Naruto Anime/Manga (Manga Spoilers Not Tagged) [WSJ]

[Kikyou]

I saw it as a moment of hesitation, he couldn't bring himself to go through the resolve of killing his best friend. I could be wrong; it has been a while since I read/watched that battle.

Who knows what would've happened, had Orochimaru not told Sasuke to cease fighting. If I recall correctly, Orochimaru let Team 7 live so they could thin out Akatsuki's numbers. Maybe he would have gone through with it, maybe not. He cares about them. I won't deny that, but he also cared about Itachi.

Interesting analyzation btw, I didn't really take note of it when I was watching his fights. Anyway, if we're going by what you are saying, what do you think caused such a character change from the Killerbee Arc and this Arc? Both arcs take place after Itachi's true character is examined. And I don't think Susanoo is really that much of a personality changer. Then again, its effects aren't really delved.

 

[Makoeyes987]

I saw it as a moment of hesitation, he couldn't bring himself to go through the resolve of killing his best friend. I could be wrong; it has been a while since I read/watched that battle.

Even if its hesitation, that shows Sasuke as turning his back away from the dark and murderous impulse he had before, where he eagerly relished the thought of killing Naruto and gaining the power of the mangekyou sharingan. He not only hesitates, he rejects the idea of doing things Itachi's way and resolves to become strong in his own way.

Who knows what would've happened, had Orochimaru not told Sasuke to cease fighting. If I recall correctly, Orochimaru let Team 7 live so they could thin out Akatsuki's numbers. Maybe he would have gone through with it, maybe not. He cares about them. I won't deny that, but he also cared about Itachi.

Given the fact he betrayed Orochimaru and made it clearly he held nothing he believed in, in high regard, I doubt Sasuke would've killed them at all. And why would Sasuke hesitate to kill perfect strangers, and soldiers who have orders from Orochimaru to attack Sasuke...but then be eager and willing to kill the people he knows? That makes no sense. And he only cared for Itachi before the massacre, and then now, now that he knows the truth about the Uchiha.

Interesting analyzation btw, I didn't really take note of it when I was watching his fights. Anyway, if we're going by what you are saying, what do you think caused such a character change from the Killerbee Arc and this Arc? Both arcs take place after Itachi's true character is examined. And I don't think Susanoo is really that much of a personality changer. Then again, its effects aren't really delved.

Well personally, I believe it's due to the fact that Sasuke's hatred has grown with his power, and what he felt for his current team in that moment of desperation fighting the Eight Tailed Killer Bee, was just a moment of weakness due to the fact he felt they were all about to die. Sasuke's heart felt desperation and fear, seeing his comrades near death and for a brief moment, he reverted back to the Sasuke of Team 7, and wanted to protect them in any way, thus he awakened Amaterasu.

However, now that he has realized he has such immense power from his Mangekyou, he has now focused on utilizing that power for his revenge. He's now focused completely on it. Before, he was unsure, but now that he sees he has this power and can control it, there's only one path for him now. Being an avenger.

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

I hope Sasuke gets his butt kicked. Big time.

And that they either kill him or he goes back to Konoha already.

 

[Max Payne]

Sasuke should die already. I'm sick of his convenient escapes from death and destruction.

I don't want to see Naruto fight that cunt again.

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

I'm tired of Sasuke, and of how Kishimoto's always gotta try to make the guy seem so badass/sexy/ohmygawdSTRONGESTDOODVAR.

I wanna see an end to this whole Sasuke deal.

And I hope Juugo and Suigetsu don't die or anything. I don't mind if Karin bites it, though. She's just another one of Kishimoto's boring, uninspired female characters.

 

[Kikyou]

And as for this fight, I'm not really expecting much at all. Madara is prolly going to intervene or something battle halting like that.

^

I'm not surprised. And even though a lot of people want him dead, he's the main character's best friend/rival, so it's a given that they're going to have a final showdown at some point before we can call the death card. Seriously, Kishi needs to take a damn break, give some of his girls a last name damnit, and come up with a female character archetype that fits in A SHINOBI WORLD.

Okay, so it makes more sense if we're going with what you're saying. But give me some slack man, its hard transitioning from preconceived notions of the character when he had his dick moments with Orochimaru, to a less dick Sasuke, and then looking at an uber dick Sasuke right now. Without much of an understanding of what could be the switch. I'm not sure about the power thing adding to the hate. I think being so close to his hatred target is the bigger catalyst. Plus, he felt he had the power/capability of killing Danzou. Killerbee isn't a target of his hatred, but he's in the way of revenge.

And slow reply, I know. I was re-reading the chapters you were referring to.

 

[Splintered]

It's also the fact that Sasuke has had a winning streak for so long. I've seen people who actually don't care one way or another about Sasuke but just want to see him fail once. It's like hating that sports team that never seems to loose.

Also

Hrrrrrnnnnn

 

[Kikyou]

Except Sasuke doesn't appear to be a team player, anymore. At all.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Holy fucking shit Splintered, that rap was awesome. That's just win. XDD

Seriously, Kishi needs to take a damn break, give some of his girls a last name damnit, and come up with a female character archetype that fits in A SHINOBI WORLD.

What do you mean by that? There are plenty of female characters who fit in the shinobi world. Anko...Temari...Tsunade...Sakura...The Mizukage? I'm not sure what you mean.

Without much of an understanding of what could be the switch. I'm not sure about the power thing adding to the hate. I think being so close to his hatred target is the bigger catalyst. Plus, he felt he had the power/capability of killing Danzou. Killerbee isn't a target of his hatred, but he's in the way of revenge.

It's called despair and resignation. Sasuke's in so much pain right now that his hatred has boiled over. Think about it.

Sasuke believed in a "just world" where his village was in the right, Itachi was the villain, and his clan were innocent victims of an evil rogue ninja's ambition. His brother's. This "just world" belief was what allowed him to fully understand and grasp the world as a child. He finally was able to reap the fruit of all his hard work, sacrifice, and training with the death of Itachi...and what happens?

He finds out he was wrong about everything. His brother really was good and did love him. The village he trusted and saw as good, was the true evil that drove Itachi to do what he did. Itachi was torn between the village and his family. The village who he saw as innocent victims were not innocent at all. Everything he thought he knew, was completely wrong. The entire frame of reference he used to build his identity and use to create his path in life was wrong. So now he's left even more hollow, alone, and unhappy than he was before.

Sasuke literally has only his hatred and feelings of revenge now. It's the only thing that is "true" to him. If there's one thing he knows that is "right" it's that he's going to make everyone who stands in his way and has hurt him, know his pain and suffering. He's going to make those who wronged him, feel his pain. It's all he knows now. He's not learned anything else.

 

[Kikyou]

The ones you listed are excused. Seeing Ino cry over Sasuke was rather irritating. I suppose I'm just tired of that generic fangirly trait a lot of female shinobi share whenever Sasuke comes in the picture. And how compared to many of the other male characters, they are not as developed in personality or motive. Yeah, you can be born into the profession you're in and roll with it. But compared to the number of those who have a reason why they need to continue the path of shinobi, like getting stronger, being able to protect something, or getting revenge... I find that abundant with the males and scant in the females.

I have thought about it. But this revelation occurs before the encounter with Killerbee and before the Hokage Summit Arc, and the goal, his desire to destroy the people responsible for his Clan's tragedy, has always been the same in both arcs. So what about the callous treatment of his teammates? Can it really be simplified as a direct relation with power?

 

[Makoeyes987]

The ones you listed are excused. Seeing Ino cry over Sasuke was rather irritating. I suppose I'm just tired of that generic fangirly trait a lot of female shinobi share whenever Sasuke comes in the picture. And how compared to many of the other male characters, they are not as developed in personality or motive. Yeah, you can be born into the profession you're in and roll with it. But compared to the number of those who have a reason why they need to continue the path of shinobi, like getting stronger, being able to protect something, or getting revenge... I find that abundant with the males and scant in the females.

Hey, don't turn into a "real women never wear dresses" fan, now. Ino has every right to cry. She cares about Sasuke too. Chouji, Neji, Shikamaru, and Kiba, literally risked their lives to save Sasuke...a genin they didn't know very well, and only had some academy classes with. They weren't even in the same squad as him. But they still cared about him as a fellow leaf shinobi and member of the village. He was part of their class. They care. Ino feels the same way and given the bond they all share, it's not unnatural or wrong of her to cry.

It just really surprises me how the harshest critics of women are themselves. Naruto could use stronger female characters, but that doesn't mean there aren't any now. Too many times I've seen female characters bashed or called weak just by showing normal displays of emotion.

I have thought about it. But this revelation occurs before the encounter with Killerbee and before the Hokage Summit Arc, and the goal, his desire to destroy the people responsible for his Clan's tragedy, has always been the same in both arcs. So what about the callous treatment of his teammates? Can it really be simplified as a direct relation with power?

He's become possessed and overwhelmed by his rage, anger, sadness, despair, and lust for revenge. His target of his revenge and hatred is literally right there in the other room, and its overpowering all other thoughts and feelings in his mind. His entire goal is right there in front of him, and he's frothing at the mouth to get to it. It's causing him to be even more reckless, dangerous, and hateful than ever. It's the proximity and closeness to completion.

 

[Kikyou]

Hardly. I'm not saying she can't cry because she's a shinobi. I thought the moment between Naruto and Iruka in the first chapter, where he's acknowledged as a member of Konoha for the first time, was very touching.

But in Ino's case, its ridiculous. This isn't the first time she's cried, but its been the first time I've been irritated at her tears. It was acceptable when it came to the issue of Asuma, as there is an established long term relationship between mentor and student. He is someone who might even be something like a father-figure to the team. Now compare the scenes where she is mourning a mentor and sobbing over a childhood crush.

She is more pained over Sasuke than Asuma's death, as there are moans of pain in the latter scene. And that really boggles my mind.

I'm sure there have been people who were very serious about their first crushes, maybe even cried over it. It would have been excusable if she was in her genin years, but we are looking at a girl who three years older now. This isn't a serious first love. This is a crush, as it is never shown that her feelings were reciprocated. You'd think she'd find someone else to love and move on already. And this is even harder to buy, as we are never shown any significant interactions between them or the reasons why she likes Sasuke. Team 7 is a special because they were close teammates, to the point of family, and there were plenty of scenes where they bonded.

EDIT: And this isn't character bashing, this is Kishi-can't-really-write-women-criticism.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Hardly. I'm not saying she can't cry because she's a shinobi. I thought the moment between Naruto and Iruka in the first chapter, where he's acknowledged as a member of Konoha for the first time, was very touching.

But in Ino's case, its ridiculous. This isn't the first time she's cried, but its been the first time I've been irritated at her tears. It was acceptable when it came to the issue of Asuma, as there is an established long term relationship between mentor and student. He is someone who might even be something like a father-figure to the team. Now compare the scenes where she is mourning a mentor and sobbing over a childhood crush.

She is more pained over Sasuke than Asuma's death, as there are moans of pain in the latter scene. And that really boggles my mind.

I think you're splitting hairs here. Just because we see/hear a few moans and shit in a panel doesn't suddenly mean Ino cares more about Sasuke than her own sensei and loss as a member of team 10. You're taking the panels and situations out of context. In one situation, Ino is trying to stay strong and quiet so that she can hear the last words of wisdom her sensei wants to give her. How would she do that if she breaks down and sobs uncontrollably, letting all of those tears out? The other situation is her being surrounded by her friends and peers, being allowed the freedom and comfort to grieve, since she's among fellow friends who've given her the news. Her crying more in a setting of comfort and openness doesn't mean she loves Sasuke more. That makes no contextual or logical sense. And again, several genin who hardly knew Sasuke, a few of them even thinking he was kind of annoying, risked their lives, and nearly died trying to save them. Is that ridiculous? Or is it okay because they're men and they're fighting? Why is she not allowed to shed tears over the fate of a fellow shinobi she too would be willing to die for to protect?

I don't see why it's stupid or wrong for Ino to express concern or sadness over a fellow peer, when we've seen all of these kids risk their left nut and right leg to try to save one another. Why is that bad?

I'm sure there have been people who were very serious about their first crushes, maybe even cried over it. It would have been excusable if she was in her genin years, but we are looking at a girl who three years older now. This isn't a serious first love. This is a crush, as it is never shown that her feelings were reciprocated. You'd think she'd find someone else to love and move on already. And this is even harder to buy, as we are never shown any significant interactions between them or the reasons why she likes Sasuke. Team 7 is a special because they were close teammates, to the point of family, and there were plenty of scenes where they bonded.

So you don't think it's possible she could care for this person as a fellow leaf shinobi and person to the extent that him being killed would make her cry? When we've seen these people risk life and limb to try and save someone they hardly knew as well?

 

[Max Payne]

Knowing Killer Bee escaped from Akatsuki makes reading all of the Sasuke garbage worth it.

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

Can anyone here tell me about the word "kakkoi"?

Specifically, if it's possible for a guy to use it in reference to another guy without it being, I guess, gay?

lol pairing wars. I'm just asking because there's someone I'm talking to that keeps bringing up this Sasuke/Naruto proofz, and I couldn't say anything about this one. :/

 

[Max Payne]

It doesn't matter, Kishimoto's been pushing that relationship for a while now much to my chagrin.

 

[Roger]

It's also the fact that Sasuke has had a winning streak for so long. I've seen people who actually don't care one way or another about Sasuke but just want to see him fail once. It's like hating that sports team that never seems to loose.

Also

Hrrrrrnnnnn

I'm sorry, what? A winning streak? Sasuke hasn't won a battle in nearly two years now. Itachi, Killerbee, Raikage, Madara, Mizukage he's been shot down a hundred times over now. Screw it you people will never be satisfied.

 

[Max Payne]

Hahahaha, I gotta hand it to Naruto, mad respects for that.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Hahahaha, I gotta hand it to Naruto, mad respects for that.

Wait, what are you handing to Naruto? What are you happy about?

 

[Max Payne]

Not falling for Sakura's bullshit.

 

[Max Payne]

Also, I'm going to be really pissed if Killer Bee loses to that fag and his gay sword.

 

[Makoeyes987]

Oh....that shit.

See, I really am torn on this chapter. But I will say, that I really respect Naruto for not buying Sakura's confession bullshit.

I will say my thoughts on Naruto and Sakura ending up together have been turned on its head now, thanks to this bullshit. Sakura's stupidity in thinking this would work is not only facepalm worthy, but it's also insulting. Naruto's not just chasing after Sasuke for her sake, he's doing it for himself. Her thinking that it was just him doing it for her, is rather ridiculous.

Also, this whole lie/act brings into question who she's still pining for. I actually believed the girl matured past her pre-teen phase of liking the popular kid, but now, I'm not so sure.

TL;DR, I lost a whole lot of respect for the girl. And I used to think she grew up. Apparently, she didn't. Or at least, not as much as I believed.

Yamato's reaction, along with Rock Lee's summed up my expression while reading this shit, to a "T."

 

[Max Payne]

Rofl. Naruto once again proves he's the most mature on his team.

 

[Hinata Hyuga]

GAAAAAAWD, Sakura... She's a bleeping retard right now.

I knew she still liked Sasuke. It'd be weird for her to really just drop all of it without any resolution. Kishimoto portrayed her feelings as more than a crush, she seriously cares about Sasuke. I still think she'll end up really liking Naruto, but she needs to deal with Sasuke first.

Sakura needs to give Naruto more credit, the guy's hardly an idiot. Of course he isn't gonna fall for that crap.

 

[Emma]

I don't like how Sakura just starting caring for Naruto like that out of no where. It seems way to rushed and its really annoying how she calls him idiot and such but he's always saving everyone. >.>

(I also love Naruto. I read and watch ^^)