Mass Effect Series

[Mantichorus]

First, a minor oops. Retribution is a different ME title, the ongoing is called Foundation.

WHERE CAN I READ THEM YOU JUST SAID SOMETHING ABOUT A GAY SPACE HUSBAND

Well, I bought the first issue from my friendly neighbourhood comics importers. You could probably buy it from Forbidden Planet here in the UK.

Otherwise, you can buy a digital copy direct from Dark Horse, which is probably cheaper due to UK import charges: http://www.darkhorse.com/Comics/20-462/Mass-Effect-Foundation-1

 

[Carlie]

Retribution is about the origins of Jack Harper aka The Illusive Man.

 

[Mantichorus]

And

Spoiler

Saren's first exposure to a Reaper artefact, and the origin for his hatred of humans

... so yeah, Retribution is about how a lot of the shit Shepard wades through got started.

 

[Carlie]

Spoiler

Saren's reasons are rather bogus since he was already a massive racist even before his brother died.

 

[Mantichorus]

Everyone was racist in the First Contact War. Still, I love the pre-combat banter Anderson recalls in Citadel.

"How's your mother?"
"Fine, why'd you ask?"
"I heard she was so ugly, some marines mistook her for a turian and shot her."
"Hell Anderson, I heard it was your mother that started the war. The turians saw her picture and shit themselves."

 

[Ami]

So I finally finished Mass Effect 2 on Insanity last night. Carlie, Masa and Marcus (Lex too at a later point) heard my bitching and ranting, although I'm sure how loud I really was.

Spoiler: The suicide mission is as it said it was.

Because I lost Kasumi, Tali, Mordin and Grunt. Might have lost Thane too, as there were five bodies during the final scene. Carlie was practically screaming down my ear for not completing all the loyalty missions.

If I'm honest, I wanted my Insanity run to be quick and also to royally fuck Miranda, the latter of which was so saucy! It took four attempts to finish the final final battle. Harbringer was such a bitch.

I'm going to be starting Mass Effect 3 shortly at last! It feels like I'm playing major catchup.

 

[Carlie]

You let Kasumi die, you don't deserve that platinum trophy for ME2 you bitch.

 

[ForceStealer]

Spoiler

Screw Kasumi and her hating me for doing what was best for her.

/will not let it go

 

[null]

That sucks if that's your only ME2 career... otherwise I'd load up a save near Horizon, set it to Casual and go Usain Bolt through all the loyalty missions.

 

[Mantichorus]

You really want to do another run before ME3. Really. Because, without Tali, you have to commit genocide on one people or another.

 

[Lex]

Spoiler

Screw Kasumi and her hating me for doing what was best for her.

/will not let it go

That's really your opinion of what was best for her though . I think we can safely say the two of you would not be friends if she wasn't a fictional character.

 

[Lex]

You really want to do another run before ME3. Really. Because, without Tali, you have to commit genocide on one people or another.

Whoops, missed this.

She'll be taking her original save file forward, not the one she lazied and killed everyone on. I know, I know she'll be a lower level and stuff, but she doesn't care

Me and Carlie have beaten down this path already.

 

[Carlie]

Spoiler

Screw Kasumi and her hating me for doing what was best for her.

/will not let it go

Spoiler

Do you mean destroying the graybox? Because I've always done that and aside from some hesitation of her at first she lets Shep do it and she's cool with the decision when you talk to her back on the Normandy.

Me and Carlie have beaten down this path already.

Indeed.

 

[ForceStealer]

(All spoilers regard MEs 2 and 3) And I'm afraid I got confused and meant Tali and then confused everyone, sorry. Haha, I got no problems with Kasumi, I used her a lot in 2.

Spoiler

Do you mean destroying the graybox? Because I've always done that and aside from some hesitation of her at first she lets Shep do it and she's cool with the decision when you talk to her back on the Normandy.

Spoiler

I mean not letting Tali be exiled for what her father did and my paragon/renegade was not high enough to talk out of it. Yes, I know you can get around that in other ways but I don't cheat on my first play through.

Spoiler

That's really your opinion of what was best for her though . I think we can safely say the two of you would not be friends if she wasn't a fictional character.

Spoiler

Not in Tali's case. The events of ME3 confirm that my opinion is 100% correct.
#1 - it really is ridiculous that she should be exiled to protect the name of her father when what he did was wrong, and while he's dead but she has so much more to accomplish.
#2 - In Mass Effect 3 she apologized and flat-out TOLD ME I was correct in what I did, because had she been exiled she wouldn't have been able to help them in the current situation. But despite that, I still couldn't save both races because she was petulant in ME2.

I should have been able to plead my case with her in ME2 and make her understand without being permanently punished both in loyalty in ME2 and the decision in ME3. But all you can do in ME2 after the fact is grovel and say you were wrong :/

 

[AvecAloes]

Spoiler

You mean Tali, Force, not Kasumi. Kasumi was freaking awesome.

 

[Lex]

Spoiler: Tali stuff from ME2

I don't hold any of that against Tali because she begs you not to do it and - justified or not - if that was a real life situation I'd have to respect her wishes. I'd probably be damn pissed off too if I had begged a friend not to reveal information about my deceased father that would change the opinion of my entire race from thinking he's a hero to thinking he's a criminal on the basis that it was "for my own good".

No matter how professional and goal-focused my Shepard is, ignoring her dire wish seems far too cold to me. I'd wait until they hauled her ass off to jail and then tell her it's not worth it for a dead man, but that's never necessary anyway. I've kind of always failed to see your point on this one Force .

 

[ForceStealer]

Spoiler

And yet, she apologizes to me in ME3 and tells me I was right. That she was so instrumental in what was happening with the Quarians, to have respected her wishes would have put them in a much worse situation and tortured her for being unable to help. (the fact that ME3 would have managed to more or less hit the reset button on things regardless is irrelevant)

She was being emotional and not thinking things through. That's understandable, but that wasn't worth being exiled for. That moment of vindication was wonderful. The fact that it still prevents me from saving both races is what pisses me off.

 

[Lex]

The thing is,

Spoiler

it doesn't really matter what you do in the game choice-wise, you're kind of always told it was the right decision. For example, blowing up the council at the end of Mass Effect 1 is in the long run not the right thing to do due to the repercussions of that action, but no one ever pops up and says "you made the wrong decision when you saved those civilians".

Similarly, if you kill Wrex in ME1 no one ever says that was the wrong decision either. They see it the way you saw it when you made the choice, which is "Wrex is too dangerous and needs to be eliminated". That's how all the choices work in Mass Effect aside from the choice to save or destroy the human reaper at the end of Mass Effect 2, that's probably the only one where your entire crew are united in saying "oh shit, why did you do that".

So yeah, Tali will back you in ME3 whatever her opinion is if she survives ME2. Just as Shepard should back her when she needs it

 

[ForceStealer]

Spoiler

Tali is ONLY okay with it in ME3 if you let her get exiled because she gets to help the Quarians anyway because ME3 did that with all of your big decisions. If she was truly exiled, I don't think she'd be very pleased at having been so determined to protect her father's reputation.

I suppose the renegade point of view of telling the truth is that the Reapers are gonna come kill everyone, and Tali working with the Quarians makes them the most prepared. Whereas the reputation of some dead guy does Shepard no good.

But that really wasn't my motivation. I wasn't going to allow a friend to be kicked out of her home (and have her reputation ruined) for the sake of someone already dead that deserved a bad reputation. Maybe if the decision would have resulted in her father being executed or something, that'd be one thing. And yes, you should respect your friends' wishes, but there's a limit. I'm not going to respect a friends wish that is clearly a wish made without thinking and does them irreparable harm, and I don't think that's cold.

 

[Ami]

Yeah, I already completed ME2 once and have imported it over to ME3. First impressions? The melee attack is finally useful. The graphics are smoother. More action!

Spoiler

I don't like James ... so far. Be proud of me, Carlie!

I like that the Normandy was mostly kept the same from ME2.

Spoiler

AND MY POOR BABY KAIDEN, HE'S IN A COMA.

Spoiler: Regarding Tali,

I respected her wishes and didn't reveal her father's crimes. I'm with Lex on this one. I'm sure I wouldn't want people to know, it's no one else's business as far as I'd be concerned.

 

[ForceStealer]

Spoiler

#1 - I wouldn't think crimes committed by my father count as "nobody else's business."

#2 - Even if it was nobody else's business. You'd be willing to be regarded as a traitor and exiled from the only home you've known and that you've been fighting to protect?

 

[Ami]

Spoiler

#1 - If no one knows, then it isn't.

#2 - See, the thing is, I don't get why Tali would be regarded as a traitor. It might just be a quarian thing, but just because her father commits crimes doesn't mean she's done something without cold hard evidence. And see, if Tali was considered a traitor in that respect, it's why I had Shepard keep this info to herself and respect her wishes. Plus, the traitor part would only crop up if it was actually presented to the quarians.

 

[Lex]

Spoiler

#1 - They count as "nobody elses business" if everyone is dead and the only people who know are his grieving daughter and her commanding officer.

#2 - That's for Tali to decide, not anybody else. If she's willing to be branded a traitor to protect her father's reputation it's up to her, and it's up to her to realise how wrong that is. You can't force a person to work through their grief and see clearly on the day they find their dead father.

 

[Mantichorus]

Spoiler: Regarding Tali...

even my Renegade Shepard handed Veetor over to Tali, and both playthroughs I killed the Colossus with heavy weaponry from the control room, so Reegar's never in danger...

So I just rally the crowd. It's the best damn option anyway. I took the Paragon option last time and... reloaded so I could officially finish it by rallying the crowd. It's more satisfying.

 

[ForceStealer]

Spoiler

#2 - See, the thing is, I don't get why Tali would be regarded as a traitor. It might just be a quarian thing, but just because her father commits crimes doesn't mean she's done something without cold hard evidence. And see, if Tali was considered a traitor in that respect, it's why I had Shepard keep this info to herself and respect her wishes. Plus, the traitor part would only crop up if it was actually presented to the quarians.

Spoiler

Huh? No, she gets exiled for being a traitor if you don't submit the evidence because the Quarians believe she was shipping live Geth to the fleet to...take over that one ship? I'm not sure what they thought she was trying to do, the Quarians are idiots.
But she was sending inert Geth parts and her father was reviving them without telling her in experiments and they eventually took over the ship.

Spoiler

#1 - They count as "nobody elses business" if everyone is dead and the only people who know are his grieving daughter and her commanding officer.

Spoiler

This I honestly don't remember, was no one else killed in this? Was her father really the only one on that whole ship? If not, it is absolutely the business of the families of anyone else killed. But if he really had a ship and a geth research lab to himself then, I guess... I refer to my earlier point about Quarians.

Spoiler

#2 - That's for Tali to decide, not anybody else. If she's willing to be branded a traitor to protect her father's reputation it's up to her, and it's up to her to realise how wrong that is. You can't force a person to work through their grief and see clearly on the day they find their dead father.

Spoiler

So, to take your argument to it's logical extreme - what if Tali asked Shepard to help her commit suicide and cover it up so neither of them would be disgraced? Can you force a person to work through their grief and see clearly on the day they find their dead father in that case?
Slightly less extreme, what if she wanted you to help her implicate someone else entirely? Maybe blame someone else on that ship if there were one? Everyone's dead, who would know, right?

Spoiler: Regarding Tali...

even my Renegade Shepard handed Veetor over to Tali, and both playthroughs I killed the Colossus with heavy weaponry from the control room, so Reegar's never in danger...

So I just rally the crowd. It's the best damn option anyway. I took the Paragon option last time and... reloaded so I could officially finish it by rallying the crowd. It's more satisfying.

Spoiler

What does the first part have to do with anything? I may well be forgetting something.

As for rallying the crowd, that's great. But you can't do that without a high enough renegade score, and that's what we're discussing.


I would also point out, that if I were actually in this scenario - or if ME was some kind of Holodeck where I could always control what Shepard says. I wouldn't be so dickish as to not say anything to Tali before the trial and then outing her father. I would likely argue against lying and exile to her much more vehemently laying out every point I've said here. If she still insisted on going through with it, I'd probably say I want no part in it and let her cover it up herself and I'd wait for her back on the ship.