LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[Tennyo]

Topic for discussion:

Does Cloud ever find out Aerith had romantic affections for him?

Never did. And if he did, he doesn't really respond to it, does he?

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

Topic for discussion: Does Cloud ever find out Aerith had romantic affections for him?

Good question.



While everyone's thinking about that, here's something else: I don't know what page it's from, but I was looking through some pictures I'd accumulated (I don't know where from or when; maybe Ryu or somebody else gave them to me at some point; they look like scans or photos that Sheila of rinoa.nu would have done) of random shots from the 20th Anniversary Ultimania File 2: Scenario, and there's yet another use of that familiar "confirmed/disclosed/communicated" line -- only it's another unique version:

そして、ふたり、きりになったクラウドとティファは、残された最後の時間で互いの想いを打ち明け合う。

"And when Cloud and Tifa remain behind alone, in their final hours, they disclose their matching feelings for each other."

If I'm reading that right, then that's basically saying the same thing as the line from pg. 27 of the Ultimania Omega -- only without "motomeru" and any conceivable means of interpreting that it meant "just sex, no love."

Like Fairheartstrife said about that previous quote -- though this one leaves even less wiggle room -- we know what Tifa's feelings are. So if Cloud's match hers, then that kind of seals the deal.

It looks like I've been sitting on something big without realizing it too.


By the way, I'm not sure how reliable this is, but I've also seen it claimed that there's a quote or two like this somewhere in one of the 20th Anniversary Ultimanias:

(Taken from here)
ティファと言葉にならない想いを確かめ合う

"Confirms matching feelings together with Tifa without words"

(Taken from here)
ティファのおかげで自分を取り戻したクラウドはセフィロスとの最後の戦いを前に言葉では伝えられない想いを彼女と確かめ合う

"Thanks to Tifa, Cloud returns, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, he confirms his matching feelings together with her without words."


Like I say, I don't know if those last two are even real, but it seems to be the claim. I'm seriously wishing I had that book right about now. XD

By the way, hilariously, these real live Japanese people refer to Cloti as "KuraTi" and there's a post in that second link that appears to be saying "This is bursting with Cloti." XD

 

[Ryushikaze]

It's interesting that even if the quotes aren't genuine, no one seems to say 'No, those are wrong' so they seem to be at least accurate enough paraphrases at the least.
Still, specific page numbers would definitely help.

 

[Madame Mayor]

Never did. And if he did, he doesn't really respond to it, does he?

(which is telling in itself).

You'd think then their meeting, after being apart for so long, would be some sort of romantic reveal.

When they are back-to-back, don't you think the first thing you'd want to say to the person who died and you never told them you loved them, or the person who saw you die and you never told them... is that you loved them?

Seems to work for both Cloud and Aerith really.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Like I've said before, the focus is seeking forgiveness, not romance, and if the focus IS romance, and with a dead person, you damn well have to be explicit about it.

Special pleading to the contrary notwithstanding, and I'm thinking of someone in specific, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Romance with dead people doesn't get a 'pass' because it's harder. It takes a penalty, like is reasonable.

 

[Vendel]

You'd think then their meeting, after being apart for so long, would be some sort of romantic reveal.

When they are back-to-back, don't you think the first thing you'd want to say to the person who died and you never told them you loved them, or the person who saw you die and you never told them... is that you loved them?

Seems to work for both Cloud and Aerith really.

EXACTLY!. Neither Cloud nor Aerith act like two lovers trying to reunite (or even confess) in ACC.

Edit: fuck Ryu....

 

[Isabella]

Topic for discussion:

Does Cloud ever find out Aerith had romantic affections for him?

You'd think he would have figured it out when Aerith asked Cait about their compatibility, though his reaction doesn't reveal much as I recall.

 

[Vendel]

By the way, hilariously, these real live Japanese people refer to Cloti as "KuraTi" and there's a post in that second link that appears to be saying "This is bursting with Cloti." XD

Oh there was definitely some CloTi bursting that night. Eh? EH?



And officially no Cloud doesn't catch on about Aerith. He was rather Sephy focused at the time. And you know, a total headcase.

 

[Dashell]

@ fan translations

I've tried to get them in, but all it did was end with us bickering back and forth. It wasn't getting us anywhere so I tried a different approach. Believe me, I realize I have no way to debate now and I realize I fell into a trap. It's just yelling and bickering and demanding I am allowed to use fan translations isn't going to get me anywhere especially when I've wanted to be able to debate with someone for so long. I'm gonna take what I can get.

As for why Hito isn't trusted... apparently the whole koibito thing was all his fault And Chibica doesn't force her translations on anyone... cause Hito totally does and Hito never says, "If I'm wrong you're welcome to show me" he says "ME ME ME IM RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT!"

 

[Isabella]

As for why Hito isn't trusted... apparently the whole koibito thing was all his fault And Chibica doesn't force her translations on anyone... cause Hito totally does and Hito never says, "If I'm wrong you're welcome to show me" he says "ME ME ME IM RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT!"

One could always dig up all the posts in which hito said he welcomes criticism and feedback. In fact, I could swear I've seen him say that directly to the person in question. But, it would be a waste of time, since the person you're debating has his mind made up. He has no interest in translations, really. He wants to be free to follow whatever fanciful notion he can come up with, without being hampered by inconvenient things like canon.

 

[Dashell]

I hate it when canon doesn't agree with me
and I'd feel more satisfied beating him at his own game

Also @ "confirmed feelings without words"
Epic win if that's real

 

[Isabella]

Also @ "confirmed feelings without words"
Epic win if that's real

In other words, with Cloud's silence and Tifa's tears.

 

[Celes Chere]

I'm more excited about the U20 saying that Aerith was indeed, in denial. How long has everyone been saying that...

 

[Madame Mayor]

I'm more excited about the U20 saying that Aerith was indeed, in denial. How long has everyone been saying that...

Because heaven forbid Aerith not be perfect and actually have some flaws that make her human.

It won't do anything though, they'll say her being in denial about his death has nothing to do with the love she has for Cloud... remember back at Gaia when we were using that "Aerith's feelings for Zack explain why she acts the way she does around Cloud in FFVII." quote? I still think that one pretty much destroys Clerith on Aerith's end at least.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I hate it when canon doesn't agree with me
and I'd feel more satisfied beating him at his own game

'His own game' is to obfuscate, prevaricate, change the rules, insist on unreasonable standards only for the other person, and if the other person manages to satisfy all that, shift the goalposts immediately.
You do realize his entire argument is based on two ludicrous assumptions-
1. Someone being used as an example to explain a general phenomenon is somehow an exception- he cites, by the way, OTHER EXCEPTIONS TO THE GENERAL PHENOMENON to say 'this isn't how it normally works'
2. That the phrase 'live in in their consciousness' is in ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM a literal or non figurative statement.

Also @ "confirmed feelings without words"
Epic win if that's real

Think it is. No one seemed to say 'It's not real' at the japanese link.

I'm more excited about the U20 saying that Aerith was indeed, in denial. How long has everyone been saying that...

Before CC at least.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Did someone call me a Clerith spy? How dare you? I'll have you know that as I read this Dissidia fic in Drakes sig, I find myself drifting towards Clerra

And as for still more statements of "mutual/matching feelings without words" and more "Aerith in denial about Zack" being epic win... well they were Epic Win the first time, and the next, and each on in and of itself is still. So if just one is Epic Win... what are they all together? I don't think they make a word strong enough.

 

[The Twilight Mexican]

and I'd feel more satisfied beating him at his own game

Which cannot be done.

@ fan translations

I've tried to get them in, but all it did was end with us bickering back and forth. It wasn't getting us anywhere so I tried a different approach. Believe me, I realize I have no way to debate now and I realize I fell into a trap. It's just yelling and bickering and demanding I am allowed to use fan translations isn't going to get me anywhere especially when I've wanted to be able to debate with someone for so long. I'm gonna take what I can get.

As for why Hito isn't trusted... apparently the whole koibito thing was all his fault And Chibica doesn't force her translations on anyone... cause Hito totally does and Hito never says, "If I'm wrong you're welcome to show me" he says "ME ME ME IM RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT!"

That you're not insisting your requester provide a goal post on the field instead of in the stands -- where you're not allowed to take the ball. As well as not insisting that said requester demand the team they root for use the same goal post, instead being happy to let them use the one in the end zone at the other end of the field.

Translation: Insist that he offer reasonable standards for the debate (and, yes, the inclusion of fan translations that can be vetted any time he acutally wants them to be is a reasonable standard), and also ask why Chibica's translations are never ran through the same "guilty until proven innocent" procedure.

And if the other party refuses, they have conceded defeat by default. You let them know it, and you don't waste your time.

 

[Winter]

Wait, what said Aerith was in denial...?

wat

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

U20, according to Celes. Haven't seen it personally, but I trust.

 

[Winter]

What is U20?

What would Aerith have been in denial about? :| Also, she has plenty of flaws, she's actually a very well-rounded character. Just because some Cleriths seem to be under the impression that she's a saint doesn't mean that we all think that, nor does it mean that it's true.

 

[Alessa Gillespie]

Ultimania 20...something or another, I have no idea.

 

[DrakeClawfang]

she's actually a very well-rounded character

Mmm, indeed she is.....oh, you mean her personality. Er, yeah, that too....

 

[Isabella]

She's in denial about her poor fashion sense.

Nah, this is how Ryu paraphrased it:

Aerith's profile talks about various things, including a big section on her first love Zack, and how because she sees Zack in Cloud, she finds favor in him, and how she cannot bring herself to see the truth of Zack's demise.

 

[Winter]

Ultimania 20...something or another, I have no idea.

Is it new or something?

 

[Isabella]

20th anniversary Ultimania. It's not really new, but most of it hasn't been translated yet.