Naruto Anime/Manga (Manga Spoilers Not Tagged) [WSJ]

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
Kabuto is another example of why I love most of Naruto's villians - shining shades of grey. Aside from Kakuzu & Hidan being terrible terrible people, most of the villians have shown what made them into such monsters, and why the Shinobi world is such a totally devastating place on what could be otherwise decent human beings.
And as bad as the system is now, imagine how it must have been back in the Waring Clans Era. It was a "content state of warfare". At least now they only have wars every couple decades. The irony of the shinobi system is that while it definitely isn't perfect, it's a lot better then what it was, but most people don't seem to know/remember how bad it used to be. Or rather, the person who does remember how bad it used to be is trying to make it worse then it already is.
I'm still REALLY curious if they'll get into what Kabuto was thinking during the moment that Orochimaru said "If you want to betray me, all you have to do is kill him" and later Kabuto was standing over Sasuke in the hospital with a kunai held at his throat, and decided not to kill him - escaping as Kakashi broke in.
I still wonder about this. The craziest part about that scene is that no one else but Kabuto knows it happened, so it isn't like he was faking it for anybody.
It's also interesting that Itachi starts to get into the idea that you can't become the single sole powerful being, and that you need to rely on others. This is as much as message to Sasuke as it is to Kabuto's reliance on manipulating everything himself. I figure that this will start to play in to Sasuke & the other Taka members coming back into the picture, and Sasuke figuring out who he really is. Seriously, Page 7 is just dripping with foreshadowing.
I really like how Naruto has managed to impact Itachi even and through him, Sasuke. (Finally!)
He was already a terrorist for fun by then. Nobody hurt him, demilitirised his village, disadvantaged or killed his family, anything like that. As far as we know, Deidara woke up one day and thought "screw you, Stone Village, I'm gonna be evil now." He's alone in that. It's very odd.
I don't know. I think one of the reasons why Akatsuki are such good villains is because its fairly obvious that they had a choice to become what they now are regardless of their circumstances. Actually, I think this is true for nearly every character in Naruto.

I'm more with X-SOLDIER as far as Deidara goes. If you look at his age, he's only 2 years younger then Itachi. My head canon for him is that Iwa was trying to have a kid with his abilities ever since the 3rd Secret War broke out and he was born to late to contribute. So he got wartime training, but couldn't use it. And if you go by the Databooks, the 3rd one says that it wasn't that he just left the village to go be a terrorist; he left the village because he stole a Kinjitsu that had to do with his bloodline.

To be honest, the sob stories of Akatsuki and Kabuto aren't "I had no choice" sob stories, they're more "there was an easy (and wrong) choice and a hard (and right) choice" sob stories. And that's not mentioning Gaara's...
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
And as bad as the system is now, imagine how it must have been back in the Waring Clans Era. It was a "content state of warfare". At least now they only have wars every couple decades. The irony of the shinobi system is that while it definitely isn't perfect, it's a lot better then what it was, but most people don't seem to know/remember how bad it used to be. Or rather, the person who does remember how bad it used to be is trying to make it worse then it already is.

I think a lot of this comes from the fact that some of the elder folks believe that when things look like they were getting better, they would just plunge into another level of despair. Also, with Madara - I don't think that he really views the Hidden Villages as an improvement over the days of the nomadic, warring clans.

I still wonder about this. The craziest part about that scene is that no one else but Kabuto knows it happened, so it isn't like he was faking it for anybody.

I know!!!! That's why it still stands as one of the most significantly curious moments EVER in Naruto for me, because there's definately something going on there, but we still have no idea what that was.

I really like how Naruto has managed to impact Itachi even and through him, Sasuke. (Finally!)

Ditto!

I don't know. I think one of the reasons why Akatsuki are such good villains is because its fairly obvious that they had a choice to become what they now are regardless of their circumstances. Actually, I think this is true for nearly every character in Naruto.

I'm more with X-SOLDIER as far as Deidara goes. If you look at his age, he's only 2 years younger then Itachi. My head canon for him is that Iwa was trying to have a kid with his abilities ever since the 3rd Secret War broke out and he was born to late to contribute. So he got wartime training, but couldn't use it. And if you go by the Databooks, the 3rd one says that it wasn't that he just left the village to go be a terrorist; he left the village because he stole a Kinjitsu that had to do with his bloodline.

To be honest, the sob stories of Akatsuki and Kabuto aren't "I had no choice" sob stories, they're more "there was an easy (and wrong) choice and a hard (and right) choice" sob stories. And that's not mentioning Gaara's...

Deidara's age plays a lot into it. Kakuzu is a man, who failed a mission, but survived and was reviled for his failure. We've seen this type of treatment before. White Fang had a similar stigma against him, but the fact that it drives him to take his own life is what makes him empathetic. Kakuzu just gets driven by anger, and murders his elders, steals their kinjutsu, but from that point on, he just keeps being a killer and proceeds to spend whole generations (since he's old enough to have encountered the first Hokage) just being a bitter, miserable murderer. While it may be him attempting to make up for not being strong enough to kill Hashirama, it's hard for me to feel sympathy for him in the same way because it's so selfish and myopic for someone who's lived for so long.

Deidara's much younger, and just his whole attitude about art and his hatred for those who don't understand his artistic point of view makes him a different kind of outcast. While it's not to the level of Gaara, his outcast nature is more specific to an intrinsic part of his nature, like Gaara, rather than the result of a failure, like Kakuzu or White Fang. Because of this, he's more socially against people who don't understand the intrinsic nature of his expressions and attempts to show off in violent ways. While Deidara isn't nearly the best example of a character to be sympathetic towards, I think he's still miles away from Kakuzu & Hidan who were easily the most outright villianous/murderous for the sake of being that way.


X :neo:
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Deidara's age plays a lot into it. Kakuzu is a man, who failed a mission, but survived and was reviled for his failure. We've seen this type of treatment before. White Fang had a similar stigma against him, but the fact that it drives him to take his own life is what makes him empathetic. Kakuzu just gets driven by anger, and murders his elders, steals their kinjutsu, but from that point on, he just keeps being a killer and proceeds to spend whole generations (since he's old enough to have encountered the first Hokage) just being a bitter, miserable murderer. While it may be him attempting to make up for not being strong enough to kill Hashirama, it's hard for me to feel sympathy for him in the same way because it's so selfish and myopic for someone who's lived for so long.

I'm not saying he deserves sympathy. But we do at least know Kakuzu was just another shinobi, loyal to his village that got betrayed and is in this business cause he's bitter and doesn't trust anything other then the thing he latches onto (money). He's no different from Madara, Tobi, Nagato, Konan and the rest of the miserable Akatsukis.

Deidara's much younger, and just his whole attitude about art and his hatred for those who don't understand his artistic point of view makes him a different kind of outcast. While it's not to the level of Gaara, his outcast nature is more specific to an intrinsic part of his nature, like Gaara, rather than the result of a failure, like Kakuzu or White Fang. Because of this, he's more socially against people who don't understand the intrinsic nature of his expressions and attempts to show off in violent ways. While Deidara isn't nearly the best example of a character to be sympathetic towards, I think he's still miles away from Kakuzu & Hidan who were easily the most outright villianous/murderous for the sake of being that way.

X :neo:
Deidara is young, but going on a rampant killing spree because he people didn't appreciate his art is like Kakashi becoming Konoha enemy because they don't like Jiraiya's pornbooks as much he feels they should. It's not even motive, it's just insanity.

And the thing is he WAS appreciated.

Top block of text: Deidara – the artist who uses his [hands] to make clay models that can explode. To him, true beauty is the instance of an explosion; it is the [pinnacle of art] to strive for. Hailing from the Hidden Rock Village (Iwagakure), Deidara was often highly praised and greatly admired as a clay artist. Even so, Deidara had a great desire to take his art to even greater heights. Hence, he worked hard to hone his art by practicing and producing more artworks.

Middle block of text: Before long, Deidara had an immense thirst to learn a form of art which was prohibited in his village. It is a form of [Art that requires the kneading of chakra into clay].He broke the law and attained the means of creating that form of art. He then made an explosion with his “exploding clay”. At last, he can finally create the kind of [Art] that he had longed for. (Further explanation for clarity: Exploding clay is formed by infusing Chakra and clay together. In order to do that, Deidara needed to perform a forbidden jutsu on himself to get those additional mouths, which can infuse chakra together with clay. The jutsu probably gives him the ability to mix Chakra and clay together in his own mouth (the one on his face) too. So yeah, Deidara performed the forbidden jutsu on himself, and then attained the ability to create exploding clay, which made it possible for him to create explosions through his clay creations.)
Maybe if he was outcast as you say, he might have been better off, be less spoiled by success and he might not have decided he needs to carve open his goddang chest and hands and turn himself into a walking industrialsized plastic explosive factory to satisfy his "artistic needs".

It's like: Maybe if Hashirama wasn't made Hokage over him Madara wouldn't be this way, maybe if Sasori's parents didn't die, Sasori wouldn't be this way, maybe if Yahiko didn't die Konan and Nagato wouldn't be this way, maybe if the Waterfall villages elders forgave his failure Kakuzu wouldn't be this way, if Stone/ Hot Springs Village let Deidara/Hidan blow shit up/murder as much they wanted, they'd well, they'd be exactly the same.
 
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X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Am I still the only person who mangareader doesn't work for?

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c583/

Excellent chapter, although I'm curious to see if they're past his Sasori affiliation or not. Also- ties to Root might help to explain his torn attitude on betraying Konoha early on, and certainly explain how he managed to take out the ANBU guards back then.


X :neo:
 

Roger

He/him
AKA
Minato
Yeah I kinda wish it was Sasori and orochimaru in akatsuki cloaks that showed up at the end.
 

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
Am I still the only person who mangareader doesn't work for?
No you're not, it hasn't worked for the last couple weeks for me. However, its only the licensed manga that doesn't seem to work. It's up on Mangastream though (don't know how long for)!

More Orochimaru backstory! Yey! And as if we didn't hate Danzou enough... *sigh* Orochimaru is evil... can't wait for next week.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
In light of this week's lack of a chapter, I bring you this image of the Volume 60 Cover.


Naruto-Manga-Volume-60.jpg



Oh my god.

It's so adorable.



X :neo:
 

Alex Strife

Ex-SOLDIER
Very interesting, although I realise I'm so anxious that I need to see how the Sasuke+Itachi vs Kabuto battle ends!

This chapter was nice in the sense that it made me even feel for Kabuto, for a short while, a little bit, but by the end of the chapter, these feelings were gone again.

And I believe we'll never truly know where he comes from. It'll be left a mystery, I think.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
I'm actually quite pleased with how things turned out this chapter. It actually gives a lot of really interesting depth into Orochimaru's reasoning for creating Otogakure, and his underlying motivations to revealing the greater truth. I think this paints him in an even deeper shade of grey than he was before.

First, his focus on knowledge being a tool that's even more powerful than jutsu is quite an interesting point to bring up at this part in the series where extreme jutsu seem to be some of the most exceptionally important things. In addition to this, he dislikes the idea of Shinobi used as tools, and instead focuses on bringin out the ultimate version of the self, which finally explains why Kabuto followed him so loyally all this time.

After seeing how mentally distraught Kabuto is after all this time (slashing Orochimaru down brutally), I think that even though it didn't cover the moment where he almost killed Sasuke, it at least given an indication to his reasoning and what would be going though his mind at that point. Chapter was spectacular, and thanks for linking them!


X :neo:
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
God...Konoha ruined his life. Kabuto's life was ruined and shattered due to Danzo, Root, and everything else.

Kabuto really just had..a shitty life. He was a victim of circumstance and cruelty. And for no reason. They just...treated him like he was a tool and wanted to discard him. That's seriously shitty. If I were in his position, I'd probably do the same thing as him and join up with Orochimaru too. After what he told him, promised him and gave him, who wouldn't?

That's just so fucked up. It's sad. He wasn't always a monster. The shinobi world, and Leaf Village made him one.
 

Obsidian Fire

Ahk Morn!
AKA
The Engineer
^^Except in the Naruto world no one starts out as a monster; they choose to become one or not. Also, by this point, Kabuto is just as bad or worse then Danzou and everyone else who screwed him over. The way you go about fixing a problem is by not following in the footsteps of everyone else who caused the problem in the first place. At some point, Kabout slipped from being manipulated to being a manipulator.

What I find neat about this is how Danzou has been set up as an enemy from within, the un-obvious enemy. Then you have Madara who is the enemy from whithout, the obvious enemy. And then you have all the people they screwed over and most of them have chosen to perpetuate the problem instead of fixing it. Makes for a realistic world.
 

Makoeyes987

Listen closely, there is meaning in my words.
AKA
Smooth Criminal
^^Except in the Naruto world no one starts out as a monster; they choose to become one or not. Also, by this point, Kabuto is just as bad or worse then Danzou and everyone else who screwed him over. The way you go about fixing a problem is by not following in the footsteps of everyone else who caused the problem in the first place. At some point, Kabout slipped from being manipulated to being a manipulator.

What I find neat about this is how Danzou has been set up as an enemy from within, the un-obvious enemy. Then you have Madara who is the enemy from whithout, the obvious enemy. And then you have all the people they screwed over and most of them have chosen to perpetuate the problem instead of fixing it. Makes for a realistic world.

I'm not trying to remove the responsibility Kabuto has for his horrible actions. It's true, he is just as bad at this point.

But I'm also saying Konoha, particularly Danzo and his ROOT, also share a responsibility for this terror. They sowed the soil for growing some of the most horrible villains that Naruto is facing right now. That's just the fact of the situation.

The perfect storm of pain and misery was what made Kabuto who he is today. There was a point Kabuto could've chosen to not inflict the same pain and hardship he endured onto others, and he chose to. That's the truth. But like Naruto and Nagato have said, it's all a "chain of hatred." Kabuto is just one link. There's a whole link of hatred and pain that makes it all go round and round.
 

X-SOLDIER

Harbinger O Great Justice
AKA
X
Not even Kurama started out as a monster (physical form notwithstanding). Everyone is a product of their environments and circumstances, and are largely unaware of the far reaching effects of their actions on other people. Naruto was once a hated Jinchuriki who was completely changed by Iruka's kindness. Because of that, he's exceptionally sensitive to other people's emotions because he knows how seeminly small things can drastically affect people and their ambitions, and has a hard time hating his enemies, and why he doesn't want to kill Sasuke.

The key difference is that other people were more concerned with their own issues or protecting things/people/nations within the existing Shinobi System, whereas Naruto has always believed that his own path is the right way, and that following that would be better than how everything else is. Everyone in Naruto, aside from Naruto himself, and some of the people he strongly affects are very much all products of the Shinobi System even the "good guys."



X :neo:
 

Super Mario

IT'S A ME!
AKA
Jesse McCree. I feel like a New Man
I kinda feel bad for kabuto now considering his own mom doesn't recognize him due to Root's uncanny capability of photoshopping back then. Most of the villains except Hidan, Zetsu and possibly Kakuzu (I heard he lost faith in his own village long after he failed to take out Harashima) are victims of circumstances and the shinobi world's unrelenting cruelty. But I personally pin the blame on ROOT for sowing a fuck ton more villains for Naruto right now compared to rogues like Akatsuki and Orochimaru himself.


Judging by the flashback, Kurama wasn't really meant to be a being of destruction or even bad at all. He just lost his guide which was the sage and grew up bitter and malevolent enough to be sealed up. I am intrigued to find out how will he repent for the crimes he committed upon leaf under Tobi's control.

ed: he assembled with naruto. Now he's the nine tailed demon avenger :B
 

Theozilla

Kaiju Member
Thanks for the link, I been looking for a new manga site for while now since Manga Reader's images stopped working for me.

Very interesting chapter. Good insight into Kabuto's villainy.
 
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