing while dying in one instance and making an empty promise to come back like Freddy Krueger in another.

Pretty big difference. In one, he's basically crying and looking like "WHY ME?!" while apparently laughing manically like Kefka.

In another he's just making a threat that despite his death, he will survive. In this instance his words match his expression at the time.



But you've said that you thought he was really exerting himself, only he wasn't allowing his image to reflect it.

That's basically making it look easy, yes.



Well, he was in pain and torment. But given that there's no voice acting, I can fanwank this shit as much as I like. :monster:

....Okay, your concession is accepted.



And confident that the world was his to rule. :awesome:

Yes, because he felt entitled. But that doesn't change the fact he's butthurt and pissed at Cloud, and things didn't go his way at all. He wasn't planning to die in the least.



I really don't see it as such. It just readds as uplifting and inspiring to me that she rallied the entire spirit of the planet to repel a threat. Doesn't mean she used all its energy to do that.

I'm sure that was the purpose of that passage, but it also gives the definitive impression that through her uplifting, and inspiring rallying of the souls, she's having them all mount a united effort against the Meteor. Which is wrong.



"In all depictions"? You mean all one of them? :awesome:

...AC/ACC says hi.



Wow, that was easy. :monster:

You're easy.
 

Isabella

Your Mom
@Terra:
I think Cloud and Aerith had a mutual attraction and romantic potential, but nothing ever came of it. I've personally never had a problem with people seeing it that way. I just chafe a bit when people say they had a full-blown romantic relationship going on, and that it's still going on now.

@Mako:
See my post to Tres.
 

Vendel

Banned
I agree with Zee's statement wherever the fuck you put it about Cloud/Aerith being past lovers/desire to be lovers/whatever the fuck you wanna say about that and Tifa and Cloud being current lovers.

With that, I'm going to hope the rabid clitosmore assertive folks who disbelieve in a Clerith relationship will not berate me for zomg proofz on that because I am tired and working two million hours a week. :awesome:

We the assertive members of this board will let this slide this time. But YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!
 

Ryushikaze

Deus Admiral Parsimonious, PHD, DDS, MD, JD, OBE
AKA
Tim, Ryu
I agree with Zee's statement wherever the fuck you put it about Cloud/Aerith being past lovers/desire to be lovers/whatever the fuck you wanna say about that and Tifa and Cloud being current lovers.

With that, I'm going to hope the rabid clitosmore assertive folks who disbelieve in a Clerith relationship will not berate me for zomg proofz on that because I am tired and working two million hours a week. :awesome:

That they were interested/ attracted is not in question. The idea that Cloud was in a relationship/ held amazing romantic love for Aerith- a woman he know for goddamn two weeks- is.
Cloud was probably attracted to Aerith- Barret and Cid almost certainly were as well- The Undead and nonhumans probably weren't, and as for the other ladies, who knows- she is an attractive woman after all, but that is not the same as falling for or even in love with someone. That is where the line here is drawn. There is nothing to suggest Cloud was more than interested, especially given the speed at which after her death he got together with Tifa, and affirmed his mutual feelings for her, etc.

So if you want to assert that there is a romantic love there, something beyond mere attraction or a passing interest, the sort of thing you can call real romantic passion, then that is why you need to show the evidence of it.
On the other hand, I ain't moving on the 'relationship' issue. You gotta know the other party is interested, for one.
 
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