LTD, round 3: This time, we settle it with Jello Wrestling

[Vendel]

And, my point that was never addressed, is that it is impossible for Aerith to simultaneously not think about anything, and automatically be thinking about Zack.

And the fact that you think this needs to be addressed is telling.

 

[Isabella]

And we weren't limiting the discussion to CoL the way you two were.

There. Misunderstanding solved.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Oh, I thought I was included because I was also arguing the point, and was most vocal with the lack of response to my points. And that 'girls' was being used in an insulting fashion like unto "bitchy little girls."

My statement still stands.

 

[Dashell]

Wow...apparently you've drank so much of the kool-aid you lost your sense of humor too.

Uh yeah there are lines that can be crossed.

And we weren't limiting the discussion to CoL the way you two were.

There. Misunderstanding solved.

Yup, I had figured this out...

 

[Makoeyes987]

Oh, I thought I was included because I was also arguing the point, and was most vocal with the lack of response to my points. And that 'girls' was being used in an insulting fashion like unto "bitchy little girls."

My statement still stands.

No, I meant the literal gender.

Maybe you're not aware of the point I'm raising, so I'll point you toward Aerith Gainsborough's ACC Dengeki profile, done by S-E. It's also the same as her 10th Anniversary one. Here it is.

The point we're referring to most is...

She joined the Lifestream, but even then she carries on watching over the planet and Cloud. At all times, her first love Zack is always by her side.

This was published around the same time as Lifestream White and Black.

 

[Dashell]

I would say he's always with her in spirit but I don't think that works here.. or wait maybe it does but she's a spirit too...

 

[Makoeyes987]

I would say he's always with her in spirit but I don't think that works here.. or wait maybe it does but she's a spirit too...

How much more literal, and direct does the quote have to be?

They're slamming the reader over the head with a spiked sledgehammer to drive home the point ZACK IS ALWAYS WITH AERITH IN THE GREEN GOO OF LIFE.

ALWAYS. AT ALL TIMES. Do you see how many times they emphasize the totality of time Zack is with Aerith? By her side?

I don't think its a metaphorical statement at all. It's definitive to the point of hilarity.

 

[Dashell]

See? Now you've lost YOUR sense of humor

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Q, since she's a Cetra she can automatically be an individual presence as a spirit, while normal people can only do this through intense focus on someone who is not dead plus the sacrifice of a shitload of their memory. So I don't think Zack always being by her side invalidates our points in and of itself.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Q, since she's a Cetra she can automatically be an individual presence as a spirit, while normal people can only do this through intense focus on someone who is not dead plus the sacrifice of a shitload of their memory. So I don't think Zack always being by her side invalidates our points in and of itself.

Wrong. See the Gi Tribe, and the men who died in the Beginner's Hall and reappeared as ghosts in Junon. Cetra are not the only ones who can do it. They're just better at it.

And yes, it does invalidate your points. Because again, how is it Aerith is not thinking of, or interacting with Zack at all, with Zack "at all times," at Aerith's side.."always?"

You're not acknowledging the fact the text is literally stating, quite deliberately, and definitively, Zack and Aerith are joined at the hip in death. There is no reconciliation that Aerith isn't thinking of Zack, with Zack and Aerith always together.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

The Gi Tribe stayed as they were because they focused on intense hatred of the people at Cosmo Canyon. The Learner Hall guy did it by focusing on his desire to learn. Sephiroth did it by focusing on hating Cloud. This was essentially my point, the Cetra can just do it, other folks have to focus on something to the point of obsession. Unless we're saying Zack had done this, then he was just another part of the lifestream when Aerith died. Considering that, the part of the lifestream that is he can be with her and her not even realize it, thus she has no reason in particular to think about him.

But, I am getting offended, and thus will be conceding just so this can end. I retract my earlier statements of Win and leave it to the people who know better than I to pick the next topic.

 

[Isabella]

She's giving him the silent treatment, for eternity. Oh wait. You have to think about someone to ignore them.

I'm not even sure what the point is anymore. You guys are arguing that she doesn't think about him, is that it?

 

[Dashell]

No I think it's whether or not Zack is a consciousness like Aerith or whether he's more just the lifestream.

But yah, I don't wish to debate this particular subject any longer..

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I wasarguing that his mere presence in the Lifestream and always with her does not explicitly state that she will think of him or even be aware of him without a reason.

I kinda lost track about where that came from, exactly, something about Aerith still using the word koibito to describe Cloud as a person she loves during CoLSW. I should say this does not, in anyway, reduce my feeling that Aerith does love Zack. Maybe she's poly?

 

[Vendel]

I thought the big thing was "VENDEL MADE A CONTRADICTION". Or rather some people didn't understand the point. And made a big fucking deal about it. And even after explaining it step by step, the issue kept getting brought up.

Or have we moved past that?

 

[Dashell]

We're past that.

 

[Isabella]

Well, we know that she's resurrected him during the time AC takes place at the very least. How long she keeps him around we don't know. Frankly, I'm not convinced she sticks around much longer after the threat of Seph is removed. You'd think she wouldve helped in DoC if she were still around.

 

[Vendel]

We're past that.

Well it was a really big fucking deal for EbG. I just want to be sure.

 

[Loxetta]

*lol late*

Zack can still be alongside her and doesn't necessarily need to be talked about in CoLW. Someone else said it and I cba to find it, but Zack is safe and sound where he is so there's no reason for Aerith to worry about him in the novella, where the focus is on Sephiroth's angry hard-on for Cloud. It would have felt a bit out of place to mention it in the novella.

"Oh btw, the woman is still in love with her ex, but he's not important right now, moving on."



EDIT: God I hate this thread. Everyone on this site must post 3000 words a minute or some shit.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Jesus, its like Isabella's the goddess of parsimony and common sense here.

Even if you try and say she's ignoring Zack, you still have to think about what you're ignoring which then kills the point she's not thinking about him.

The Gi Tribe stayed as they were because they focused on intense hatred of the people at Cosmo Canyon. The Learner Hall guy did it by focusing on his desire to learn. Sephiroth did it by focusing on hating Cloud. This was essentially my point, the Cetra can just do it, other folks have to focus on something to the point of obsession. Unless we're saying Zack had done this, then he was just another part of the lifestream when Aerith died. Considering that, the part of the lifestream that is he can be with her and her not even realize it, thus she has no reason in particular to think about him.

Zack can't focus on his desire to see Cloud succeed, and how he cares about him? Here's what Zack's 10th Anniversary Ultimania profile says on the subject.

In order to help Cloud recover, he assured him from the Lifestream together with Aerith.

And then, his Dengeki Profile on ACC.

Even after defeating Sephiroth and regaining his true self, images and memories of Zack turned to a sense of guilt which continued to torment Cloud. Suffering from this, images of Zack appear in his consciousness time and again. Zack will later become one of the driving forces to help Cloud move forward on his own feet.

As Cloud put an end to Sephiroth and broke that curse, Zack was there by his side, seeing him through.

Zack manifesting to Cloud has nothing to do with how the Gi or the Beginner's Hall folks resist diluting. It has everything to do with Zack's desire to help Cloud, and Cloud's own guilt resonating with his consciousness.

And again, how can Aerith not be aware of Zack's continued presence right beside Aerith? If he's always there, she must be aware of it. If she's ignoring him, she must be thinking about him? Things don't manifest or appear in the Lifestream unless you actually bring them to mind, as the lifestream is one large stream of consciousness. If two spiritual beings are interacting with each other, there must be some sort of association between the two.

So I'm not sure how he can be by her side...and she not be thinking about him.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

I seem to recall conceding this point earlier, despite feeling I still had a point, just so this could end. Now, Mako, thank you, giving me something Zack could be focusing on from the very moment he died (that being Cloud's success) goes a long way toward legitimately killing my point, and I thank you for having this real argument rather than a shitty "you're wrong". Thank you. We can agree to disagree that just because the bare remnant of someone is right beside you in the LS means you have to be aware of them. I mean, I am sure there are bugs in my house, but until I started to think of a metaphor for my post I wasn't thinking about them. Not ignoring them, so much as entirely unaware of them until given a reason to consider it.

Vendel, on the other hand, can go fuck himself.

 

[Vendel]

Vendel, on the other hand, can go fuck himself.

I told you not to celebrate it. You did. Live with it.

 

[Strangelove]

I like to breed teal deers.

Are you shitting me?

It says that second one is in a section called 『愛する人のために』 (For the one love), about the romance between the characters. I don't know if this is what the book is meant to say, but it sounds like it. To paraphrase:

…長い旅を通じて築かれる主人公たちの恋愛感情。
時には二人が引き裂かれることもあるがお互いを大事に想っていれば
どんな難局でも乗り越えていけるという気持ちは彼らに大きな力を与えてくれる。

There are times when the couples are torn apart but their feelings for each other, that as long as they care for one another they can overcome any obstacle, gives them tremendous strength.

That kind of sounds like the C/A view to me. But then they go and list only the date scene ("At the Gold Saucer, Cloud receives an invitation from one of the team. Who shows up at his door is determined by Cloud's actions up until that point.") and the Highwind scene (second quote in Tres' post).

It's went they keep saying stuff like that that ruins the idea of any continual C/A romance for me.

One could always dig up all the posts in which hito said he welcomes criticism and feedback.

I've said it so many times it's like a really boring catchphrase.

I wonder how hard I would have to work to make this theory halfway logical

Have you read some of the theories people come up with?

The most work you have to do is "open a bottle of liquour" or "light a crack pipe". The rest takes care of itself.


Also this thread gets too many posts.

all of a sudden Aerith is just gonna burst out of Cloud's chest, leaving her parasite babies behind

Spoiler: You all know where this is going

 

[Isabella]

Jesus, its like Isabella's the goddess of parsimony and common sense here.

You guys want to change the subject? Let's talk about how this is the most insightful sentence in this whole thread.

edit: Oh. Dear. God. What. Is. That.

 

[Gym Leader Devil]

Alright then. Thanks for trying to warn me. You could have just said "I am not speaking exclusively about CoLSW" sooner than you did, or made a convincing statement like Mako did, rather than responding as you did and then coming off with statements like "it was really fucking important to EbG" and it would have gone much easier for everyone.