Naruto Anime/Manga (Manga Spoilers Not Tagged) [WSJ]

[X-SOLDIER]

First of all, Mifune's katana "Kurosawa" is a Meitou. Interestingly enough the One Piece wiki has one of the better definitions. Without know that, this chapter is a bit tough to understand.

The Samurai masks are finally explained to breathe in the poison gas without injury. It's also interesting that there used to be a larger Samurai culture that was eventually overtaken by the Shinobi. I like that Mifune's Iaijutsu is specifically useful for being able to prevent Shinobi from performing handseals, and using Ninjustu. It makes their combat tactics interesting, and gives the Samurai a way to overcome the Shinobi's other abilities.

It's interesting that Chiyo isn't attacking, but is just assisting the squad. I think that they kinda lucked out there. Although you only see him from a distance, I think that the Samurai will have a tough time stopping Kimimaro, since he's very well versed in unique blade-based close combat.

Ibuse the Salamander, has a 5 minute limit on generating poison, and I was expecting that to come into play, it seems like it may have been killed by Mifune. I'm rather surprised by how badass Mifune is, but I think that a lot of this chapter shows that Hanzou really isn't the devastatingly powerful Shinobi he once was, because he can't see his own weaknesses. The flasback of him being killed by pain is evidence enough of that. Mifune managed a hell of a hit, shattering Hanzou's mask, but the Impure World Resurrection immortality may become problematic, because we don't know if the Samurai actually have a way to stop them.

For a chapter about Asuma's Team, we didn't really see anything from them, so I think that their choice of title was a bit odd.


That all being said, the character polls are always interesting: It always amazes me that Iruka still makes it into every single one. Aside from that, I had NO idea that Deidara was at ALL popular, but I was pleased that aside from the Akatsuki/Kage that Shikamaru & Hinata are the next highest (Yay to both fandoms). I was incredibly surprised that Sai is tied for last place with Sakura.

• 1st: Naruto (6880)
• 2nd: Sasuke (5791)
• 3rd: Kakashi (4828)
• 4th: Gaara (4239)
• 5th: Itachi (4011)
• 6th: Deidara (3623)
• 7th: Minato (3477)
• 8th: Sasori (3152)
• 9th: Shikamaru (2533)
• 10th: Hinata (2517)
• 11th: Iruka (2494)
• 12th: Sakura (2188)
• 12th: Sai (2188)


X

 

[Dana Scully]

Sasuke's popularity never ceases to amaze me.

 

[Elisa Maza]

I, for once, am glad that Naruto is no 1 again. This character deserves it like WHOA.

Boo to Sasuke.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

The mention of the Samurai-Ninja transition is interesting. I'm currently working on the timeline now and Jiraiya mentions that the Sage of the Six Paths invented ninjutsu. That was so long ago that Kakashi thinks the Sage of the Six Paths is a myth.

Mifune's katana drawing technique is almost identical to Ruroni Kenshin's (quick-draw, slash, re-sheath). Although, I'm wondering how effective it would be against someone with a sharingan. If they can predict where the blade will go and when, then they would have the advantage against Mifune. It works against almost everybody else though.

Here's a bit of the Time-line I have so far. It's not done yet, so don't worry if events are missing. Because there is no dating system in Naruto, I dicided to use Naruto's birth year as year 0. (It made the math easier.) The numbers next to events are the years before that.

• The Valley of the End, Hashiram vs. Madara (more details later)
• Hashirama splits the bijuu between the hidden villages

76 Kakuzu born

• Kakuzu is ordered by the Takigakure to kill Hashirama and fails

60 Danzou born

56 Sarutobi Hiruzen born

The First Secret War

• Konoha and Kumo are on opposite sides
• Hashirama dies and his brother Senju Tobirama become Nidaime Hokage
• Tobirama dies and Sarotobi Hiruzen becomes Sandaime Hokage

38 Orochimaru born
Jiraiya born
Tsunade born

20 Sasori born

The Second Secret War

• Konoha is fighting against Kumo, Iwa, and Ame
• Hanzo gains power in Ame
• The Sannin become (in)famous
• Sasori's parents are killed
• Nawaki and Dan die
• Tsunade gains her fear of blood
• Jiraiya trains Nagato, Yahiko and Konan

Tell me what you think of it. Don't worry, I'm not done. I've got a lot more to add.

 

[Splintered]

That all being said, the character polls are always interesting: It always amazes me that Iruka still makes it into every single one. Aside from that, I had NO idea that Deidara was at ALL popular, but I was pleased that aside from the Akatsuki/Kage that Shikamaru & Hinata are the next highest (Yay to both fandoms). I was incredibly surprised that Sai is tied for last place with Sakura.

Hinata was always hugely popular, I think Sakura only caught up with her once (besides the times in which Hinata was not in the manga at the beginning). It's sad being a Sakura fan

I'm surprised Sai caught up at all. American fandom wasn't too nice to him, and the last time they had a popularity poll, he was just introduced so he wasn't on the ballot. He's barely been in since the Penis arc, but I guess Japan liked him.

Deidara was in the top 5 last popularity poll as well irc.

 

[Frostwave]

I like Sasuke. He's problee one of my favorite characters.

Cool that Sai made the list.

Huh, I think Hidan is the only Naruto character I actively dislike.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

I find it funny how Team 7 is at either end of the list.

 

[Kobato]

Sasuke's popularity never ceases to amaze me.

This ^

Sasuke has been nothing but a psycho douchebag, and yet he still manages to be poplaur. He wanted to kill Naruto and even Sakura, the girl that grew up loving him. And then he later treats Karin like dog shit, somebody who worshiped him.
I used to like Sasuke and feel sorry for him, but honestly if you know what pain is like, why they hell would you deliver that kinda pain to other people ? It's just plain arrogant, self-centered and selfish.

Sasuke rant over.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Spoiler: X's "Why Sasuke is awesome rant"

One of the reasons that I really like Sasuke, is how well he's been developed as an elitist, flawed character. His entire motivation was poured into killing his brother. He went to absolutely insane lengths of whatever it took to get strong enough to make that happen. All throughout Naruto he's one of the most single-mindedly devoted characters introduced, and he was willing to lose everything to accomplish his goal.

When he finally accomplishes what he'd worked his entire life to do, Tobi/Madara flipped his feeling of success on its face, and left him with this haunting emptiness and hatred. He's cut all of his ties with everyone he's cared for, and now he's fueled on the only thing he knows any more, which is revenge at the expense of anyone/anything else. He wants to be justified and he's doing it the only way he knows how any more. He's still single-mindedly devoted to his goal, and to him since nothing else in the world was a precious to him as his brother, he won't spare ANYONE who gets in his way.

When he and Naruto last met, Naruto made the observation that if things had gone just a little bit differently, they would be in each other's places. This is one of the most significant points of the series: Sasuke's not intentionally just going around being a dick to everyone, he's ignoring (or forgotten) every other emotion to use his hatred to fueling his revenge, just like he was when he abandoned Konoha, but now Naruto understands it. While Naruto has gone from being almost destroyed by loneliness to growing and being supported by everyone around him. Sasuke always kept himself isolated, because he only wanted to achieve his one goal, and knew what it was like having everything taken away from him. When he discovers that this goal was a lie and he finds out found out that he'd been manipulated into murdering the one person who'd cared for him more than anything and he'd already intentionally cut himself off from everyone else who cared for him, he's become sucked into a hole of everything that's ever hurt him, (which is being carefully manipulated by Tobi/Madara).

While Naruto represents how everything in the Ninja world can make something good, Sasuke represents how the ninja world can create something terrible. He's the ultimate foil that Naruto has to overcome, which is why if Naruto can't save him, there's no hope for his Way of the Ninja, and that's why he'd die to stop him. Sasuke's not evil, he's not a selfish dick, he's just 100% completely consumed by revenge against anything that ever caused his brother to live sure a terrible life, and by proxy anything that caused him all the pain he currently feels. He doesn't want consolidation, he doen't want anyone to pity him, he only wants to make those people responsible for his & Itachi's suffering feel what he currently feels.

The main underlying theme in Naruto is all about this: Love vs. Power, as talked about with the Sage of Six Path's two sons. Naruto's been trying to figure out how to let someone take out their hatred, without starting a new conflict, like when he lets the Cloud Shinobi beat him up because Sasuke "killed/kidnapped" Bee. He's trying to figure out how to save Sasuke, and with Sasuke becoming closer to the main antagonist, if he can do that, he'll also be able to bring peace. I think how he'll accomplish this is to prove to Sasuke that, unlike Itachi & Tobi/Madara, he's not going to manipulate him.

It's kinda funny that the fandom hatred of his character mirrors the Shinobi World's opinion of him almost exactly. Naruto's the only one who really understands him, as has any chance of saving him in both ways.

tl;dr

In short, yes he's flawed, but he's flawed for all the right reasons and when you understand them, it's a lot easier to empathize with his character. Also, because avenging & revenge are really central themes are key to a lot of Japanese stories, I think that's why their audience understands & therefore likes him more than the Western audience does.


X

 

[Obsidian Fire]

One of the things I like the most about Naruto is how Kishimoto gives everyone a reason for why they do things. While we don't necessarily agree with the character's reasoning, it makes sense to them.

On a more recent note, did you notice how Mifune talked about his katana? He talked about it like it was a person with a history, feelings, experience etc. It is a striking contrast to the way Zabuza talks about himself and all shinobi back in the Wave Arc. There, he refers to himself as a tool. You have to wonder how that swich in thinking happened.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Good news! I am done with searching out people's birth years. Now all I have to do is figure out when stuff happened in relation to them. It's weird seeing people's birth years all in relation to each other because you start seeing things. The weirdest one was finding out that Fugaku (Sasuke's father) is only 5 years *younger* then Tsunade, Jiraiya and Orochimaru. Another one would be that Sasori and Killer Bee are the same age.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Good news! I am done with searching out people's birth years. Now all I have to do is figure out when stuff happened in relation to them. It's weird seeing people's birth years all in relation to each other because you start seeing things. The weirdest one was finding out that Fugaku (Sasuke's father) is only 5 years *younger* then Tsunade, Jiraiya and Orochimaru. Another one would be that Sasori and Killer Bee are the same age.

Woah...

That's unbelievably interesting. It gives a totally different idea than if you just assume their ages (like most of us do). How old was Sasuke's mother, and Kushina/Minato compared to him? Bee & Sasori will be one that sticks in my head though.

I can't wait to see this. Could you drop a timeline of just the birthdays while you figure the rest out?


X

 

[Roger]

Woah...

That's unbelievably interesting. It gives a totally different idea than if you just assume their ages (like most of us do). How old was Sasuke's mother, and Kushina/Minato compared to him? Bee & Sasori will be one that sticks in my head though.

I can't wait to see this. Could you drop a timeline of just the birthdays while you figure the rest out?


X

Fugaku was with some distance the oldest parent that we know off though.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Here's what I have so far. Stuff is missing because I still haven't finished compiling all the events yet. Everyone's birth years (that I can find) are done though. Also, I'm playing around with formatting so if anyone has any tips, I'd appreciate them.

Notes on the time-line:

The "0-year" is Naruto's birth year which is the year the Kyuubi attacked Konoha.

The only dates that are definite are people's birth years, hence why there is so many of them. The dates after people's births are their birth-dates. If a year is in parenthesis, it is a derived date. Question marks are unknown dates.

The Time-Line
__________________________________________________________________

? – Time of the Sage of the Six Paths

• invents ninjutsts
• acquires the five treasures
• seals the Juubi within himself becoming the first jinchuuriki
• (note: these three points did not necessarily happen in this order.)
• divides Juubi into the nine bijuu and seals the Juubi's body into the moon
• divides the Mokuton and Sharingan between the ancestor of the Senju clan and Uchiha clan respectivly
• the rivalry between the Senju and Uchiha clan begins
• (note: all this information comes from Uchiha Madara, so there is a good chance he isn't telling the complete truth)

? – The Waring Clans Era

• Senju/Uchiha rivalry continues
• Uchiha Madara gains the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan
• Senju Hashirama and Uchiha Madara rise to power
• tired of constant war, the Senju and Uchiha sign a treaty with the land of fire creating Konoha
• other countries soon follow
• (note: all this information comes from Uchiha Madara, so there is a good chance he isn't telling the complete truth)

? – The Hidden Village Era

• Hashirama becomes Shodai Hokage

• Madara holds a grudge against Hashirama for being picked to be the Shodai instead of him

• fed up with his anti-Konoha feelings, the Uchiha clan throws Madara out of Konoha
• in revenge against Konoha, Madara fights with Hashirama at the Valley of the End
• Hashirama splits the bijuu between the hidden villages
  • Madara uses the Kyuubi against Hashirama
  • Hashirama's wife, Uzumaki Mito seals the Kyuubi within herself to become it's first Jinchuuriki
  • Madara supposedly dies

• Hashirama splits the bijuu between the hidden villages

76 – Kakuzu born (8/15)

(76>) – Kakuzu is ordered by the Takigakure to kill Hashirama and fails

60 – Shimura Danzou born (1/6)

58 – Chiyo born (10/15)

56 – Sarutobi Hiruzen born (2/8)
– Mitokado Homura born (5/8
– Utatane Koharu born (9/1)

38 – Tsunade born (8/2)
– Orochimaru born (10/27)
– Jiraiya born (11/11)

(38>-?) – The First Secret War

• Konoha and Kumo are on opposite sides
• Hashirama dies and his brother, Senju Tobirama become Nidaime Hokage
• Tobirama forms the Uchiha Military Police
• Tobirama dies and Sarotobi Hiruzen becomes Sandaime Hokage

– ANBU places a guard on the Uchiha district

33 – Uchiha Fugaku born (8/16)

29 – Hyuuga Hiashi born (1/8)
Hyuuga Hizashi born (1/8)

28 – Uchiha Mikoto born (6/1)

27 – Aburame Shibi born (9/7)

26 – Yamanaka Inoichi born (1/24)
– Akimichi Chouza born (4/22)
– Nara Shikaku born (7/15)

24 – Inuzuka Tsume born (8/12)

20 – Sasori born (11/8)
– Killer Bee born (?)

(20>-?) – The Second Secret War

• Konoha is fighting against Kumo, Iwa, and Ame
• The Sannin become (in)famous after they fail to defeat Hanzou
• Jiraiya trains Nagato, Yahiko and Konan and writes the Legend of the Gutsy Ninja
• Hatake Sakumo kills Sasori's parents
• Nawaki and Dan die
• Tsunade gains her fear of blood

– Namikaze Minato meets Uzumaki Kushina

19 – Namiashi Raidou born (8/28)

18 – Baki born (7/4)

17 – Hoshigaki Kisame born (3/18)
– Shiranui Genma born (7/17)

16 – Shizune born (11/18)

15 – Morino Ibiki born (3/20)
– Sarutobi Asuma born (10/18)
– uuhi Kurenai born (6/11)

14 – Might Guy born (1/1)
– Nii Yugito born (7/24)
– Momochi Zabuza born (8/15)
– Hatake Kakashi born (9/15)

12 – Hagane Kotetsu born (7/21)
– Mitarashi Anko born (10/24)
– Kamizuki Izumo born (11/25)

11 – Umino Iruka born (5/26)
– Gekkou Hayate born (11/2)

10 – Yamato (Tenzo) born (10/10)
– Uzuki Yuugao born (11/3)

7 – Yakushi Kabuto born (2/29)
– Hidan born (4/2)

(7) – Hatake Sakumo fails one of his missions

6 – Inuzuka Hana born (4/13)

5 – Uchiha Itachi born (6/9)

4 – Deidara born (5/5)

(4) – Zabuza massacres the majority of people at his graduation exam bringing an end to Kiri's kill or be killed graduation exam

3 – Haku born (1/9)
– Kimimaro born (6/15)
– Temari born (8/23)
– Juugo born (10/1)

2 – Kankurou born (5/15)
– Sai born (11/25)

(?->2) – The Third Secret War

• Konoha is fighting against Iwa
• Namikaze Minato becomes (in)famous
• Hatake Kakashi gains his sharingan
• Danzou supports Hanzo in Ame
• Yahiko dies and Nagato becomes Pain

1 – Houzuki Suigetsu born (2/18)
– Tenten born (3/9)
– Karin born (6/20)
– Hyuuga Neji born (7/3)
– Rock Lee born (11/27)

0 – Aburame Shino born (1/23)
– Haruno Sakura born (3/21)
– Akimichi Chouji born (5/1)
– Inuzuka Kiba born (7/7)
– Uchiha Sasuke born (7/23)
– Nara Shikamaru born (9/22)
– Yakamana Ino born (9/23)
– Uzumaki Naruto born (10/10)
– Hyuuga Hinata born (12/27)

(0) – Kyuubi attacks Konoha

4 – Udon born (4/3)
– Moegi born (7/8)
– Sarutobi Konohamaru born (12/30)

5 – Hyuuga Hanabi born (3/27)

(5) – Uchiha massacre

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Awesome!! The formatting's really nice to.

Also, the reason 531 had such an off translation was Hisshouburaiken is still in Japan so he didn't translate that chapter, someone else did, so SenninSage has provided a MUCH better translation.


X

 

[Roger]

• divides the Mokuton and Sharingan between the ancestor of the Senju clan and Uchiha clan respectivly

Mokuton was a unique kekkai genkai that Hashirama alone had of the Senju clan. There's been no indication that Rikudo Sennin had it, let alone his elder son.

Anyway, Neji getting branded, Kumo and Konoha signing a peace treaty, Kumo's ambassador trying to kidnap Hinata and Hiashi killing him in the attempt happened on Hinata's third birthday, the whole Hizashi getting surrendered to Kumo as a double for Hiashi afterwards, so there's a definite date you can use.

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Mokuton was a unique kekkai genkai that Hashirama alone had of the Senju clan. There's been no indication that Rikudo Sennin had it, let alone his elder son.

I'll have to double check this. I remember seeing that when it is revealed that Danzou can do Izanagi, Madara mentions that the Rikudo Sennin could do Izanagi as well and that in order to be able to do Izanagi, you have to have both the Sharingan and Mokuton. I haven't gone through the manga with a fine-toothed comb yet, so this might change.

Anyway, Neji getting branded, Kumo and Konoha signing a peace treaty, Kumo's ambassador trying to kidnap Hinata and Hiashi killing him in the attempt happened on Hinata's third birthday, the whole Hizashi getting surrendered to Kumo as a double for Hiashi afterwards, so there's a definite date you can use.

Thanks! I'm going through the events from oldest dates to younger ones so I havn't gotten to that part yet.


EDIT:
Does anyone have any ideas, thoughts etc. on when the Kiri Bloodline War took place? The more I look at the situation in light of people's birth years and what skills they have and who the Godime Mizukage is, the less I'm sure of the situation. In fact, I'm starting to wonder which side actually won in the end.

 

[Roger]

I'll have to double check this. I remember seeing that when it is revealed that Danzou can do Izanagi, Madara mentions that the Rikudo Sennin could do Izanagi as well and that in order to be able to do Izanagi, you have to have both the Sharingan and Mokuton.

http://www.mangareader.net/93-57473-11/naruto/chapter-510.html
Madara talks of the Senju power, but he never mentions Mokuto. He talks about combining physical power and spiritual power
http://www.mangareader.net/93-31099-12/naruto/chapter-462.html
But nothing indicates that this was Mokuton, that was Hashirama's ability alone.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Ok, so before reading this chapter I HIGHLY recommend re-reading an edited version of 531. I've uploaded a .zip of pages 5-19 from chapter 531 into this post (Mifune & Hanzou's fight). They're all edited in paint, because I didn't have anything fancy to do it with, so it's not the prettiest thing ever. It's mostly using the re-translation I linked earlier, and a few edits I added. (Check it at the bottom of my post).



I like that we learn why Hanzo is so feared. I suspect that his incredibly toxic body is also why his eyes are blacked out. Until he started working only to keep himself alive, he was a hell of a Shinobi. He was someone who respected other people's power, and wanted those people to live on in memory, remembered as the legends they were. It gives a really good idea of what the battle with the Sannin would have been like.

The whole theme of giving oneself up for the faith and what you believe in is a HUGELY important theme in Naruto, and a big reason why I wanted to be sure that everyone read a proper translation. Being able to tell one's faith by battling them is something that will apply very strongly when Naruto confronts Sasuke.

The fact that Hanzou's faith was left in Mifune, shows why it was so fully restored once he figures this out. Yet again, Naruto manages to take a chapter and make a "bad" character someone we really care about. Parts of this reminded me of how I felt when we learned about Kisame's past. However, what REALLY shows how absolutely badass Hanzou is, is the fact that Even when Kabuto tries to erase him and take control over him, Hanzou refuses to move. There's all sorts of legendary shinobi, but Hanzou's the only one who's been able to completely refuse control from the Impure World Resurrection, EVEN after his personality is destroyed, and that's fucking incredible, and a testament to how Faith will overcome Power (again, a HUGE central theme to Naruto).


Then it comes back to Ino/Shika/Cho, and Chouji's difficulties with hurting anyone he cares for. Next chapter will certainly be interesting.


X

 

[Obsidian Fire]

Wow. Hanzou goes from a shallow character to a deep one in about 10 pages. That is really good writing. I wonder what changed him from the person we see in the 2nd Secret War to what he was like when he died. At least Nagato loosing to him originally makes a lot more sense. Also, Hanzou being able to fight against Kabuto's influence is huge as nobody we've seen resurrected by Edo Tensai has been able to do that.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I always felt there was more to Hanzou than what we've seen. Since he let the Sanin live, and apparently was a legendary warrior who was respected across the ninja world.

The fact he betrayed the Ame orphans and shit kinda pointed to some sort of dark side, or corruption that seemed oddly off for a legendary ninja such as him. And now we kinda see why.

Hanzou being so badass that he resisted Kabuto's bullshit mind control was truly epic. Fuck his four eyed ass, lol.

Sasori was badass enough to resist it too, fyi.

 

[X-SOLDIER]

Sasori was badass enough to resist it too, fyi.

But Hanzou did it even after Kabuto erased his personality.



X

 

[Alex Strife]

Hanzou is quite a lot more badass than I had thought. So far, even though he had been portrayed as a really powerful character, we hadn't seen enough information about him to make him look REALLY powerful. Now everything's changed. This guy deserves a lot of respecte, and I really quite like him now.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

I always assumed sarutobi and danzou would have been the same age for some reason.
I think it's mainly due to the fact sarutobi looks alot older lol.


The latest manga was awesome, I always wished they put more of hanzou in the anime itself even a filler arc showing the fights between Hanzou and Jiraiya, Tsunade and Orichimaru. Then again you only see like 10seconds fight time where he labels them as the sannin.

As for the Asuma fight, did anyone else think that it would have been Ino who was the weak link?

 

[X-SOLDIER]

The latest manga was awesome, I always wished they put more of hanzou in the anime itself even a filler arc showing the fights between Hanzou and Jiraiya, Tsunade and Orichimaru. Then again you only see like 10seconds fight time where he labels them as the sannin.

As for the Asuma fight, did anyone else think that it would have been Ino who was the weak link?

Seriously. Now that he's been fleshed out a little bit more by the manga, I hope that they do a flashback episode of him at some point. Especially of the battle with the (pre) Sannin. Speaking of which, I've been off of the anime for lack of a non-work computer for a while, and I saw the end of tha Pain Arc, so I was wondering when did they get back onto the main storyline? I hear they're doing the Kage Arc now, and I'd really like to get into it again.

I'd figured it'd be Chouji. Shikamaru can remove himself from a situation and act strategically, and Ino's just tough, but Chouji's always been super kind hearted. (Although if I were Asuma, I'd just say the word "fat" and Chouji'd steamroll him).


X