LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[Isabella]

I didn't get the idea vendel is saying that, but I'm too lazy to go back and reread. :p

but I thought his point was that we see Zack with Aerith.

 

[Eerie]

Do I seriously need to post every time Cloud and Aerith walked together?

Was it to leave everyone for ever?

I'll give you the other two though, but ever heard, "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with?"

You DO realise how ironic this statement is, regarding Aerith and Cloud, RIGHT?

 

[Isabella]

Quex, what else are you basing your belief on, other than CoL? Just curious.

 

[Dashell]

You DO realise how ironic this statement is, regarding Aerith and Cloud, RIGHT?

....

FUCK I take back that statement. Never happened! Quex never said that...

Quex, what else are you basing your belief on, other than CoL? Just curious.

I've been drinking the Kool-aid too long
No but really, it just seemed that way to me. Now I could be wrong and tbh if it wasn't for CoLW I would have completely conceded on that point. It does seem like more and more is coming out to disprove my belief though >_<
(Also I haven't played Crisis Core, maybe that has something to do with it)

I didn't get the idea vendel is saying that, but I'm too lazy to go back and reread. :p

The point Q is that Aerith was not thinking about much of anything in the LS until she met sephy. "It had been awhile since she had worried".

and then in the same post:

The fact that Zack is with her kind of disproves that [she wasn't thinking about Zack].

 

[Isabella]

Key phrase being "until she met Sephy." Zack obviously wasn't with her before that.

 

[Dashell]

It was in response to me saying this:

If the argument is that she was still in love with Zack and another argument is that "She wasn't thinking about Cloud in the lifestream until she met up with Sephy so she can't be in love with him" you can't say she was in love with Zack either. She wasn't thinking of Zack at all in the lifestream.

So by his logic Zack was there when she was thinking about Cloud and she was thinking about him.
I mean okay if it wasn't clear I was talking about CoLW, I was. I just figured that would be obvious since I was talking about her thinking about Cloud and what not.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

After repeated requests, I see absolutely no explanation/justification for the contradiction we've seen in Vendel's argument. Likely because the two statements he made are mutually exclusive. Thus, I declare Win in my favor.

 

[Vendel]

I guess the ability to comprehend a linear time-line goes out the window when discussing a fictional characters love life/afterlife.

 

[Dashell]

No but apparently the ability to explain oneself further when asked does. I had been talking about CoLW, and I figured it'd be obvious that my post was about that.

So now... was Aerith thinking about Zack during CoLW?

 

[Isabella]

"She wasn't thinking about Cloud in the lifestream until she met up with Sephy so she can't be in love with him" you can't say she was in love with Zack either. She wasn't thinking of Zack at all in the lifestream.

Er, strawman.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

No mention of Zack in a story told entirely by Aerith's thoughts = No thoughts about Zack. I always assumed Aerith had pulled him back to individuality like she did the other Ancients, to help with the situation. I agree, from there ZXA becomes possible again, but prior to that I don't think they'd even run into each other again.

 

[Vendel]

This is what you said Q.

She wasn't thinking of Zack at all in the lifestream.

And I responded in kind. Aerith never leaves the lifestream. Zack is with Aerith. Thus the notion that she never thinks about him is downright silly.

And here I said I wasn't going to hand-hold. I guess I contradicted myself.

 

[Dashell]

Er, strawman.

No dude people have said to me that she only thought about Cloud when she met Sephy when I've brought up that CoLW is all about Cloud. What is the point about telling me she only think of Cloud when she meets Seph then? I'm missing something obviously.

I guess I contradicted myself.

..lol
Now was that so hard?

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

This is what you said Q.



And I responded in kind. Aerith never leaves the lifestream. Zack is with Aerith. Thus the notion that she never thinks about him is downright silly.

And here I said I wasn't going to hand-hold. I guess I contradicted myself.

^Anyone who misses the irony of this one is incredibly thick.

 

[Isabella]

No dude people have said to me that she only thought about Cloud when she met Sephy when I've brought up that CoLW is all about Cloud. What is the point about telling me she only think of Cloud when she meets Seph then? I'm missing something obviously.

I'm the one that brought that up and I wasn't using that as evidence that she doesn't love Cloud in fact I specified I wasn't saying that. My point is that her level of consiousness seems to be altered due to the fact that she's dead. I don't think she's sitting around mooning over Cloud OR Zack, or really preoccupied with her earthly concerns at all. She doesn't think of Cloud until she runs into Seph, not because she doesn't love him but because her existence has altered. Get what I'm saying? So I think she needs some sort of prompt to think about Zack the same way she did with Cloud. At least, that's the theory I'm going with this late at night.

And because it bears repeating now and again:
"Aerith's feelings for Zack explain why she acts the way she does around Cloud in FFVII." -- CC Ultimania

 

[Vendel]

Q, EbG. Don't celebrate your inability to comprehend.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

She wasn't thinking of Zack at all in the lifestream during CoLSW.

Fixed that for you Q.

 

[Dashell]

Interesting theory... not sure if it can be proven, but it's kind of neat. I see your point, but... well you aren't the first to bring it up and I don't think that's what everyone who's said this to me has meant

Q, EbG. Don't celebrate your inability to comprehend.

no u

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Q, EbG. Don't celebrate your inability to comprehend.

I'm not, I'm celebrating my victory by default since you never could make an argument about your contrary statements of "Aerith not thinking" and "Aerith automatically thinks about Zack". And your continuing lack of comment on it, plus your ironic use of the words "I guess I contradicted myself" upgrades my Win to Epic Win.

 

[Makoeyes987]

ITT: Baby girls who have to be held by the hand in a debate.

For fuck's sake, the fact ZACK is with AERITH in the LIFESTREAM, a literal stream of fucking consciousness, means that Aerith has to have been thinking about him, to have his thoughts/spirit energy be around her. It's a fucking contradiction to say she never thinks of Zack, if Zack is always by her side. Because if he is, that means the thoughts/mental/spirit energy of ZACK are being brought towards Aerith.

Capiche?

 

[Homura Akemi]

I wonder if this will reach 500 or more pages...I bet Zack and aerith get bored in the lifestream, I know I would

 

[Dashell]

ITT: Baby girls who have to be held by the hand in a debate.

That was really uncalled for. Seriously, comments like this are what keep Cleriths from coming here and I don't blame them. I was talking about Case of Lifestream white when making my arguments and I wasn't the only one who misunderstood. Forgive me for thinking I made myself clear when I said she didn't think about Zack in CoLW when he's never fucking mentioned.

Of course she EVENTUALLY thinks about him, but christ I wasn't the only one who misunderstood.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

No, not capiche.

I agree, Zack is in the lifestream. He is part of the same swell of spirit energy that Aerith is. She, being a Cetra, is guaranteed not to fade into that swell until she wants to. Zack as a single person on the other hand may be long gone by now, until Aerith brings him back for assistance. The simple fact that they are both in the lifestream does not mean Aerith is required to be thinking of him at all. And, my point that was never addressed, is that it is impossible for Aerith to simultaneously not think about anything, and automatically be thinking about Zack.

I still contend, CoLSW was entirely told through Aerith's thoughts, and Zack isn't mentioned once. This to me says, during CoLSW, Aerith did not think about Zack at all.

AFTER CoLSW, possibly before then, but not during.

 

[Dashell]

Give it up, EG, we're babies who don't understand apparently.

 

[Makoeyes987]

That was really uncalled for. Seriously, comments like this are what keep Cleriths from coming here and I don't blame them. I was talking about Case of Lifestream white when making my arguments and I wasn't the only one who misunderstood. Forgive me for thinking I made myself clear when I said she didn't think about Zack in CoLW when he's never fucking mentioned.

Of course she EVENTUALLY thinks about him, but christ I wasn't the only one who misunderstood.

Wow...apparently you've drank so much of the kool-aid you lost your sense of humor too.

No, not capiche.

I agree, Zack is in the lifestream. He is part of the same swell of spirit energy that Aerith is. She, being a Cetra, is guaranteed not to fade into that swell until she wants to. Zack as a single person on the other hand may be long gone by now, until Aerith brings him back for assistance. The simple fact that they are both in the lifestream does not mean Aerith is required to be thinking of him at all. And, my point that was never addressed, is that it is impossible for Aerith to simultaneously not think about anything, and automatically be thinking about Zack.

I still contend, CoLSW was entirely told through Aerith's thoughts, and Zack isn't mentioned once. This to me says, during CoLSW, Aerith did not think about Zack at all.

AFTER CoLSW, possibly before then, but not during.

...Wait, you're a girl?

First point I'll address is, where does it say Aerith was the one that caused Zack to manifest himself in the lifestream?

And second, how can Zack always be by her side, if by your assertion, Zack was no where around in Lifestream White?